Opioid Epidemic
Amos_Umwhat
Posts: 8,899 ✭✭✭✭✭
For those who might have missed it, this discussion began with the Morphine thread under General Discussion.
A young woman I know, 27 years old, died of an overdose of who knows what, something she injected, last week. My guess is heroin laced with fentanyl. I am not related to her, but she was related to people I am related to. She was raised by a single mom, drug addict, 5 kids from 5 dads, and struggled between taking care of her siblings, who were younger, and falling into her mom's bad habits, probably because that's the life she knew.
She got into a fight with her husband, possibly over her use of drugs or her desire to return to them, I don't know for sure, called the cops and got her mom to back up her story that he was abusing her, got him jailed, went out with $250 and came home with $5 and a boyfriend. When the boyfriend woke up she was dead.
The husband is sort of a Forrest Gump type, he's devastated, left with two small kids.
So, this subject has been on my mind this week. Again. My first wife died of an overdose about a year after our divorce. I spent many years as a nurse, mostly ER and ICU, I've seen all aspects of this, up close and personal.
It is a complex problem.
I'd like to start by saying that I really appreciate @Sketch6995 's remarks concerning Suboxone. So far, he's dead on the money with everything I read in the Morpine thread. I'll give one example of someone I've known, then leave this for awhile because I've got stuff to do.
I know a patient who'd been addicted to morphine since he was a small child. At the time I met him he was in his 4th decade of life, and using 300 - 500mg of morphine daily. Yes, you read that right and I typed it right. His life was a wreck, lived off his parents, slept 18 hours daily, and was worthless for the other 6 hours. After 2 years of Suboxone he was down to 6 - 8 mg of suboxone weekly, yes weekly, skin and eyes clear, holding a full time job, and no arrests or court actions in that 2 year period.
That is nothing short of miraculous.
Your turn:
A young woman I know, 27 years old, died of an overdose of who knows what, something she injected, last week. My guess is heroin laced with fentanyl. I am not related to her, but she was related to people I am related to. She was raised by a single mom, drug addict, 5 kids from 5 dads, and struggled between taking care of her siblings, who were younger, and falling into her mom's bad habits, probably because that's the life she knew.
She got into a fight with her husband, possibly over her use of drugs or her desire to return to them, I don't know for sure, called the cops and got her mom to back up her story that he was abusing her, got him jailed, went out with $250 and came home with $5 and a boyfriend. When the boyfriend woke up she was dead.
The husband is sort of a Forrest Gump type, he's devastated, left with two small kids.
So, this subject has been on my mind this week. Again. My first wife died of an overdose about a year after our divorce. I spent many years as a nurse, mostly ER and ICU, I've seen all aspects of this, up close and personal.
It is a complex problem.
I'd like to start by saying that I really appreciate @Sketch6995 's remarks concerning Suboxone. So far, he's dead on the money with everything I read in the Morpine thread. I'll give one example of someone I've known, then leave this for awhile because I've got stuff to do.
I know a patient who'd been addicted to morphine since he was a small child. At the time I met him he was in his 4th decade of life, and using 300 - 500mg of morphine daily. Yes, you read that right and I typed it right. His life was a wreck, lived off his parents, slept 18 hours daily, and was worthless for the other 6 hours. After 2 years of Suboxone he was down to 6 - 8 mg of suboxone weekly, yes weekly, skin and eyes clear, holding a full time job, and no arrests or court actions in that 2 year period.
That is nothing short of miraculous.
Your turn:
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
3
Comments
Here in Colorado you can just walk in to the pharmacy and Purchase narcan.
And while it is great for reversing an overdose it doesn't do anything to help you stay clean.
I carry one around in my truck with me wherever I go, and it cost me 250 bucks for a single dose. I had an occasion to use it in a Family Dollar store a few months ago.
It is something of a miracle drug. When you see some overdosing girl all gorked out on the floor not breathing, And you spray that stuff in her nose, They wake up and start swearing to God and Sonny Jesus that they didn't take any heroin.
It can save lives and it does.
But in order to stay clean you need suboxone..... That's stuff prevents you from being able to get high on narcotics. Because it contains 2mg of narcan. People who really want to change their lives need this drug.
Not only does it prevent you from getting high, But it also prevents withdrawal symptoms.
Anyone who's ever gone through withdrawals knows how horrible it is.
Yet the DEA makes it so hard to get that most people just give up.
It's also dreadfully expensive. $15 for a strip, And most people are perscribed 2 A-day.
Rocky Mountain medicaid will only pay for it if you are in their program. They will cut off payments from other doctors and refuse to pay for the prescription unless you join their program.
It's kind of a no win scenario can you say Kobayashi maru?
What you can't forgive......you will become.
This thread is very important to me.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
This is the first time I have heard of suboxone, sounds promising.
Why is the stuff (both) so expensive? There is tons of it, so it would seem it is easy to produce. Is this another insulin price gouging type of profit making?
What you can't forgive......you will become.
Right from the beginning the drug companies misled physicians about the addictive potential of pain killers.
They gave the doctors a bunch of false information and cash incentives to use opiates for long term pain management.
But then they started touting how it was wonderful for a short term pain management as well.
Suboxone Has been around since 2003, But the doctor has to take special classes and get a special license to dispense it, From the DEA. Not only that but they're only allowed a handful of patients To begin with.
To get A prescription of you must fill out DEA forms at the doctor's office. Every month when you need a refill you have to come back to the doctor's office and fill out the same form.
Now the pharmacist has to go through special steps to dispense it. They will not fill it even one day early.
Next thing that happens is the drug companies partner with the insurance company and open a treatment center.
On its face it seems like a good idea.
But then the insurance company cuts off payments to the pharmacy. You're stuck paying cash they just deny payment out of the blue.
When you call them to find out why they try steering you towards their new treatment center. That is the only way they will cover your prescription. A months worth can easily be $700. And usually more.
So 1st they get you addicted to it, Then they try forcing you into their treatment center.
Something Stinks
What you can't forgive......you will become.
Sorry about the source but the facts are true.
http://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/399867-some-treatment-options-for-opioid-epidemic-risk-serious-unintended
What you can't forgive......you will become.
It's formulated to prevent Abuse
What you can't forgive......you will become.
Our wonderful Congress critters banded together to Stop them.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-drug-industry-congress/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d3af19a26fb8
Now this is one time I was in agreement with what the DEA were trying to do, unfortunately they were going about it in the wrong way.
In the end all that happened is people with cancer, painful and terminal illnesses were the ones that got screwed.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
Which brings up the other thing the governmental / big pharma guys don't want to talk about, the stuff is a pretty damn good pain reliever! With no overdose potential, and no addiction. Now, why don't they want you to know that?
Oh, and I almost forgot, It's illegal in most states to prescribe it for pain management!!!
.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
And today a single dose of that same drug is $250.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4062491/opioid-addiction-treatment-guidelines-suboxone/
That's a great story. It's just too bad you had to go to Mexico to get it but I'm glad it was cheaper.
The DEA has had a stranglehold on that drug since it was invented in 2003.
Almost like they don't want people to get better they would just rather see them die.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
When the opioids (hydro and oxycodone) are taken away, the addicted quickly find a source of opiates (natural derivatives, opium and morphine and heroin).
Anyone here remember who was bringing in the opiates when we owned Vietnam?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I have to use myself as an example here. For a long time I took hydrocodone or oxycodone every day. By long time, I mean years. The insurance company wouldn't approve my knee replacement, which was the only solution left when I was only 42 years old. Had to wait another 10 years for that, and my right shoulder had 3 labral tears and the rotator cuff was completely torn up and all the cartilage was worn from my humoral head, still is.
At my peak usage, just prior to the knee replacement, I was taking 6 or 8 10mg oxycodone's daily, just to be able to function normally. Once I started recovering, and the pain lessening, I just cut it down gradually. No problems whatsoever. After the rotator cuff surgery, which was nowhere near as painful as the knee, I cut down more and more until I got where I am today, which is every once in a while, maybe couple times a month or so, I take a hydrocodone. No problem.
The point being that if I based my opinion solely on my own experience, I'd think that this was all nonsense. BS, there's no such thing. But there is, and it is. I just got the right genetics. There are many intelligent, moral, upstanding people who aren't so lucky. Within a couple weeks of starting on an opioid they are truly on a bad road. In no time flat they are seeking more and more and more...until they die in their addiction. It breaks my heart to see it.
Currently there is some amazing research being done in this field, identifying genetic markers and patients who are more or less likely to be able to use these, and other, meds and treatments. Who knows where that might lead? Also, PTSD is a major factor in addiction predisposition, especially as related to childhood problems that many of the victims have suppressed to a point where they absolutely deny that they could possibly have PTSD. But they do. I don't know if it's still available online, but if you're interested in that try looking up a study called "ACES too high". Very interesting stuff.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Laws are for honest people. And you can bet the only ones that will suffer any consequences at all, from any new laws, will be the people who really need the pain meds.
About half the doctors (probably more) in this area will not even prescribe them because of the paperwork they are forced to put up with. And the ones that do force their patients to go through a drug screening. No accusation of drug abuse, no arrest on drug charges and the doctor's office becomes an arm of the law.
Meanwhile my drug abusing step kids chuckle about how easy it is to get it on the streets. And china and mexico smuggle tons into this country.
Exactly right.
We always need to remember that there are people who are in legitimate need of these medications. Now I tout the benefits of medical marijuana wherever I can, but even I am forced to admit there are some levels of pain it cannot deal with.
And they are always the 1st ones to suffer when people start to abuse it.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
I have been asked a million times why don't I just give up? How much money are you going to waste on a lost cause they say? They say I'm never going to win this battle. Once I sink my teeth in I will never be dislodged.
O and I'm not done yet. I won't be done until the school nurse can administer the meds, Instead of the family having to leave work to come to the school to administer medications.
And in case some knucklehead is wondering.... No elementary school child smokes marijuana, It's usually given in drops under the tongue or in pill form.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
Some may call it a baby step, but at least its a step in the right direction.
https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Broward-Schools-Set-New-Rules-on-Medical-Marijuana.html
Very nice.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
When the US has problems getting products shipped, because half the truck driving force is no longer allowed to drive, because they are now testing for painkillers on the DOT drug testing, then maybe the problem will get looked at.
If you test positive for any painkillers, like Vicodin, hydrocodone or any of those, you can lose your commercial driver's license.
There are exceptions, but a person would be surprised at how many are using painkillers.
They can't take painkillers, can't use CBD or pot, then what?
How does a person do pain management, if everything is prohibited?
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Ephedrine and Epinephrine are the primary ingredients for asthma meds over the counter.
And since it also can be used to make meth or what ever it makes, all of the over the counter meds that were available to folks without a prescription are no longer available.
Primatene, one of the leading OTC asthma meds now requires a prescription in a lot of states and went from $15/box to $50/box.
So let's not deal with the actual problem, let's make the law abiding people who need the product suffer.
The good ol' US of A way.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.