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Shop Etiquette

VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
in Cigar 101
I am relatively new to cigars, but I seem to have bad luck. It seems natural for me to perform a roll test when I get a cigar. First off, what is the general opinion on roll test? I typically only buy higher end cigars.(All $10+ per stick)... Today, I bought 4 cigars for a total of $60... when I got home, I did the roll test on them, and one of them made a bunch of cracking sounds and the wrapper started splitting in places... the store I use is one of the best in Houston and I hate to question its quality, but I feel a cigar should not crack like that. Recently, I bought a Alec Bradley sampler pack from him. 3 of the 4 sticks in the pack cracked and seemed low quality... I know it’s not my humidor, because the AB stayed in the humidified pack they came in.... so my questions are this...

is the roll test accurate and widely used?
If I get a stick that cracks, should I take it back to the shop I bought it from?

I saw a video on YouTube that said you should never perform a rolltest at the shop, because you “should trust your shop”... this seems asinine to me. A product is a product. But it leads me to believe that maybe cigars shops and smokers do stuff differently. I really like the shop and the owner, so I don’t want to insult them, but I also don’t want sticks that crack in my hands. Is it a shop issue, or a maker issue?
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Comments

  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    Well stop freaking doing that!
    And why do you assume that the shop is taking proper care of them?
    Put them in your humidor for a bit and let them get to the proper humidity.

    I never assume that the shop takes care of them properly and I never trust anyone.
    In the humi they go for a rest and I smoke something that I have on hand.

    How hard are you rolling the cigar that you are splitting them?
    What are you trying to determine by the roll test?
    Have you determined what humidity you prefer your cigars or are you following the hype of 70%?

    And what kind of AB sticks are you paying $10+ each for?
    Holy crap, that's expensive.

    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • CalvinAndHoboCalvinAndHobo Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To be fair, he did ask if the roll test is accurate and widely used. I personally can not imagine doing that to one of my cigars. It reminds me of the witch test, where if she floats, she's a witch and you kill her but if she drowns she's innocent. Like @0patience said, anything that I buy I let sit in my humidor for a while. 2 weeks at minimum is what most everyone here will tell you. I'm also wondering, when you roll it are you pushing down? I would just say stop doing it all together. The best way to tell if it's ok is to light it up. If it smokes badly then you can toss it just the same. Welcome to the forum, we're all cranky cigar lovers but once you stick around for a while I'd compare it to a sports team, with everyone trying to coach each other and help each other get better and smarter about cigars.
  • CalvinAndHoboCalvinAndHobo Posts: 3,134 ✭✭✭✭✭
    But you're our a$$hole and we love you for it. 
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Why would anyone do a roll test?  What do you hope to learn from it?  It's something people did a hundred years ago and I've even seen it done in some old movies, and it's pointless.
    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I’ve been smoking cigars for years and I’ve never heard of the roll test. I wouldn’t dare do that to any of my sticks and most of them don’t come close to being a $10 stick. It sounds like a great way to fvck up a decent cigar. 

    Make sure youre using a digital hygrometer in your humi and that its calibrated. Then, as was said earlier, let your sticks rest for a couple weeks or more at your preferred relative humidity. I personally keep mine at 65% Rh but I find that they smoke better for me at 62%. 

    Stick around, friend, and you can learn a lot from these guys. 


  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The roll test is not universally practiced. I don't recommend anyone perform the roll test at all, but then again everyone is entitled to squeeze and sniff and lick their own cigars. Not the shop's cigars. They are not your cigars, yet.  
  • deadmandeadman Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭✭✭
    0patience said:

    And what kind of AB sticks are you paying $10+ each for?
    Holy crap, that's expensive.

    That’s what I was thinking.

    @Vikingjimmy
    i have done this on occasion, when I think a stick maybe to wet. Never cracked a wrapper though. It doesn’t take much pressure. If I don’t hear anything then it’s too humid for my taste. Also these are my cigars I have already purchased. If you’re questioning if they are dried out then your in the wrong BnM. 
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    0patience said:
    Well stop freaking doing that!
    And why do you assume that the shop is taking proper care of them?
    Put them in your humidor for a bit and let them get to the proper humidity.

    I never assume that the shop takes care of them properly and I never trust anyone.
    In the humi they go for a rest and I smoke something that I have on hand.

    How hard are you rolling the cigar that you are splitting them?
    What are you trying to determine by the roll test?
    Have you determined what humidity you prefer your cigars or are you following the hype of 70%?

    And what kind of AB sticks are you paying $10+ each for?
    Holy crap, that's expensive.

    Clarification: The ABs were part of a sampler pack, and were not $10 each. That being said, after trying the four in the pack, I now buy Prensados, which are $10+. 

    And i agree, I don’t trust them or automatically assume they take care of the sticks either. Enter the roll test.

    Being new to everything, I went with the easy route and I just buy the 69% pack and threw it in once I got it seasoned. My hydrometer stays between 70-73%

    I feel like I am being pretty gentle when I do the roll. Just a light squeeze. 

     
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    CalvinAndHobo said:
    To be fair, he did ask if the roll test is accurate and widely used. I personally can not imagine doing that to one of my cigars. It reminds me of the witch test, where if she floats, she's a witch and you kill her but if she drowns she's innocent. Like @0patience said, anything that I buy I let sit in my humidor for a while. 2 weeks at minimum is what most everyone here will tell you. I'm also wondering, when you roll it are you pushing down? I would just say stop doing it all together. The best way to tell if it's ok is to light it up. If it smokes badly then you can toss it just the same. Welcome to the forum, we're all cranky cigar lovers but once you stick around for a while I'd compare it to a sports team, with everyone trying to coach each other and help each other get better and smarter about cigars.
    Thanks for the info. Sounds like it’s time to kick the roll test lol. I would say I push down a little bit, but I make an effort to do it as gently as possible but still firm enough to detect cracking
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    jlmarta said:
    I’ve been smoking cigars for years and I’ve never heard of the roll test. I wouldn’t dare do that to any of my sticks and most of them don’t come close to being a $10 stick. It sounds like a great way to fvck up a decent cigar. 

    Make sure youre using a digital hygrometer in your humi and that its calibrated. Then, as was said earlier, let your sticks rest for a couple weeks or more at your preferred relative humidity. I personally keep mine at 65% Rh but I find that they smoke better for me at 62%. 

    Stick around, friend, and you can learn a lot from these guys. 


    I’m definitely going to upgrade to digital soon. I just use the analog that came with the humidor. It took me a while, but I finally got it calibrated good, but of course, it has probably gotten off the mark. 

    Can you be specific on why you like the % so low? Everyone has preached 69-73%, some of my friends even saying they like them “wet”, at like 76%. I’m not really sure where I like mine yet, but I seem to be happy as long as they aren’t flaking apart on me
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    peter4jc said:
    Why would anyone do a roll test?  What do you hope to learn from it?  It's something people did a hundred years ago and I've even seen it done in some old movies, and it's pointless.
    I’m just trying to get a feel for if it is dried out or not. I threw away a decent stick halfway through because the wrapper started falling off. So now, if I roll it and it starts to crack real loud or flake, I let it sit for a while 
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Posts: 12,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    When it is too wet and kept at too high of % some things happen. They normally don’t combust as well, many get a Tar like buildup at the head where you are smoking, they smoke hot and get bitter and some can balloon and “explode” or swell and crack. Lastly but probably most importantly is the likelihood for mold growth goes way up. 

    I keep mine between 62-65% as they burn better, smoother and more cool and I get better flavors thanks to that. There is no harm at all so long as you are at 60% or higher. 
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    deadman said:
    0patience said:

    And what kind of AB sticks are you paying $10+ each for?
    Holy crap, that's expensive.

    That’s what I was thinking.

    @Vikingjimmy
    i have done this on occasion, when I think a stick maybe to wet. Never cracked a wrapper though. It doesn’t take much pressure. If I don’t hear anything then it’s too humid for my taste. Also these are my cigars I have already purchased. If you’re questioning if they are dried out then your in the wrong BnM. 
    Prensados are in that price range. I only smoke 1-2 sticks a week, so I go for quality over quantity. 

    So if it makes no sound, you let it harden up some?  What percentage do you keep your humidor?
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Posts: 12,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don’t roll and I don’t even squeeze much when I have a cigar. Some have very thin or delicate wrappers and even in perfect conditions could be damaged. Going by feel instead of known quantifiable information like time in humidor and rH kept at seems foolish to me. 2 weeks in my humi at 62-65% and I know it will be smoking well and ready to burn. That simple, I don’t need to test it just smoke it. If I have a Pack or box of cigars that are new to me or recently released and I smoke one and it seems young to me (burns wonky, too hot and bitter etc) then I will let them age longer and likely even dry box one for 6-12 hrs before smoking and that normally gets it smoking well and more enjoyably. 
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • VikingjimmyVikingjimmy Posts: 14 ✭✭
    90+_Irishman said:
    I don’t roll and I don’t even squeeze much when I have a cigar. Some have very thin or delicate wrappers and even in perfect conditions could be damaged. Going by feel instead of known quantifiable information like time in humidor and rH kept at seems foolish to me. 2 weeks in my humi at 62-65% and I know it will be smoking well and ready to burn. That simple, I don’t need to test it just smoke it. If I have a Pack or box of cigars that are new to me or recently released and I smoke one and it seems young to me (burns wonky, too hot and bitter etc) then I will let them age longer and likely even dry box one for 6-12 hrs before smoking and that normally gets it smoking well and more enjoyably. 
    It’s a matter of impatience I believe, as well as not completely trusting my hydrometer, as opposed to being foolish.  If I knew for a fact that my cheap analog was completely accurate, then I wouldn’t have felt the need to test them on my own.

    Thats an interesting point about some wrappers naturally being too delicate, I definitely never considered that. 

    I definetly have noticed some of mine being too hot and even bitter. I just figured it was the cigar itself. Sounds like I need to lower the rH
  • deadmandeadman Posts: 8,855 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vikingjimmy said:
    deadman said:
    0patience said:

    And what kind of AB sticks are you paying $10+ each for?
    Holy crap, that's expensive.

    That’s what I was thinking.

    @Vikingjimmy
    i have done this on occasion, when I think a stick maybe to wet. Never cracked a wrapper though. It doesn’t take much pressure. If I don’t hear anything then it’s too humid for my taste. Also these are my cigars I have already purchased. If you’re questioning if they are dried out then your in the wrong BnM. 
    Prensados are in that price range. I only smoke 1-2 sticks a week, so I go for quality over quantity. 

    So if it makes no sound, you let it harden up some?  What percentage do you keep your humidor?
    Prensados can be had cheaper than that. I keep my cooler in the 67/68 range 
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Posts: 16,672 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Like Nick said, Prensados can be found for $5 each in robusto... you can feel free to call or email Andy at Ccom and he'll hook you up.  I like the Prensado too, it's one of my favorite AB's, along w/ the Tempurs Nicaragua.

    Back to the roll test... I just don't think it'd be a reliable way to gauge a cigar; in a given storage unit, be it a cooler, humidor, etc where they're all in the same environment, some sticks can be hard as a rock and still draw and burn perfect, while others that have what appear to be a perfect feel and heft have a sucky draw and burn.  You just won't know until you smoke it.

    And welcome to the forum; you weren't fazed by use assholz so you'll fit right in.
    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • silvermousesilvermouse Posts: 21,080 ✭✭✭✭✭
    life is much simpler if your standards, like mine, are very low. :p
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I have had trouble out of the prensados. Great flavors at times but often they didn't want to stay lit. I have a suspicion that particular tobaccos used in the blend are extremely oily to begin with or either they are overly absorbent of moisture.  I had one just a few days ago that burned well. But, then again, I had it in my possession for four years at 65%.

    You are new and, like Peter said, seem to have gotten over the initial first encounter with our typical of behavior. Therefore you are in a position to experience the best education you will most likely ever get regarding cigars and it's all right here. You'll get more knowledge here in one year than you would in five years of hanging around your local cigar shop. 

    Welcome to the forum @Vikingjimmy  


  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2018
    When I first started with cigars I actually had the owner tell me to go ahead and squeeze (gently) the cigars I picked up. But the curmudgeon who owns operates and hates online sales in Jackson, would probably shoot me if I tried.
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,833 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jd50ae said:
    When I first started with cigars I actually had the owner tell me to go ahead and squeeze (gently) the cigars I picked up. But the curmudgeon who owns operates and hates online sales in Jackson, would probably shoot me if I tried.


    Will you just go ahead and torch that place?
  • ForMudForMud Posts: 2,336 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do roll or pinch if I encounter a plug on a stick to open it up. You just have to be gentle. Cracked a few while doing it, but saved more.   
  • jd50aejd50ae Posts: 7,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bob_Luken said:
    jd50ae said:
    When I first started with cigars I actually had the owner tell me to go ahead and squeeze (gently) the cigars I picked up. But the curmudgeon who owns operates and hates online sales in Jackson, would probably shoot me if I tried.


    Will you just go ahead and torch that place?
    I am trying to convince him that online cigar buyers probably support B&M shops more than he wants to understand. Since I only visit his shop maybe once a year, it could be a long conversation.
  • GuitardedGuitarded Posts: 4,710 ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Vikingjimmy welcome to the forum!  :) 
    Thank you for your service.
    It sounds like you will fit in here.
    Stick around and ask questions.
    Lots of great people and tons of info, but I am not one of them and know nothing.
    Friends don't let good friends smoke cheap cigars.
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You will find, that there are many x-spurts that believe that their way is the only way.
    Because we all have different habits, live in different environments and like our cigars differently, those x-spurts are often correct for them, but not anyone else.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Posts: 12,409 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Happy to help out and sounds like you’re on a good path @Vikingjimmy, welcome and hope you stay a while and enjoy the place. Thanks for your service as well as your help in the community, stay safe!
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
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