Sovereign Citizens

jd50ae

I apologize in advance.

But, they are without a doubt some of the most pathetically stupid people in this country.
It does not matter how many numbers they have memorized. It does not matter how hard they try to talk over someone and refuse to listen.

They invariably end up with broken windows, tazed, locked up and finally go to court where they still have not learned anything.

Amos_Umwhat

I'm lost.  Is this an organization of some sort?  Either I haven't been paying attention, or I just forgot them altogether.

Sleddog46

Jd, would you please clarify?

deadman

Amos_Umwhat said:

I'm lost.  Is this an organization of some sort?  Either I haven't been paying attention, or I just forgot them altogether.

They claim to be sovereign from local/federal laws. Been around for quite a while 

0patience

They claim that as a sovereign citizen, they don't need to have a driver's license, social security card or pay taxes.

How they get money is beyond me.

jd50ae

@Sleddog46 
And anyone else who has not heard of them.

They are a growing problem.
They pop up on PD live every once in awhile. I don't know how cops and judges put up with their cr^p.
YouTube has a ton of vids about them.
Basically the laws you and I follow do not apply to them. They declare they are not US citizens. A lot (all?) of them do not pay taxes.
No DL, no registration, no insurance, and they refuse to give up their names or addresses when they are pulled over. They are growing in numbers. It turns out that they are responsible for some of the reported violence in the news. I  have an idea why the "main stream media" does not talk about them, still working on that.

If you have the time I suggest you check out YouTube. That would be a lot easier and quicker then me trying to explain them with my limited language skills.

One thing I have noticed is they are always taping and usually there is a 2nd person in the passenger seat that stays off camera and is feeding the driver what to say from what sounds like a script.

BKDog

Much of what they are attempting to support is quite true, the people of this country are supposed to be born Citizens with sovereign rights which are inalienable, and per the 10th Amendment, the States and Citizens do collectively possess the freedom to do many things without being subjugated by "federal" government. HOWEVER -that country, the republic we once had was exchanged for a corporate oligarchy many, many years ago, and not one of us alive were actually born into it. Therefore, it's play along to get along. Given the status of the educational system in America, I have absolutely zero F&CKS given when I see these idiots trying to outsmart legalized mafia (government) because it's a no-win situation.

But, we shouldn't assume these people have no standing at all, we do operate entirely within colorable law (having the appearance and substance of law but none at all) with enforced codified statutes and policies in place of common law. I give you the United States CODE, Uniform Commercial CODE, Federal Reserve CODE, Internal Revenue CODE, and any and all State CODES...and never mind the rest because you're not here to learn about all of that, just share great information on cigars.

Suffice it to say, none of it matters any more. It's far too late to save the republic. Let's just continue the dream of believing our tax dollars actually pays for anything we want socially and there's plenty left over after the national debt is taken care of, and there is no deficit, it's all pretend, we're not really indebted to a private baking cartel who charges the "government" face value plus interest to USE their money, Nope. Everything is just fine. Life is great.

YankeeMan

Like them or not. laws are there for a reason.  Could you imagine a society with no laws.  Just look at traffic laws alone.  We hate stop signs and traffic lights, but could you picture a major city at rush hour without them, it  would be bumper cars with no restriction!

webmost

YankeeMan said:

... could you picture a major city at rush hour without them...

https://youtu.be/yTgTP304RYA

Usaf06

Flat Earthers and Sovereign citizens are actually the same group of people. Both ridiculously stupid.

BKDog

Usaf06 said:

Flat Earthers and Sovereign citizens are actually the same group of people. Both ridiculously stupid.

And so are rabid dogs and militarized police.

jd50ae

This is a good example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy2Z9Lstlxs

BKDog

jd50ae said:

This is a good example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy2Z9Lstlxs

Oh dear lord...yeah, I am 100% with you. And these people are NOT "sovereign citizens". I'm thinking whoever is responsible for labeling these idiots did so on purpose so they can smear the actual sovereign movement, which dates back more than 100 years ago.

Amos_Umwhat

Wow!  I'm starting to think Eugenics may not be such a bad idea.  Early identification and sterilization could prevent this in the future.


Of course, I'm being facetious.


Or not.

Usaf06

BKDog said:

Usaf06 said:

Flat Earthers and Sovereign citizens are actually the same group of people. Both ridiculously stupid.

And so are rabid dogs and militarized police.

What exactly is militarized police? Does the 2nd amendment apply to only citizens or do police get to enjoy those rights also? Heavy equipped police are used to deal with heavy equipped populace. Or should police just retreat and surrender cause they are over whelmed? I never understood the whole uproar of police being heavily armed and able to defend themselves. Ive seen armored vehicles stop AK-47 rounds meant for police on a search warrant. Should they have just walked up instead and took the rounds to the chest? So tell me, what exactly is militarized police?

webmost

I have to wonder whether that lady is related in some way, either cousin or wife or both, to a carefree young feller who goes by the comical sobriquet Tickle on a show which my wife adores to watch.

jd50ae

With so many cops being murdered in the line of duty from ambushes to jumpy "I was afraid" thugs I often wonder if they are militarized enough.
I watch all the "reality" cop shows. And I watch the vids on YouTube. The cr^p they put up with from the public is disgusting and I could never take it. And then there are the department policy's that get in the way of them doing their jobs. Why would anyone want to be a cop?
PD Live is the best thing on TV and should be a real eye opener for everyone.
And if anyone has been paying attention the advent of dash cams and body cams has reduced the false complaints against cops so much you hardly ever hear one anymore.
The idiot "Sovereign Citizens" think vid recording helps out with their ridiculous claims, when in fact it just proves how easily they can be manipulated into being so stupid.

jd50ae

webmost said:

I have to wonder whether that lady is related in some way, either cousin or wife or both, to a carefree young feller who goes by the comical sobriquet Tickle on a show which my wife adores to watch.

I wonder if "she" is related to anybody....

jlmarta

Yep. I’d say that video is pretty representative of a fairly large percentage of our population. 

BKDog

Usaf06 said:

BKDog said:

Usaf06 said:

Flat Earthers and Sovereign citizens are actually the same group of people. Both ridiculously stupid.

And so are rabid dogs and militarized police.

What exactly is militarized police? Does the 2nd amendment apply to only citizens or do police get to enjoy those rights also? Heavy equipped police are used to deal with heavy equipped populace. Or should police just retreat and surrender cause they are over whelmed? I never understood the whole uproar of police being heavily armed and able to defend themselves. Ive seen armored vehicles stop AK-47 rounds meant for police on a search warrant. Should they have just walked up instead and took the rounds to the chest? So tell me, what exactly is militarized police?

Please. I comprehend exactly how disgusting it may be to see how pathetic people are these days, with drugs and crime and every scumbag out there disrespecting law enforcement. The question we ought to be asking is, why we've accepted this militarized role of police in the first place, instead of blindly promoting a Gestapo-like storm trooper brigade. Listen, the police are going to continue being more militarized as this society slips further into chaos, and I like to think we're all old enough here to remember what it was like just 20 or 30 years ago compared to today. We could leave our doors unlocked, our kids could go out and play without us worrying about sickos and people weren't going out shooting up movie theaters because they forgot to take their Prozac that day. What's the answer, then? More police, more armor, more "assault rifles" in the hands of the corporate enforcers? Really? We're fighting the symptoms, but ignoring the damn cause of these issues.

More people today are medicated with psychotropic prescribed drugs than ever before, and the pharmaceutical industry rakes in close to 400 billion annually, and more every year. There were 44 psychiatric drugs in 1966, with almost 200 available today. The top 5 psychotropic drugs combined gross more money than the GNP of each of over half the countries on Earth. Now, how many violent criminals, how many of these "mass shooters" were prescribed any of these drugs? And as for the romanticizing and popularization of Breaking Bad, the TV series promoting meth production and lifestyle, it's just indicative of the sickness within our culture and how easily people can be manipulated. Who really runs the illicit drugs in this country, just the common folk or the CIA and their counterparts? When it comes to marijuana, should it take a freaking rocket scientist to confirm that placing that plant at the top of the Schedule 1 list only serves to criminalize people. http://www.drugpolicy.org/resource/removing-marijuana-schedule-controlled-substances The economy worsens, "so what if we vote another Socialist into office, we will just elect a Republican next time", and things never really change, do they? We're still taxed for healthcare, taxed on any "income", taxed by most States, local municipalities, and people actually believe their money goes toward social programs? We're 22 Trillion in the hole: http://www.usdebtclock.org/ And I seriously doubt these corporations give a single solitary fart about you and I, or any of us at the end of the day.

More police, that's the answer, right? Let's show them some discipline, right? These "punks", these "perps" just don't appreciate Any Griffith these days. Well, this ain't Mayberry no more! You can't do an Orwell and 1984 your way to freedom, sorry. If you want solutions, start with yourself and stop promoting slavery. the Hegelian Dialectic certainly does run its course, that's for certain. These problems we're having DEMAND a "solution", and corporate government is all too willing to get involved. It's sad that more people don't see that government is the problem.

The further our society slips away from liberty, the more abusive and corrupt our "government" will become; this also means the government enforcers, the militarized police, will reflect this condition.

BKDog

jd50ae said:

With so many cops being murdered in the line of duty from ambushes to jumpy "I was afraid" thugs I often wonder if they are militarized enough.
I watch all the "reality" cop shows. And I watch the vids on YouTube. The cr^p they put up with from the public is disgusting and I could never take it. And then there are the department policy's that get in the way of them doing their jobs. Why would anyone want to be a cop?

Every day it seems like, another new cop show is aired. We're a nation that has been indoctrinated to accept our slavery. From murder mystery to cop drama and police comedy, it's everywhere. Somewhere along the way we went from Andy Griffith to Lethal Weapon in 30 seconds flat. I've known some great people in my life, some of the best were/are in law enforcement to some degree or other. It takes a really strong person to have to put up with filth every day and not lose it at some point. That being said, we can choose to either remain test subjects, or we can break away from this insanity and look at it for what it really is: a prison state. It's big business these days, from prisons to bail, everything in between and property forfeiture is just one small piece of the pie. We're literally like the Duracell batteries keeping this predatory corporate system running.

peter4jc

I see your observations - some valid, some not - but I don't see your solutions...

Suppose the culture as a whole agrees that we live in a prison state, we don't like it and we want to go back to being Mayberry RFD.  Say it takes 10 years.  What happens in the meantime with the cops?  You want them to go back to the days of Mayberry now, just ride around in cop cars with nothing but a revolver and a badge as their protection?  Police departments are buying tactical arms and vehicles not because it looks nice - they're just trying to be alive when their shift ends so they can go home to their families.

I'd ask you a question BKDog; what do you see the role of government to be in the lives of its citizens?

jd50ae

0patience

I gotta agree with @peter4jc
I see a lot of problems brought up, but you can't have solutions without some enforcement.

As a native american, the term sovereign citizen makes me chuckle, especially when it is from a person of European decent. 

Respect, decency and discipline are all gone and people wonder why this world is going to hell? 

miller65rod

Good thing I built that Y2K bunker over 20 years ago. 

Wylaff

Holy. Crap.

https://abovethelaw.com/2015/04/pro-se-filing-of-the-day-notice-to-fck-this-court-and-everything-that-it-stands-for/

Yes this was actually filed. In a federal court. By a sovereign citizen. From Florida.

Feast your eyes, ladies and gentlemen.

Usaf06

This is common. Many officers have had liens filed on them by these people they have arrested.

Stubble

Usaf06 said:

This is common. Many officers have had liens filed on them by these people they have arrested.

How do these nutjobs file said liens?

jd50ae

Stubble said:

Usaf06 said:

This is common. Many officers have had liens filed on them by these people they have arrested.

How do these nutjobs file said liens?

Lawyers will do anything? Probably hired the creepy porn lawyer.

BKDog

peter4jc said:

I see your observations - some valid, some not - but I don't see your solutions...

Suppose the culture as a whole agrees that we live in a prison state, we don't like it and we want to go back to being Mayberry RFD.  Say it takes 10 years.  What happens in the meantime with the cops?  You want them to go back to the days of Mayberry now, just ride around in cop cars with nothing but a revolver and a badge as their protection?  Police departments are buying tactical arms and vehicles not because it looks nice - they're just trying to be alive when their shift ends so they can go home to their families.

I'd ask you a question BKDog; what do you see the role of government to be in the lives of its citizens?

As Krishnamurti would say, it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a sick society. We don't belong to government, and we shouldn't need it for anything aside from border security and road maintenance. That's my silly opinion. It's simple, so simple it's ridiculous that more folks don't get it. Washington, Jefferson, many framers of our Constitution warned us that government is like wildfire, and it will become uncontrollable at some point. We've long passed that point, folks. One city in Texas has the right idea, they fired the police and hired private security and the crime plummeted to being almost nonexistent. It can work, most are too afraid to admit they've been deceived into believing they need government and police to "protect" them, to "solve" all their problems.

0patience

A govt that does not fear it's people, is no longer run "by the people".

Regulation is necessary, but when the public is regulated out of freedoms, it becomes a communist or socialist party. That was not the intent of the founding fathers.

Historically, civil wars and revolutions have happened within countries on an average of 100-150 years, give or take.
The last civil war was about 170 years ago. The math plays out that we and a few other countries are on the verge of the timeline for something to happen.