I see some of the flavor descriptions under aromas. I agree I think in 6 months or a year you will look back to 1) what did this taste like, 2) did it burn well and have a good draw.
Everything else may be nice to catalog but may be irrelevant. Or maybe not! I do think this is cool.
I like the detail, but one thing I would ask (your future self) who is reading a review 2 years from now and has no idea what you were thinking. Does the present review concisely summarize the cigar and jog your memory so you can say "Ah that was a great cigar, I need to buy another box" or "Oh those werent great, Ill pass on that deal"
This makes me think that a simplified ccom form version of this could be fun. I always thought we needed more thoughtful* reviews on this forum.
(*"more thoughtful reviews" as in Id like to see higher volume of reviews. Not as in the reviews posted here lack thought).
What if we had a google sheet with a few criteria to grade (1-10 or something) , and if anyone feels like updating it as they smoke they could enter a row in... include @ username, cigar, size, taste, burn, age (to them), smoking time... just a few variables, and then we could have a formula to generate a 0-100 score thats built in.
Itd be neat to 1) get some participation from nerds on here, 2) see what different guys and ladies and smoking and how they rate. And then we could do some fun little analysis. Like what types of cigars score higher for forum users, what we like, what we dont like, how does the exact same cigar get rated across reviewers.
We used to do some fun little smoke and post events where we would decide on a cigar to smoke on one day or over a weekend (for example, DPG blue next weekend), and then everyone would post up pics and a short or long review, thoughts, whatever. Was fun to interact with others smoking the exact same cigar.
Personally, I've found that maintaining detailed account of every cigar to be a waste of time because my tastes change over time and I find myself not enjoying the same cigar years later in the same way. Therefore, the standard criteria established in the Google Sheet I linked earlier is fair and impartial and doesn't factor in any transitory elements. Edit- I have to add that if you take away the 'enjoyability' part of the scoring and only score to 50 points, this is what I usually do. To date, I've only got perhaps a dozen cigars I really love and still have many more I like, but the list of the cigars that are still classified as 'very good' are just not worth my time any more. Again, this is not because the cigars have changed, it's because my own tastes and preferences have migrated.
Your mileage may vary.
@TheKraken said: @Gray4lines thats a great idea! That would be super fun for my nerdy self and, selfishly, I'd learn alot.
Let's do it. We can spitball a "form" to fill out and figure out how many and which fields we want to include. I would say fewer is better just to try and get some more participation.
Once we have the review form/scorecard we can post a new thread and pin it/ link the sheet.
Could be fun! Even if its just you and I who post a review, lol.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Yes, if anyone has a form I am not above plagiarizing. Thank @BKDog for the example too. We can compare across forms and take whichever criteria we think is sufficient.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@BKDog ’s form is a lot more detailed, and probably better describes the experience. The grading system I used lacks strength and complexity, though its simplicity was useful for compiling a larger number of cigars:
Basically 10 points total:
Flavor gets 5 points
Construction/burn gets 3 points
Appearance/aesthetics gets 2 points
Allowing for tenths of a point helped increase variety of responses...
Some of us in the Unbanded contest thought 20% was a lot of weight to give to appearance/aesthetics. It's nice to not be smoking an ugly cigar but if it's ringing all the other bells and only scores 80% that's a handicap it shouldn't be given.
@peter4jc said:
Some of us in the Unbanded contest thought 20% was a lot of weight to give to appearance/aesthetics. It's nice to not be smoking an ugly cigar but if it's ringing all the other bells and only scores 80% that's a handicap it shouldn't be given.
I would agree with that. Padron brown labels can be pretty ugly and bumpy. But so good! I think the uglier, the better, even.
Definitely some thought should be given to weighting each component and how that effects the score. That's the tough part about boiling a cigar down into a single number. But, I think can still be fun.
@peter4jc said:
Some of us in the Unbanded contest thought 20% was a lot of weight to give to appearance/aesthetics. It's nice to not be smoking an ugly cigar but if it's ringing all the other bells and only scores 80% that's a handicap it shouldn't be given.
I got the idea from PCC, they used the term and I liked it. That's the honest answer.
Since including it, I've thought about it and the term goes hand-in-hand with complexity. You could do away with it entirely and submit 15 points to complexity, but there's a window of opportunity to utilize a small segment of cigar tasting that may be overlooked. From start to finish, first third to final, what was the journey like? It could also be a limited edition cigar or a cigar that has rested and migrated in flavor, or that rare morphine drip effect of calmness. For example, a Padron 1926 is pretty damn good and has very good complexity ranging from cedar and earthiness to pepper and spice, but the first third isn't quite the same as the second and third. Not too much dynamic range, but enough to grant it 4 points (I would also agree with 3 points). But, if I take a Paul Stulac Red Screaming Sun lancero and experience a transition from a deep nougat and caramel to a steady and nuttiness and earthy layer of tones, followed by a moderate undertone of chocolate and spice, I'm giving that 5 points in dynamic range.
"Love is a dung heap, Betty and I am but a c.o.c.k. that climbs upon it to crow."
I really like the dynamic range grade, but wondering if everyone will read that the same (I guess it doesn't matter since we're going to average them out). But I'm assuming that we're saying 5 is given to the greatest range of flavors. Wondering if a cigar showing the greatest range is what we really think should be graded highest? What if it's just a great flavor that we don't want to change? I think a greater range is better, but not sure if everyone does.
89, Interesting. This is one of my favorites, but it's totally not for everyone. I still wish you'd add a post light taste or flavor rating. Have you played with the numbers on this thing in general to see how much each category affects the overall rating?
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@TheKraken said:
Next up Partagas Legend. This is what I'm talking about, I liked this more than my grading system. Definitely needs some work
As a Petite Corona/Lancero (Panetela/Panatela both are correct) smoker I find if I smoked it like a thicker ring cigar it burns way hotter then it should. A Panetela should be “sipped” with shorter draws about a minute+ apart. It can take me well over an hour to smoke an Lancero. Revisit skinnies as time goes on..... it’s such an great cigar to learn on and from.
Edit to add more.
I’ve always found a Lancero is almost never a solid roll. Airflow can be extremely compromised if it’s even slightly too tight a roll.
Also a hot burning cigar smoked too quickly can contribute to a shjitttie burn
@VegasFrank said:
89, Interesting. This is one of my favorites, but it's totally not for everyone. I still wish you'd add a post light taste or flavor rating. Have you played with the numbers on this thing in general to see how much each category affects the overall rating?
Haven't adjusted it recently, will hopefully be able to get to that this week. Honestly, I liked it, but I like the Cromagnon better. In fairness, I was bug spraying my lawn almost all afternoon, so my taste was pretty effed.
I was always impressed with the MOWs. I didnt know they were still around. The little devils side projects may have been my favorite. I maybe had 1 or 2 armadas when they were pretty new but dont rememner them at all.
I think I agree on the Roma. I really like cromagnons. The broadlef wrapper seems to go really well with the cameroon binder. Kind of a smokey earthy and sweet contrast. I havent had nearly as many of the aquitaine, but they seem like more of a leather, pepper, and sweet. Not as much contrast. I always have trouble keeping the ligero wrappers lit too. The one I smoked ROTT today was super wonky.
I wish I would have picked up some more Armadas, just got a 5er, as I think they will only get better with time, if I can keep them! Haven't had any more MOWs though this makes me want to try some.
I've got an Aquitaine waiting for the right time for me to pick it up, but have had the Cromagnon in a number of sizes and really liked them all. I want to give the Neanderthal a few more tries.
I found the regular wan 'o war to be the best of the line back when I smoked the anthology sampler. I was much newer to cigars then so that should be taken into account.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
I think my favorite mow is the puro authentico, and of course, I like all of them because they don't suck.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@peter4jc said:
Some of us in the Unbanded contest thought 20% was a lot of weight to give to appearance/aesthetics. It's nice to not be smoking an ugly cigar but if it's ringing all the other bells and only scores 80% that's a handicap it shouldn't be given.
Slow to reading this response ... I will
Likely change scoring for next contest , I still need to keep it very simple so I can scale up. Maybe take away aesthetics all together , and make 2 points for complexity/transitions?
Comments
I see some of the flavor descriptions under aromas. I agree I think in 6 months or a year you will look back to 1) what did this taste like, 2) did it burn well and have a good draw.
Everything else may be nice to catalog but may be irrelevant. Or maybe not! I do think this is cool.
I like the detail, but one thing I would ask (your future self) who is reading a review 2 years from now and has no idea what you were thinking. Does the present review concisely summarize the cigar and jog your memory so you can say "Ah that was a great cigar, I need to buy another box" or "Oh those werent great, Ill pass on that deal"
This makes me think that a simplified ccom form version of this could be fun. I always thought we needed more thoughtful* reviews on this forum.
(*"more thoughtful reviews" as in Id like to see higher volume of reviews. Not as in the reviews posted here lack thought).
What if we had a google sheet with a few criteria to grade (1-10 or something) , and if anyone feels like updating it as they smoke they could enter a row in... include @ username, cigar, size, taste, burn, age (to them), smoking time... just a few variables, and then we could have a formula to generate a 0-100 score thats built in.
Itd be neat to 1) get some participation from nerds on here, 2) see what different guys and ladies and smoking and how they rate. And then we could do some fun little analysis. Like what types of cigars score higher for forum users, what we like, what we dont like, how does the exact same cigar get rated across reviewers.
We used to do some fun little smoke and post events where we would decide on a cigar to smoke on one day or over a weekend (for example, DPG blue next weekend), and then everyone would post up pics and a short or long review, thoughts, whatever. Was fun to interact with others smoking the exact same cigar.
Sorry this became very long
@Gray4lines thats a great idea! That would be super fun for my nerdy self and, selfishly, I'd learn alot.
@VegasFrank ya that seems like a big miss! You'd think I'd have actually graded the flavor...
Personally, I've found that maintaining detailed account of every cigar to be a waste of time because my tastes change over time and I find myself not enjoying the same cigar years later in the same way. Therefore, the standard criteria established in the Google Sheet I linked earlier is fair and impartial and doesn't factor in any transitory elements. Edit- I have to add that if you take away the 'enjoyability' part of the scoring and only score to 50 points, this is what I usually do. To date, I've only got perhaps a dozen cigars I really love and still have many more I like, but the list of the cigars that are still classified as 'very good' are just not worth my time any more. Again, this is not because the cigars have changed, it's because my own tastes and preferences have migrated.
Your mileage may vary.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1888v-SSsUW_2_52hjajdZUd7Ov8SN2apbeNfETS2zG4/edit?usp=sharing
Maybe this will help. If not, please ignore.
Let's do it. We can spitball a "form" to fill out and figure out how many and which fields we want to include. I would say fewer is better just to try and get some more participation.
Once we have the review form/scorecard we can post a new thread and pin it/ link the sheet.
Could be fun! Even if its just you and I who post a review, lol.
@EgoBoundary had a good "form" that we used.
Yes, if anyone has a form I am not above plagiarizing. Thank @BKDog for the example too. We can compare across forms and take whichever criteria we think is sufficient.
Yeah that one is good too from @BKDog
@BKDog ’s form is a lot more detailed, and probably better describes the experience. The grading system I used lacks strength and complexity, though its simplicity was useful for compiling a larger number of cigars:
Basically 10 points total:
Flavor gets 5 points
Construction/burn gets 3 points
Appearance/aesthetics gets 2 points
Allowing for tenths of a point helped increase variety of responses...
Some of us in the Unbanded contest thought 20% was a lot of weight to give to appearance/aesthetics. It's nice to not be smoking an ugly cigar but if it's ringing all the other bells and only scores 80% that's a handicap it shouldn't be given.
I would agree with that. Padron brown labels can be pretty ugly and bumpy. But so good! I think the uglier, the better, even.
Definitely some thought should be given to weighting each component and how that effects the score. That's the tough part about boiling a cigar down into a single number. But, I think can still be fun.
Excellent idea. Updated to reflect your suggestion.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eOMQQVDeDVFjUNjiNaPGkT4sQNihCkurB3ekgQcvvC0/edit?usp=sharing
Nice, @BKDog, but what does dynamic range mean?
Be glad there weren't any categories for flutter and wow, or jitter.
I got the idea from PCC, they used the term and I liked it. That's the honest answer.
Since including it, I've thought about it and the term goes hand-in-hand with complexity. You could do away with it entirely and submit 15 points to complexity, but there's a window of opportunity to utilize a small segment of cigar tasting that may be overlooked. From start to finish, first third to final, what was the journey like? It could also be a limited edition cigar or a cigar that has rested and migrated in flavor, or that rare morphine drip effect of calmness. For example, a Padron 1926 is pretty damn good and has very good complexity ranging from cedar and earthiness to pepper and spice, but the first third isn't quite the same as the second and third. Not too much dynamic range, but enough to grant it 4 points (I would also agree with 3 points). But, if I take a Paul Stulac Red Screaming Sun lancero and experience a transition from a deep nougat and caramel to a steady and nuttiness and earthy layer of tones, followed by a moderate undertone of chocolate and spice, I'm giving that 5 points in dynamic range.
I really like the dynamic range grade, but wondering if everyone will read that the same (I guess it doesn't matter since we're going to average them out). But I'm assuming that we're saying 5 is given to the greatest range of flavors. Wondering if a cigar showing the greatest range is what we really think should be graded highest? What if it's just a great flavor that we don't want to change? I think a greater range is better, but not sure if everyone does.
Also, next review from my woefully outdated Gonkulator (thanks @VegasFrank).
Roma Craft Neanderthal LH. This score seems to fit what I felt.
89, Interesting. This is one of my favorites, but it's totally not for everyone. I still wish you'd add a post light taste or flavor rating. Have you played with the numbers on this thing in general to see how much each category affects the overall rating?
As a Petite Corona/Lancero (Panetela/Panatela both are correct) smoker I find if I smoked it like a thicker ring cigar it burns way hotter then it should. A Panetela should be “sipped” with shorter draws about a minute+ apart. It can take me well over an hour to smoke an Lancero. Revisit skinnies as time goes on..... it’s such an great cigar to learn on and from.
Edit to add more.
I’ve always found a Lancero is almost never a solid roll. Airflow can be extremely compromised if it’s even slightly too tight a roll.
Also a hot burning cigar smoked too quickly can contribute to a shjitttie burn
Haven't adjusted it recently, will hopefully be able to get to that this week. Honestly, I liked it, but I like the Cromagnon better. In fairness, I was bug spraying my lawn almost all afternoon, so my taste was pretty effed.
1 of two great smokes today...Man O War Armada
2 of 2, very delicious Herrera Esteli Norteno
I was always impressed with the MOWs. I didnt know they were still around. The little devils side projects may have been my favorite. I maybe had 1 or 2 armadas when they were pretty new but dont rememner them at all.
I think I agree on the Roma. I really like cromagnons. The broadlef wrapper seems to go really well with the cameroon binder. Kind of a smokey earthy and sweet contrast. I havent had nearly as many of the aquitaine, but they seem like more of a leather, pepper, and sweet. Not as much contrast. I always have trouble keeping the ligero wrappers lit too. The one I smoked ROTT today was super wonky.
I wish I would have picked up some more Armadas, just got a 5er, as I think they will only get better with time, if I can keep them! Haven't had any more MOWs though this makes me want to try some.
I've got an Aquitaine waiting for the right time for me to pick it up, but have had the Cromagnon in a number of sizes and really liked them all. I want to give the Neanderthal a few more tries.
I found the regular wan 'o war to be the best of the line back when I smoked the anthology sampler. I was much newer to cigars then so that should be taken into account.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
I think my favorite mow is the puro authentico, and of course, I like all of them because they don't suck.
I think it would be interesting to reorder the Anthology sampler and try each of them again, to see how my tastes have changed.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
Let me know if you decide to do that, I may do the same thing except going through it for the first time.
But which one.... the Maduro is better imho but both are still don't suck.
Slow to reading this response ... I will
Likely change scoring for next contest , I still need to keep it very simple so I can scale up. Maybe take away aesthetics all together , and make 2 points for complexity/transitions?