A Scot in a kilt isn't racist because it doesn't stereotype the entire race, just the Scottish. A small distinction, yes, but likely an important one.
>
Not arguing, I agree with most of what you said above, but as a fine point of distinction I have to say you may have missed the mark here. I'm currently reading a book titled "Glencoe", which is in fact my family history. Clan MacDonald, like all Highland clans as well as the Irish, considered themselves to be a different race than the English or French, etc. The Gael, as in the root of Gaelic.
My own family is distinguished by the name McConnell, which is used only by the clan chieftains and their direct descendants in Clan MacDonald, as it indicates direct lineage from Conell, or Coneil, or any of the other various spellings. This is the warrior chief who drove the Vikings out of the clan lands in both Scotland and Ireland, the family holding lands on both sides of the water, as well as the Hebrides. The kilt being worn by the Gael, and not, for instance, the Angles.
Interestingly, the MacDonald clan were actually Vikings themselves who had settled into Scotland a few centuries before. The English certainly considered them, as well as the Irish, to be a different race than themselves. When they perpetrated the genocide against the Highlanders those of my family name who weren't killed or run out of the country had their ears lopped off and were sold as slaves into the West Indies. The ear cropping was so that they couldn't pass themselves off as "white" people, ie English. My mother's people were MacGregors, who fared even worse.
And, of course, recent history has shown the Germans to have considered themselves a different race, as in "master race".
My true point and contention in all this silliness is this: we are one race, human.
Since that is what I truly believe, it is my thought that we should quit all this "racist" nonsense, put it behind us, and stop letting the powerful delude us with their manipulations. Another point on which we're in 100% agreement, I think.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@CtheHam interesting point. Big business is ultimately ruled by the almighty dollar, and if a company like Mars thinks that they're going to sell one fewer box of instant rice, then they're going to let the loud minority rule the day. I think that Quaker oats cat is going to meet his maker in the next 10 years.
@Amos_Umwhat these are all fair points based on 100% logical fact, but your fine point of distinction is lost in the dull truth of the modern world. The modern world does not see Norwegians, Englishmen, Aryans, Slovaks, or any other ethnicity within the Caucasian realm as a different race today--not even the mediterraneans with their olive colored skin. That might be technically inaccurate or practically inaccurate, but it is just the way it is.
Effective argumentation in involves ethos and pathos, as well as logos, and your cold fact argument has no sizzle in the modern world.
So, I guess my reparations check is NOT in the mail. Oh well, c'est la vie. Lol.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Do away with logos, advertising, colors and everything else. Go back to the 1970’s dull generic labeling. Black print on white background. Oh, wait.......
I'm still troubled by what I did for that Klondike bar...
@CtheHam said:
In my humble opinion, many of these "racist" figures such as the tobacco Indian, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, Cleveland Indian, etc. are often only caricatures or representations of a figure that is being revered or honored. The woke generation has however only looked for something to be offended by rather than take the time to appreciate why the company decided to use that image as a representation of their brand. Many companies have had to change their marketing and logos to remove said figures from their products so as not to hurt others feelings. Ironically, as I walk through the local grocery store all references to any nationality other than "those with European descent" have been erased from all food products. I would think that this would be considered racist 10 years ago. Is it soon time for companies such as Wendy's, Quaker Oats and Gerber to remove their White mascots from their brand?
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are (exaggerated features and stereotypes). If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
@CtheHam said:
In my humble opinion, many of these "racist" figures such as the tobacco Indian, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, Cleveland Indian, etc. are often only caricatures or representations of a figure that is being revered or honored. The woke generation has however only looked for something to be offended by rather than take the time to appreciate why the company decided to use that image as a representation of their brand. Many companies have had to change their marketing and logos to remove said figures from their products so as not to hurt others feelings. Ironically, as I walk through the local grocery store all references to any nationality other than "those with European descent" have been erased from all food products. I would think that this would be considered racist 10 years ago. Is it soon time for companies such as Wendy's, Quaker Oats and Gerber to remove their White mascots from their brand?
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are. If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
@CtheHam said:
In my humble opinion, many of these "racist" figures such as the tobacco Indian, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, Cleveland Indian, etc. are often only caricatures or representations of a figure that is being revered or honored. The woke generation has however only looked for something to be offended by rather than take the time to appreciate why the company decided to use that image as a representation of their brand. Many companies have had to change their marketing and logos to remove said figures from their products so as not to hurt others feelings. Ironically, as I walk through the local grocery store all references to any nationality other than "those with European descent" have been erased from all food products. I would think that this would be considered racist 10 years ago. Is it soon time for companies such as Wendy's, Quaker Oats and Gerber to remove their White mascots from their brand?
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are. If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
...and I'm sure they'd have a headdress too...
Of course, but done with pride and reverence, not ridicule or unconscious bias. Big difference.
@CtheHam said:
In my humble opinion, many of these "racist" figures such as the tobacco Indian, Aunt Jemima, Uncle Ben, Cleveland Indian, etc. are often only caricatures or representations of a figure that is being revered or honored. The woke generation has however only looked for something to be offended by rather than take the time to appreciate why the company decided to use that image as a representation of their brand. Many companies have had to change their marketing and logos to remove said figures from their products so as not to hurt others feelings. Ironically, as I walk through the local grocery store all references to any nationality other than "those with European descent" have been erased from all food products. I would think that this would be considered racist 10 years ago. Is it soon time for companies such as Wendy's, Quaker Oats and Gerber to remove their White mascots from their brand?
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are. If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
...and I'm sure they'd have a headdress too...
Of course, but done with pride and reverence, not ridicule. Big difference.
Made with love like mom's chocolate chip cookies...that look just like every other chocolate chip cookie ever made!
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Amos_Umwhat said:
....created by their own kind...
That's racist.
Tribal is more like it. Tribal and cliquish is our primitive nature. Luckily, the Good Lord gave us a brain and consciousness so that we may break free of our primitive nature and basic instincts. Though, when you look around in society, it's obviosly more challenging for some than others.
@Amos_Umwhat said:
....created by their own kind...
That's racist.
Tribal is more like it. Tribal and cliquish is our primitive nature. Luckily, the Good Lord gave us a brain and consciousness so that we may break free of our primitive nature and basic instincts. Though, when you look around in society, it's obviosly more challenging for some than others.
Yep. Haters can always find a reason to hate. In todays society they are reverting to an old trick, hating the haters. Which, ultimately, makes one a hater, no better than any other hater.
Dave Chappelle did a great sketch about dealing with one of his producers, I think, in which he was called on the carpet for using derogatory terms for homosexuals in his skits. He pointed out that he used "the N word" all the time and she wasn't complaining about that. "Well," she said, "Dave, you're not gay!". After a long pause he replied "I'm not a N...., either". Dave's freaking brilliant! I love that guy.
So, obviously, when I pointed out "that's racist", I'm being somewhat facetious. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to start applying labels, even to those to whom they do not truly apply. Sadly, the majority of people are too undereducated and provincial not to fall for the labelling. Try being an American soldier in South Korea and just walking into some restaurant that doesn't cater to Americans. "Get out! No round eye Americans in here!" This was my fathers experience when he was in Korea, and my sons as well in the late 1990's.
It disturbs me that so many in our country are falling for these old ploys. Too many of our countrymen seem to believe that America is the source of racism, and that it doesn't really exist elsewhere. As you pointed out, it is rooted in our tribal nature, and may I add that it exists everywhere, in every culture, in every nation, in every religion, universally, as far as the human race has penetrated the world, and if we ever get off this ball of mud, we'll take it with us.
Probably why the Aliens won't let us leave.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are (exaggerated features and stereotypes). If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
This is why I said **many ** were created in an endearing fashion. I do realize that that are ways that people use this medium to denigrate others such as in political satire.
However, I do stand by my opinion that, for example, Aunt Jamima was used not to disparage any one or group, but to imply a higher quality in their product. At the time it was introduced, a slave named Nancy Green was hired to be the spokesperson for the syrup.
The company later updated the look of Aunt Jamima to not be as offensive or appearing to be insensitive.
I just find it ironic that instead of being able to honor Ms. Green, the company is forced to remove her completely from their branding. We should not try to forget, erase and whitewash our past, but instead remember, learn and grow from it.
Exactly! At that time, that was progressive inclusion of African-Americans into mainstream culture, a thing to be praised and desired. Todays racists have turned it into something ugly so that they can continue to manipulate the public by stirring up hate. Heaven forbid that we see it for what it really was when racist politicians can use that newly generated hatred to further their own careers.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@VegasFrank said:
The pendulum always swings back the other way....
Sad but true
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Amos_Umwhat these are all fair points based on 100% logical fact, but your fine point of distinction is lost in the dull truth of the modern world.
Effective argumentation in involves ethos and pathos, as well as logos, and your cold fact argument has no sizzle in the modern world.
Not trying to resurrect this portion of the thread, but I have to tell, this really made me laugh. A few years ago there was some contention, the cause of which I do not remember, at the hospital where I worked. I made what I thought was a well considered argument and came up with a solution, which promptly fell flat.
Discussing it later with one of the MD's, he looked at me and shook his head. "Steve," he said "your reductionist logic was unassailable and your solution was undoubtedly the best one offered. However, you failed to cater to the cherished prejudices of the women you work with, therefore your arguments were barely heard, much less evaluated or acknowledged."
He was right, of course. It seems a lesson hard for me to learn.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Amos_Umwhat these are all fair points based on 100% logical fact, but your fine point of distinction is lost in the dull truth of the modern world.
Effective argumentation in involves ethos and pathos, as well as logos, and your cold fact argument has no sizzle in the modern world.
Not trying to resurrect this portion of the thread, but I have to tell, this really made me laugh. A few years ago there was some contention, the cause of which I do not remember, at the hospital where I worked. I made what I thought was a well considered argument and came up with a solution, which promptly fell flat.
Discussing it later with one of the MD's, he looked at me and shook his head. "Steve," he said "your reductionist logic was unassailable and your solution was undoubtedly the best one offered. However, you failed to cater to the cherished prejudices of the women you work with, therefore your arguments were barely heard, much less evaluated or acknowledged."
He was right, of course. It seems a lesson hard for me to learn.
Seems to apply in all walks of life that I've experienced...
Comments
>
Not arguing, I agree with most of what you said above, but as a fine point of distinction I have to say you may have missed the mark here. I'm currently reading a book titled "Glencoe", which is in fact my family history. Clan MacDonald, like all Highland clans as well as the Irish, considered themselves to be a different race than the English or French, etc. The Gael, as in the root of Gaelic.
My own family is distinguished by the name McConnell, which is used only by the clan chieftains and their direct descendants in Clan MacDonald, as it indicates direct lineage from Conell, or Coneil, or any of the other various spellings. This is the warrior chief who drove the Vikings out of the clan lands in both Scotland and Ireland, the family holding lands on both sides of the water, as well as the Hebrides. The kilt being worn by the Gael, and not, for instance, the Angles.
Interestingly, the MacDonald clan were actually Vikings themselves who had settled into Scotland a few centuries before. The English certainly considered them, as well as the Irish, to be a different race than themselves. When they perpetrated the genocide against the Highlanders those of my family name who weren't killed or run out of the country had their ears lopped off and were sold as slaves into the West Indies. The ear cropping was so that they couldn't pass themselves off as "white" people, ie English. My mother's people were MacGregors, who fared even worse.
And, of course, recent history has shown the Germans to have considered themselves a different race, as in "master race".
My true point and contention in all this silliness is this: we are one race, human.
Since that is what I truly believe, it is my thought that we should quit all this "racist" nonsense, put it behind us, and stop letting the powerful delude us with their manipulations. Another point on which we're in 100% agreement, I think.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@CtheHam interesting point. Big business is ultimately ruled by the almighty dollar, and if a company like Mars thinks that they're going to sell one fewer box of instant rice, then they're going to let the loud minority rule the day. I think that Quaker oats cat is going to meet his maker in the next 10 years.
@Amos_Umwhat these are all fair points based on 100% logical fact, but your fine point of distinction is lost in the dull truth of the modern world. The modern world does not see Norwegians, Englishmen, Aryans, Slovaks, or any other ethnicity within the Caucasian realm as a different race today--not even the mediterraneans with their olive colored skin. That might be technically inaccurate or practically inaccurate, but it is just the way it is.
Effective argumentation in involves ethos and pathos, as well as logos, and your cold fact argument has no sizzle in the modern world.
So, I guess my reparations check is NOT in the mail. Oh well, c'est la vie. Lol.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Back to cigarbage, this is illegal in California and new York.
Do away with logos, advertising, colors and everything else. Go back to the 1970’s dull generic labeling. Black print on white background. Oh, wait.......
You have to admit that those mascots aren't caricatures of disrespect. Some of the others are (exaggerated features and stereotypes). If the others were created by their own kind I'm sure they would look their best as well and statesman like, as Quaker and such. We tend to be more favorable to our own and more critical of others. It's human nature. You have to consciously be aware and it's not always natural or easy.
...and I'm sure they'd have a headdress too...
Of course, but done with pride and reverence, not ridicule or unconscious bias. Big difference.
Made with love like mom's chocolate chip cookies...that look just like every other chocolate chip cookie ever made!
We should cancel mascots
And rocket ships. All Phallic shaped and gender biased.
....created by their own kind...
That's racist.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Tribal is more like it. Tribal and cliquish is our primitive nature. Luckily, the Good Lord gave us a brain and consciousness so that we may break free of our primitive nature and basic instincts. Though, when you look around in society, it's obviosly more challenging for some than others.
Yep. Haters can always find a reason to hate. In todays society they are reverting to an old trick, hating the haters. Which, ultimately, makes one a hater, no better than any other hater.
Dave Chappelle did a great sketch about dealing with one of his producers, I think, in which he was called on the carpet for using derogatory terms for homosexuals in his skits. He pointed out that he used "the N word" all the time and she wasn't complaining about that. "Well," she said, "Dave, you're not gay!". After a long pause he replied "I'm not a N...., either". Dave's freaking brilliant! I love that guy.
So, obviously, when I pointed out "that's racist", I'm being somewhat facetious. I'm just pointing out how easy it is to start applying labels, even to those to whom they do not truly apply. Sadly, the majority of people are too undereducated and provincial not to fall for the labelling. Try being an American soldier in South Korea and just walking into some restaurant that doesn't cater to Americans. "Get out! No round eye Americans in here!" This was my fathers experience when he was in Korea, and my sons as well in the late 1990's.
It disturbs me that so many in our country are falling for these old ploys. Too many of our countrymen seem to believe that America is the source of racism, and that it doesn't really exist elsewhere. As you pointed out, it is rooted in our tribal nature, and may I add that it exists everywhere, in every culture, in every nation, in every religion, universally, as far as the human race has penetrated the world, and if we ever get off this ball of mud, we'll take it with us.
Probably why the Aliens won't let us leave.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
we are all bozos on this bus
And who's to say the aliens aren't even bigger bigots than we are?
I do.
This is why I said **many ** were created in an endearing fashion. I do realize that that are ways that people use this medium to denigrate others such as in political satire.
However, I do stand by my opinion that, for example, Aunt Jamima was used not to disparage any one or group, but to imply a higher quality in their product. At the time it was introduced, a slave named Nancy Green was hired to be the spokesperson for the syrup.
The company later updated the look of Aunt Jamima to not be as offensive or appearing to be insensitive.
I just find it ironic that instead of being able to honor Ms. Green, the company is forced to remove her completely from their branding. We should not try to forget, erase and whitewash our past, but instead remember, learn and grow from it.
Exactly! At that time, that was progressive inclusion of African-Americans into mainstream culture, a thing to be praised and desired. Todays racists have turned it into something ugly so that they can continue to manipulate the public by stirring up hate. Heaven forbid that we see it for what it really was when racist politicians can use that newly generated hatred to further their own careers.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
The pendulum always swings back the other way....
Sad but true
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Not trying to resurrect this portion of the thread, but I have to tell, this really made me laugh. A few years ago there was some contention, the cause of which I do not remember, at the hospital where I worked. I made what I thought was a well considered argument and came up with a solution, which promptly fell flat.
Discussing it later with one of the MD's, he looked at me and shook his head. "Steve," he said "your reductionist logic was unassailable and your solution was undoubtedly the best one offered. However, you failed to cater to the cherished prejudices of the women you work with, therefore your arguments were barely heard, much less evaluated or acknowledged."
He was right, of course. It seems a lesson hard for me to learn.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
that's why governance relies on politics and why it also often fails.
Seems to apply in all walks of life that I've experienced...
It looks like @Bob_Luken decided to sew his two kayaks together
Edible gold cigar wraps. Let me know when you figure that one out.
Gold cigar wraps? Created for bosses? Not for cigars. Not for bosses. But that big perfecto looks like it'd paddle fast.
Wow, supreme AND limited edition?
$50 for a 2,000 cigar humidor? What's the catch?
Trapped in the People's Communits Republic of Massachusetts.