Hmmmm

laker1963

Last update - 21:34 17/12/2009 Hesder rabbis: Torah law is above the army By Chaim Levinson, Haaretz Settlements Correspondent Tags: hesder yeshivas, Israel news Rabbis and teachers from Hesder yeshivas, which offer Torah studies alongside military service, released a letter to students in which they reiterated their assertion that soldiers must refuse orders if they are commanded to evacuate settlements, arguing that Torah law is above the Israel Defense Forces. The letter emphasizes the importance of enlisting to the military, but instructs soldiers to adhere to Jewish law when it conflicts with orders handed down from superiors. This letter comes as yeshiva heads closed ranks around Rabbi Eliezer Melamed, whose declarations in support of soldier insubordination caused Defense Minister Ehud Barak to oust his Har Bracha yeshiva from its hesder arrangement with the IDF. Advertisement "Unfortunately, the IDF has been used for purposes unrelated to Israel's defense and directly opposed to God's wishes for quite some time," the rabbis wrote in the letter. "This situation faces IDF soldiers with a contradiction between Jewish commandments and commanders' orders." "We are committed to teach that loyalty to the lord comes before any other loyalty, whether to the army or to the government," the rabbis went on to say. The document concluded with the rabbis' assertion that they are guiding their students to "be loyal soldiers through their commitment to the word of God." Earlier Thursday, Knesset speaker Reuven Rivlin addressed the rift between the IDF and the hesder yeshivas, calling on Barak to devise a solution and to avoid political motives.

mustluvcigars

I thought it was common knowledge that Israeli soldiers had the right to refuse orders

kuzi16

seriously, what is up with all your Israel posts? get to your point.

laker1963

I have posted things from various sources which I have come across while reading various sources of online News information.
You have decided to respond to only certain ones which is your right.
If the Canadian content doesn't interest you but another topic does, that's great.
I will continue to post as I see fit, and if you see something you want to comment on... great. These are not MY OPINIONS, I have taken every one of them from several online new sources and have cut and pasted them or links to the original stories, and these include pro Israeli sources. I DO NOT claim to agree with any of these individual stories, but I am interested in them. I find them informative and maybe some here (you) would like to comment. If you take a moment, you will have noticed that I have not and do not intend to add anything to these stories, I will continue to let them speak for themselves and those responsible for their original opinions, which these are a reproduction of.
It's just news, period, sorry if you don't like the topics I find interesting. Please feel free to say so. Have a happy holiday season.

kuzi16

ya just had me confused.

clearlysuspect

Rabbi Eliezer Melamed:

"This situation faces IDF soldiers with a contradiction between Jewish commandments and commanders' orders."

"We are committed to teach that loyalty to the lord comes before any other loyalty, whether to the army or to the government," the rabbis went on to say.

When I joined the Navy and went to RTC, Recruit Training Command, in Great Lakes, Michigan, they took us through this large classroom for a moment which they called "The Moment of Truth." This moment was supposed to be a time when anyone could come forward and speak up about anything they were not completely honest about at MEPPS on the paperwork they had filled out and they would send them back to get it straightened out.

The Moment of Truth is completely irrelevant to this story. What is relevant is the lone poster hanging on the way in this huge room, a poster I always remember thoughout my enlistment. It read:

5 PRIORITIES OF A SAILOR
GOD
COUNTRY
FAMILY
SHIPMATE
SELF


Believe it or not, in a not so direct manner, our military teaches the same thing as Rabbi Eliezer Melamed.

At one moment during my enlistment I was called to stand in front of the Captain for disobeying a lawful order because I was standing up for my beliefs and what I believe to be right, and I simply sited the 5 Priorities of a Sailor and the Captain found that I had done nothing wrong.

Vulchor

Very interesting Laker. Seems this could be a problem for any military man or woman of any religion, and if they were religious-----definately a good question. However, it would seem to me that if you have trouble with the job (whioch is what being in the fighting force is)---you should probably be looking for an occupation elsewhere instead of putting your fellow soldiers and the military infrastructure in jeopardy. Another example I think, of the issues we dont address with Isreal that may deserve a little discussion.

gmill880

Vulchor:

Very interesting Laker. Seems this could be a problem for any military man or woman of any religion, and if they were religious-----definately a good question. However, it would seem to me that if you have trouble with the job (whioch is what being in the fighting force is)---you should probably be looking for an occupation elsewhere instead of putting your fellow soldiers and the military infrastructure in jeopardy. Another example I think, of the issues we dont address with Isreal that may deserve a little discussion.

Discuss with Isreal or amongst ourselves ? Are you suggesting we have the right to address with Isreal (a sovereign nation) what their military regulations should require/not require ...not trying to be a smart-ass ...just asking for clarification to understand your position.

Vulchor

I think we discuss military stragedy and what we expect from a moral perspective with all out allies, and this is something that could likewise be addressed behind closed doors. I am sure our allies had somethings to say about waterboarding, ect. in private and I think that could also be true here. Not saying the two are the same, but I think that what we have done historically for this soverign nation gives us a good relationship with them, but also a certain ability voice a concern.

gmill880

Looking at it from that perspective I agree ...