The Lab: Water Pillows

dutyje

Alright.. So I made a claim in another thread that water pillows are not a very reliable source of humidity maintenance. I ran a test which was validly disputed. I am going to use this thread to post the results of a test, which I will conduct at some point in the near future.

I'd go ahead and start this test right now, but I just put a bunch of sticks in my humidor this afternoon, and I need my hygrometer to monitor the stabilization of the environment over the next day or two. By Sunday, I expect to launch the test.

For this test, I will put 5 cigars in a cigar.com ziploc bag -- the same way I received them, although they aren't all the same cigars. I will put a charged water pillow into the ziploc along with the cigars and the hygrometer, and I will leave a reasonable amount of air in the bag.

I will then stick this bag in my 72-degree closet (ok.. it's actually a 72-74 degree closet), and I will monitor the humidity regularly over the course of five days. I'd go longer, but I want to get my hygrometer back in my humidor.

This work for everybody? Also, I will use the min/max feature of my hygrometer to monitor the humidity and temperature ranges during the experiment. I may even post live results as they come in. Or I may not... depends how bored I am and how often I work from home next week

Smoke=Fire

Do it...FOR SCIENCE!!

kuzi16

sounds like a plan.

madurofan

Great plan! Just make sure to thoroughly check the baggie for leaks. Hmm might run this same test I could put them in my fridge which maintains a perfect 65*.

kuzi16

madurofan:

Great plan! Just make sure to thoroughly check the baggie for leaks. Hmm might run this same test I could put them in my fridge which maintains a perfect 65*.

good call

dutyje

I filled all 3 of my cigar.com ziplocs from shipping, and all three will leak air if squeezed.

We've got several options here:

1. I can continue the experiment with one of those bags, filled with 5 sticks.
2. I can use a similar-sized (slightly smaller) ziploc from a competitor's (gasp!) shipment with 4 sticks and a pillow
3. I can put 7 sticks in a store-bought ziploc (10.5 in x 10.5 in) with a pillow.
4. I've got a 137 cubic-inch (Glad brand) tupperware container. I can put in 8 sticks and a pillow for the test.
The water pillows are supposedly good for 15-25 cigars, so none of these tests should cause any strain on the pillow. I've also got 3 pillows (but only one hygrometer).
One advantage of the bag-tests is that I can reset my min/max counters without opening the bag. One advantage of the tupperware test is that it may become my overflow tupperdor solution
Thinking about it, I'm leaning toward using the original cigar.com ziploc for the first test, running it for three days, and then running subsequent tests from there using containers with a better seal. The thing I like about the cigar.com bag is that it does at least breathe a little, so it may actually provide a decent long-term storage solution if the pillows work.

madurofan

Go with the susequent tests idea.

kuzi16

madurofan:

Go with the susequent tests idea.

agreed.

dutyje

OK... I just set up the first test. My humidor is already well-stabilized, so I'm comfortable swiping the hygrometer for a few days.

I'm using a cigar.com ziploc bag, which I have already tested to show it does not create a 100% airtight seal. I have a well-charged pillow in the bag, along with the following cigars:
2 Camacho 1962 Churchill
1 Bolivar Churchill
1 Gurkha Royal Brigade

I realize this is 4 sticks instead of 5, but adding the Onyx Reserve Torbusto would have been a bit overcrowded. I will get my first temperature and humidity reading this evening, and I will reset the hygrometer and report another reading, along with min and max info, in the morning. I will continue to monitor this through Monday and post up the final results.

madurofan

AH! The test is flawed! Everyone knows Gurkha's suck and being that they suck so much they will necessarily draw more than its share of humidity causing the RH to be lower than it should be. Damned Gurkha's .

dutyje

Good point.. I would have thrown in my RP Vin 92 Churchill to balance that out, but that has no cello, and I don't want to shuffle that around too much. I smoked my other two RP's

urbino

You could put a Dutch Master in there. Everyone knows they blow, which should offset the sucking.

madurofan

urbino:

You could put a Dutch Master in there. Everyone knows they blow, which should offset the sucking.

LMAO!!!!

I hope everyone know I was just kidding about the Gurkha's I just ordered soem G3's and some Triple Ligero's that I'm pretty stoked about.

dutyje

Alright.. I took an initial reading and we're already at 73 degrees, 68% humidity.. right in the wheelhouse for those pillows. This is the coolest part of my house, and it's normally between 72 and 74 degrees. It's also where I keep my humi. I think if I were to buy a larger humidor I'd have to move to a different part of the country, or go the wine cooler route.

madurofan

Wine cooler is the way to go. I'm in Va Beach man I fell your pain.

urbino

I think I'm going to break down and get one before my raincheck for last month's sale at Target expires. My humis consistently read in the low 70 degree range. I haven't had a problem so far, but better safe than sorry.

kuzi16

if you have cigars from reputable makers you shouldnt have a problem with beetles. they fumigate. however... If you are like me and your dad sends you crap every now and then... id worry a bit more. (well, i dont. i send those guys to the deep freeze)

urbino

Yeah, I don't worry about the beetles so much as things like mold or mildew. For about 3 mos. out of the year it is just sooo bleedin' hot here, even at night, the humi might never drop below 75 degrees.

Then I weigh that against the stogies I could buy for the same money and think, "Well, I haven't had a problem so far..."

dutyje

Tonight's measurement:

72 degrees, 69% rH

Min Temp: 72
Max Temp: 73

Min rH: 67%
Max rH: 69%

Perfect so far (get off my case about temps.. this is a humidity experiment). Welcome to the south. I'm resetting the min/max counters with each measurement.. I'll check again at least a couple times tomorrow.

Capt

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but don't you think that the water pillow company has a research and develpoment department? I don't think they manufactured this item and decided to sell with without any of their own test. Just my .02

kuzi16

capt, this item is used to ship cigars and for short term use only. if im not mistaken i believe this is a test for more of a long term storage.

i have, however, been known to be wrong.

dutyje

Advice was given in another thread that water pillows could be used as a storage solution in lieu of beads or PG in a tupperdor. I had previously conducted a test of the water pillows in a bag, and found that the humidity shot above 80% and stayed there. It was suggested that I try the experiment again, using cigars instead of an empty bag. So far, everything looks outstanding. If it works well in my bag experiment, I will try pillows in a larger tupperdor.

I agree that the manufacturer has no doubt tested the item extensively, but I raised the question because of the poor performance I witnessed in an empty bag test. Besides, I'm having fun

This morning's reading:

Temp: 72
rH: 70%

Min Temp: 72
Max Temp: 73

Min rH: 68%
Max rH: 70%

vankleekkw

I have been using the water pillows in my small Humi's for months and they are very very consistant. I only fill them for about 10 seconds because I don't want 70%

dutyje

OK.. Now for the part of the experiment where I regret throwing a $15 stick in the bag.

I just took this evening's measurement:

Temp: 73
rH: 73%

Min Temp: 73
Max Temp: 73

Min rH: 70%
Max rH: 73%

If this humidity rise keeps up much longer, I may need to abort before the 5th day of the trial.

dutyje

Getting worse this morning:

Temp: 73
rH: 74%

Min Temp: 72
Max Temp: 73

Min rH: 71%
Max rH: 74%

This isn't exactly confidence inspiring with respect to long-term storage. It's not even been 48 hours, and the humidity has already climbed to 74%.

kuzi16

maybe the next experament should be how long the bag can hold RH WITHOUT the pillow. maybe shipping cigars with it is not such a good thing if within 48 hours we are up to 75%. thats higher than just about everybody keeps their cigars.

dutyje

Alright, I have to pull the plug on this little experiment. I just went upstairs to take another measurement, and I can't keep my cigars in this environment any longer. They're going into quarantine for a bit. Here are the final readings:

Temp: 73
rH: 77%

Min Temp: 73
Max Temp: 73

Min rH: 74%
Max rH: 77%

I like the idea of running a test with cigars in an airtight container. I don't have the inventory right now, and I need to bring these 4 test sticks back under control over the next few weeks. One of the Camachos feel a touch mushy compared to their brethren in the humi, but the Gurkha and Bolivar are still in great shape.

shehan

I've done this test already and it works.

my humi was overflowing so i took a ziplock.. threw in the overflow with the cigar.com pillows i get from COTM and my digital humi..

works like a charm.

dutyje

I don't understand what's wrong with my pillows. Maybe a bad pillow? I don't get it. I'm going to need a tupperdor by next week, so I'll be relying on my hygrometer and some pillows for a while. If it's problematic, I'll grab some beads.

kuzi16

it may not be the pillow. it may be very saturated. however, the above statement of "ive done tis experament and it works like a charm" was just disproven. the real test is if several of us perform the test and we all have the same results. science is also about being able to reproduce a result. we have one for now, and one against. anyone else wanna take part?

i may have to start tomorrow.. ..

vankleekkw

I only have a water pillow in each of my 20ct Humi's with consistant results. Don't oversaturate them, I keep mine to only be about 1/4 full. When they arrive from C.Com they look like they are going to explode. The directions on the bag say to only fill them for 15 seconds.