Home Non Cigar Related

How do you justify this?

2

Comments

  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    phobicsquirrel:
    clearlysuspect:
    Laker, I really don't care what Israel and the Arabs do over there. I really don't care what your opinion is of it either. I don't care if you hate Jews, love Jews, hate Arabs, love Arabs, wear a purple thong while running through the streets on Easter! This topic does not "hit close to home" whatsoever like you imply. I'm just tired to seeing you day after day hide behind someone elses words. That's the only problem I have with your posts. If you got something to say, just say it. But countless people on this forum have told you over and over again that you're persistent bombing of this forum is getting annoying. How about just one thread that is dedicated to your thoughts and you can post all the news articles you want in your thread! Kinda like Puro's Rant!


    I'm tired of scrolling through all your spam to get to the threads I actually want to read!
    WTF? Laker is one of the few who actually has well thought out posts! Unlike what you just posted. Whether you care or not about what is going on over there you should as the united states has hundreds of troops involved thus WE are involved. I don't see "countless" people saying laker's bombing on this forum is annoying. I find the lack of intelligent posts are getting annoying just like the ONE you just POSTED! There are a few people on here who post annoying BS and laker is not one of them. BTW I don't have a problem with you or anyone on this forum personally but attacking a fellow friend and beloved member on here for something that is simply not true will get me fired up.
    Thanks Pheebs. I do post things on here at times that ARE of the sort that will get some people hot. It is with that exact intention that I copied this article. If Clearlysuspect has something to say about the contents of my posts... great. Any personal things he says is his right, if he chooses to go that route, and he should know that it runs off like water off a duck's back.
    He raised a few questions which were either already answered in the article or to which I replied and I think he didn't appreciate those responses. I have no problem with his personal comments, because I will only respond to comments about the article itself and will not defend my OWN OPINIONS unless I am giving them and not just reprinting another authors article. This one was taken from a Pro Israeli Newspaper BTW. Here is a link to the actual article...
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1134898.html
    I do appreciate the support but I want anyone who gets involed in this discussion to know that I am NOT looking to turn things around the forums into a FLAMING ZONE. Saying that, I will also NOT be shut up by a couple of people who would impose their will on others by carelessly throwing around "Buzz words" or politically hot phrases.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    We have heard your comments over and over in that regard, Still nothing about the actual issue in the article?
    i told you what i thought of it. i thought clearlysuspect summed things up. THAT IS MY COMMENT. I AGREE WITH THAT. why do i agree with that? because the posted article does not give all of the info. the points that CS made were some of the missing info. i have nothing else.


    you have yet to comment on your opinion on this article.


  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    I will also NOT be shut up by a couple of people who would impose their will on others by carelessly throwing around "Buzz words" or politically hot phrases.
    o hope you dont think i am trying to shut you up.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    No here is what makes sense Kuzi. You are AGAIN DEFLECTING. You are just beating this issue with the title format to death, and all the while you are as aware as I am that your intention is to NOT talk about the contents of the article.
    As always you have turned this into a Jewish thing despite my clear post as to my feelings on that.
    You now would have readers believe that you are being attacked? Is playing the victim something that works for you? This is NOT about YOU Kuzi, or about hating Jewish people, the Jewish religion or anything Jewish. Why is it that if this same situation was happening to anyone, anywhere other then in the occupied territories and including Israeli and Palestinian people that most people could agree that it is not fair for a PERSON to be treated this way?
    As soon as it involves Israeli and Palestinian people and Israelis look to be in the wrong, you want to discuss the correctness of my title selection. We have heard your comments over and over in that regard, Still nothing about the actual issue in the article?
    no... seriously. i dont want you to look like you hate jews. i dont think you do. with the nature of the articles and the titles of them some could believe that you do.
    when i suggest that you be a bit more careful with the words you use you attack me. i do not think i am a victim. it does not work for me. i am making a suggestion to make you not look like a ***. i dont want you to come off in that light. that is it. all i am saying is BE CAREFUL that what you are talking about in your last two sentences doesnt happen.


    damn....

    relax people.
    Your actually the one bringing it to a personal level kuzi. I never got that Doug was pushing any stance. Oh how I hate the PC in this world....
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    I retract my joking statement about the Holocaust. I just want it understood that I joined this forum to make friends, not enemies and I'm very opinionated about my views, as we all should be if we feel something is either just or unjust. I believe that when a topic of religous or racial views come up, it's a problem waiting to happen. People here have no idea just how hot of a topic this really is in the rest of the world. They are stuck in suburbia living their own lives, not thiniking of what else is going on. As for me personally, I think that the Israelis and Palestinians are both so damn stubborn that this will NEVER end. Its unfortunate that we have to waste our time bothering with their non-stop turf wars.
    Laker, I appreciate your openness and willingness to share, even if some of the content does not fit into my mold of what life should be like in the world. I just know that when I start to share my views, they will eventually offend someone, and I'm not on this board to do that.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    No here is what makes sense Kuzi. You are AGAIN DEFLECTING. You are just beating this issue with the title format to death, and all the while you are as aware as I am that your intention is to NOT talk about the contents of the article.
    As always you have turned this into a Jewish thing despite my clear post as to my feelings on that.
    You now would have readers believe that you are being attacked? Is playing the victim something that works for you? This is NOT about YOU Kuzi, or about hating Jewish people, the Jewish religion or anything Jewish. Why is it that if this same situation was happening to anyone, anywhere other then in the occupied territories and including Israeli and Palestinian people that most people could agree that it is not fair for a PERSON to be treated this way?
    As soon as it involves Israeli and Palestinian people and Israelis look to be in the wrong, you want to discuss the correctness of my title selection. We have heard your comments over and over in that regard, Still nothing about the actual issue in the article?
    no... seriously. i dont want you to look like you hate jews. i dont think you do. with the nature of the articles and the titles of them some could believe that you do.
    when i suggest that you be a bit more careful with the words you use you attack me. i do not think i am a victim. it does not work for me. i am making a suggestion to make you not look like a ***. i dont want you to come off in that light. that is it. all i am saying is BE CAREFUL that what you are talking about in your last two sentences doesnt happen.


    damn....

    relax people.
    This has nothing to do with the article. My opinions on the Jewish People have been stated, so I have no fear of them making me appear as a hater of Jewish people, thanks for your concern.
    When you suggest that I be more careful in what I say or how I say it, you cross a line which I will not tolerate. You again use the word attack? If I disagree with you it is an attack?
    You say you are trying to help me not look like a D ick by warning me to be careful with my words, you automatically are telling me that if I don't take your suggestion... I must be a D ick. THAT is offensive Kuzi. I know you are pashionate about certain topics, but where do you get off telling me what I should say and how it should be said to avoid looking like a D ick? To who, YOU? You can't be that arrogant really can you?
    This is my last word on ANYTHING which does not relate DIRECTLY to the article I copied here. All your deflecting will not succedd as I will bring it back to the main topic every time. Read this and comment to the author about his techniques, if you wish.
    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1134898.html
    I agree thou. We should all take a breath and get back to discussing the article.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    i can see how you would think this.
    I do have a history of putting my foot in my mouth.

    so, let me explain a bit.
    i am Hyper sensitive to this. I have actually been in fear for my safety simply because of the religion of my wife. when going to temple events we always have security. in the past there have been problems.
    Jewish hate does exist and people do like to point it out.
    i do not like it when people have taken it too far. (pulling the race card, ive seen it. not fun)
    i have a bit more respect for Laker than to think he is some sort of ****. outsiders, and those who dont frequent the political side of the forum may not understand what is going on. this combo of sensitivity and respect for laker prompted me to try (poorly at that) to press further and figure out why he was posting how he was posting instead of just out and out saying what i just said in the last selection you quoted.

    to me, the most frustrating part about this argument was my inability to say what i meant. i hope that makes a bit more sense.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    You say you are trying to help me not look like a D ick by warning me to be careful with my words, you automatically are telling me that if I don't take your suggestion... I must be a D ick. THAT is offensive Kuzi. I know you are pashionate about certain topics, but where do you get off telling me what I should say and how it should be said to avoid looking like a D ick? To who, YOU? You can't be that arrogant really can you?
    it seems that you are missing what i am saying. i dont want you to look like a *** to others. thats all.


    laker1963:
    I agree thou. We should all take a breath and get back to discussing the article
    that you have yet to comment on, but expect us to.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    dennisking:
    I retract my joking statement about the Holocaust. I just want it understood that I joined this forum to make friends, not enemies and I'm very opinionated about my views, as we all should be if we feel something is either just or unjust. I believe that when a topic of religous or racial views come up, it's a problem waiting to happen. People here have no idea just how hot of a topic this really is in the rest of the world. They are stuck in suburbia living their own lives, not thiniking of what else is going on. As for me personally, I think that the Israelis and Palestinians are both so damn stubborn that this will NEVER end. Its unfortunate that we have to waste our time bothering with their non-stop turf wars.
    Laker, I appreciate your openness and willingness to share, even if some of the content does not fit into my mold of what life should be like in the world. I just know that when I start to share my views, they will eventually offend someone, and I'm not on this board to do that.
    One would think by reading this that I pound on the Israeli / Palestinian issue daily for months on end.
    The truth is I have posted less then a half dozen articles very recently which deal in any way with the Mid-East crisis.
    I have posted other articles exactly the same way I did these about a few things going on in Canada and at the Climate conference. Kuzi (or others) did not respond to these articles. I suppose they were not of interest to them. This subject obviously is of interest to him and others. I don't see that as something which should be avoided, just because of strong feelings on either side of the issues.
    If the world does not start to discuss, and resolve to actually do something to bring this and other senseless / costly conflicts to an end, then we can be assured that our children will still be having these futile discussions on this issue the same way we are today. This whole thing has been going on for over 40 years on the ground, ( way more time Biblically speaking). It is time to have open discussions about the issues and to leave the personal emotions out of it. Logic and fairness never needs to concern themselves with personal human emotions, which have historically got in the way and have been manipulated by Religeous and Political Leaders to avoid settling this issue.
    Now that is a little of MY OWN OPINION, LOL.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    If the world does not start to discuss, and resolve to actually do something to bring this and other senseless / costly conflicts to an end, then we can be assured that our children will still be having these futile discussions on this issue the same way we are today. This whole thing has been going on for over 40 years on the ground, ( way more time Biblically speaking). It is time to have open discussions about the issues and to leave the personal emotions out of it. Logic and fairness never needs to concern themselves with personal human emotions, which have historically got in the way and have been manipulated by Religeous and Political Leaders to avoid settling this issue.
    Now that is a little of MY OWN OPINION, LOL.
    ... short reply.
    i agree.
    i am willing to discuss it more.
    i would also like you to be the leader of this discussion because you seem to have some sources.
    i also think the discussion needs a bit more form and order to it than dumping an article and nothing else.
    it would help me at least.



    shot post got long....

    Laker, sorry if why i was trying to say was a failure. my intent was not to disrespect, but rather to point out a view that may not have been foreseen by you.
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    If the world does not start to discuss, and resolve to actually do something to bring this and other senseless / costly conflicts to an end, then we can be assured that our children will still be having these futile discussions on this issue the same way we are today. This whole thing has been going on for over 40 years on the ground, ( way more time Biblically speaking). It is time to have open discussions about the issues and to leave the personal emotions out of it. Logic and fairness never needs to concern themselves with personal human emotions, which have historically got in the way and have been manipulated by Religeous and Political Leaders to avoid settling this issue.
    Now that is a little of MY OWN OPINION, LOL.
    ... short reply.
    i agree.
    i am willing to discuss it more.
    i would also like you to be the leader of this discussion because you seem to have some sources.
    i also think the discussion needs a bit more form and order to it than dumping an article and nothing else.
    it would help me at least.



    shot post got long....

    Laker, sorry if why i was trying to say was a failure. my intent was not to disrespect, but rather to point out a view that may not have been foreseen by you.
    No apology required Kuzi... you know that. You and I have had many of these types of discussions, and I take NONE of it personally. If I did it would be far too much for me to deal with, as I too am passionate about many issues, this one included. For me it is ALWAYS about PEOPLE. Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    There is no point in me posting my own opinions on this issue Kuzi because it is not useful, nor would it be popular or even reasonable, as it would not advance things one inch in terms of this discussion. Let me just throw out a hint here that I see a role for the UN and forced separation and imposed peace and the role of the US as both peace maker and Israeli military/political backer ending. As I see it, anything short of that is like peeing into the wind.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,806 ✭✭✭
    Kuzi, the way you correct people or try to "look out so they dont come off" a certain way is infuriating. Why would you think Laker or any other individual needs you to look out for the choice and type of their speech?? The amount of how highly you think of your opinions borders on the same lack of modesty that people hated about Barry Bonds. If you consider this personal Im sorry, but your need to make things personal, correct people, refuse to accept criticism, admit to when youre wrong, etc. borders on the absurd. Almost as absurd as the Isreali govt. restricting a free man from building his home.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    I wish I could pick a isolated area and build a house. And not pay tribute to the govt. Sucks really.
  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Jacksonville, FloridaPosts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    No, I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I don't like the threads. Yes, you're entitled to post whatever you want. You're entitled to title it however you want. You're entitled to say and think whatever you want. You're entitled to post posts about how you don't like my post about your post that I don't like.

    Things I'd like to see:

    Laker, lead the conversation. You want everyone elses opinion on this but refuse to share your own. What kind of conversation is that?

    It would be nice if you created a thread specifically toward your articles so that the "Things I Hate" thread does not keep getting pushed to the bottom as I really enjoy this thread.


    Furthermore, I resend my statement that I don't care about what's going on over there. Glen, you're right and at least on a basic human level I do very much feel for the innocent individuals who are being affected by this ongoing saga. However, on a political level, I stopped caring about it nearly a decade ago.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,806 ✭✭✭
    clearlysuspect:
    No, I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I don't like the threads. Yes, you're entitled to post whatever you want. You're entitled to title it however you want. You're entitled to say and think whatever you want. You're entitled to post posts about how you don't like my post about your post that I don't like.

    Things I'd like to see:

    Laker, lead the conversation. You want everyone elses opinion on this but refuse to share your own. What kind of conversation is that?

    It would be nice if you created a thread specifically toward your articles so that the "Things I Hate" thread does not keep getting pushed to the bottom as I really enjoy this thread.


    Furthermore, I resend my statement that I don't care about what's going on over there. Glen, you're right and at least on a basic human level I do very much feel for the innocent individuals who are being affected by this ongoing saga. However, on a political level, I stopped caring about it nearly a decade ago.
    Suspect, I think he stated he was just posting as a means of something for people to read and think about. He never asked for anyone elses opinion. HOWEVER, Im glad you like the things I hate thread:)
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    clearlysuspect:
    No, I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I don't like the threads. Yes, you're entitled to post whatever you want. You're entitled to title it however you want. You're entitled to say and think whatever you want. You're entitled to post posts about how you don't like my post about your post that I don't like.

    Things I'd like to see:

    Laker, lead the conversation. You want everyone elses opinion on this but refuse to share your own. What kind of conversation is that?

    It would be nice if you created a thread specifically toward your articles so that the "Things I Hate" thread does not keep getting pushed to the bottom as I really enjoy this thread.


    Furthermore, I resend my statement that I don't care about what's going on over there. Glen, you're right and at least on a basic human level I do very much feel for the innocent individuals who are being affected by this ongoing saga. However, on a political level, I stopped caring about it nearly a decade ago.
    Suspect... I have not refused to give my opinion. I stated that I didn't think my position mattered in all of this.
    I posted (and will continue to post) articles which I cut and pasted from a News Web-site, which I added a link to. I wanted to create some dialogue on the news article.
    I have no problem with stating that what the Israeli Govt. has done in this case and many others is WRONG. They are jerking this guy around, who only wants to build a house on his own property, which has been reduced down to less then a half acre because of the Israeli Govt. and its policy of humiliation and apartheid.
    There now my feelings on this are in print on the forums. How does that help?
    If you have "politically" stopped caring about this issue, why are you so bent out of shape about what I posted on this issue in the first place? Is it really just because I have bumped another post that you do like down the list?
  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Jacksonville, FloridaPosts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    If you have "politically" stopped caring about this issue, why are you so bent out of shape about what I posted on this issue in the first place? Is it really just because I have bumped another post that you do like down the list?
    Laker, I'm not bent out of shape about what you post. I'm bent out of shape about you posting something in a forum intended for people to engage in open conversation and refusing to engage in the coversation that you started. It's like this guy at work that I know who goes and gets two people all riled up at each other just so he can sit back and watch them fight.

    But more so than anything, yes it's mostly that I have to search more for the "Things I Hate" forum.

    ps.... thank you for sharing your opinion of the situation. I applaud you for taking a stance for one side or another. You're probably a better man than I for it.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    Just my opinion on this whole thing, I don't have a problem what so ever with these posts, they have brought up some good points. I admit it does seem like you have a bone to pick with Irael as of late, but thats your right. I don't agree with you totally, but I agree with you on several aspects of the conflict. That is not an issue though. I do see how posting them in one thread would not clutter up the non-cigar related section so much, but it's not up to us to demand you to do this. I think it would be considerate of you to, that's why I posted my "Rants" all under one thread, just so it doesn't dominate this section of the forum. But I raise a glass to you posting something to provoke some serious thought on a very serious issue Laker.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?

    Yes, I understand the proper meaning of the word. I just find when I declare myself a socialist, it gives me a chance to explain what I mean about what the word means to me. As for socialism being a form of government taking away rights things... I don't know. Socialism is the form of governmant I would like to see. However I qualify that by saying I mean real, true socialism where the economy and government is run by the people for the people. You know... what our forms of DEMOCRACY are really supposed to be in the US and Canada.
    Here and in the US we practice more of a Democratic Dictatorship. We are free to vote for whoever our Dictator will be, with an assurity of being able to renew his/her term or choose a new dictator. After vote day, it's basically "shut-up sit down and do as we tell you. IMO
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?
    vs corporate interest doing the very same thing? I find that a balance of govt and private interest is needed, though some places have extremes in either way.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    laker1963:
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?

    Yes, I understand the proper meaning of the word. I just find when I declare myself a socialist, it gives me a chance to explain what I mean about what the word means to me. As for socialism being a form of government taking away rights things... I don't know. Socialism is the form of governmant I would like to see. However I qualify that by saying I mean real, true socialism where the economy and government is run by the people for the people. You know... what our forms of DEMOCRACY are really supposed to be in the US and Canada.
    Here and in the US we practice more of a Democratic Dictatorship. We are free to vote for whoever our Dictator will be, with an assurity of being able to renew his/her term or choose a new dictator. After vote day, it's basically "shut-up sit down and do as we tell you. IMO
    sums it up.
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    laker1963:
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?

    Yes, I understand the proper meaning of the word. I just find when I declare myself a socialist, it gives me a chance to explain what I mean about what the word means to me. As for socialism being a form of government taking away rights things... I don't know. Socialism is the form of governmant I would like to see. However I qualify that by saying I mean real, true socialism where the economy and government is run by the people for the people. You know... what our forms of DEMOCRACY are really supposed to be in the US and Canada.
    Here and in the US we practice more of a Democratic Dictatorship. We are free to vote for whoever our Dictator will be, with an assurity of being able to renew his/her term or choose a new dictator. After vote day, it's basically "shut-up sit down and do as we tell you. IMO
    Then you want a true democracy. What we have in the US is not, nor has it ever been a democracy, it is a Republic. That is how our nation was formed. What you described is not socialism at all, but a true democracy.
  • LukoLuko Posts: 2,004
    Something about the article and some statements made here...Laker and at least one other referenced the "Israeli government" and the injustice it perpetuated on this Irsaeli Arab (not necessarily a Palestinian). The government is question was a local city council committee...

    To me, that's a little like saying the U.S. government was wrong for deciding to not put street lights in my community.

    I'm not necessarily defending the Israeli government (thought I certainly could), I'm just saying I don't think this article proves any larger point about the Israeli vs. Palestianian conflict except that discrimination by individuals or small, local governmental bodies exists (something that's already readily evident). I don't think the actions of this council are justifiable, but then again, neither are many of the actions of the Palestinians.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,806 ✭✭✭
    Luko:
    Something about the article and some statements made here...Laker and at least one other referenced the "Israeli government" and the injustice it perpetuated on this Irsaeli Arab (not necessarily a Palestinian). The government is question was a local city council committee...

    To me, that's a little like saying the U.S. government was wrong for deciding to not put street lights in my community.

    I'm not necessarily defending the Israeli government (thought I certainly could), I'm just saying I don't think this article proves any larger point about the Israeli vs. Palestianian conflict except that discrimination by individuals or small, local governmental bodies exists (something that's already readily evident). I don't think the actions of this council are justifiable, but then again, neither are many of the actions of the Palestinians.
    Of course not, but I think it helps to show the injustice toward the Palestinians, while our hearts and wallets continue to bleed for the Isreali's.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    Luko:
    Something about the article and some statements made here...Laker and at least one other referenced the "Israeli government" and the injustice it perpetuated on this Irsaeli Arab (not necessarily a Palestinian). The government is question was a local city council committee...

    To me, that's a little like saying the U.S. government was wrong for deciding to not put street lights in my community.

    I'm not necessarily defending the Israeli government (thought I certainly could), I'm just saying I don't think this article proves any larger point about the Israeli vs. Palestianian conflict except that discrimination by individuals or small, local governmental bodies exists (something that's already readily evident). I don't think the actions of this council are justifiable, but then again, neither are many of the actions of the Palestinians.
    street lights are important though, reduces crime and such.... so I say they could be wrong.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?
    vs corporate interest doing the very same thing? I find that a balance of govt and private interest is needed, though some places have extremes in either way.
    corporations cannot legally take away rights. if they take away rights, they have broken the law and should be punished. the roll of the government in this situation is to uphold the rights of the individual and dole out the punishment to the people in the corporation who are responsible for the violations of rights.
    i know what you are saying now that corporations are violating rights now and not getting punished. the government has failed when this occurs.
    .... but not to place proper regulations, rather to do the job they were intended to do. this is where we are now in the US. The government, save for a few good people, has lost sight of the fact that it was set up to allow freedom for individuals. how did it lose this goal?
    corruption.

    in a socialist society, history has shown that the government will take away the rights of at least some of the people. by the very nature of socialism, it will happen. you take away from the people that are productive and give to those who will not. this is a violation of your right to keep what you earn, provided you did not violate rights to earn it. (please keep in mind that i am not talking about the injured, the handicapped, or mentally ill. they are the ones who CANNOT, not the ones who actively WILL not. )
  • laker1963laker1963 Posts: 5,046
    kuzi16:
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?
    vs corporate interest doing the very same thing? I find that a balance of govt and private interest is needed, though some places have extremes in either way.
    corporations cannot legally take away rights. if they take away rights, they have broken the law and should be punished. the roll of the government in this situation is to uphold the rights of the individual and dole out the punishment to the people in the corporation who are responsible for the violations of rights.
    i know what you are saying now that corporations are violating rights now and not getting punished. the government has failed when this occurs.
    .... but not to place proper regulations, rather to do the job they were intended to do. this is where we are now in the US. The government, save for a few good people, has lost sight of the fact that it was set up to allow freedom for individuals. how did it lose this goal?
    corruption.

    in a socialist society, history has shown that the government will take away the rights of at least some of the people. by the very nature of socialism, it will happen. you take away from the people that are productive and give to those who will not. this is a violation of your right to keep what you earn, provided you did not violate rights to earn it. (please keep in mind that i am not talking about the injured, the handicapped, or mentally ill. they are the ones who CANNOT, not the ones who actively WILL not. )
    This thread has been morphed (as usual) into something which does NOT reflect what it started out as. Somehow (as usual) it has got turned around into a Govt./Business/Social policy issue. It is partially because of the way threads on here get steered away from some thorny issue's and ALWAYS become an arguement about the present form of government in the US, that I decided to start to add these stories on a regular basis.
    Looks like I will have to continue to add them. so as to try and keep the issue's of these stories front and center while others drive them around the block.
  • cabinetmakercabinetmaker Posts: 2,561
    We need a politics and law forum, or something similar. Just my .02..
  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Jacksonville, FloridaPosts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    laker1963:
    kuzi16:
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    laker1963:
    Some folks (here included) use the term Socialist as thou it is some kind of Badge of Shame that most will repel from. NOT ME. I wear it as a badge of Honor, as I ALWAYS put people first, so I am a Socialist. It has NO POLITICAL connections to me.
    i too put people first but i tend to look at the word "socialist" not as a "people first" thing, but more as a government taking away rights thing.

    does that make sense at all?
    vs corporate interest doing the very same thing? I find that a balance of govt and private interest is needed, though some places have extremes in either way.
    corporations cannot legally take away rights. if they take away rights, they have broken the law and should be punished. the roll of the government in this situation is to uphold the rights of the individual and dole out the punishment to the people in the corporation who are responsible for the violations of rights.
    i know what you are saying now that corporations are violating rights now and not getting punished. the government has failed when this occurs.
    .... but not to place proper regulations, rather to do the job they were intended to do. this is where we are now in the US. The government, save for a few good people, has lost sight of the fact that it was set up to allow freedom for individuals. how did it lose this goal?
    corruption.

    in a socialist society, history has shown that the government will take away the rights of at least some of the people. by the very nature of socialism, it will happen. you take away from the people that are productive and give to those who will not. this is a violation of your right to keep what you earn, provided you did not violate rights to earn it. (please keep in mind that i am not talking about the injured, the handicapped, or mentally ill. they are the ones who CANNOT, not the ones who actively WILL not. )
    This thread has been morphed (as usual) into something which does NOT reflect what it started out as. Somehow (as usual) it has got turned around into a Govt./Business/Social policy issue. It is partially because of the way threads on here get steered away from some thorny issue's and ALWAYS become an arguement about the present form of government in the US, that I decided to start to add these stories on a regular basis.
    Looks like I will have to continue to add them. so as to try and keep the issue's of these stories front and center while others drive them around the block.
    I thought this WAS a Govt./Business/Social policy issue conversation. Besides, you just posted an article and told us to talk amongst ourselves. Sorry you don't like the conversation. Maybe you should have set a direction for the conversation to begin with!
Sign In or Register to comment.