What is Terrorism Worth?
phobicsquirrel
Posts: 7,347 ✭✭✭
Check out this article! http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/us_security_airline_scanners
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Terrorism is nothing new and continuing to take away OUR privacy and freedom is exactly what terrorists want. The simple fact is you can't stop terrorism and I felt after 9-11 that what the US did with Airports was absolutely the wrong direction. These scanners in my opinion take what is already in place and makes it even worse. I haven't flown since getting out of the Army and I HATE TSA. They are Aholes and I've dealt with them on countless occasions; even threatened with being put in a room because I didn't want them to go through my PACKED army bag (those of you who are in know what it is like to pack them) and refused to open the lock. It took 20 some minutes of me standing their in full uniform talking to supervisor after supervisor. It wasn't until other people started yelling at the TSA that they stopped harassing me. I also dealt with them at our local airport while serving in the Air Guard. These things are not good. I really think that cameras, these devices and what we have to go through to pay out the Ass and now have our naked bodies on camera just to fly are just a beginning. Sad thing is, it's just not in the US... Anyone see the program on the History channel about security technologies know what and where this is all going.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Terrorism is nothing new and continuing to take away OUR privacy and freedom is exactly what terrorists want. The simple fact is you can't stop terrorism and I felt after 9-11 that what the US did with Airports was absolutely the wrong direction. These scanners in my opinion take what is already in place and makes it even worse. I haven't flown since getting out of the Army and I HATE TSA. They are Aholes and I've dealt with them on countless occasions; even threatened with being put in a room because I didn't want them to go through my PACKED army bag (those of you who are in know what it is like to pack them) and refused to open the lock. It took 20 some minutes of me standing their in full uniform talking to supervisor after supervisor. It wasn't until other people started yelling at the TSA that they stopped harassing me. I also dealt with them at our local airport while serving in the Air Guard. These things are not good. I really think that cameras, these devices and what we have to go through to pay out the Ass and now have our naked bodies on camera just to fly are just a beginning. Sad thing is, it's just not in the US... Anyone see the program on the History channel about security technologies know what and where this is all going.
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Comments
The reason for tighter airport securitly is more than obious - it's the easiest and quickest way to get to the US from out of the country. And, clearly, the security is not working.
I served in the Army the last 6 years and feel your pain when it comes to TSA attempting to search your bag you spent hours packing. But, seriously, they are doing their job. Whether I am in uniform or not doesn't give me the right to skip security. If they want to search my bag, go ahead - just don't let some 23 year old male flying in from Kenya skip security either. Yes, I support profiling of muslim/arabic males, and you should, too. If an extreme sect of bald men between the ages of 65 and 70 started blowing themselves up, I'd want all of them profiled, too.
It wouldnt bother me if security was even tighter. Now thats airport security on the US front. Now the wars over in Iraq and Afg are a different story all together. These are going to take far too long to address here at this time....
the basis for this rule stems from the Fourth Amendment that states:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
government orders to search everyone with a machine that can see through your clothes because you might be that one person to commit a crime seems to be in violation of the fourth amendment.
HISTORY TEST
Please pause a moment, reflect back, and take the following multiple choice
test. The events are actual events from history. They actually happened.
Do you remember?
1. 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by
a. Superman
b. Jay Leno
c. Harry Potter
d. a Muslim male extremist between the ages of 17 and 40
2. In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by
a. Olga Corbett
b. Sitting Bull
c. Arnold Schwarzenegger
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
3. In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by:
a. Lost Norwegians
b. Elvis
c. A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
4. During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
a. John Dillinger
b. The King of Sweden
c. The Boy Scouts
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
5. In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
a. A pizza delivery boy
b. Pee Wee Herman
c. Geraldo Rivera
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
6. In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by:
a. The Smurfs
b. Davy Jones
c. The Little Mermaid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
7. In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy diver trying
to rescue passengers was murdered by:
a. Captain Kidd
b. Charles Lindberg
c. Mother Teresa
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
8. In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
a. Scooby Doo
b. The Tooth Fairy
c. Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
9. In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
a. Richard Simmons
b. Grandma Moses
c. Michael Jordan
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
10. In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
a. Mr. Rogers
b. Hillary Clinton, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
c. The World Wrestling Federation
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
11. On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to
take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into
the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers.
Thousands of people were killed by:
a. Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck and Elmer Fudd
b. The Supreme Court of Florida
c. Mr. Bean
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
12. In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
a. Enron
b. The Lutheran Church
c. The NFL
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
13. In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
a. Bonnie and Clyde
b. Captain Kangaroo
c. Billy Graham
d. Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40
Nope, I really don't see a pattern here to justify profiling, do you? So, to
ensure we Americans never offend anyone, particularly fanatics' intent on
killing us, airport security screeners will no longer be allowed to profile
certain people. They must conduct random searches of 80-year-old women,
little kids, airline pilots with proper identification, secret agents who
are members of the President's security detail, 85-year old Congressmen with
metal hips, and Medal of Honor winner and former Governor Joe Foss, but
leave Muslim Males between the ages 17 and 40 alone lest they be guilty of
profiling.
As the writer of the award winning story "Forrest Gump" so aptly put it,
"Stupid is as stupid does."
And guess who just bombed London ?
"should"
last time i checked, the US constitution didnt mean much in Canada.
what about oklahoma city bombings?
the shooting of JFK?
MLK?
the Branch Dividian?(sp?)
i see your point here. i see the trends.
here is a thought:
the number of terrorists that are Muslim seems to be disproportionately high compared to terrorists from other cultures.
flip it around a bit. what percentage of Muslims are terrorists?
im sure it is far smaller than .1% given the 1.6 billion people in the world that follow Islam
the government mandating airlines to use that machine is the part thats the problem. i agree dogs are effective. the government mandating that machine is telling a private company how to run their business.
if the government didnt mandate security, im sure after 9/11 airlines themselves would be upping security just to hold up business. if that were the case you could chose what airline you felt violated your rights less, then a ticket would be you waiving your rights.
Profiling... Eh, I'm sort of torn on it. Sure you can take what is the average and base an opinion on it but here's the thing does it really work and is it worth the price? Now I don't know all the details but here is something I have seen a few times in my area. While on a walk my wife and I saw 2 cop cars pull in front and back of a black man while he was walking. Now I'm no expert but he was walking normally, dressed fairly nice and looked more stunned than anything. I've seen a few other occasions that same thing happen. Now I feel that it was profiling of sorts. I know it's done in far more instances than that but like what Kuzi said, if there is probably cause to search or stop you then okay but if there is not then don't. Now what that probable cause is and to what a person has to fight it is another thing.
I personally feel in more danger from drug dealers, everyday criminals and such than from some terrorist. My GOD! How many people die or severely hurt a year from killings or robbery's or even sexual assaults? How many people die in our Military from wars? And how many people die from a terror attack? Ummmmmm, well those numbers will speak for themselves. Terror attacks will happen, and there really isn't anything govt can do except for using intel to fight it. Locking up it's citizens and forcing them (of which most are law abiding) to undergo more and more security measures. Let's face it, shampoo bottles, lighters, and pocket knives get confiscated at airports? Really those are things a lot of use so WTF? You could as easily use a banana to hold up a plane if used right. You could kill someone with your hands. And you can make a gun out of basic materials and you don't have to be a genius. All I'm saying that is if you keep losing your freedom and rights what is the point of fighting terror or fear? When I deal with home alarms I ask people why they have them and most say for intruders. They say that they feel safer. Well I can understand, they are loud and most of the times will alert the police but what if the intruder knows how to stop or disable them? Knowing how to take care of yourself is probably a more important investment. Now sure I will probably get one, just because of the attention they bring but that would be it. I know how to take care of myself but what I'm saying is the mentality of what most tell me. Oh it will alert someone, well what if it doesn't? Most of these people would be fair game. The illusion of safety has taken a lot of people over. We really need to get back to our roots as we were back in the early days though I doubt that will ever happen. We as a society are weak no doubt.
Honestly guy's, not trying to beat a dead horse but... doesn't anybody else see the connection between the discussion going on here, and the issues in the Middle East?
IMO terrorism (I hate that term) aimed at the US by Muslims, or Islamic Fundamentalists has a DIRECT link to the US's position on Mid East affairs, and the perceived unfairness of the "Peace process". Maybe machines and technology are doing more to perpetuate this situation then what could be acheived by a more balanced and fair approach to solving the Mid East situation. Just my opinion.
i guess thats the disconnect for me.
this doesnt even cover the fact that this "option" isnt really an "option". it WILL force companies to change their health care and how it works or to drop it all together.
when it comes to health care you always complain that companies run your life, however when the government does the EXACT same thing you are all for it.
you feel that it is OK to take, by force via the IRS, from the rich and redistribute for what feels right. that is what you are saying by being for government run health care.
theft, from anyone, for any reason, is immoral.
if you dont, you clearly feel that they provide a service that is worth your money.
or switch to a company that has better service, or a better price. you still have a right to any of those things. but you wont for long, with the MANDATE in the bill that passed that you buy insurance.
...insurance that will cost more than ever before because of other provisions in the bill.
but wasnt this thread about terrorism?
or is it always about individual rights?
For example, my best friend who works with me is with his GF who has 2 kids but is on state assistance, gets food stamps and gets free healthcare (oregon health plan). She just finished up her 4 year degree and is in the first year of dental school. Now my friend and I make decent money, not rich but well off. If they got married she no longer would get all the assistance and therefore she would not be able to get any schooling done and they would be broke, very broke but not enough for aide. They pay 1400 dollars a month for child care, school is expensive, more so now since she is in the dental program and they keep making her pay for supplies that are very expensive on short notice (like she had to shell out 650 bucks for a drill). And let's not forget about healthcare and a place to live. It does suck having to pay for services that I don't need or can't qualify even though my wife and I would like to have medicare or medicaid but I know that it's there if I ever need it and it does do good things.