Border debate

dirtdude
Posts: 6,201 ✭✭✭✭✭
Not sure which side of the wall everybody is on but I am a frequent(weekly) border crosser at a rather small border checkpoint and this week there was a group of families(30 people) waiting to cross, first time in 6 years I have seen this. Have seen the news about caravans and all. Do you think the caravan folks are being persecuted in their homeland or is this a political ploy.
A little dirt never hurt
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Without getting into which side of the issue I'm on, caravans are a very common way for immigrants to travel so they don't get robbed or raped on their journey. safety in numbers.0
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So often, in human affairs, diametrically opposed propositions are equally true in the same time and place. When this happens, people are inevitably asked to select just one side of the conundrum as an either/or. Case in point:
dirtdude said:Do you think the caravan folks are being persecuted in their homeland or is this a political ploy.
The answer to which is plainly "both".
a) People flee schidtholes. Can't blame 'em.
b) Dems and their media minions see illegals as votes.
I think it remarkable that 35 years ago Cesar Chavez, an immigrant, maintained the border ought to be closed, because the continual influx of braceros made it impossible for naturalized Americans to demand a living wage in the fields.
( Note that nobody called Cesar Notsee or racist. )
At least when braceros were introduced as a war time measure to supplement a work force which had in great part been exported to fight overseas, that was an exigent excuse. Twenty years later, the program was simply an artifact maintained to reduce the cost of produce. Ending that program did not end the influx.
Some problems cannot be solved by choosing sides.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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It has been pretty well established and reported by a number of sources that is was a stunt orchestrated by a number of groups, including mexico.0
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What part of ‘illegal’ do liberals not understand??1
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Everyone likes to have someone to blame for the world's ills.
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I blame RandyCigars were made to be smoked, whiskey was made to be drank and women were made to be loved. The only thing I try to age is myself.2
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It was just an observation. I really am not sure which side of the wall I am om.A little dirt never hurt0
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peter4jc said:
Just kidding.
In all seriousness, it's a complicated problem. As Webmost pointed out, sometimes there's just not an up or down choice to be made, no matter how simple our tastes may be.
I've long held that a wall is a wall on both sides of the wall, keeps us in just as well as it keeps them out, and used the Iron Curtain as an example.
eg. "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!"
On the other hand, the Iron Curtain quite often divided one cultural group of people from, well , itself. So that aspect needs to be considered as well.
We certainly don't need to be allowing just any kind of thug or trash to be crossing into our territory willy-nilly, and it is happening. That's a fact.
We also need to recognize our heritage of offering asylum and opening our doors to the worlds immigrants seeking freedom and opportunity, the huddled masses yearning to be free, the means by which many or most of us arrived here in past generations. That should not be forgotten, should it?
Hard question, no doubt.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain0 -
dirtdude said:It was just an observation. I really am not sure which side of the wall I am om.Cigars were made to be smoked, whiskey was made to be drank and women were made to be loved. The only thing I try to age is myself.1
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Really an easy fix. Make a Texas canal from the gulf to the pacific. Mariners would love to be able to cross there instead of the panama canal. Im being sarcastic just in case you couldnt pick it up."I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form."
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter2 -
Usaf06 said:Really an easy fix. Make a Texas canal from the gulf to the pacific. Mariners would love to be able to cross there instead of the panama canal. Im being sarcastic just in case you couldnt pick it up.A little dirt never hurt0
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firehouseguy said:dirtdude said:It was just an observation. I really am not sure which side of the wall I am om.A little dirt never hurt1
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Yeah well, that's how my people lost this land.
In all seriousness though, if they aren't criminals, war criminals, drug runners or otherwise and families looking for asylum, then I have no problem with it.
The problem is, how are they properly vetted, with so many trying to come in at one time?In Fumo Pax
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.Wylaff said:Atmospheric pressure and crap.2