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  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,869 ✭✭✭
    BigT06:
    The Kid:
    BigT06:
    When talking about bands that are from the same era, I would limit that list to bands going through the same start up period as each other. That way there is a direct comparison to what market demand was, what the band had to do to "make it" and what impact the band had on music.

    When talking about the talent of the band, break them down and look at their talent individually. Each instrument. Then look at them collectively as a band, how they play together, how they write together, how much longevity their music has, etc.

    based on those paramiters, GnR can hang with any band.

    how bout this, rather than argue about GnR's legitimacy, tell me who, in the same era is a better band? I will listen to your suggestions, and you do me a favor. Watch a simple documentary about GnR, hell, watch the Behind The Music. If you fell like they are not a worthy or influential band after doing some back research, I will respect your opinion. So that's my schooling... issuing you homework. lol
    Ok based on Talent are you saying GnR can hang with bands like Led Zeppelin, The Who, Rolling Stones, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Cream, Rush, & Aerosmith to name a few??? Cmon...I wanna hear you say it..lol
    As a former professional musician (guitar player and singer) I can assure you, that yes, the musicians in GnR can play their respective instruments at the very highest level. If you wanna look at the top 1/4 of 1% of players in the world and say that if Slash isn't as good as Clapton, then I can't be right, then this isn't a point I have any desire of discussing further. I can go back and forth with you about who is the greatest guitar player that ever lived, the best bassist, drummer, etc... but that isn't even the point. The point was, GnR are an extremely talented band that deserve to be in the HOF based on their merit. Not based on the fact that the HOF has made poor selections in the past.
    Well we can agree to disagree then,,Music being an artform I would have to admit that points of view can be extremely subjective..and yea SLash although being the best musician in the GnR lineup is nowhere near the talent of Eric Clapton. IMO,, No hard feelings Todd. (edit) Please let me know If you and or your band have ever produced a record/single and or done any session work on an record/ single Id love to hear it....
  • BigT06BigT06 Posts: 3,899
    The Kid:
    BigT06:
    The Kid:
    BigT06:
    When talking about bands that are from the same era, I would limit that list to bands going through the same start up period as each other. That way there is a direct comparison to what market demand was, what the band had to do to "make it" and what impact the band had on music.

    When talking about the talent of the band, break them down and look at their talent individually. Each instrument. Then look at them collectively as a band, how they play together, how they write together, how much longevity their music has, etc.

    based on those paramiters, GnR can hang with any band.

    how bout this, rather than argue about GnR's legitimacy, tell me who, in the same era is a better band? I will listen to your suggestions, and you do me a favor. Watch a simple documentary about GnR, hell, watch the Behind The Music. If you fell like they are not a worthy or influential band after doing some back research, I will respect your opinion. So that's my schooling... issuing you homework. lol
    Ok based on Talent are you saying GnR can hang with bands like Led Zeppelin, The Who, Rolling Stones, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Cream, Rush, & Aerosmith to name a few??? Cmon...I wanna hear you say it..lol
    As a former professional musician (guitar player and singer) I can assure you, that yes, the musicians in GnR can play their respective instruments at the very highest level. If you wanna look at the top 1/4 of 1% of players in the world and say that if Slash isn't as good as Clapton, then I can't be right, then this isn't a point I have any desire of discussing further. I can go back and forth with you about who is the greatest guitar player that ever lived, the best bassist, drummer, etc... but that isn't even the point. The point was, GnR are an extremely talented band that deserve to be in the HOF based on their merit. Not based on the fact that the HOF has made poor selections in the past.
    Well we can agree to disagree then,,Music being an artform I would have to admit that points of view can be extremely subjective..and yea SLash although being the best musician in the GnR lineup is nowhere near the talent of Eric Clapton. IMO,, No hard feelings Todd. (edit) Please let me know If you and or your band have ever produced a record/single and or done any session work on an record/ single Id love to hear it....
    I'm cool to agree to disagree as well ;) def no hard feelings. Music is a passion for me... so if I seem argumentative, just imagine how animated I get talking about music in person. I love discussing music with friends.

    And yeah... we have several recordings... I will send you a DVD if I can find a copy...
  • RedtailhawkozRedtailhawkoz Posts: 2,915
    The Kid:
    I recently read that Axl Rose is snubbing his induction into the Rock n Roll hall of fame with Guns and Roses.. I guess he's still pretty bitter and refusing to go on stage with the previous bandmates.. IMO Im surprised the band is even being inducted. I dont know what the criteria is, but it seems to be where they let everyone in these days.. Not gonna say Guns and Roses wernt good but Rock n Roll hall of fame good,, Hmmm idk thats a stretch for me.

    I am a Lifetime Memeber of the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, the criteria is different, In Guns and Roses Case , They were controversial, Solld a zillion Debut albums, Sweet Child of mine and Welcome to the Jungle are still heard a dozen times a day on most radio stations and From the first playing of the Video Welcome to the Jungle at 4 am on MTV to the Most played video EVER on there...... Weather they are in the Hall of fame or nit thee is a TON of thier Costumes and Concert stufff on display in the Museum, Ive sen them 4 times in the original Lineup in the hieght of there Carreer, THEY PUT ON A FREAKING SHOW ! I could go on there are so many inductees that I do not think should be in there but hey There are alot of players in other Hall of fames that SHouldnt be there.... Pete Rose should be........
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    R&R HOF induction criteria seems to have no rhyme or reason whatsoever, based on some of the names who arent in there vs acts who were never even classified as rock who have made it.

    That being said, I agree with GN'R's induction 100%. For those of us who were around when they broke, they were an absolute game changer in terms of what rock could & should be, and what it needed desperately at the time to get back to.

    Axl snubbing the induction just highlights what kept this band from absolutely ruling the universe for decades - Axl. In that man's world, there is nothing but Axl and everything in the world should be ABOUT Axl. Sad, sad, sad....

  • kaspera79kaspera79 Posts: 7,257 ✭✭✭
    Guns and Roses have the movie Dead Pool, and MTV to thank for the start of their success. I first saw them in the movie and it was the best part of the film for me. I loved these guys when they first came around. I would watch MTV all night waiting for their videos, I believe they made some great contributions to music and do deserve to be in the R&R hall of fame.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    R&R HOF induction criteria seems to have no rhyme or reason whatsoever, based on some of the names who arent in there vs acts who were never even classified as rock who have made it.

    agreed 100%

    im not a huge KISS fan but i do understand that they have had something like 23 or 24 albums in a row that went platinum (or better), and they basically invented GLAM and the huge over-the-top show. how are they not in the HoF? seriously?
    The Sniper:
    That being said, I agree with GN'R's induction 100%. For those of us who were around when they broke, they were an absolute game changer in terms of what rock could & should be, and what it needed desperately at the time to get back to.

    Axl snubbing the induction just highlights what kept this band from absolutely ruling the universe for decades - Axl. In that man's world, there is nothing but Axl and everything in the world should be ABOUT Axl. Sad, sad, sad....

    agreed 100% on that as well. Appetite for Destruction was a game changer. the songs that the album spawned still are staples on any rock station: Welcome to the Jungle, Mr. Brownstone, Paradise City, Sweet Child o' Mine, its so easy, night train.
    the album was 18X platinum.
    the second album had songs like Patience and Used to Love Her, not to mention a great cover of Aerosmith's Mama Kin.
    next was the Use your illusion combo with songs like Live and Let Die, Dont cry, Civil War, Yesterdays, Knocking on Heavens door, Estranged, You Could be Mine, and the epic November Rain.
    even their last studio album, The Spaghetti Indecent, went to #4 on the charts and not a single song on there was written by GnR.

    they brought back straight up rock and roll in a time when dance music and "Pop Metal" was in style. if it wasnt for that, bands like the Black Crows may not have ever seen the popularity that they did.


    we can sit here all day and say they arent as good as Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, etc...
    but really, few bands are. but all of those bands influenced music in such a way to bring rock to the spotlight. GnR did just that.

    they should be in there even if they are "no Led Zeppelin"
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    kuzi16:
    The Sniper:
    R&R HOF induction criteria seems to have no rhyme or reason whatsoever, based on some of the names who arent in there vs acts who were never even classified as rock who have made it.

    agreed 100%

    im not a huge KISS fan but i do understand that they have had something like 23 or 24 albums in a row that went platinum (or better), and they basically invented GLAM and the huge over-the-top show. how are they not in the HoF? seriously?
    The Sniper:
    That being said, I agree with GN'R's induction 100%. For those of us who were around when they broke, they were an absolute game changer in terms of what rock could & should be, and what it needed desperately at the time to get back to.

    Axl snubbing the induction just highlights what kept this band from absolutely ruling the universe for decades - Axl. In that man's world, there is nothing but Axl and everything in the world should be ABOUT Axl. Sad, sad, sad....

    agreed 100% on that as well. Appetite for Destruction was a game changer. the songs that the album spawned still are staples on any rock station: Welcome to the Jungle, Mr. Brownstone, Paradise City, Sweet Child o' Mine, its so easy, night train.
    the album was 18X platinum.
    the second album had songs like Patience and Used to Love Her, not to mention a great cover of Aerosmith's Mama Kin.
    next was the Use your illusion combo with songs like Live and Let Die, Dont cry, Civil War, Yesterdays, Knocking on Heavens door, Estranged, You Could be Mine, and the epic November Rain.
    even their last studio album, The Spaghetti Indecent, went to #4 on the charts and not a single song on there was written by GnR.

    they brought back straight up rock and roll in a time when dance music and "Pop Metal" was in style. if it wasnt for that, bands like the Black Crows may not have ever seen the popularity that they did.


    we can sit here all day and say they arent as good as Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, etc...
    but really, few bands are. but all of those bands influenced music in such a way to bring rock to the spotlight. GnR did just that.

    they should be in there even if they are "no Led Zeppelin"
    *** APPLAUDING ***

  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,869 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    The Sniper:
    R&R HOF induction criteria seems to have no rhyme or reason whatsoever, based on some of the names who arent in there vs acts who were never even classified as rock who have made it.

    agreed 100%

    im not a huge KISS fan but i do understand that they have had something like 23 or 24 albums in a row that went platinum (or better), and they basically invented GLAM and the huge over-the-top show. how are they not in the HoF? seriously?
    The Sniper:
    That being said, I agree with GN'R's induction 100%. For those of us who were around when they broke, they were an absolute game changer in terms of what rock could & should be, and what it needed desperately at the time to get back to.

    Axl snubbing the induction just highlights what kept this band from absolutely ruling the universe for decades - Axl. In that man's world, there is nothing but Axl and everything in the world should be ABOUT Axl. Sad, sad, sad....

    we can sit here all day and say they arent as good as Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, etc...
    Yes we can because theyre not.

    I disagree,, Metallica was a game changer,, Soundgarden was a game changer,, GNR may have had a great debut album but You guys make it sound like Rock N roll was on its last leg till GNR hit the stage,,There were many bands kickin azz and continued to do so for the next 10 years, Something that GnR failed to do,, what would of been if the band had some longevity well, will never know..And suggesting that GNR had anything to do with the success of the Black Crowes is ridiculous
    (EDIT)btw the Black crowes , were heavily influenced by The Rolling Stones, Faces, Buddy Guy, Otis Redding, and Humble Pie.

    I keep hearing how GNR changed the music scene and how influential GNR was .....Now Im claiming ignorance here beacause I really dont know...but what popular band(s) were influenced by GNR?? Id really like to know

    (EDIT X2)

    Well I've been trying to answer this question and I think Ive found the answer,,damn,, thank goodness for GNR or else we wouldnt have these awesome bands today

    http://www.mevio.com/music/?inf_id=846
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    The Kid:
    GNR may have had a great debut album but You guys make it sound like Rock N roll was on its last leg till GNR hit the stage,,There were many bands kickin azz and continued to do so for the next 10 years, Something that GnR failed to do,, what would of been if the band had some longevity well, will never know..And suggesting that GNR had anything to do with the success of the Black Crowes is ridiculous
    Glad you recanted brother. LOL As for R&R being on its last leg, here's what I remember about that time frame...

    - GNR showed that you didnt need to wear spandex and tease your hair up to the moon like a woman in order to get a record deal and kick azz onstage. Denim worked just fine. It wasnt about what they looked like - to steal a line from a criminally underrated Aerosmith album, GNR "let the music do the talking." Those were all elements that were SORELY lacking in the rock scene at the time.

    - GNR was the first rock band in a long time that made music with an eye on creating kickass tunes that they loved, instead of music that would get them on the radio and sell albums. Requisite two love ballads 99% of the bands on the scene put on their albums specifically to attract females? I DONT THINK SO! Requisite arena anthem that would give the crowd something to automatically sing along to during concerts? I DONT THINK SO! GNR made snarling rock that they loved. If the public loved it, great. If they didnt, so what? was their attitude.

    Consider this quote from the late Jani Lane from Warrant - "I could kill myself for writing 'Cherry Pie'!". Its a sentiment a lot of bands out there share when discussing their catalog from that era. Ive never heard a single member of GNR make any statement about that regarding a single one of their songs... pretty telling.

  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,869 ✭✭✭
    The Sniper:
    The Kid:
    GNR may have had a great debut album but You guys make it sound like Rock N roll was on its last leg till GNR hit the stage,,There were many bands kickin azz and continued to do so for the next 10 years, Something that GnR failed to do,, what would of been if the band had some longevity well, will never know..And suggesting that GNR had anything to do with the success of the Black Crowes is ridiculous
    Glad you recanted brother. LOL As for R&R being on its last leg, here's what I remember about that time frame...

    - GNR showed that you didnt need to wear spandex and tease your hair up to the moon like a woman in order to get a record deal and kick azz onstage. Denim worked just fine. It wasnt about what they looked like - to steal a line from a criminally underrated Aerosmith album, GNR "let the music do the talking." Those were all elements that were SORELY lacking in the rock scene at the time.

    - GNR was the first rock band in a long time that made music with an eye on creating kickass tunes that they loved, instead of music that would get them on the radio and sell albums. Requisite two love ballads 99% of the bands on the scene put on their albums specifically to attract females? I DONT THINK SO! Requisite arena anthem that would give the crowd something to automatically sing along to during concerts? I DONT THINK SO! GNR made snarling rock that they loved. If the public loved it, great. If they didnt, so what? was their attitude.

    Consider this quote from the late Jani Lane from Warrant - "I could kill myself for writing 'Cherry Pie'!". Its a sentiment a lot of bands out there share when discussing their catalog from that era. Ive never heard a single member of GNR make any statement about that regarding a single one of their songs... pretty telling.

    I havent recanted anything!! ANd are you kiddin me I think you should revisit some band photos of your comment it didnt matter what they looked like,, OMG,, I think the band you are referring to is Great White!!!!
    Axl looks tough dont he
    http://www.100xr.com/artists/G/Guns_N_Roses/Guns.N.Roses-band-1987.jpg
  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    LMAO!!! Yeah... I bet ol Axl was a REAL popular boy every time he was in the holding tank. :-)

    However, Im talking the band as a whole (and before you bring it up, I will freely admit Steven Adler obviously wanted to be Heather Locklear LOL). And even Axl toned that crap down very shortly after they broke. Plus, if you compare their look to 95% of the bands of their genre during that era I think you will agree that there really is no comparison.

    None of which, of course, has anything to do with the music. :-)

    And for the record I will put it out there that I gots NO problem with Great White either! "Mista Bone" and "Wasted Rock Ranger" are still some of my favorite songs to this day, and "House of Broken Love" is a classic tune, PERIOD! If any of our younger members are unfamiliar with that song you should check it out sometime.

    Good stuff kicking this around! :-)

  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    for the record, GnR was a huge influence on Blind Mellon. Shannon Hoon was even in the video and sung on Dont Cry.
    Pearl Jam was influenced by GnR
    Buckcherry, Hinder, The Darkness, and Foo Fighters were all influenced by GnR. Slash alone was inspiration to countless guitarists through the years. everyone thought you were the *** if you could play the opening to Sweet Child O' mine.

    to say they werent influential is laughable. Of course if you pick a bunch of bands that nobody has heard of on a website designed to promote unknown bands it looks bad. I can rattle off about a million bands youve never heard of that list Led Zeppelin and Hendrix as their influences.

    Also, i didnt say they made the black crows, i said they put straight up rock on the map again giving the black crows a chance. the black crows would not have failed without GnR, but they sure set the stage for em. Glam Rock was in full force at the time. Poison, Warrant, Bon Jovi, and Cinderella were the norm. GnR Changed that... Thank God.
    as much as i love Glam Rock, you can only take so much of it. I mean, its a Giant Parody of itself. Fun as hell but ridiculous none-the-less.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Speaking of jimi hendrix

    he wasnt in the spotlight for 10 years. he didnt have a single #1 hit. he had fewer overall hits than GnR. but hendrix deserves to be in the rock hall simply because he put Guitar based rock on the front burner again.


    not saying Jimi and GnR are the same but your criteria for what "should make it" would have excluded Hendrix as well. Arguably, slash is at least close to the same level as Hendrix as far as Guitar talent. Its just that Hendrix did it 20 years earlier and in a slightly different style.
  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,869 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    Speaking of jimi hendrix

    he wasnt in the spotlight for 10 years. he didnt have a single #1 hit. he had fewer overall hits than GnR. but hendrix deserves to be in the rock hall simply because he put Guitar based rock on the front burner again.


    not saying Jimi and GnR are the same but your criteria for what "should make it" would have excluded Hendrix as well. Arguably, slash is at least close to the same level as Hendrix as far as Guitar talent. Its just that Hendrix did it 20 years earlier and in a slightly different style.
    I havent stated any criteria for who should be in and who should not,, and actually after reviewing many of the inductees that are in the HOF I agree that GNR should be inducted into HOF,, Also I didnt say they werent influential at all I merely stated I had no Idea who they influenced and from the names you rattled off aside from Pearl Jam and the Foo fighters I think its a pretty dismal list,,I also read somewhere avenged sevenfold but whatever...
    As far as Hendrix is concerned, Unfortunately he like many others ..Bon Scott, Janis Joplin, Kieth Moon, John Bonham, Jim Morrison, passed away And once again I dont see the comparison whatsoever..
    Now lets talk supergroups who after they broke up or seperated had individual artist who went on to superstardom all over again,, Robert Plant, Jimmy Page, Phil Collins, Peter Gabriel, Paul Rodgers, Roger Daltrey, Pete Townshend,Sammy Hagar, Eric Clapton, Mick Jagger.. So my argument is this,, if the members of GNR were so amazingly awesome and influential,,What the hell has any of the members of GNR done since GnR???? Velvet revolver????

    FWIW
    http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_influential.html
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Slash himself has done quite a bit, but i feel that he has the stigma left by Axl to contend with.
  • Roberto99Roberto99 Posts: 1,077
    Anyone see the documentary on the New York Dolls? It was pretty interesting and ultimately very moving. There was alot I didn't know about the music scene in those days. I didn't really know anything about them before I saw it.
  • Roberto99Roberto99 Posts: 1,077
    The Rock N Roll hall of fame has confused me for as long as I heard about it. To me it is bizarre that musical artists that really have nothing to do with Rock N Roll are in it and major artists that had everything to do with Rock are not there. Seems like it needs a name change. As for GnR being voted in, I'm just fine with that even though I didn't like ANYTHING they did after Appetite for Destruction. I remember that album being viewed by many as an instant classic when it came out. My favorite song on it, "Mr. Brownstone" never even made their greatest hits.
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