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Box Press and burn issue's

onestrangeoneonestrangeone Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Cigar 101
So I have noticed that when the natural humidity is high outside my box press sticks have some burn issue's, won't stay lit, canoeing, etc. at first I wrote it of to the brand, 5v and forgot about it, since then I have burned quite a few different box pressed brands mostly with no problems.
I had one go way south this morning and it occurred to me that all of the burn issue's have been during high RH days (at least the ones bad enough to remember)
so are the box pressed more prone to weather conditions than rounds? or is this QC issue's?

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    Bob_LukenBob_Luken Posts: 10,016 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just a guess, but I'd say that it is likely a construction problem that is made worse by the humidity. Just a guess.

    A long time ago I asked a question about burn problems keeping an AB Prensado lit during high humidity and the majority of the replies told me it AB Prensado's fault and was not related to the humidity outside where I was smoking. But here lately I've seen a bit of talk from guys on here who talk like humidity does make a difference in general.

    And that would make sense to me. There's more oxygen at high humidity and less at low. You need three things to make fire. Source of ignition, (lighter) check. Fuel (cigar) check. And oxygen, check, wait wait. Do I have TOO LITTLE oxygen or TOO MUCH oxygen? Sure I might be able to force it burn. But with the oxygen available, will it burn well enough to enjoy the flavor?
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    bigharpoonbigharpoon Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭
    I notice a big difference in burn when the humidity is high regardless of brand or shape. The cigars just seem to be absorbing moisture at a rapid rate and before I know it my cigar acts like it's plugged and I have a wonky burn. It affects the flavor, too, as you aren't going to get all the cigar has to offer with a bad burn. In Maine humidity is a fact of life but when I smoke in those conditions I just pay extra close attention to my cigar because I know it won't take care of itself with ease.
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    onestrangeoneonestrangeone Posts: 2,441 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bob Luken:
    Just a guess, but I'd say that it is likely a construction problem that is made worse by the humidity. Just a guess.

    A long time ago I asked a question about burn problems keeping an AB Prensado lit during high humidity and the majority of the replies told me it AB Prensado's fault and was not related to the humidity outside where I was smoking. But here lately I've seen a bit of talk from guys on here who talk like humidity does make a difference in general.

    And that would make sense to me. There's more oxygen at high humidity and less at low. You need three things to make fire. Source of ignition, (lighter) check. Fuel (cigar) check. And oxygen, check, wait wait. Do I have TOO LITTLE oxygen or TOO MUCH oxygen? Sure I might be able to force it burn. But with the oxygen available, will it burn well enough to enjoy the flavor?
    I guess what is throwing me off is that these are different brands, all from the same boxes/mazos and burn quite well when the RH is (normal) I smoked a CT Master this morning RH @ 87 perfect burn to the nub!
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    ddubridgeddubridge Posts: 3,978 ✭✭✭
    bigharpoon:
    I notice a big difference in burn when the humidity is high regardless of brand or shape. The cigars just seem to be absorbing moisture at a rapid rate and before I know it my cigar acts like it's plugged and I have a wonky burn. It affects the flavor, too, as you aren't going to get all the cigar has to offer with a bad burn. In Maine humidity is a fact of life but when I smoke in those conditions I just pay extra close attention to my cigar because I know it won't take care of itself with ease.
    I notice the same as well. High humidiy can kill a previously flawless cigar. At times I will dry box a cigar in humid conditions. However, this requires me to make a decision on what im going to some well before I do. This doesnt happen often.
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    CigarManNo1CigarManNo1 Posts: 7
    I thought I am one out of few people having the same problem, also thought about changing the place I buy my cigars, now I see that there are people who struggle with the same issue.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    part of the reason why cigars burn well is the relationship between the binder and the wrapper and then again the relationship between the binder and the filler. too much of a gap between anything and the wrapper and the cigar wont burn correctly.

    Box pressed cigars are made just like regular cigars with a touch less tobacco so that it can take to the press without splitting the wrapper or binder. this press changes the relationship of the binder, wrapper, and filler. the trick is to fill the cigar correctly, a task that is difficult with a regular cigar let alone a box pressed one.
    the best box pressed cigars dont have this issue.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    part of the reason why cigars burn well is the relationship between the binder and the wrapper and then again the relationship between the binder and the filler. too much of a gap between anything and the wrapper and the cigar wont burn correctly.

    Box pressed cigars are made just like regular cigars with a touch less tobacco so that it can take to the press without splitting the wrapper or binder. this press changes the relationship of the binder, wrapper, and filler. the trick is to fill the cigar correctly, a task that is difficult with a regular cigar let alone a box pressed one.
    the best box pressed cigars dont have this issue.
    Kuzi, you are the acknowledged master and all, but I must be missing something in what you just said. My fave machine made is presently the Smithdale Oscuro. It is a short filler, machine made, box pressed double perfecto. Never a burn problem that I can remember. Yet the relationship between binder and wrapper and filler has got to be whatever shook down from the hopper versus whatever leaf the gal laid quick as a blink on the die of the machine.

    At present, my rotation consists of Ave Maria, Torano 1916, Fonseca Arana, AJ Fresh, Fratello (only cause I won a box), those Smithdale's, and Nestor 2000s. Last night it rained solid. Today we have dark clouds about three inches off the pavement. I know if I smoke in the garage tonight, my best bet is the Smithdale. Last year this time, I bought a box of Perdomo Lot 23 cigars for this very reason. I found they would burn no matter how wet it got. What do the Lot 23s and Smithdale's have in common? Both have a toasty leather flavor, imparted by a Connecticut Broadleaf wrapper. What's the diff? The 23 is wrapped by hand using fine CT seed grown in Central America., whereas the Smithdale is made by whizzing 19th century machinery from coarse CT sotweed grown in Connecticut. Don't know what the 23 binder is; but the Sdale binder is PA broadleaf. How do both these differ from the others listed? None of the others have either a leathery flavor nor a connie wrapper. Cause I tend toward the moody nutmeg stuff these days.

    See what I mean? I was working toward a theory that it's the leaf which makes a steady consistent burn regardless of damp. Furthermore, I mistreat the Smithdales unreal. They live in their cardboard box completely abused. I just knock them around as befits their price. In fact my latest box is still setting on the workbench in the garage where I threw it when I got off the motorcycle from McSherrystown last Saturday. The 23s, just like all the others, always lived in a humidor tended daily.

    I thought sure it was wrapper. Now you say it's construction. Where did I go wrong?

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    i was just throwing another thought into the mix. of course there are other factors. I was just saying that in general box pressed cigars will burn more uneven because of that relationship.

    as fars as the short filler thing goes...
    when it is filled according to a machine, they are never over or under filled. they are always filled just right... machine precision. that box pressed cigar has a great relationshp with its filler and binder and again binder and wrapper becasue it is machine made.

    of course you also lose some of the complexity that most long filler cigars have. its a one note song. it may be a damn fine note, but still one note.


    i wasnt trying to make an end all statement. its just another factor to think about in the complex cigar world.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    So what do you think of the

    burning broadleaf theory?
    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    the lot 23 has a connecticut seed grown in Nicaragua.

    not quite the same thing.

    maybe there are qualities that help the broadleaf seed burn well, but im not sure what they would be. a change in growing location can change a lot.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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    webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There's even a book on the subject! ==> http://archive.org/details/methodsoftesting00garn

    Gotta love the internet.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    thats is an interesting read. ill have to go over it again before i comment on it but there may be factors they did not consider in this little book.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
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