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bocards

I have found that alot of the cigars I have tried (only tried about 50 or so at this posting) that flavors differ from start to finish, but some do not (or I can not tell the difference anyway). Does aging make a big difference as far as the taste from start to finish ? The longest I have aged any smoke is about three weeks....I like to smoke 'em not look at em That being said if aging makes a big difference I might be more inclined to age more and just find an everyday smoke and see what happens....any opinions ?

Bad Andy

Well 3 weeks isn't againg, its more resting. Aging is more like years. And yes the flavor will change over time. Depending on the cigars you are smoking most will evolve while smoking it. Yet some cigars are made to be smoked immediately, others should be rested or aged for a longer periods. Others will chime in on this to give you more details but thats just the basic answers.

rusirius

In general a higher quality cigar will change flavors throughout the blend. That's actually kinda a sign of a good blender. Being able to blend and roll the cigar in such a way that these flavors do change (and in a good way) is quite a skill.

Usually if you have a very mono flavor throughout, it's probably a cheaper cigar (particularly the machine made ones).

And as pointed out above, that's more a rest than aging, and while aging will change the flavors, typically it'll be over the cigar as a whole... It won't make or take with regards to the blend, and therefore the change in flavors.

Also, not knowing your experience level, make sure you're blowin a portion of the smoke through your nose. If you're not, then you're not "tasting" a lot of the cigar and you'd probably never detect any changes even if it did. Remember the majoring of the "tasting" we do is done with our nose, not our taste buds...

j0z3r

rusirius:

Usually if you have a very mono flavor throughout, it's probably a cheaper cigar (particularly the machine made ones).

One thing Greg. I don't think a cigar necessarily has to have an evolving flavor profile to be considered good. I've had quite a few cigars that maintain a certain flavor profile from start to finish and they were excellent. Lack of complexity is not a bad thing by any stretch, I always like to put it this way: would you rather have a cigar that changed flavor profiles on you 3-4 times throughout the stick but was really mediocre at best, or would you rather have a cigar that, while it maintains the same flavor profile throughout, is really damn good?

rusirius

j0z3r:

rusirius:

Usually if you have a very mono flavor throughout, it's probably a cheaper cigar (particularly the machine made ones).

One thing Greg. I don't think a cigar necessarily has to have an evolving flavor profile to be considered good. I've had quite a few cigars that maintain a certain flavor profile from start to finish and they were excellent. Lack of complexity is not a bad thing by any stretch, I always like to put it this way: would you rather have a cigar that changed flavor profiles on you 3-4 times throughout the stick but was really mediocre at best, or would you rather have a cigar that, while it maintains the same flavor profile throughout, is really damn good?

Thats a great point Joe, and one that I had completely forgotten about during that post.

urbino

Right. There are some excellent cigars that maintain a consistent flavor throughout, and there are some excellent cigars that change flavors. For me, whether a cigar changes flavors or not is not a sign of its quality or the care that went into its design or manufacture. What counts for me is whether the flavor is good, abundant, and the cigar is well constructed.

rdnstn

Exactly Urbi. As long as there is lots of flavor throughout, I really don't care if it changes or not, although with the right combinations, a nice complex cigar will knock your socks off.

kaspera79

urbino:

Right. There are some excellent cigars that maintain a consistent flavor throughout, and there are some excellent cigars that change flavors. For me, whether a cigar changes flavors or not is not a sign of its quality or the care that went into its design or manufacture. What counts for me is whether the flavor is good, abundant, and the cigar is well constructed.

I like when a cigar keeps me interested with a variation of flavor changes. While I am smoking I look forward to the surprise that the cigar/ blenders will provide. Construction is always important since I don't want to fight the stick for an hour or more. Nice burn, strong ash, and the beauty of the wrapper all increase the pleasure of the smoking experience.

jihiggs

lol, sorry, I had to laugh when I read aged for 3 weeks, the tobaco used in cigars is likely a year old before it even gets rolled. aging is 2 years minimum!

madurofan

Higgs, I strongly disagree. While 3 weeks isn't aging, 3 months very well can be. Anytime the flavor of the cigar changes its been aged. Some cigars can change after a short amount of time others take years. To make a sweeping statement that anything less than 2 years isn't aging is just flat wrong. Some cigars are past their prime at two years.

kuzi16

madurofan:

Higgs, I strongly disagree. While 3 weeks isn't aging, 3 months very well can be. Anytime the flavor of the cigar changes its been aged. Some cigars can change after a short amount of time others take years. To make a sweeping statement that anything less than 2 years isn't aging is just flat wrong. Some cigars are past their prime at two years.

hmmm ill go 80-20 on this one.
3 weeks isnt aging. 3 months CAN be.

any time a cigar's flavor changes it may not have been aged... what if it was left out of a humidor for 3 weeks?

some cigars do take longer than others. mild cigars age more quickly strong more slowly (as far as i can tell out of my own notes)

i know a bit of this post is a bit nit-pickity, but something just didnt feel right about the statement " Anytime the flavor of the cigar changes its been aged" i just didnt know how else to get my point accross.

j0z3r

I think you said it right kuzi.... if I throw a 5 Vegas Classic in a box of Acid cigars and the flavor changes after a week, does that mean it aged? I think not.

Nothing personal maddy, but the statement was a bit overreaching.

Capt

jihiggs:

aging is 2 years minimum!

I am going to go with Higgs on this statement. Not much happens to a cigar in 3 months. Maybe an equalization of humidity, but that is it.

kuzi16

Capt:

jihiggs:

aging is 2 years minimum!

I am going to go with Higgs on this statement. Not much happens to a cigar in 3 months. Maybe an equalization of humidity, but that is it.

for my aging humi i tend to cut this statement in 1/2. one year minimum... for more mild cigars.

Capt, we all have thrown about our scales for what we think fresh/age/over age.
id be interested in hearing your time frame and why you think your time frame is accurate.

madurofan

j0z3r:

Nothing personal maddy, but the statement was a bit overreaching.

I concur. I was trying to point out that his statement was too broad and instead made one myself. What I meant was, IMO, anytime a cigar is stored for the purpose of aging and the flavor of that cigar has changed it has been aged. Whether that takes place in 3 months or 3 years depends on the cigar. We can argue the meaning of aged, and what timelines are correct, etc. Thats all opinion based on personal experience and I love hearing everyone's experiences. However, to say a cigar(being stored for the purpose of aging) does not and cannot change in 3 months is just flat wrong ... PERIOD. Now if your definition of resting allows for some changes in the flavor of the cigar, thats fine but mine does not. I've stated this before but my idea of resting is enough time for the cigar to stabilize in its enviroment, anythign more than that is "aging" TO ME. Now would I pull out a three week out cigar and say it is aged? No but it has done more than just "rested" to me.

j0z3r

Cool, I can dig that one. I've had cigars change over the course of a couple months, so I know it's possible. As you say, people have their own ideas of aging, personally I don't care that much, but all the same I do have a box aging coolerdor to see the effect of age myself.

bocards

Alrighty then !!!!! I seem to have been ignorant with some definitions here about aging or resting. The reason I asked was this....I bought a box of cigars here on Cigar.com after having a cigar from a sampler that I liked. I "rested" the cigars for about three weeks in the humidor once it got here. I smoked the first cigar and it was a bit creamy to my taste in comparison to the sampler....it seemed the more the more the cigars rested (I am unedumacated and this does not even sound right to me!) the more it was the cigar I remeber from the original sampler. Just a thought, but I really appreciate the responses. Thanks, Bo

urbino

I wouldn't feel too bad about it, bo. As you can see, this is something even the relatively old hands still debate.

bocards

Not at all urbino, I asked a question looking for opinions and got a good mix. I ll have to experiment and see what opinions I find closer to what I find out for myself. To me it just seemed a little wierd that some cigars would taste that different over that small amount of time from the same box....I was wondering if I was doing something totally screwy or taste buds were a bit wacky depending on what I ate that day etc. Either way I like debate Thanks, Bo

madurofan

Just to throw this out there. Read this months newsletter, Svenson makes reference to aging a cigar 30 days ...

rusirius

madurofan:

Just to throw this out there. Read this months newsletter, Svenson makes reference to aging a cigar 30 days ...

And even larger debate could seem to stem from the old "throw out the milk" direction...

If your milk expires at midnight tonight is it perfectly fine to use at 11:59 but must be thrown out at 12:01?

Likewise how can you give any definition of "time" to determine aging when it's all relative? How long did the manufacturer age the tobacco BEFORE rolling? How long did the cigar age after it was rolled before being shipped? How long did it sit in a warehouse like ccoms before it was purchased?

How then can you really say "It must sit for x time before it's considered aging..." ???

Isn't the very definition of aging is an accumulation of changes in an object over time???

So here's a question for you that state aging requires years...

Why do you let your cigars "rest" a few days, weeks, whatever in a humi BEFORE you smoke one?

If it DOESN'T change at all then what's the point of doing it? Yet if it DOES change, then it's a change in an object over time and therefore meets the definition of "aging"...

How ironic...

dutyje

I've been thinking the same thing, Shirley.... so if I've had a cigar sitting in my humi for 364 days, it's not been aged... but tomorrow, when it hits 365 days, it will have aged. (or whatever your threshold is for defining "aging")

Also, I've been thinking about the "warehousing effect" of aging a cigar. Let's say someone makes the argument that a cigar must sit in your humi for "6 months" in order to have aged. Let's say I go to the B&M and buy myself a cigar from a very full box. I take it home and stick that cigar in the humi. A month later, I go into the same B&M, and buy a cigar out of the very same box, which is now almost empty. I stick that in my humi. In five months, would one of those cigars have been aged, and the other still just rested?

I don't age cigars. I don't intend to age cigars, although I can see myself aging some particularly well-liked smokes if they are being discontinued, just because I will want to have them on hand. If I specifically want to try an aged cigar, I will buy one that has been aged.

I personally have a theory (no evidence whatsoever to back it up) that the concept of aging cigars after manufacture is heavily promoted in the cigar industry as a more sophisticated means of enjoying cigars. Let's think about that for a second. Why would the manufacturer care? Well, if you need to age your cigars, that means you'll need to carry an inventory. Some people (Capt) carry an outrageously large inventory in order to properly age cigars to their tastes. This build of inventory helps to artificially increase demand and increase the price/margins on the product.

I actually like to smoke cigars that have very little time (less than 6 months) on them. I agree with the concept that these cigars are as the blender had intended. What I've learned from the owner of my new favorite B&M concurs with this.

Luko

I'll be the first to admit I don't know jack, but I like this line of thinking. It makes sense and is my new raison d'etre.

kuzi16

whats strange about the concepts that we have been tossing about aging have been based mostly on:
1) a time frame
2) Change

well, we have basicly said if the cigar changes its aged (with exception to improper conditions) but hte problem i see with that is that i dont think a cigar really "changes" all that much... or it has several changes that happen at different times. I would like to use a cigar that many of us have smoked before- 5 vegas series A.
If i get a series A and smoke it right out of the truckit will have the rich maduro and woody flavor that i love out of this cigar. two years later if i smoke one from that same box it will have that rich maduro and woody flavor that i love out of this cigar. so what was the point of aging it? for me it will come down to smoothness. did the cigars flavor profile change? no. Did it make it more flavorfull? no. Did it make it less flavorful? probably not. so is saying htat the cigar changed a fair assesment? its still the same tobacco and flavor profile.

so what DID change? theres a good chance that the oils evened out with in hte cigar. there is a good chance it will burn better because of this.

iduno. Im not even sure what im getting at. i think its that i dont think a cigar changes very much at all when we age them. it just refines them. Is change how we truely measure how its aged? when does the refinementhappen?


most of the REAL changes that a cigar goes through are at the factory where they are rolled and go into the aging room. the amonia goes away, the harshness smooths out. the cigar becins to develope into what we know.

why do i have an aging humidor? it was to see what happens to a cigar when it ages. Most of them are very simaler if not the same in flavor as when they are fresh, just more refined and smooth.

i think im just babaling at this point.
fin.

PuroFreak

I haven't been doing this long enough to really "age" many cigars, but I did have a Gurkha Legend after a little over a year in the box and WOW! Great smoke! I don't know if it would have been better if I had waited longer, but I intend to get a few more and find out. How long a cigar should be aged is a matter of opinion to me and there is no "right" answer to this. If you buy a cigar and smoke it as you are walking out of the store and you enjoy it, then the time at the cash register was enough aging for that person! haha

dutyje

I will add that, if I were to buy and age one cigar, it would be the Bolivar that came on a recommendation and I disliked so much. The flavor and aroma were very bitter and harsh. I've seen the word "acrid" used to describe this, and I think it fits nicely. I have a hard time believing that this cigar is as bad as it presented itself, and would like to buy a couple to store and forget about, then try one in a year and another in two years. My understanding is that cigars mellow and, as kuzi said, smooth out over time. If that's the case, this cigar should benefit greatly. Or it could be that I just didn't like the flavor profile.

I don't have much interest in aging my favorite smokes, because frankly, if I like it now I want to smoke it now.

kuzi16

dutyje:

if I like it now I want to smoke it now.

thats actually a good point with aging as well. If a cigar is harsh to you and you put em down to rest for a bit then smoke one ever month or two. when they are good to you smoke the rest of em as fast as you can.

madurofan

Good points, I love this debate. I could continue to stir it up over and over just to see everyone's take. But I agree with duty and kuzi's last statements. Smoke it when it tastes best to you. My only issue with aging ever has been the people that only smoke aged cigars(not you kuzi, while I think 6 weeks is excessive I wouldn't say you only smoke aged cigars) How do you know what the cigar tasted like when it was young, how do you know it wasn't better?

kuzi16

I only wait 6 weeks because every time i have broken that rule i have not had a good experiance. they are either too moist or too dry. the 6 weeks in the humi ensure that they are where they should be.
second point
i only buy multipuls when i buy cigars. i always smoke one fresh and i always age at least one. that way i know when it was better.


and back tracking a bit....
if you dont like the general flavor profile of a cigar when its fairly fresh, then there is a good chance you wont like it with a few years of age on em.

urbino

madurofan:

Good points, I love this debate. I could continue to stir it up over and over just to see everyone's take. But I agree with duty and kuzi's last statements. Smoke it when it tastes best to you.

But that, of course, is the Catch-22 with aging. You don't actually know when a cigar tastes best until it no longer tastes best.

madurofan

Good call urbs

PEFTW