Its the same people from the left who want a total redistribution of wealth, they want a gloabl world---not our countiries soverignty, they want abortion, they want socialism, they want our ecomomy to fail....you know who they are Laker...its them!!!, The guys, the left, the people...cmon man, its THEM, you know THEM!!!
Oh THEEEEEMM! Kind of like the Boogey man under your bed when you are two and have no one else to blame your fears on? Got it.
This just all really to do with the fact that I changed the wig on my Banana in my sig. line isn't it? You guy's don't like it?
Well my taxes tell me the boogey man is real, and when I see someone in a new cadillac using a food stamp card I know where it's going. Why act like redistribution of wealth isn't happening when it is and has been for a long time? If it's just the extremist doing it then how the hell is it happening?
Did you ask to find out if that was their Caddy or perhaps a friends??? Or maybe a parents Caddy they were borrowing because they are trying to make it on their own???---Not saying its likely or unlikely...just curious if you did any critical analysis of that incident either.
Also, please explain the exact "redistribution of wealth" you are referring to. If it is food stamps and the like, this is nothing new and not just to be blamed on the "liberals". Surely you would agree then that people recieving Social Security into their 80s and 90s are part of this redistribution as well because they are being given far more than they every paid in, correct? Isnt that program socialism at its finest afterall?
Did you ask to find out if that was their Caddy or perhaps a friends??? Or maybe a parents Caddy they were borrowing because they are trying to make it on their own???---Not saying its likely or unlikely...just curious if you did any critical analysis of that incident either.
Also, please explain the exact "redistribution of wealth" you are referring to. If it is food stamps and the like, this is nothing new and not just to be blamed on the "liberals". Surely you would agree then that people recieving Social Security into their 80s and 90s are part of this redistribution as well because they are being given far more than they every paid in, correct? Isnt that program socialism at its finest afterall?
I asked but the music about killing the police and impregnating multiple women was too loud for them to hear me.
Agreed on all counts of that and I would add public schools, obamacare (the worst IMHO), unemployment, and any other program that forces financially responsible people to prop up those who are irresponsible. Lets not get into the it was just unlucky and they need help.... it's called savings and not getting into debt (living within your means, I know thats extreme to some). I don't just blame liberals for redistribution of wealth but they're currently the ones trying to take it to the next level which is pretty much socialism.
Did you ask to find out if that was their Caddy or perhaps a friends??? Or maybe a parents Caddy they were borrowing because they are trying to make it on their own???---Not saying its likely or unlikely...just curious if you did any critical analysis of that incident either.
Also, please explain the exact "redistribution of wealth" you are referring to. If it is food stamps and the like, this is nothing new and not just to be blamed on the "liberals". Surely you would agree then that people recieving Social Security into their 80s and 90s are part of this redistribution as well because they are being given far more than they every paid in, correct? Isnt that program socialism at its finest afterall?
I asked but the music about killing the police and impregnating multiple women was too loud for them to hear me.
i hardly think that was an appropriate response to a difficult question.
he is asking a valid question in a valid debate.
ive said it many times before, if you want to participate in a debate, then debate the facts, the theories, the concepts, etc.
maybe the caddy wasnt theirs. maybe it was. it was a valid question.
i do realize that most people dont go up and randomly ask others if they own the car they are driving.
i also understand the point of the story. many people have stories about a person paying with food stamps getting into a hummer, or a caddy, or with 5 or 6 gold chains on, or a fur coat on, etc. it is naive to think that every one of those incidents the person is using someone else's car, gold chains, fur coat... long story short, the system IS being taken advantage of. i personally know people that are taking advantage of the system. it does piss me off. it is a problem. an overly sarcastic reaction to a valid question will not help this situation, the system, or the debate.
Anyone who thinks that those who recieve Govt assisstance don't know how to exploit it to the limit are kidding themselves. having lived around and near this type of thing my entire life it is evident it is taught in every home, in many churches (yeah I said it) and encouraged by pols who wish to expand their powerbase with a "free" (hardly free to the taxpayer) handout.
It was a joke I think he may live through it and so might you.
It was the way you approach most discussions here actually. If you feel you are of a different opinion then someone else you attack them and their position rather then just stating your own.
We have had this out so many times here it is just getting old that's all. It really is hard to have a serious intelligent discussion when people are spending most of their energy thinking up better insults or shots. It tends to bog down the discussion and spoils any chance for making points which may actually have some merit to them.
We have been doing good lately up until recently. Too many people take politics too seriously, as though they have an opinion that is going to make any difference at all. This makes anyone who see's things differently an enemy...why? These are all just opinions and discussion. We are NOT going to change one bloody thing here.
It was a joke I think he may live through it and so might you.
It was the way you approach most discussions here actually. If you feel you are of a different opinion then someone else you attack them and their position rather then just stating your own.
We have had this out so many times here it is just getting old that's all. It really is hard to have a serious intelligent discussion when people are spending most of their energy thinking up better insults or shots. It tends to bog down the discussion and spoils any chance for making points which may actually have some merit to them.
We have been doing good lately up until recently. Too many people take politics too seriously, as though they have an opinion that is going to make any difference at all. This makes anyone who see's things differently an enemy...why? These are all just opinions and discussion. We are NOT going to change one bloody thing here.
No I'm pretty sure it was a silly joke to a silly question.... Maybe I'm wrong and the chasing down welfare reciepients to ask them about their vehicle ownership status was a serious thing.... Not sure who would do that though.
Wester, I can be an a$$ with the best of them---just ask Kuzi, as he and I have had it out many times....and I admit I was the one with the irrevelant and crass remark on at least a few occasions with him, so please dont try to impress me or wow me with your biting sarcasm or wit, because Ive got you beat and can remain off point and personal as much as you can----but I wont.
In addition, to you and others---I do not disagree that there are abusers of the system...and that goes for EVERY system in everything. People will try to exploit what they can get in life...not everyone, but its nature for some. For those of you know already know what I do for a living (I dont need to say it again, as this debate seems to be degenerating anyway) I see and deal with welfare recipients and abuses of people every day of the week in one form or another. For every Escalade I see...I see 10 cars that I find amazing that can still be on the road, and even more that that of people car pooling, riding bikes, or walking (sometimes miles) to apply for benefits...usually with great shame or apprehension.
With all due repect Western and others...I could go into brief wide ranging ideaistic points like you did, but life doesnt always work that way. Do you think these people really enjoy their lot in life??? A couple hundred bucks a month for food and MAYBE some type of roof over their head? Please look at the real facts, or volunteer at a homeless shelter maybe to see how the "other half" really lives. Until this happens, please spare all of us the false points that you know anything about the system or the people in it other than than few terrible abusers that make the news or stand out. Ignorance DOES NOT allow you to speak without error.
No need to impress you sir, nor desire. As far as personal....how can I make it personal if I know nothing about you?
I don't care if people are abusing it or not, what upsets me is that I have to pay for other peoples decisions. IMO it's about time to bring back personal responsibility, the people should not be punished for the mistakes of others. If thats greedy to you then thats fine.
For the point of I don't know how hard these folks have it.... How do you know what kind of life I've led?
You have been saying it bothers you all along or you wouldnt have posted before, so please dont retract or step back when youre in a corner. Also, I dont think personal responsibility is gone. Do you know what you have to do and prove to receive food stamps or cash assistance?? Did you know if you file to look or for jobs or turn one down, the option is there to remove said asssitance as well as unemployment?
As far as the kind of life you have led, frankly, I dont care. And no matter what life you have had, you do not know how "these folks" have it because you are not them, and not living in their way, at this time.
... . Also, I dont think personal responsibility is gone. Do you know what you have to do and prove to receive food stamps or cash assistance?? Did you know if you file to look or for jobs or turn one down, the option is there to remove said asssitance as well ....
I used to get 5-6 calls per week asking if I was hiring. I'd say no, they'd ask to fill out an application. I'd ask why, they'd hem and haw and finally tell me it was for unemployment. Once, I was needing to hire someone, is tell the callers yes, I'm hiring.95% would say ok, thanks and hang up. Don't tell me how hard they "work" for that check.
You have been saying it bothers you all along or you wouldnt have posted before, so please dont retract or step back when youre in a corner. Also, I dont think personal responsibility is gone. Do you know what you have to do and prove to receive food stamps or cash assistance?? Did you know if you file to look or for jobs or turn one down, the option is there to remove said asssitance as well as unemployment?
As far as the kind of life you have led, frankly, I dont care. And no matter what life you have had, you do not know how "these folks" have it because you are not them, and not living in their way, at this time.
Right and it's the tax payer who's beast of burden here that's really responsible. I don't think I've stepped back at all my point again is "I should only be financially responsible for me and my responsibilities" I don't want to support grown capable people or their responsibilities, it's not my buisness nor my concern. If you want to support them thats your buisness, but when you force this "charity" it's no more then theft.
You are not forced to do anything. Please read Hobbes, Locke, Rousseau and the like. If you are not happy with the social contract in this country, you are free to leave and thus end your social contract. In a perfect world I suppose personal responsibility would be the beggining and the end. However there are also social security, medicare, and even VA benefits which are funded by the citizens of this country and cost considerably more than the amount the person recvng them ever puts into it. We cant have it both ways here which is what we want. "Socialism" is good in some areas but not others...cmon now, isnt the real issue here that everyone wants what is best for them and their interest and the hell with everyone else...from the rich to the poor?
Yeah it's called states rights. CA has the right to be as socialist as they want. While Texas should be able to be as free market capitalist as they want. While not effecting each other. The federal govenment is overstepping some boundaries here depending on how literally or figuratively you read the constitution.
We are freakin doomed as a society. The half of us wage earners who are paying taxes are now supporting the other half who pay zero taxes and yay, they can even get some of my money through govt redistribution (EIC). Anyway you slice that fact it comes up wrong!
this article at points touches on what many of us have already said. either way, its an interesting read.
It is interesting to read all right, in parts. I was left wondering how many of those in the newly rich catagory were people who got rich almost instanly during the dot com craze? There has been more wealth generated (in terms of millionaires) in the last generation then in any previous times.
I do NOT in any way begrudge these people or any people their money, I work for mine too remember, but you have to admit there are a lot of guy's and girls in blue jeans in their mid twenties who wouldn't have to work a day in their life again if they chose to do so, who also didn't put in the years or grind and toil and learned lessons over a lifetime of building an empire, of whatever size. They were LUCKY and got on the fast track. And good for them.
That is also an example of how luck can also play into people fortunes, and I have been self employed for over 20 years and have never been on Employment insurance or welfare. Having empathy for people less fortunate then myself does NOT mean I think you should have your pocket picked by the government all the time. For some reason ( I think it has to do with the label thing) many people here think they have what I think all rolled up into a neat little bundle.
Sorry for the left turn there Kuzi...
Oooops, I just had to add this as an addition after reading that last line again. I made a funny and I didn't even mean to.
this article at points touches on what many of us have already said. either way, its an interesting read.
It is interesting to read all right, in parts. I was left wondering how many of those in the newly rich catagory were people who got rich almost instanly during the dot com craze? There has been more wealth generated (in terms of millionaires) in the last generation then in any previous times.
I do NOT in any way begrudge these people or any people their money, I work for mine too remember, but you have to admit there are a lot of guy's and girls in blue jeans in their mid twenties who wouldn't have to work a day in their life again if they chose to do so, who also didn't put in the years or grind and toil and learned lessons over a lifetime of building an empire, of whatever size. They were LUCKY and got on the fast track. And good for them.
That is also an example of how luck can also play into people fortunes, and I have been self employed for over 20 years and have never been on Employment insurance or welfare. Having empathy for people less fortunate then myself does NOT mean I think you should have your pocket picked by the government all the time. For some reason ( I think it has to do with the label thing) many people here think they have what I think all rolled up into a neat little bundle.
Sorry for the left turn there Kuzi...
Oooops, I just had to add this as an addition after reading that last line again. I made a funny and I didn't even mean to.
i didnt think that you were too nut-jobish there HA! you know im kidding. it was just an interesting read. you gave the kind of response i was looking for: why you thought it was interesting.
Comments
Also, please explain the exact "redistribution of wealth" you are referring to. If it is food stamps and the like, this is nothing new and not just to be blamed on the "liberals". Surely you would agree then that people recieving Social Security into their 80s and 90s are part of this redistribution as well because they are being given far more than they every paid in, correct? Isnt that program socialism at its finest afterall?
he is asking a valid question in a valid debate.
ive said it many times before, if you want to participate in a debate, then debate the facts, the theories, the concepts, etc.
maybe the caddy wasnt theirs. maybe it was. it was a valid question.
i do realize that most people dont go up and randomly ask others if they own the car they are driving.
i also understand the point of the story. many people have stories about a person paying with food stamps getting into a hummer, or a caddy, or with 5 or 6 gold chains on, or a fur coat on, etc.
it is naive to think that every one of those incidents the person is using someone else's car, gold chains, fur coat...
long story short, the system IS being taken advantage of. i personally know people that are taking advantage of the system. it does piss me off. it is a problem. an overly sarcastic reaction to a valid question will not help this situation, the system, or the debate.
We have had this out so many times here it is just getting old that's all. It really is hard to have a serious intelligent discussion when people are spending most of their energy thinking up better insults or shots. It tends to bog down the discussion and spoils any chance for making points which may actually have some merit to them.
We have been doing good lately up until recently. Too many people take politics too seriously, as though they have an opinion that is going to make any difference at all. This makes anyone who see's things differently an enemy...why? These are all just opinions and discussion. We are NOT going to change one bloody thing here.
In addition, to you and others---I do not disagree that there are abusers of the system...and that goes for EVERY system in everything. People will try to exploit what they can get in life...not everyone, but its nature for some. For those of you know already know what I do for a living (I dont need to say it again, as this debate seems to be degenerating anyway) I see and deal with welfare recipients and abuses of people every day of the week in one form or another. For every Escalade I see...I see 10 cars that I find amazing that can still be on the road, and even more that that of people car pooling, riding bikes, or walking (sometimes miles) to apply for benefits...usually with great shame or apprehension.
With all due repect Western and others...I could go into brief wide ranging ideaistic points like you did, but life doesnt always work that way. Do you think these people really enjoy their lot in life??? A couple hundred bucks a month for food and MAYBE some type of roof over their head? Please look at the real facts, or volunteer at a homeless shelter maybe to see how the "other half" really lives. Until this happens, please spare all of us the false points that you know anything about the system or the people in it other than than few terrible abusers that make the news or stand out. Ignorance DOES NOT allow you to speak without error.
I don't care if people are abusing it or not, what upsets me is that I have to pay for other peoples decisions. IMO it's about time to bring back personal responsibility, the people should not be punished for the mistakes of others. If thats greedy to you then thats fine.
For the point of I don't know how hard these folks have it.... How do you know what kind of life I've led?
As far as the kind of life you have led, frankly, I dont care. And no matter what life you have had, you do not know how "these folks" have it because you are not them, and not living in their way, at this time.
7 Millionaire Myths
this article at points touches on what many of us have already said. either way, its an interesting read.
I do NOT in any way begrudge these people or any people their money, I work for mine too remember, but you have to admit there are a lot of guy's and girls in blue jeans in their mid twenties who wouldn't have to work a day in their life again if they chose to do so, who also didn't put in the years or grind and toil and learned lessons over a lifetime of building an empire, of whatever size. They were LUCKY and got on the fast track. And good for them.
That is also an example of how luck can also play into people fortunes, and I have been self employed for over 20 years and have never been on Employment insurance or welfare. Having empathy for people less fortunate then myself does NOT mean I think you should have your pocket picked by the government all the time. For some reason ( I think it has to do with the label thing) many people here think they have what I think all rolled up into a neat little bundle.
Sorry for the left turn there Kuzi...
Oooops, I just had to add this as an addition after reading that last line again. I made a funny and I didn't even mean to.
you know im kidding.
it was just an interesting read. you gave the kind of response i was looking for:
why you thought it was interesting.