Communism always gets a bad rep due to the dictatorial nature that tends to arise within it. One2gofst definitely got it right, it is one of those things that just looks good on paper but differs largely in practice. The whole point of communism is the destruction of government; the government is merely a tool to be used (ideally) until the Utopian society is finally reached, wherein it would then be abolished as government is no longer needed to regulate the people.
Communism got it's bad rep due to them murdering hundreds of millions of people while trying to put on a nice face for the rest of the world attempting to reach this "Utopian Society." Every communist government to date has not only failed economically, they have been by far the worst of the worst when it comes to terrorizing/torturing/spying on/murdering their own people. Stalin makes Hitler look like a 6 year old bully, and Mao is/was just as bad. Between the USSR and China we can CONSERVATIVELY estimate they killed 120 milliion of their own citizens in the name of creating a "Utopian Society." Laos/Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge took things to a whole new level by murdering 1/3 of their entire population in only a couple years (2 million or so) and if you want to look at Communism gone bat-***-crazy look no further than North Korea.
Communism has been tried many, many times and has been by far the worst political system ever attempted. The loss of human life due to Communism is unfathomable. Easily in the range of 150-200 million people from a combination of work camps, political assassinations/executions, purges, and you can't forget bad economic policy that lead to the starvation of millions upon millions. (read about "deep plowing" under Mao and the Ukraine farming disasters in the Soviet Union) It is a fools dream to think it can work simply because humans are not "cogs in a machine" and in all styles of government: "All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
dhall6:
Much of our outlook on communism was shaped by the Cold War and because of that many people look at communism in a negative connotation and write it off immediately when in theory it really isnt that bad. During the Cold War everyone thought that the U.S.S.R. was controlling other communist nations, spreading communism around the world, and this has been proven to not be the case.
What? Proven that they didn't attempt to spread communism? The Soviet Union was supporting North Vietnam - they did so militarily, even flying in secret in order to prevent the US from nuking the *** out of them during the Vietnam war, and of course supported with military equipment every single communist government, to include East Germany, North Korea, China, Cuba, etc. etc. The entire premise of Marx and Communism was to create a world-wide revolution of Communism. Oh, and after WWII the countries they "liberated" on the way to Berlin somehow magically became satellite states of the USSR. Poland, East Germany, etc. Not to sound like a jerk, but you really need to do a bit more reading about the Soviet Union.
Communism always gets a bad rep due to the dictatorial nature that tends to arise within it. One2gofst definitely got it right, it is one of those things that just looks good on paper but differs largely in practice. The whole point of communism is the destruction of government; the government is merely a tool to be used (ideally) until the Utopian society is finally reached, wherein it would then be abolished as government is no longer needed to regulate the people.
Communism got it's bad rep due to them murdering hundreds of millions of people while trying to put on a nice face for the rest of the world attempting to reach this "Utopian Society." Every communist government to date has not only failed economically, they have been by far the worst of the worst when it comes to terrorizing/torturing/spying on/murdering their own people. Stalin makes Hitler look like a 6 year old bully, and Mao is/was just as bad. Between the USSR and China we can CONSERVATIVELY estimate they killed 120 milliion of their own citizens in the name of creating a "Utopian Society." Laos/Cambodia and the Khmer Rouge took things to a whole new level by murdering 1/3 of their entire population in only a couple years (2 million or so) and if you want to look at Communism gone bat-***-crazy look no further than North Korea.
Communism has been tried many, many times and has been by far the worst political system ever attempted. The loss of human life due to Communism is unfathomable. Easily in the range of 150-200 million people from a combination of work camps, political assassinations/executions, purges, and you can't forget bad economic policy that lead to the starvation of millions upon millions. (read about "deep plowing" under Mao and the Ukraine farming disasters in the Soviet Union) It is a fools dream to think it can work simply because humans are not "cogs in a machine" and in all styles of government: "All power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely"
dhall6:
Much of our outlook on communism was shaped by the Cold War and because of that many people look at communism in a negative connotation and write it off immediately when in theory it really isnt that bad. During the Cold War everyone thought that the U.S.S.R. was controlling other communist nations, spreading communism around the world, and this has been proven to not be the case.
What? Proven that they didn't attempt to spread communism? The Soviet Union was supporting North Vietnam - they did so militarily, even flying in secret in order to prevent the US from nuking the *** out of them during the Vietnam war, and of course supported with military equipment every single communist government, to include East Germany, North Korea, China, Cuba, etc. etc. The entire premise of Marx and Communism was to create a world-wide revolution of Communism. Oh, and after WWII the countries they "liberated" on the way to Berlin somehow magically became satellite states of the USSR. Poland, East Germany, etc. Not to sound like a jerk, but you really need to do a bit more reading about the Soviet Union.
Another example of this is the Soviet's support of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The soviets were assisting and protecting another communist state to help further their goal.
i once saw a T-shirt that said: Communism killed 200 million people world wide and all i got was this lousy T-shirt.
i hate message Tees. that still made me laugh.
i know that there are other "entities" (religions, states, groups, ideologies ) that killed a TON of people. im not saying their arent. the point is made a bit more clear when you point out that it was over the last 75 years or so that these 150 -200 million were killed.
id like to point out that this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period.
i once saw a T-shirt that said: Communism killed 200 million people world wide and all i got was this lousy T-shirt.
i hate message Tees. that still made me laugh.
i know that there are other "entities" (religions, states, groups, ideologies ) that killed a TON of people. im not saying their arent. the point is made a bit more clear when you point out that it was over the last 75 years or so that these 150 -200 million were killed.
id like to point out that this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period.
So now Tee shirts are a reliable source of information ? LMFAO
I did a search for this information and found it to be pretty scarce. Don't know where buddy with the tee shirt got his information mind you. Here is a link to what I found and it comes from a a US News Source as it says within the story. It claims 100 million and gives a break down. Doesn't mention Cuba.
i once saw a T-shirt that said: Communism killed 200 million people world wide and all i got was this lousy T-shirt.
i hate message Tees. that still made me laugh.
i know that there are other "entities" (religions, states, groups, ideologies ) that killed a TON of people. im not saying their arent. the point is made a bit more clear when you point out that it was over the last 75 years or so that these 150 -200 million were killed.
id like to point out that this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period.
So now Tee shirts are a reliable source of information ? LMFAO
I did a search for this information and found it to be pretty scarce. Don't know where buddy with the tee shirt got his information mind you. Here is a link to what I found and it comes from a a US News Source as it says within the story. It claims 100 million and gives a break down. Doesn't mention Cuba.
100 million is SO much better. ha!
... and in all fairness i never claimed the shirt to be good info.... just that i saw it. my statement of "this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period" is still true. personally i have seen reputable numbers ranging from 100million to 150million the 200million was only seen here... or on t-shirts
a few million here, a few million there. soon we will be talking about REAL mass murder.....
here is a more complete list of Death by Communism that includes Cuba. from what i can tell these are political deaths only.
(and HERE is the list of documented people killed just by Che.)
anyway you stack it (as someone said before), absolute power corrupts absolutely. it is dangerous to live under a communist regime
and before anyone gets any wrong ideas... i was saying all this fully knowing that NOBODY is saying communist dictatorships are good, or that we should switch to one. this is a post simply to discuss facts. also, i never once thought that Laker was attacking me. i fully agree that T-shirts are not a reliable source of information. (Ohio may or may not be for lovers, depending on if the shirt info is accurate)
Most recent utterance from Castro" Oops, I meant capitalism". HAhahahahahahahaha, I bet they sent Raul over to tell him. Anyone else would have been immediately imprisoned for questioning El Presidente
Most recent utterance from Castro" Oops, I meant capitalism". HAhahahahahahahaha, I bet they sent Raul over to tell him. Anyone else would have been immediately imprisoned for questioning El Presidente
What does this mean? I can't make any sense of it Gypsy.
i once saw a T-shirt that said: Communism killed 200 million people world wide and all i got was this lousy T-shirt.
i hate message Tees. that still made me laugh.
i know that there are other "entities" (religions, states, groups, ideologies ) that killed a TON of people. im not saying their arent. the point is made a bit more clear when you point out that it was over the last 75 years or so that these 150 -200 million were killed.
id like to point out that this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period.
So now Tee shirts are a reliable source of information ? LMFAO
I did a search for this information and found it to be pretty scarce. Don't know where buddy with the tee shirt got his information mind you. Here is a link to what I found and it comes from a a US News Source as it says within the story. It claims 100 million and gives a break down. Doesn't mention Cuba.
100 million is SO much better. ha!
... and in all fairness i never claimed the shirt to be good info.... just that i saw it. my statement of "this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period" is still true. personally i have seen reputable numbers ranging from 100million to 150million the 200million was only seen here... or on t-shirts
a few million here, a few million there. soon we will be talking about REAL mass murder.....
here is a more complete list of Death by Communism that includes Cuba. from what i can tell these are political deaths only.
(and HERE is the list of documented people killed just by Che.)
anyway you stack it (as someone said before), absolute power corrupts absolutely. it is dangerous to live under a communist regime
and before anyone gets any wrong ideas... i was saying all this fully knowing that NOBODY is saying communist dictatorships are good, or that we should switch to one. this is a post simply to discuss facts. also, i never once thought that Laker was attacking me. i fully agree that T-shirts are not a reliable source of information. (Ohio may or may not be for lovers, depending on if the shirt info is accurate)
Good links Kuzi. I was not pointing out that 100 million is better, but it IS 100 million fewer then your upper limit number.
I suppose the criteria for these numbers would exclude ANY country outside of a communist country making the list. I would also suggest that it is a good thing that the list did not include people killed outside of their own country by non communist country's. That too would be a rather large number. Not that anyone would be counting those numbers.
You were right Kuzi, I was NOT attacking you. Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
Most recent utterance from Castro" Oops, I meant capitalism". HAhahahahahahahaha, I bet they sent Raul over to tell him. Anyone else would have been immediately imprisoned for questioning El Presidente
What does this mean? I can't make any sense of it Gypsy.
He's commenting that Fidel had a later press release that DENIED what he said and he condemned Capitalism...
Then he is commenting on how the old Senile Bastitch would have killed anyone who corrected him, so it was probably the commandante in charge Raul that told him....
Imagine that conversation... Walking in the room, your crazy old family member is in his army helmet and old green military shirt, but no pants... You walk in and he offers you a box of Dog Turds and reminisces of when he gave a box to Kennedy and they "Were his Favorite" and you have to explain to this psycho that:
"Uh.... Fidel... What's your favorite thing in the whole wide world?"
TACOS!
Okay.... Ummmm.. What do you think of Capitalism? *press record on tape* "I HATE CAPITALISM!"
Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
when i was 16 i had a t-shirt that said: JESUS IS COMING ...everybody look busy.
Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
when i was 16 i had a t-shirt that said: JESUS IS COMING ...everybody look busy.
Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
when i was 16 i had a t-shirt that said: JESUS IS COMING ...everybody look busy.
Yeah, I guess I just think bluntly
I guess we all thought alike when we were young punks. Mine said :
"Jesus is Coming! Hide the Porn!"
Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
when i was 16 i had a t-shirt that said: JESUS IS COMING ...everybody look busy.
Yeah, I guess I just think bluntly
I guess we all thought alike when we were young punks. Mine said :
"Jesus is Coming! Hide the Porn!"
Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
when i was 16 i had a t-shirt that said: JESUS IS COMING ...everybody look busy.
Yeah, I guess I just think bluntly
I guess we all thought alike when we were young punks. Mine said :
"Jesus is Coming! Hide the Porn!"
do we need another forum group hug?
You guys do realize that if you said that about mohammed you would create an instant jihad against you and the Imam in charge would issue a death threat and command all peace loving followers of mohammed/allah to cut your head off on sight!
You guys do realize that if you said that about mohammed you would create an instant jihad against you and the Imam in charge would issue a death threat and command all peace loving followers of mohammed/allah to cut your head off on sight!
Oh Gypsy. C'mon, can you give it a rest please? This had nothing to do with Muslims ! Do you see them in your sleep too. Are you really that afraid or what ?
You guys do realize that if you said that about mohammed you would create an instant jihad against you and the Imam in charge would issue a death threat and command all peace loving followers of mohammed/allah to cut your head off on sight!
Oh Gypsy. C'mon, can you give it a rest please? This had nothing to do with Muslims ! Do you see them in your sleep too. Are you really that afraid or what ?
agreed. this isnt about muslims. this was just a T-shirt.
A T shirt that clearly would be offensive to followers of Jesus, right? I will forgive you unlike the previous mentioned religion. See there, I didn't say it. Know this, I will NEVER give them a rest, pass, or benefit of the doubt, i will leave that to you guys.
A T shirt that clearly would be offensive to followers of Jesus, right? I will forgive you unlike the previous mentioned religion. See there, I didn't say it. Know this, I will NEVER give them a rest, pass, or benefit of the doubt, i will leave that to you guys.
ya know.. i drew Mohamed on "Draw Mohamed Day"
but what i didnt do was bash Jesus on that day.
frankly i dont care if i was forgiven for either "offense"
How did we go from a post asking what everyone thought of the latest interview with Castro to the Muslims and Chistians and who is more tollerant... I would say this thread has officially DERAILED!!!!!! Not like it's the first time I guess, just the most off topic I believe.
Comments
Communism killed 200 million people world wide and all i got was this lousy T-shirt.
i hate message Tees. that still made me laugh.
i know that there are other "entities" (religions, states, groups, ideologies ) that killed a TON of people. im not saying their arent. the point is made a bit more clear when you point out that it was over the last 75 years or so that these 150 -200 million were killed.
id like to point out that this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period.
I did a search for this information and found it to be pretty scarce. Don't know where buddy with the tee shirt got his information mind you. Here is a link to what I found and it comes from a a US News Source as it says within the story. It claims 100 million and gives a break down. Doesn't mention Cuba.
Please, really? A Tee shirt? Too funny.
http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/usa/news/article_1316649.php/BACKGROUND_100_million_deaths_under_communism
... and in all fairness i never claimed the shirt to be good info.... just that i saw it. my statement of "this pace outdoes all religions in the world put together over the same time period" is still true.
personally i have seen reputable numbers ranging from 100million to 150million
the 200million was only seen here... or on t-shirts
a few million here, a few million there.
soon we will be talking about REAL mass murder.....
here is a more complete list of Death by Communism that includes Cuba.
from what i can tell these are political deaths only.
(and HERE is the list of documented people killed just by Che.)
a quick thought here...
WWI had about 16 million Deaths
WWII had about 78 million deaths (including german concentration camp deaths)
the Korean war had about 1.5 million
the vietnam war had about 6.5 million deaths
in those four wars the death toll was about 106 million.
this is the LOW end of the estimated political deaths brought on by communism.
anyway you stack it (as someone said before), absolute power corrupts absolutely.
it is dangerous to live under a communist regime
and before anyone gets any wrong ideas...
i was saying all this fully knowing that NOBODY is saying communist dictatorships are good, or that we should switch to one. this is a post simply to discuss facts.
also, i never once thought that Laker was attacking me. i fully agree that T-shirts are not a reliable source of information. (Ohio may or may not be for lovers, depending on if the shirt info is accurate)
I suppose the criteria for these numbers would exclude ANY country outside of a communist country making the list. I would also suggest that it is a good thing that the list did not include people killed outside of their own country by non communist country's. That too would be a rather large number. Not that anyone would be counting those numbers.
You were right Kuzi, I was NOT attacking you. Your Tee shirt comments made me laugh and remember something I did when I was a 16 year old kid. I got a Tee Shirt and had the guy at the mall iron on the letters. On the front it declared in big letters "Jesus is coming" and on the back, also in big letter "And fu ck is he mad !"
At the time I thought there was a lot of truth in that tee shirt too, LAMO.
Then he is commenting on how the old Senile Bastitch would have killed anyone who corrected him, so it was probably the commandante in charge Raul that told him....
Imagine that conversation...
Walking in the room, your crazy old family member is in his army helmet and old green military shirt, but no pants... You walk in and he offers you a box of Dog Turds and reminisces of when he gave a box to Kennedy and they "Were his Favorite" and you have to explain to this psycho that:
"Uh.... Fidel... What's your favorite thing in the whole wide world?"
TACOS!
Okay.... Ummmm.. What do you think of Capitalism?
*press record on tape*
"I HATE CAPITALISM!"
Send tape to media outlets....
JESUS IS COMING
...everybody look busy.
"Jesus is Coming! Hide the Porn!"
... or three of em.
but what i didnt do was bash Jesus on that day.
frankly i dont care if i was forgiven for either "offense"
at some point its just a joke.