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i was wondering what are some of you opinions on cigar bloggers, since im new to cigars ive been looking at a lot of video reviews and its helped me out to pick new sticks, anyway their are some out their that i notice never say a bad thing about every cigar they try, and others that tell it like it is. anyway just throwing this out their
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  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    Honestly, most of them make me laugh. Some are very informative some are clearly out there just trying to get free stuff.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    madurofan:
    Honestly, most of them make me laugh. Some are very informative some are clearly out their just trying to get free stuff.
    i agree with that.
    there are a few that i like because of the actual info they post, but for the most part i stay clear of the opinions until after i smoke the cigar. i want to decide fore myself, then see what others had to say. its fun to see how different people react to the same cigar.
  • docbp87docbp87 Posts: 3,521
    There are a few very credible sources for news, a few that post reviews that are great and unbiased, and a few that won't smoke a cigar unless it was a free donation from a sponsor or viewer (the lowest level of scumbag cigar weaseling)

    There are 4 or 5 blogs that I read every day. I have my own, but would never put it on the same level as the blogs I regularly read. I like to think that my information is valuable, and valid, but in the end most of what I write in reviews is just opinion.
  • sightunseensightunseen Posts: 2,130
    I contribute occasionally to a site and I think it's a fun hobby to have. Almost all of the cigars I have reviewed were my sticks that I could not find a lot of reviews on, so my posts are part online cigar journal and part resource for someone who may want a little more info on the cigar. Like what Kuzi was saying, some people may not want their opinion "tainted" before smoking a new cigar and that's fine. I just really enjoy sharing my experience with a cigar.

    I agree with with Doc's opinion on people who only reviews donated cigars. I don't think one should be reviewing just to get free stuff, it seems disingenuous to me.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    I hope no one lumps me in with those you have a bad opinion of, or think I only review donated sticks. While it's true many of my reviews are donated, I don't solicit them. In fact a great portion of my donations show up at the door without prior warning as a nice surprise! I also have companies that send their entire line for review, or pre-releases. I get several emails a week from viewers asking how to send me something for inclusion. I know people respect and value my opinion and the work i put in to the videos, and trust my opinion. I don't pull punches, I show anything negative and it is what it is. Luckily these days 'bad' cigars are few and far between, we've hit a point in history where the industry has a very high quality standard, and the experience from most cigars is a positive one. While I do have hundreds of my own sticks in que, and many already posted, I do put donations in front of those reviews strictly out of courtesy. People and companies sending things in I feel should have priority of release since they took the time to send something.
  • DeadmarshDeadmarsh Posts: 5
    I know I dig pictures you take of the cigars and I personally don't care where you get 'em!
  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,871 ✭✭✭
    I personally do not have the budget to try every cigar out there. I do appreciate the reviews at various websites and some seem to be more accurate than others. Many of the reviews help me weed out some cigars that I find will not be in flavor/strength profile. For exampl the Punisher. I know without even trying that cigar that Its not for me. While I like a spicy DPG theres a limit and while I like ligero theres a limit. So I want to say thanks to all the bloggers out there. Your reviews have not only helped me become more informed but have saved me some coin along the way. If the opportunity comes up Yea I may try the Punisher but not going to buy a 5 or ten pack anytime soon. I hardly ever buy a box without first trying a cigar and Ill buy a ten pack only if Im pretty sure Ill like the cigar. I do agree taste and preferance is all subjective and what one person dislikes is aother ones ambrosia. So there are some blogs that are a complete wast of time and unreliable. While I have found others I wont mention names who seem to have pretty much the same taste range as I do, So its a good bet if they tried the stick and they like it, I will too. Anyway. Take Care and Stay Thirsty My Friends
  • kaspera79kaspera79 Posts: 7,259 ✭✭✭
    Bryan...I know that you put alot of time and effort into your reviews/videos and anyone who has ever watched them would know that you are NOT in it for a free cigar. For some reason you site is the only "tobacco" website that passes through my work computers filters so I have seen many of them. Thanks for the hard work.
  • jsnakejsnake Kansas CityPosts: 5,800 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I do one for fun and to share with friends. A friend asked me to guest review on his site and I did for about 6 months and really liked it. Started my own kind of as part of my hobby. There is a challenge to trying to put a cigar experience into words. I have received a few free things to review and giveaway. I have given a bunch away from my own pocket though. I enjoy reading several and some have great industry news.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    kaelaria,

    I'm not a huge blog reader but I have read a few of your reviews. I do not lump you into the "just out for free ****" category. I really appreciate in your reviews that you focus on more than just the taste. The reviews of yours that I've read you spend just as much time on body, construction and burn as you do on the flavors.

    Just my humble opinion guys but any bloggers/ wanna be bloggers out there. Taste of the cigar may be where you get to use all your pretty adjectives but its honestly the least important part of a review. Balance, construction, burn and body are MUCH more important. Remember that when doing your reviews.
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    madurofan:
    ... Just my humble opinion guys but any bloggers/ wanna be bloggers out there. Taste of the cigar may be where you get to use all your pretty adjectives but its honestly the least important part of a review. Balance, construction, burn and body are MUCH more important. Remember that when doing your reviews.
    This is where I have to disagree with you. If a cigar as amazing flavor I'll fight with construction issues, and a wonky burn. Now if you're referring to body as nicotine that's not important in the slightest.
    But if you mean the traditional sense of the word as in depth of flavor and complexity then yes I agree.

  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    stephen_hannibal:
    madurofan:
    ... Just my humble opinion guys but any bloggers/ wanna be bloggers out there. Taste of the cigar may be where you get to use all your pretty adjectives but its honestly the least important part of a review. Balance, construction, burn and body are MUCH more important. Remember that when doing your reviews.
    This is where I have to disagree with you. If a cigar as amazing flavor I'll fight with construction issues, and a wonky burn.
    I agree with you stephen, the thing is I'm referring to a blogger's review NOT my personal experience with a cigar. Flavor is subjective and honestly I don't give a **** what flavors you get out of a cigar when you're reviewing it. Now the review would be uber-boring if you didn't mention flavors at all. I'm just saying don't put all your effort into flavors when doing a review make sure you spend at least an equal amount of time on the non-subjective factors.


    stephen_hannibal:
    Now if you're referring to body as nicotine that's not important in the slightest.
    But if you mean the traditional sense of the word as in depth of flavor and complexity then yes I agree.

    Um. I'm trying to figure out a way to phrase this without sounding like a ****. Just understand I don't mean this as sh1tty as it gonna sound. Body has absolutely nothing to do with complexity or depth of flavor. I'm not sure at all where you got that is the traditional meaning. What you are speaking of is the flavor of a cigar, i.e. full flavored. Body is and always has been how strong something is. With cigars, yes, that has to do with nicotine content but that is because that is what gives it strength. Body is ALWAYS the strength of something and how it affects you. This is true with wine, beer, coffee, pretty much anything that you speak of as having body.

    Also IMO that is one of the most important things I look for in a review, body is very important in what time of day and/or situation I choose to enjoy a cigar.
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    madurofan:
    stephen_hannibal:
    madurofan:
    ... Just my humble opinion guys but any bloggers/ wanna be bloggers out there. Taste of the cigar may be where you get to use all your pretty adjectives but its honestly the least important part of a review. Balance, construction, burn and body are MUCH more important. Remember that when doing your reviews.
    This is where I have to disagree with you. If a cigar as amazing flavor I'll fight with construction issues, and a wonky burn.
    I agree with you stephen, the thing is I'm referring to a blogger's review NOT my personal experience with a cigar. Flavor is subjective and honestly I don't give a **** what flavors you get out of a cigar when you're reviewing it. Now the review would be uber-boring if you didn't mention flavors at all. I'm just saying don't put all your effort into flavors when doing a review make sure you spend at least an equal amount of time on the non-subjective factors.


    stephen_hannibal:
    Now if you're referring to body as nicotine that's not important in the slightest.
    But if you mean the traditional sense of the word as in depth of flavor and complexity then yes I agree.

    Um. I'm trying to figure out a way to phrase this without sounding like a ****. Just understand I don't mean this as sh1tty as it gonna sound. Body has absolutely nothing to do with complexity or depth of flavor. I'm not sure at all where you got that is the traditional meaning. What you are speaking of is the flavor of a cigar, i.e. full flavored. Body is and always has been how strong something is. With cigars, yes, that has to do with nicotine content but that is because that is what gives it strength. Body is ALWAYS the strength of something and how it affects you. This is true with wine, beer, coffee, pretty much anything that you speak of as having body.

    Also IMO that is one of the most important things I look for in a review, body is very important in what time of day and/or situation I choose to enjoy a cigar.
    http://tobacconistuniversity.org/blog/?p=973
    This is kinda were I got my info though admittedly I did not do a good job of summing it up.

    Ad what the heck is with the pre-apology?
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    im gunna do my best to give you my take on this. i may be a bit different than many people out there in my view on body/flavor/power.
    madurofan:
    Body has absolutely nothing to do with complexity or depth of flavor.
    i agree.
    Body has to do with the mouth feel of the cigar smoke. if a cigar is full bodied, the smoke feels thick in your mouth. if a cigar is light in body then it feels almost as if there is no smoke in the mouth at all when you swirl it. the smoke can feel like it is thick in your mouth but have very little flavor to it. or the smoke can feel very light in feeling in your mouth but have a ton of flavor.
    madurofan:
    Body is and always has been how strong something is. With cigars, yes, that has to do with nicotine content but that is because that is what gives it strength. Body is ALWAYS the strength of something and how it affects you. This is true with wine, beer, coffee, pretty much anything that you speak of as having body.
    strength and body are different as well IMHO. strength is about nicotine. body is, as stated above, mouth feel.

    i have had cigars that are full bodied, full strength, and mild on flavor. i had one recently, i just cant seem to remember what it was off the top of my head.


    more common is a full flavor, mild/medium strength, mild/med body. think Davidoff.


    madurofan:
    Also IMO that is one of the most important things I look for in a review, body is very important in what time of day and/or situation I choose to enjoy a cigar.
    in this sentence, i would have used the word "strength" not "body"
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    Guys, I'm going to have to say I need to do more research in this department after reading that link and your writing kuz. As you guys know I base almost everything I share on conversations I've had with people in the cigar industry. My understanding of body always meant strength, the mouth feel Kuzi is talking about falls into that strength for me. I may not have done the best job explaining fully either my OPINION(I wanted to emphasize that because I don't have cold hard facts on this).

    I apologize for the pre-apology lol. I try to proofread what I write before hitting post, and when I read that I kept trying to come up with a way to make it not sound like I was saying, "You don't know what the f*ck you're talking about". Because thats not what I was trying to say lol.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    The two terms are body and strength. Body is how much flavor you get - the mouthfeel. Strength is how much it effects you - the nicotine for example.
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭
    madurofan:
    Guys, I'm going to have to say I need to do more research in this department after reading that link and your writing kuz. As you guys know I base almost everything I share on conversations I've had with people in the cigar industry. My understanding of body always meant strength, the mouth feel Kuzi is talking about falls into that strength for me. I may not have done the best job explaining fully either my OPINION(I wanted to emphasize that because I don't have cold hard facts on this).

    I apologize for the pre-apology lol. I try to proofread what I write before hitting post, and when I read that I kept trying to come up with a way to make it not sound like I was saying, "You don't know what the f*ck you're talking about". Because thats not what I was trying to say lol.
    I'm in the same boat too...I always read that body was meant to describe strength/nicotine....finish- after taste.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    kaelaria:
    The two terms are body and strength. Body is how much flavor you get - the mouthfeel. Strength is how much it effects you - the nicotine for example.
    Not questioning you here, but where did you get that from? I ask because I'm now racking my brain on where my thoughts came from. I remember Henke Kelner saying that the body of a cigar is the "experience". How it makes you feel, how the smoke feels in your mouth, etc. He was talking about how he generally considers his cigars medium - full when most people think they are mild.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    From years of talking with blenders, owners, company reps, etc. In fact there was a video recently with Jose Blanco going over just this...I can't remember who had it up, it was from one of the recent cigar tours. Jose did a tasting class and it was filmed.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    ah here it is
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    kaelaria:
    From years of talking with blenders, owners, company reps, etc. In fact there was a video recently with Jose Blanco going over just this...I can't remember who had it up, it was from one of the recent cigar tours. Jose did a tasting class and it was filmed.
    Nice, thanks man. I've only had the oppurtunity to do the Kelner tasting but I've been lucky enough to meet and chat with many guys in the industry but aside from Kelner I honestly don't think body has ever been brought up.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    kaelaria:
    ah here it is
    First off thank you, I loved it.

    However, go back and watch that Video, at 8:50 Jose actually says how many times have you been smoking a cigar that you think is medium bodied and you go to stand up ? Right there he says that body is strength. He is using the two words interchangeably. I submit the argument that based on that Video Jose believes like I do body is strength, that may not be ALL that body is but it is a major factor.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    I'm sure everyone uses the terms at times interchangeably to describe something they are trying to convey. These are the industry terms that have been said and explained to me by those that made them, so that's the way it is for me and always has been. It's too bad they aren't defined in the dictionary so there was a clear cut description for all to see :) To me it's like the terms wrapper, binder, filler, cap, head, foot, etc. I know what they are, I know just about everyone uses the same terms so that's what it is to me.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    Aside from the fact I was watching the video so intently I forgot to assh and it fell on top of my left hand, singed all the hair and left a nice little burn blister, I enjoyed the hell out of this Kae. If you run across in other videos like that shoot them my way. Plain old interviews of a blender talking about his cigar having gotten to where the annoy me but stuff like that is AWESOME.

    I agree I wish that there was a dictionary or encyclopedia but if there was wouldn't that kill our discussions?:)
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    kaelaria:
    It's too bad they aren't defined in the dictionary so there was a clear cut description for all to see :)
    CLICK

    i dont think that "power" or "strength" are defined but "Body" is defined as:
    Tobacconist University: Glossary:
    1) The middle part of the cigar, also referred to as the barrel.
    2) The breadth and depth (spectrum) of flavor of a tobacco. Also referred to as richness and fullness, but not to be confused with the tobacco's strength, spice, or nicotine level. For example, Dominican tobaccos tend to have a lighter body than Central American tobaccos.

    i love that website btw...

  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    Kuz, I've seen that site before but many times it contradicts what blenders and manufacturers I have spoken with tend to say. To me it seems to be more of the "aficianados" university not the tobacconists university but what do I know, I fall into neither of those catagories :)
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    TU is a third party business. I mean by 'dictionary' the absolute authoritative definition like MW.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    i see what you are saying... but i have to work with what ive got. they do a lot of good work. i think i like them so much because it seems to be a constant work in progress....
    much like myself.

  • Russ55Russ55 Posts: 2,765
    Interesting thread. I'll take a stab at it and offer my thoughts. I'd like to preface the following though by saying that I could be completely wrong. I really don't know that much about cigars, and even less about this subject.

    I've always considered body, and strength to be synonymous with regard to cigars, that is interchangeable. I think most folks who smoke cigars view it the same way. Now that doesn't mean it's correct, but there does seem to be some sort of common ground there amongst most people. A lot of this stuff leans towards the intangible side of things, so I don't think we're likely to see any hard and fast definitions, but rather what the majority adopt as an accepted definition.

    I've heard Alex describe body as "the weight of the smoke on your palate", or something along those lines. That would seem to be similar to what Kuzi is saying. The problem I run into is when I hear a phrase like "Full Bodied Powerhouse". When I hear that I think: "Very strong cigar". I don't think "Thick feeling smoke in my mouth, and lots of strength", and I'm fairly certain I'm not supposed to think that. I also don't think "Full flavored, and full strength" unless it's specified. Flavor is obviously an attribute separate from body.

    There is something there though, because I understand what Kuzi is saying about the thick and thin smoke. I just don't consider that body. Doesn't mean I'm right, I've just never thought of it that way. I don't know that trying to differentiate between body and strength is the way to do it, and one website, even if it's a good one, using that convention isn't enough to sway me. Now if I had seen it in many different places, and guys like Alex adopted it, I would be more inclined to try and think of it that way. I would be really interested in his thoughts on this.
  • kaelariakaelaria Posts: 572
    To me, Flavor and Body are the same thing. Just like in wine/beer etc. - Body is how much flavor there is, strength is alcohol content.
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