Home Non Cigar Related

Bank of America Letting 40000 some people go....

In another trend of Corporate America firing employees instead of cutting their huge salaries and looking to more profitable ways to make up their losses for **** people over.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/business/2011/09/bank-of-america-to-cut-40000-jobs-wsj-reports/
«1

Comments

  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Whatever they do that doesn't get them more bailout money I'm a-ok with.
  • denniskingdennisking Posts: 3,703 ✭✭✭
    they haven't cut any jobs as of yet, only a projection
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    Corporations aren't formed to provide jobs. You're myopic, phobic. I own a corporation. A corporation of 1. I do it to take advantage of the tax breaks. Call me names. At one time I hired 4 full time employees because of the ever growing workload. It reached the point where the healthcare, insurance and taxes that I had to pay was not worth what they were earning for the company. I now take less work and do it all by myself. Its called business. If you don't operate with a gain/loss mentality you fail. Everytime.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    You are right Beat----but that is also why there is still 9% unemployment. THOSE JOBS ARENT COMING BACK. Why dont people realize this? Business owners will do more...especially those with huge profits....to make more money and pay less people. With unemployment so high, they can also ensure people will not quit for fear of also being unemployed----so you have them by the balls and can make 1 person do the work for 3. Its not Obama and Dems, its not the Repubs and TeaBaggers....its just the way of the world now---and its class warfare. The jobs arent coming back, the middle class isnt coming back, and the shining city is now dimly lit-----deal with it.
  • beatnic:
    Corporations aren't formed to provide jobs. You're myopic, phobic. I own a corporation. A corporation of 1. I do it to take advantage of the tax breaks. Call me names. At one time I hired 4 full time employees because of the ever growing workload. It reached the point where the healthcare, insurance and taxes that I had to pay was not worth what they were earning for the company. I now take less work and do it all by myself. Its called business. If you don't operate with a gain/loss mentality you fail. Everytime.
    Well said. Public companies have a responsibility to their shareholders to make a profit. They're not around just to hand out jobs that aren't necessary.

    Another point: When you see projections about a company cutting 1,000 jobs, it doesn't mean that they're firing 1,000 people today. In a lot of cases, these are 1-2 year plans where they're just not hiring new employees. They have a lot of bankers - a position with very high turnover - so they'll let people leave on their own, and they just won't hire a new banker to replace them.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    Vulcher, you keep focusing on jobs. Wrong. Backasswards Focus on creating business. I build, he ships, he sells, he buys. Product to the consumer. When demand for the business increases the company will hire people, i.e.:jobs. Why do you think Alex and Tim shoot their own video, answer their own emails, phones. They could hire someone just to create a job. Capitalists of the highest degree!. My heroes. I hope they make a fortune.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    My heroes are teachers, fireman, police officers, research doctors, good parents, philantropists, people who look to better others, ect........but your feelings are that of many, your heros are people striving to make as many bucks as they can-----wonder why were f*cked?
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    You are right Beat----but that is also why there is still 9% unemployment. THOSE JOBS ARENT COMING BACK. Why dont people realize this? Business owners will do more...especially those with huge profits....to make more money and pay less people. With unemployment so high, they can also ensure people will not quit for fear of also being unemployed----so you have them by the balls and can make 1 person do the work for 3. Its not Obama and Dems, its not the Repubs and TeaBaggers....its just the way of the world now---and its class warfare. The jobs arent coming back, the middle class isnt coming back, and the shining city is now dimly lit-----deal with it.

    The American Dream is now dead?


    To me, the American Dream is being able to work hard, make good decisions, earn a living, raise a family and make a better life for yourself than generations before us. Part of that dream includes setting the stage for your children to do the same. That’s about it. Government is not involved in this scenario except to protect your rights and to prevent other people from interfering with your pursuit these dreams, free of harm.

    Just 18% of American adults believe that today’s children will be better off than their parents. This is just one point higher than the lowest level measured to date. Link

    What do you think about that, folks? In some ways, it feels as though we have failed at achieving the American Dream. Somewhere along the way, we got too caught up in living beyond our means, focusing on sports or entertainment or Facebook, and voting based on “coolness” and class warfare. Look at where our vain, moocher society has achieved: It has managed to foster a society in which only 18% of adults think that their children will be better off than they are. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that over half of Americans, 55%, no longer think it is possible for anyone in the United States to work hard and get rich.

    It has often been said that in America there is room for anyone at the top. Not everyone, but anyone. Apparently that mindset no longer exists. The value of hard work has been completely tossed down the crapper. What do we have to thank for it? Government. Our government has enabled a growing generation of moochers. Being a leach on society is no longer something to be ashamed of. In fact, it is encouraged! Meanwhile, being a business-owner, becoming wealthy .. these are the people that our government has chosen to punish the way of high taxes and demonize in the form of class warfare. It doesn’t take a psychologist to understand that you get more of the behavior you reward. So here we are. About the same number of Americans who don’t pay any income taxes in this country (51%) also believe that it is no longer possible to work hard and get rich in America (55%). With this kind of message being sent to our children, perhaps this poll is exactly right. Your children will not enjoy the same lifestyle you currently enjoy.

    One thing is for sure, America isn't going to be the same America I grew up or the America my parents grew up in if we don't make some big changes in Washington. Starting with the White House.
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    An easy fix to the %9 unemployment would be to cut unemployment (length not pay out) and welfare.
    And stop issuing work visas for a year or two.
    The number of unemployed americans would drastically drop.

    As long as theres a crutch people will use it.

  • wwhwangwwhwang Ottawa, ON, CanadaPosts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    stephen_hannibal:
    An easy fix to the %9 unemployment would be to cut unemployment (length not pay out) and welfare.
    And stop issuing work visas for a year or two.
    The number of unemployed americans would drastically drop.

    As long as theres a crutch people will use it.

    +1 to Stephen and Krieg. When you reward failure, then failure is all that you'll get.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    wwhwang:
    stephen_hannibal:
    An easy fix to the %9 unemployment would be to cut unemployment (length not pay out) and welfare.
    And stop issuing work visas for a year or two.
    The number of unemployed americans would drastically drop.

    As long as theres a crutch people will use it.

    +1 to Stephen and Krieg. When you reward failure, then failure is all that you'll get.
    wow.. It's really sad that some of you actually believe this. I mean millions of people that are out of a job is there fault. Sure some who are on it are lazy, same with welfare, hell people I work with are lazy too, doesn't mean they are all. I also find it really F'd up how some of you like to say that corporations are all about money and profits, sure that may be true but how the hell do you think this country will look if that is all that drives it? I mean already we have sunk in the bottom of the industrialized nations in terms of worker happiness, employment, and manufacturing. It almost is like, corporations can do no wrong but people, oh well they are expendable.

    So when/BOA lets these people go or other large banks/biz (who mind you took billions of our taxpayer dollars) it's because they don't need to make jobs, it's all about profits. That is such a f'd mentality. Why do these huge corporations who make billions of dollars of profit and pay little to no taxes cut their damn huge salaries or golden parachutes? Why don't they start thinking that they aren't gods of the universe. Oh it's easier to fire slaves. Hell paying people the same wages as in china would be great for corporations, but I doubt any of you would want it. Hell those of us who have our business will be out of business if no one can afford our services, the other huge corporations will just leave and then use this country just like America has used other third world countries. I guess many of you just like the idea of regression than progression. SAD.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    Perfectly fine with stopping work visas... Also fine with bringing nearly all immigration to a halt immediately.

    And Pheebs....losing battle my friend. So long as people vote religion before sense....we lose. So long as people in the south (and other places certainly) vote republican when they dont have a pit to p!sss in...we lose.
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    Also, and not to derail this thead. We are dealing with a place where we have a Republican leader...maybe the most well know Governor in the US....denying climate change and instead praying to god (aka a rain dance if people in other countries so it)-----so hat happens?? The state starts on fire. Divine Intervention?????
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    oh holy crap!!
    phobicsquirrel:
    wow.. It's really sad that some of you actually believe this.
    what is REALLY sad is that there are people that believe that if you pay people to be unemployed it will help the economy and solve the problem. there is study after study that shows that the closer people get to the end of unemployment benefits, the more likely they are to get off their ass and get a job.

    while on the topic of being sad, it is sad that people that create jobs for others are demonized and spat upon when they have to make cuts because the government has made a regulation that makes their business harder and more costly to run.

    it is just like a Fascist (someone that supports a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc.,) to blame the private company for a problem that the government caused just so that there can be more regulations.
    that is pathetic and sad.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I mean millions of people that are out of a job is there fault. Sure some who are on it are lazy, same with welfare, hell people I work with are lazy too, doesn't mean they are all. I also find it really F'd up how some of you like to say that corporations are all about money and profits, sure that may be true but how the hell do you think this country will look if that is all that drives it?
    conversly, how do you think the country will work if that is NOT what drives it?
    people are not going to work out of love for their fellow man. this has been proven time and again. corporations are not in existence to give people jobs. they never were. they are there to do one thing: Create wealth.
    if you believe otherwise, or try to run a business based on any thing else you will fail.
    however, if you do start a business up, i would love to work for you. why? because im sure i could weasel you out of thousands as long as i had some sob story to give you about how my family needs it. if you object ill just call you an evil corporation holding me down. if you stuck to your principals you would give me the money, even if it meant that your company would go under.
    im a good worker even. im not lazy. ill just take that right out of the equation. it doesnt matter at all if i am lazy.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I mean already we have sunk in the bottom of the industrialized nations in terms of worker happiness, employment, and manufacturing.
    not quite the bottom, but i get your point.

    you still think its because corporations are evil? or is it because we have to squeeze more out of each employee due to burdensome regulations and the highest corporate tax rate in the world?

    oh wait... taxes are supposed to be a good thing.
    phobicsquirrel:
    It almost is like, corporations can do no wrong but people, oh well they are expendable.
    corporations can do wrong. and they do. and when they violate rights, they should be punished. laying people off is not evil. its not violating rights. nobody has a right to a job. you have a right to seek work. you dont have a right to have work.

    phobicsquirrel:
    So when/BOA lets these people go or other large banks/biz (who mind you took billions of our taxpayer dollars) it's because they don't need to make jobs, it's all about profits. That is such a f'd mentality.
    it is the only mentality that will make any business survive. as said before, businesses do not exist to make jobs. they exist to create wealth. that isnt a messed up mentality. that is the mentality that makes a successful business.

    damnit squirrel... why dont you start a business and hire me? i want you as a boss so bad. you will never lay me off even if you have no money to exist. and i will get amazing health care for free because you will exist as a company to serve me, your employee. its gunna be awesome. i cant wait. please please, hire me.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Why do these huge corporations who make billions of dollars of profit and pay little to no taxes cut their damn huge salaries or golden parachutes?
    because they are worth more than that. they went to school, got degrees, made amazing decisions and worked countless hours. if i did all of that, i may be where they are and i would then have a skill set that commands that salary.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Why don't they start thinking that they aren't gods of the universe. Oh it's easier to fire slaves.
    there are no slaves in the US. everyone that is employed at a corporation has entered that job on their own free will. they can leave if they want at any point they want. they can seek another job or start their own business. or they can be like me and have a corporate job AND start their own business.
    these evil "gods of the universe" as you call them, provide a damn fine quality of life compared to almost every other nation on earth, yet you call the people slaves.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Hell paying people the same wages as in china would be great for corporations, but I doubt any of you would want it.
    holy crap. you almost made a good point on how capitalism is good.

    lets assume that there is no such thing as a minimum wage.
    If i walk into a restaurant that is looking for a new cook and they like me but they offer to pay me $2.50 an hour i will turn and laugh as i walk out the door. Everyone else will to. even you said it in your last quoted block. I will only accept a job that is paying me what i believe my skill set commands. with my experience as a cook and a manager i can command WAY more than $2.50/hr. people like me will drive the price they need to pay someone up. the corporation cannot make any money if they have no workers.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Hell those of us who have our business will be out of business if no one can afford our services, the other huge corporations will just leave and then use this country just like America has used other third world countries.
    i have no idea what you are talking about here. seriously. i enjoy your passion, but im just lost here. im not sure where it came from. im not sure what your point was supposed to be.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I guess many of you just like the idea of regression than progression. SAD.
    regression... like china and the huge percentage of poor people there? or cuba who has "amazing health care" but the people live in a third world lifestyle? like the Greeks who's country is falling apart because there everyone has a right to a job and the government has regulated and spent them all to hell? like Spain who is falling apart for almost the same reasons that Greece is?
    if progression is riots in the street because "Mother Country" wont coddle me and give me everything i need in life, then i hope we regress as far as we can.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    Until some scientist shows me the correlation between increased CO2 and temperature, I'll believe man-mad global warming is a hoax. I think those who believe this are science deniers. Don't tell me "most scientists, or the scientific community, or environmentalists, etc say this or that. Bunk science. No scientist can provide you with proof, a formula, a theory, a conclusion. You know, the stuff that makes it science. Did you hear about the scientists that fudged their data to get more funding? The polar bear scientist who lied. These are their key people. I have an MS in Geology, not exactly weather, but I understand the scientific process. and none of these bozos followed it. I know this will tick some folk off. Some might respond. Don't ridicule or even sight some one. Tell me science. Oh, by the way, in case you haven't heard, it has been scientifically proven that sun spot activity affects the temperature of the earth. Proven. CO2? NOT1!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    oh holy crap!!
    phobicsquirrel:
    wow.. It's really sad that some of you actually believe this.
    what is REALLY sad is that there are people that believe that if you pay people to be unemployed it will help the economy and solve the problem. there is study after study that shows that the closer people get to the end of unemployment benefits, the more likely they are to get off their ass and get a job.

    while on the topic of being sad, it is sad that people that create jobs for others are demonized and spat upon when they have to make cuts because the government has made a regulation that makes their business harder and more costly to run.

    it is just like a Fascist (someone that supports a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc.,) to blame the private company for a problem that the government caused just so that there can be more regulations.
    that is pathetic and sad.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I mean millions of people that are out of a job is there fault. Sure some who are on it are lazy, same with welfare, hell people I work with are lazy too, doesn't mean they are all. I also find it really F'd up how some of you like to say that corporations are all about money and profits, sure that may be true but how the hell do you think this country will look if that is all that drives it?
    conversly, how do you think the country will work if that is NOT what drives it?
    people are not going to work out of love for their fellow man. this has been proven time and again. corporations are not in existence to give people jobs. they never were. they are there to do one thing: Create wealth.
    if you believe otherwise, or try to run a business based on any thing else you will fail.
    however, if you do start a business up, i would love to work for you. why? because im sure i could weasel you out of thousands as long as i had some sob story to give you about how my family needs it. if you object ill just call you an evil corporation holding me down. if you stuck to your principals you would give me the money, even if it meant that your company would go under.
    im a good worker even. im not lazy. ill just take that right out of the equation. it doesnt matter at all if i am lazy.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I mean already we have sunk in the bottom of the industrialized nations in terms of worker happiness, employment, and manufacturing.
    not quite the bottom, but i get your point.

    you still think its because corporations are evil? or is it because we have to squeeze more out of each employee due to burdensome regulations and the highest corporate tax rate in the world?

    oh wait... taxes are supposed to be a good thing.
    phobicsquirrel:
    It almost is like, corporations can do no wrong but people, oh well they are expendable.
    corporations can do wrong. and they do. and when they violate rights, they should be punished. laying people off is not evil. its not violating rights. nobody has a right to a job. you have a right to seek work. you dont have a right to have work.

    phobicsquirrel:
    So when/BOA lets these people go or other large banks/biz (who mind you took billions of our taxpayer dollars) it's because they don't need to make jobs, it's all about profits. That is such a f'd mentality.
    it is the only mentality that will make any business survive. as said before, businesses do not exist to make jobs. they exist to create wealth. that isnt a messed up mentality. that is the mentality that makes a successful business.

    damnit squirrel... why dont you start a business and hire me? i want you as a boss so bad. you will never lay me off even if you have no money to exist. and i will get amazing health care for free because you will exist as a company to serve me, your employee. its gunna be awesome. i cant wait. please please, hire me.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Why do these huge corporations who make billions of dollars of profit and pay little to no taxes cut their damn huge salaries or golden parachutes?
    because they are worth more than that. they went to school, got degrees, made amazing decisions and worked countless hours. if i did all of that, i may be where they are and i would then have a skill set that commands that salary.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Why don't they start thinking that they aren't gods of the universe. Oh it's easier to fire slaves.
    there are no slaves in the US. everyone that is employed at a corporation has entered that job on their own free will. they can leave if they want at any point they want. they can seek another job or start their own business. or they can be like me and have a corporate job AND start their own business.
    these evil "gods of the universe" as you call them, provide a damn fine quality of life compared to almost every other nation on earth, yet you call the people slaves.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Hell paying people the same wages as in china would be great for corporations, but I doubt any of you would want it.
    holy crap. you almost made a good point on how capitalism is good.

    lets assume that there is no such thing as a minimum wage.
    If i walk into a restaurant that is looking for a new cook and they like me but they offer to pay me $2.50 an hour i will turn and laugh as i walk out the door. Everyone else will to. even you said it in your last quoted block. I will only accept a job that is paying me what i believe my skill set commands. with my experience as a cook and a manager i can command WAY more than $2.50/hr. people like me will drive the price they need to pay someone up. the corporation cannot make any money if they have no workers.
    phobicsquirrel:
    Hell those of us who have our business will be out of business if no one can afford our services, the other huge corporations will just leave and then use this country just like America has used other third world countries.
    i have no idea what you are talking about here. seriously. i enjoy your passion, but im just lost here. im not sure where it came from. im not sure what your point was supposed to be.
    phobicsquirrel:
    I guess many of you just like the idea of regression than progression. SAD.
    regression... like china and the huge percentage of poor people there? or cuba who has "amazing health care" but the people live in a third world lifestyle? like the Greeks who's country is falling apart because there everyone has a right to a job and the government has regulated and spent them all to hell? like Spain who is falling apart for almost the same reasons that Greece is?
    if progression is riots in the street because "Mother Country" wont coddle me and give me everything i need in life, then i hope we regress as far as we can.
    wow, I'm not going to go over this all again with you and your BS. But I will point out one thing, unemployed people use almost all of their money in their immediate economy. It's really sad, almost pathetic that people actually have such a empty moral center that they can't accept the fact that if our neighbors fail, WE FAIL! From what I have gathered over the course of some time many of you, Kuzi you are one of them who really have no idea how economics work. Have a select number of huge companies and rich people does not make a great country. If the people who created our roads, our manufacturing, or Middle class, fda, epa, medicare, SS, and many other programs had the same ideology that you guys have we would have nothing what this country has now, and those of you who are in their 50's and higher wouldn't have had the opportunities you now enjoy, especially those of you who are are on medicare and SS. I mean as meager as it is right now at least its something.

    If these current economic policies actually worked than this country should be better than it ever was. I mean the wealthy have the lowest tax rates in decades, large corporations are sitting on record number stock piles of cash but somehow they keep laying off people in droves, taking jobs out of this country and steal our tax dollars. But hey it'll trickle down........ some day right. These very policies, this business should maximize profits no matter what mentality has torn this institution down, Wall Street was the beginning, It'll probably happen again as not much has changed.

    I bet you think that the debt this country has is really that important? Well compared to Great Britain the dollar is stronger and we have less debt to gdp than Japan and they aren't killing their economy. In fact they are building it up. Just like china, however we are lagging behind. We will become the China of the 20th century if things don't change. Won't that be great. The greatest nation on earth lasting a wimpy couple hundred years, while a communist country comes out ahead, thanks to the very nation who funded it, America.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    beatnic:
    Until some scientist shows me the correlation between increased CO2 and temperature, I'll believe man-mad global warming is a hoax. I think those who believe this are science deniers. Don't tell me "most scientists, or the scientific community, or environmentalists, etc say this or that. Bunk science. No scientist can provide you with proof, a formula, a theory, a conclusion. You know, the stuff that makes it science. Did you hear about the scientists that fudged their data to get more funding? The polar bear scientist who lied. These are their key people. I have an MS in Geology, not exactly weather, but I understand the scientific process. and none of these bozos followed it. I know this will tick some folk off. Some might respond. Don't ridicule or even sight some one. Tell me science. Oh, by the way, in case you haven't heard, it has been scientifically proven that sun spot activity affects the temperature of the earth. Proven. CO2? NOT1!
    Most of the scientific community agrees on man made global warming, you just refuse to believe them, oh wait they are all getting massive amounts of money for saying that. God forbid they are wrong, nothing better than cleaner air and waterways.... (though it should be mentioned that they don't attribute all of it to man, but a lot of it as naturally the globe will warm itself but we are speeding up the process)

    And one of the ways many scientists recommend changing the climate on mars would be to produce massive amounts of co2. Thus warming the planet.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    "Most of the scientific community" There you go again. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Here's a little science for you to chew on.
    http://www.iceagenow.com/Looming_Threat_of_Global_Cooling.htm
    I can put up more scientific articles if you would like. All of them disproving man-mad global warming, or proving natural warming. I've been challenging people for years and no one has been able to provide me with a peer-reviewd scientific paper, study, formula, anything that even hints that increased CO2 in our atmosphere causes the atmosphere to heat up.
    Oh and as far as "believing the scientific community" Hogwash. The scientific community is required to PROVE science, not make an educated guess or just believe another guy because he is a scientist. I am held to that standard everyday. Now, you can throw in the lines about clean air and water. You can site example after example of where man is destroying his environment. Acid rain, pesticides in the rivers and aquifers, industrial waste... Yes, man has been a poor steward of his surroundings at times.
    But "manmade global warming", as professed by the left and progressives, is merely a tool for them to use.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    wow, I'm not going to go over this all again with you and your BS.
    again, i hope i work for you so you can help me all the time. if you dont help me you are evil. infact, you are evil because you are not paying me right now. i can use the help.
    phobicsquirrel:
    But I will point out one thing, unemployed people use almost all of their money in their immediate economy.
    yes, you are right about that. you are forgetting one thing though: unemployed people are not creating wealth. that is the basis of any economy. you dont understand that but you have the nerve to say this:
    phobicsquirrel:
    It's really sad, almost pathetic that people actually have such a empty moral center that they can't accept the fact that if our neighbors fail, WE FAIL! From what I have gathered over the course of some time many of you, Kuzi you are one of them who really have no idea how economics work.
    i mean seriously. can you explain to me how a country does well or a person does well or an economy does well without creating wealth?
    and i have an "empty moral center?" really? it comes to insults? i am immoral because i dont want to take money away from people by force that have earned it in a legal and non rights violating fashion and give it to people that do not create wealth? some people call that "theft." and dont give me the "there are some people that CANT" crap. that argument fails every time you try it because there are MANY MANY systems that help with that that you always choose to ignore AND because those are not the people i am talking about and you know it. get off your moral high horse. a socialized society is an immoral one because of the way the state violates the rights of those who succeed by taking their wealth.
    the only solution is freedom to keep what you earn.


    you may want to ponder this:

    Do you believe that it is moral and just for one person to be forcibly used to serve the purposes of another? And, if that person does not peaceably submit to being so used, do you believe that there should be the initiation of some kind of force against him? Neither question is complex and can be answered by either a yes or no. For me the answer is no to both questions but I bet that your average college professor, politician or minister would not give a simple yes or no response. They would be evasive and probably say that it all depends.

    In thinking about questions of morality, my initial premise is that I am my private property and you are your private property. That's simple. What's complex is what percentage of me belongs to someone else. If we accept the idea of self-ownership, then certain acts are readily revealed as moral or immoral. Acts such as rape and murder are immoral because they violate one's private property rights. Theft of the physical things that we own, such as cars, jewelry and money, also violates our ownership rights.

    The reason why your college professor, politician or minister cannot give a simple yes or no answer to the question of whether one person should be used to serve the purposes of another is because they are sly enough to know that either answer would be troublesome for their agenda. A yes answer would put them firmly in the position of supporting some of mankind's most horrible injustices such as slavery. After all, what is slavery but the forcible use of one person to serve the purposes of another? A no answer would put them on the spot as well because that would mean they would have to come out against taking the earnings of one American to give to another in the forms of farm and business handouts, Medicare, Medicaid, food stamps and thousands of similar programs that account for more than two-thirds of the federal budget. There is neither moral justification nor constitutional authority for what amounts to legalized theft. This is not an argument against paying taxes. We all have a moral obligation to pay our share of the constitutionally mandated and enumerated functions of the federal government.

    Unfortunately, there is no way out of our immoral quagmire. The reason is that now that the U.S. Congress has established the principle that one American has a right to live at the expense of another American, it no longer pays to be moral. People who choose to be moral and refuse congressional handouts will find themselves losers. They'll be paying higher and higher taxes to support increasing numbers of those paying lower and lower taxes. As it stands now, close to 50 percent of income earners have no federal income tax liability and as such, what do they care about rising income taxes? In other words, once legalized theft begins, it becomes too costly to remain moral and self-sufficient. You might as well join in the looting, including the current looting in the name of stimulating the economy.
  • wwesternwwestern Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭
    Absolutely beautiful read Kuzi.

    Although I disagree with your last paragraph. The country as a whole will realize they've been had by this two party system. Both parties leading to the same thing: total government dependancy, one in the name of safety and the other in the name of freebies. The last 10 years have made this cycle seem more like a race track.

    image

    Sad part is the founders of this country warned us of everything happening yet it's still going down.
    Hopefully we can break the cycle by utilizing what faith and courage we have left to build our image
    (yes I know I'm a shameless Ron Paul ****.)
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    wwestern:
    Absolutely beautiful read Kuzi.
    it wasnt me actually. it is Walter E williams. he just puts it better than i would have.


    i would like to take this time to apologize though.

    i am not usually one to get in on political debate here (well, anymore at least).
    the reason i got out of it was because i was at one point posting more politics than cigars stuff. this is a cigar forum. i like it like that. that being said, i will creep back to the shadows on the political crap and i will make 100% of my final post to the 10k post contest about what they should be: Cigars.
    22 to go
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    martyrdom
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    martyrdom
    how so?
    "martyrdom" implies that i have lost or i am a victim. I have not and i am not.
    or did you have to get the last jab?
    i think i just hit the nail on the head. do what you gotta do.

  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    beatnic:
    Until some scientist shows me the correlation between increased CO2 and temperature, I'll believe man-mad global warming is a hoax.
    Like yourself, I also work in the scientific field where provable, repeatable and factual are all that matter. I have yet to see a convincing argument for global warming either.

    The global warmers always talk about how our temps have increased 2 or 3 degrees in the last hundred years. Well, those numbers are based on calculations built on estimations which means that they have a limiting factor called "statistical significance." Until I see a confidence interval to go along with the purported numbers then I'll know for sure that there is no truth behind it.

    I'm guessing that if a confidence interval was even calculated that it's probably so big that it nullifies the argument based on uncertainty. In other words, it's nearly equally as likely that we are in global cooling as that we are in global warming.

    JDE

  • JonathanEJonathanE Posts: 401
    kuzi16:
    it is the only mentality that will make any business survive. as said before, businesses do not exist to make jobs. they exist to create wealth. that isnt a messed up mentality. that is the mentality that makes a successful business.
    What is sad is that you actually had to SAY that "out loud!"

    Kuzi, I appreciate your sensitivity to the purpose of this forum but your political postings are as good as your cigar postings and this is the "Non Cigar Related" side.

    What do you do when you smoke cigars with friends? You argue about politics! ...at least sometimes. Cigar forum? ...sometimes talk about politics!

    I vote for Kuzi!

    JDE

  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    JonathanE:
    kuzi16:
    it is the only mentality that will make any business survive. as said before, businesses do not exist to make jobs. they exist to create wealth. that isnt a messed up mentality. that is the mentality that makes a successful business.
    What is sad is that you actually had to SAY that "out loud!"

    Kuzi, I appreciate your sensitivity to the purpose of this forum but your political postings are as good as your cigar postings and this is the "Non Cigar Related" side.

    What do you do when you smoke cigars with friends? You argue about politics! ...at least sometimes. Cigar forum? ...sometimes talk about politics!

    I vote for Kuzi!

    JDE

    +1...
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    A little food for thought.



  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,826 ✭✭✭
    This would be getting the last jab-----jab.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    Wow, real science (political, economic, and natural) all in one thread!
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,092 ✭✭✭
    JonathanE:
    beatnic:
    Until some scientist shows me the correlation between increased CO2 and temperature, I'll believe man-mad global warming is a hoax.
    Like yourself, I also work in the scientific field where provable, repeatable and factual are all that matter. I have yet to see a convincing argument for global warming either.

    The global warmers always talk about how our temps have increased 2 or 3 degrees in the last hundred years. Well, those numbers are based on calculations built on estimations which means that they have a limiting factor called "statistical significance." Until I see a confidence interval to go along with the purported numbers then I'll know for sure that there is no truth behind it.

    I'm guessing that if a confidence interval was even calculated that it's probably so big that it nullifies the argument based on uncertainty. In other words, it's nearly equally as likely that we are in global cooling as that we are in global warming.

    JDE

    With all the global warming non sense being talked about, there always been one question I have asked that a "warmer" can't seem answer. What is the earth's ideal temperature ?
Sign In or Register to comment.