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Taste differences in Size??

90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
I've been doing a lot of reading and research trying to become a little more schooled and trying to understand some of the subtler nuances of the finer sticks and I came across something that piqued my interest and made sense but I have never experienced. I came acroos it in "Nat Sherman's; A Passion For Cigars" and said that the taste of the cigar can vary GREATLY just from size to size in the same line and same filler/binder/wrapper. I can't say that I have noticed that large of a difference in my experience, and was curious if it is simply because my palate isn't as refined as others...? I've noticed subtle differences between the churchill RP Vintage 1990, the torpedo, and the robusto. And yes, all were of the maduro wrapper to keep with consitancy. Try to become a little wiser and less "noob" so to speak. --Jarman
"When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
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Comments

  • The SniperThe Sniper Posts: 3,910
    Well if you think about it, different ring gauges are going to give you different wrapper (where most of the flavor you taste is at) to filler (where most of your body is at) ratios. If your ring gauge is smaller, with each puff you will be getting more wrapper compared to your filler, and less wrapper to filler in larger ring gauge cigars. Hence, the flavor profile and your experience with a particular stick can change with different ring gauges.

    That being said, there are some blenders and manufacturer's out there who are skilled enough that the difference between sizes of the same stick is minimal and sometimes not even noticed at all. Fuente Anejo's come to mind immediately.

    Hope this helped instead of confused. :-)

  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Absolutely, and like I said it makes perfect sense based purely on the fact that there is much larger cross sections, and also more surface area depending on the size. So yeah it makes total sense, I just can't say I have honestly noticed that large of a difference... --Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • rynerryner Posts: 14
    Hmm, I think that the reason, you didn't really get a heaven and earth kinda difference is because the ring gauges are rather similar (48, 50 and 52) for the 3 vitolas you had.

    In my opinion, you would almost definitely taste a difference when comparing let's say a corona vs a 60 ring gauge monster.

    Cheers. :)

  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    90+ Irishman:
    I've been doing a lot of reading and research trying to become a little more schooled and trying to understand some of the subtler nuances of the finer sticks and I came across something that piqued my interest and made sense but I have never experienced. I came acroos it in "Nat Sherman's; A Passion For Cigars" and said that the taste of the cigar can vary GREATLY just from size to size in the same line and same filler/binder/wrapper. I can't say that I have noticed that large of a difference in my experience, and was curious if it is simply because my palate isn't as refined as others...? I've noticed subtle differences between the churchill RP Vintage 1990, the torpedo, and the robusto. And yes, all were of the maduro wrapper to keep with consitancy. Try to become a little wiser and less "noob" so to speak. --Jarman
    have you read through my Blending 101 thread?

    much of this is kinda covered in there. it talks about ring gauge and length, and how that effects the smoke.


    one thing that is not in that thread (yet, im working on that actually) is how longer cigars of one ring will taste different than shorter smokes with the same ring based not on how the filler leaves are bunched in relation to what part of the leaf you are smoking, but rather based on how the smoke from the lit foot interacts with the unburnt tobacco.


    as the cigar gets shorter and shorter the smoke interacts with less and less filler before it hits your palate. these filler leaves, however, are covered with more and more of the particulates that filter out in the leaves. both effect the cigar as you burn through them.

    the demonstration that i have been meaning to do is to buy a hand full of churchills and smoke one from full length, cut an inch off the foot of the next one, another inch off the food of the next one and so forth. this will allow me to understand how the above concepts change the cigar as it goes on base off of what the original tastes like at the point that i cut it.


  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    90+ Irishman:
    I've been doing a lot of reading and research trying to become a little more schooled and trying to understand some of the subtler nuances of the finer sticks and I came across something that piqued my interest and made sense but I have never experienced. I came acroos it in "Nat Sherman's; A Passion For Cigars" and said that the taste of the cigar can vary GREATLY just from size to size in the same line and same filler/binder/wrapper. I can't say that I have noticed that large of a difference in my experience, and was curious if it is simply because my palate isn't as refined as others...? I've noticed subtle differences between the churchill RP Vintage 1990, the torpedo, and the robusto. And yes, all were of the maduro wrapper to keep with consitancy. Try to become a little wiser and less "noob" so to speak. --Jarman
    have you read through my Blending 101 thread?

    much of this is kinda covered in there. it talks about ring gauge and length, and how that effects the smoke.


    one thing that is not in that thread (yet, im working on that actually) is how longer cigars of one ring will taste different than shorter smokes with the same ring based not on how the filler leaves are bunched in relation to what part of the leaf you are smoking, but rather based on how the smoke from the lit foot interacts with the unburnt tobacco.


    as the cigar gets shorter and shorter the smoke interacts with less and less filler before it hits your palate. these filler leaves, however, are covered with more and more of the particulates that filter out in the leaves. both effect the cigar as you burn through them.

    the demonstration that i have been meaning to do is to buy a hand full of churchills and smoke one from full length, cut an inch off the foot of the next one, another inch off the food of the next one and so forth. this will allow me to understand how the above concepts change the cigar as it goes on base off of what the original tastes like at the point that i cut it.


    That would be absolutely amazing to see! And like I said, the book Nat Sherman covered taht exactly, I just can't say that I have had any experience of that myself. But I am certainly a science geekoid and talking about this stuff is very very cool to me. I guess it would have to be to do four years at School of Mines lol... really got me into exactly what we are talking about right now! On a side note, I would have to imagine it is much more pronounced in a oscuro wrapper or even a ligero due to the much higher concentration of oils. Any thoughts?? -- Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,634 ✭✭✭✭
    90+ Irishman:
    I would have to imagine it is much more pronounced in a oscuro wrapper or even a ligero due to the much higher concentration of oils. Any thoughts?? -- Jarman
    maybe.

    the wrapper gives most of the flavor to any well blended cigar, even mild ones.
    just because there is a Connecticut wrapper doesnt mean the differences wont be noticeable. i like to think of it in terms of ratios. the oils in the wrapper to the oils in the fillers ratio to be exact. there are proportionality the same amount of oils in the wrapper of a mild cigar as there are in the wrapper of a fuller cigar in relationship to the oils in the filler. if this was not the case, the cigar may not be balanced or could be one dimensional.

    this may or may not bring up another issue. do the above mentioned concepts change according to ring? maybe. iduno. as i said last post, this is an undeveloped concept in my head. it is not something that i have tested on my own or read of any other person doing.




    yet...

  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    90+ Irishman:
    I would have to imagine it is much more pronounced in a oscuro wrapper or even a ligero due to the much higher concentration of oils. Any thoughts?? -- Jarman
    maybe.

    the wrapper gives most of the flavor to any well blended cigar, even mild ones.
    just because there is a Connecticut wrapper doesnt mean the differences wont be noticeable. i like to think of it in terms of ratios. the oils in the wrapper to the oils in the fillers ratio to be exact. there are proportionality the same amount of oils in the wrapper of a mild cigar as there are in the wrapper of a fuller cigar in relationship to the oils in the filler. if this was not the case, the cigar may not be balanced or could be one dimensional.

    this may or may not bring up another issue. do the above mentioned concepts change according to ring? maybe. iduno. as i said last post, this is an undeveloped concept in my head. it is not something that i have tested on my own or read of any other person doing.




    yet...

    I think you are on to something, I still have a good relationship with many of the fluid dynamic professor's and bio-chem profs from Mines, so I might have to drop them a line and see if they can shed some light on this concept. I'd really enjoy delving into this further with you. Definitely have sparked a lot of curiousty in your points... I say we mission and reconvene. --Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • The_KidThe_Kid Posts: 7,871 ✭✭✭
    I asked my GF if she notices any difference in taste with different size sticks,, She looked at me with a smile and asked why I wanted to know.. I began to tell her that another guy ......oh forget it.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    HAHAHAHAHA... beautiful!!! You got a realllll keeper there sir for sure!
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.
    Sounds like a truly fun experiment with rewarding results my friend :) Please keep me in the loop and if there is a way to digitize your notes I would love a copy of them. I'd be very interested in putting together some type of results and really trying to pin down the subtle and not so subtle differences between just different sizes alone. Thanks a bunch for the assist! -- Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • 90+ Irishman:
    howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.
    Sounds like a truly fun experiment with rewarding results my friend :) Please keep me in the loop and if there is a way to digitize your notes I would love a copy of them. I'd be very interested in putting together some type of results and really trying to pin down the subtle and not so subtle differences between just different sizes alone. Thanks a bunch for the assist! -- Jarman
    Indeed my friend!
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    BTW sorry for the off topic, but just read that you are currently deployed... just have to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for serving our country my brother. If you can PM me an addy and best way to send stuff to you while deployed, you'll be gladly surprised... be well and be safe, just whatever you do come back stateside safe and sound soldier! -- Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • 90+ Irishman:
    BTW sorry for the off topic, but just read that you are currently deployed... just have to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for serving our country my brother. If you can PM me an addy and best way to send stuff to you while deployed, you'll be gladly surprised... be well and be safe, just whatever you do come back stateside safe and sound soldier! -- Jarman
    Like many enlisted, it is our pleasure. I would love for you to send some here, but I already have some coming in to last me the rest of my duration. I'll be making my way back sometime in November, so when I get home, we can do a trade once I get my inventory up. Thank you very much though. Take care!
  • RhamlinRhamlin WVPosts: 7,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Definetly , I tend to like 50-54 gauge. I have bought some of my faves in a 60 ring thinking they would be even better only to be let down.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nothing to thank my good man! Sounds like a plan though, glad you are going to be back sooner rather than later, be well and be safe! -- Jarman
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat West TNPosts: 5,398 ✭✭✭✭✭
    howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.
    Regarding finding a cigar you "actually enjoy", take time to look back through the threads to find out how to use your nose, this is paramount to truly being able to enjoy/appreciate a cigar.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "There is nothing so in need of reforming as someone else's bad habits."   Mark Twain
  • Amos Umwhat:
    howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.
    Regarding finding a cigar you "actually enjoy", take time to look back through the threads to find out how to use your nose, this is paramount to truly being able to enjoy/appreciate a cigar.
    I found a thread talking about tasting similar products side by side, ie: coffee, nuts ect. so that way you can really have an idea for that taste/smell. I thought it to be very interesting. I plan on doing this and anything else that will help me along the way for sure. Thanks for your advice!
  • howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.



    I'm kinda the opposite. I have found the sizes I enjoy, and so now I'm trying to find cigars I like in the size. I've tried different sizes, and some of them just "feel too small" to me. I like the bigger rings, so now the search is on for a good overall smoke.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hmm, I guess I really am just that easy to please. I've had some cigars that I don't much care for but overall I really can find something I like and truly enjol just about any cigar so long as I'm not overpowered with bitterness of pepper. Guess I'm just weird, or still have a very un-matured palate.
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • DeadBoxJD:
    howtobass:
    LOL. Nice one Kid..... But when it comes to taste, once I actually find a cigar I enjoy, which hopefully will be soon, I plan on getting all the different sizes for that one cigar and to smoke and take notes.



    I'm kinda the opposite. I have found the sizes I enjoy, and so now I'm trying to find cigars I like in the size. I've tried different sizes, and some of them just "feel too small" to me. I like the bigger rings, so now the search is on for a good overall smoke.
    I think thats going to be my tactic as well. If i can find two cigars I like, and then try the sizes for each of those two cigars, that would be great if the one's I like the best are the same size. Then I can shop for those size cigars. I would imagine that you will have different favorite sizes for different brands though.
  • Yeah, kinda the same way here. I've found the coronas just feel too small in my hands. They feel like a fat cigarette to me...nothing against them or the flavor, I just prefer a bigger ring size. When I order samplers, I try to find those that have the smokes in the thicker sizes.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • JudoChinXJudoChinX Posts: 775
    Toro is quickly becoming my favorite size.
  • Lakota72Lakota72 Posts: 1,267
    90+ Irishman:
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    Lasabar do you want to take this one?
  • Lakota72:
    90+ Irishman:
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    Lasabar do you want to take this one?
    LOL.... here it comes.....
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    howtobass:
    Lakota72:
    90+ Irishman:
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    Lasabar do you want to take this one?
    LOL.... here it comes.....
    Oh no... did no think that one through before I hit the post button.... this could hurt. LOL
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • Lakota72Lakota72 Posts: 1,267
    90+ Irishman:
    howtobass:
    Lakota72:
    90+ Irishman:
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    Lasabar do you want to take this one?
    LOL.... here it comes.....
    Oh no... did no think that one through before I hit the post button.... this could hurt. LOL
    Probably will. Lasabar is the best at this stuff.
  • 90+_Irishman90+_Irishman Loveland, COPosts: 12,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It would be completely unfair to go back and change it, so I'm just gonna take my lumps and smile lol.... for my next great act I think I'll go lick my wounds in the corner...
    "When walking in open territory bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask them to stop. If they do not stop, destroy them."
  • Lakota72Lakota72 Posts: 1,267
    90+ Irishman:
    I generally tend towards 49 or larger, really sinking my teeth into 50's or 52's. Just like a fatter cigar, seems to fit into my hands better.
    Don't think I have ever heard someone talk about cigars like that. Not sure how I feel about the sinking teeth part. Ummmm....you were talking about cigars right? Lol. Awkward
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