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Online cigars sales.....in jeopardy, or not?

I'm being lazy, and hope a few of the botl who are following this can give me a quick-n-dirty on this issue.

Is there a threat to online cigar sales as we know and enjoy it now?

If so, and online sales are banned, or whatever........ will we know ahead of time so we can "stock up"?

(I like B&Ms, but, around here at least, their prices are simply brutal, and I can't afford to buy from them for the most part.)
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    bigharpoonbigharpoon Posts: 2,963 ✭✭✭
    Are you referencing something specific, like the Maryland tax?
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's not sounding good according to CRA. The FDA is really wanting to take a heavy hand against premium cigars and basically lump them and pipe tobacco all in one package with cigarettes. They don't see a difference. But more and more people in the govt are getting behind the bills to exempt premium cigars and cigar shops. Shelly Moore Capito from my state just allied herself with our side.
    If you read this Alex we'd love to get your take on it. Is it as dire as it sounds? Would really hate to lose CCOM.
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    CvilleECvilleE Posts: 1,594 ✭✭✭
    I'd like to hear Alex's side on this matter. Many of us has responded to our state Reps..but what is the real scoop...I don't have a B&M...and without ccom how would I get smokes? Serious issue...
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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In case you haven't already seen or done this....there's an easy form you can fill out and it will automatically send an email to your congressmen.
    Check it out here.

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    blurrblurr Posts: 962 ✭✭
    I used that form, who knows how much it helps but everyone should fill out and email that to their congressmen.
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    DirewolfDirewolf Posts: 3,493
    I sent one off too. Every little bit helps, right?
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Every voice helps. I hope.
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    skweekzskweekz Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭
    I'll be getting letters in the mail tomorrow.
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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    FYI.....I just received this e-mail response from one of my state Senators. Now I'm thoroughly confused on this matter.
    He says that the "Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act exempts premium cigars from FDA regulation"
    But then at the end he says "FDA determines the treatment of premium cigars under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act"

    So cigars exempted from FDA regulation in one act but can be regulated by the FDA through a different act?!?!???
    Maybe I'm missing something or my brain's just not working today...but does anyone else understand this? I'm lost....
    Thank you for getting in touch with me regarding S.1461, the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act.

    The Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act would exempt premium and traditional cigars from regulation by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). I appreciate your concern that FDA regulation could hurt small businesses and that these types of cigars are a niche product in the tobacco market.

    The Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act — passed with strong bipartisan support in 2009 — is intended to address the serious economic and public health issue tobacco use causes for Ohio and the nation. Tobacco-related illnesses kill approximately 20,000 Ohioans every year, according to the Ohio Department of Health. One out of every six Ohio Medicaid dollars goes toward treatment of tobacco-related diseases, effectively imposing an annual tax of over $500 on every Ohio household.

    While cigars are considered to be tobacco products, the legislation does not specifically apply to cigars. As the FDA determines the treatment of premium cigars under the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, I will keep your concerns in mind.

    Thank you again for sharing your thoughts with me.

    Sincerely,
    Sherrod Brown United States Senator

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    skweekzskweekz Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭
    Got an e-mail response already today. Looks like I got a local guy already on our side...

    Dear Michael,


    Thank you for contacting me about the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011 (S. 1461). I appreciate hearing from you.

    In July 2009, President Obama signed into law the Family Smoking Prevention and Control Act (Public Law 111-31), which gives the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) the authority to regulate premium cigars and other tobacco products. As you may know, on August 1, 2011, Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) introduced S. 1461, of which I am a cosponsor. Among its provisions, this measure would exempt traditional large and premium cigars from the FDA's regulatory powers. As someone who believes in limited government, I understand your views about this legislation and value your input. S. 1461 is currently pending before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions for review. While I am not a member of this panel, please be assured that I will keep your thoughts in mind as this measure continues through the legislative process.

    Thank you again for your correspondence. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of assistance.

    Sincerely,


    Pat Toomey U.S. Senator, Pennsylvania
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    TeegeTeege Posts: 660
    skweekz:
    Got an e-mail response already today. Looks like I got a local guy already on our side...

    Dear Michael,


    Thank you for contacting me about the Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011 (S. 1461). I appreciate hearing from you.

    In July 2009, President Obama signed into law the Family Smoking Prevention and Control Act (Public Law 111-31), which gives the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) the authority to regulate premium cigars and other tobacco products. As you may know, on August 1, 2011, Senator Bill Nelson (D-FL) introduced S. 1461, of which I am a cosponsor. Among its provisions, this measure would exempt traditional large and premium cigars from the FDA's regulatory powers. As someone who believes in limited government, I understand your views about this legislation and value your input. S. 1461 is currently pending before the Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions for review. While I am not a member of this panel, please be assured that I will keep your thoughts in mind as this measure continues through the legislative process.

    Thank you again for your correspondence. Please do not hesitate to contact me in the future if I can be of assistance.

    Sincerely,


    Pat Toomey U.S. Senator, Pennsylvania
    Awesome lets hope it makes it through! I sent in my letter today as well.
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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jgibv:
    So cigars exempted from FDA regulation in one act but can be regulated by the FDA through a different act?!?!???
    Maybe I'm missing something or my brain's just not working today...but does anyone else understand this? I'm lost....
    Ok, my brain just wasn't working earlier today....I answered my own question after re-reading the email and some of the info on the CRA's website.
    Also, I got an e-mail response from the other state Senator and my House Representative but unfortunately none of them outright said they would support the Act.

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    CharlieCordusCharlieCordus Posts: 84 ✭✭
    Just on a different website today and it doesn't look good as far as the new legislation restricting cigar sales. I would set up a link but it would bring you to a competitors website, so not gonna do it. But it is saying to block the legislation there are 20 senators needed and currently there are only 3 who oppose it. Also says that there are 150 representatives needed and there are currently 125 who oppose it.
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It's a really depressing thought.
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    gaberoxgaberox Posts: 824
    CharlieCordus:
    Just on a different website today and it doesn't look good as far as the new legislation restricting cigar sales. I would set up a link but it would bring you to a competitors website, so not gonna do it. But it is saying to block the legislation there are 20 senators needed and currently there are only 3 who oppose it. Also says that there are 150 representatives needed and there are currently 125 who oppose it.
    What kinda restrictions are they talking about for cigars?
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    RhamlinRhamlin Posts: 8,970 ✭✭✭✭✭
    gaberox:
    CharlieCordus:
    Just on a different website today and it doesn't look good as far as the new legislation restricting cigar sales. I would set up a link but it would bring you to a competitors website, so not gonna do it. But it is saying to block the legislation there are 20 senators needed and currently there are only 3 who oppose it. Also says that there are 150 representatives needed and there are currently 125 who oppose it.
    What kinda restrictions are they talking about for cigars?
    Higher taxes, no more walk in humidors at cigar shops,no more online sales, those ugly warning stickers on boxes.
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    CharlieCordusCharlieCordus Posts: 84 ✭✭
    My understanding is that the legislation will give the FDA authority over cigar sales. Specifically there are warnings that the FDA will ban online sales, flavored cigars, walk in humidors, control nicotine levels in cigars affecting the cigarmakers blends, etc. I have no personal knowledge of any of this, only what I have been reading.
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    gaberoxgaberox Posts: 824
    CharlieCordus:
    My understanding is that the legislation will give the FDA authority over cigar sales. Specifically there are warnings that the FDA will ban online sales, flavored cigars, walk in humidors, control nicotine levels in cigars affecting the cigarmakers blends, etc. I have no personal knowledge of any of this, only what I have been reading.
    WOW! I didnt think it would be that bad. Taxes I could live with but walk ins and onliine sales out right banned? thats insane.
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    wwhwangwwhwang Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭
    gaberox:
    CharlieCordus:
    My understanding is that the legislation will give the FDA authority over cigar sales. Specifically there are warnings that the FDA will ban online sales, flavored cigars, walk in humidors, control nicotine levels in cigars affecting the cigarmakers blends, etc. I have no personal knowledge of any of this, only what I have been reading.
    WOW! I didnt think it would be that bad. Taxes I could live with but walk ins and onliine sales out right banned? thats insane.
    With the FDA in charge of tobacco, they'll most likely do to the cigar industry what Australia did to it as well. Outrageous taxes to the point where it's not financially feasible to smoke anymore, those ridiculous warning labels of dead or dying cigarette smokers defacing beautiful cigar boxes, and if cigar shops are still around, then they're very few and far between.

    Guard your freedoms jealously, guys. Your freedoms are the enemy of the soft totalitarianism of the nanny state.
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    wwhwang:
    gaberox:
    CharlieCordus:
    My understanding is that the legislation will give the FDA authority over cigar sales. Specifically there are warnings that the FDA will ban online sales, flavored cigars, walk in humidors, control nicotine levels in cigars affecting the cigarmakers blends, etc. I have no personal knowledge of any of this, only what I have been reading.
    WOW! I didnt think it would be that bad. Taxes I could live with but walk ins and onliine sales out right banned? thats insane.
    With the FDA in charge of tobacco, they'll most likely do to the cigar industry what Australia did to it as well. Outrageous taxes to the point where it's not financially feasible to smoke anymore, those ridiculous warning labels of dead or dying cigarette smokers defacing beautiful cigar boxes, and if cigar shops are still around, then they're very few and far between.

    Guard your freedoms jealously, guys. Your freedoms are the enemy of the soft totalitarianism of the nanny state.
    but its for the CHILDREN!!!!
    its for the good of our health!!








    Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
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    DirewolfDirewolf Posts: 3,493
    They should regulate the $.75 Vanilla Dutch, and leave the premiums alone.. Kids aren't rollin blunts with our kinds of cigars lol .
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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    Direwolf:
    They should regulate the $.75 Vanilla Dutch, and leave the premiums alone.. Kids aren't rollin blunts with our kinds of cigars lol .
    they shouldnt regulate those either.
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    Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,572 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The response from Sherrod Brown, above, seems to be a polite way of saying "bend over, too bad for you".
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Amos Umwhat:
    The response from Sherrod Brown, above, seems to be a polite way of saying "bend over, too bad for you".
    Yep, agreed. Sherrod Brown's response really pissed me off and I've been stewing over a response for the last week....Like I said I've been working/thinking on this and have posted it below. I'd love to get feedback or suggestions before I send it off as I want to make the message as powerful as possible since Mr. Brown clearly doesn't get it.
    See the draft of the message below and thanks in advance for your comments!


    Dear Senator Brown,

    Thank you for taking the time to read my e-mail and for responding in a timely fashion. I apologize for my delayed reply as I was out of town for the Thanksgiving holiday.

    First off, I would like to address the health issues you brought up. I would like to ask where, specifically, did you find the information that "One out of every six Ohio Medicaid dollars goes toward treatment of tobacco-related diseases, effectively imposing an annual tax of over $500 on every Ohio household"? I searched the Ohio Dept. of Health and Ohio Dept. of Job and Family Services websites and could not find anything showing the breakdown of how Medicaid dollars are spent. Could you please point me to a specific source where I could read the entire breakdown of how Medicaid dollars are spent. While one out of every six dollars (16%) seems like a lot to spend on tobacco-related issues, I would like to know how the other 84% of Medicaid dollars are spent and after seeing the breakdown I would be in a better position to comment on this. Perhaps there's something in that other 84% of spending that poses a bigger threat to public health than cigars do.

    Also, while I understand your concern for public health issues, there must be a better way to improve public health than regulating cigars and allowing the FDA to destroy citizens' rights. I understand that smoking cigars can have adverse effects on my health, but I still choose to smoke cigars and I do so in moderation. I think that moderation, not regulation is the best way to improve public health. Too much of anything can have negative health effects but does that mean the government should be allowed to regulate or ban everything that's bad for public health? For example, eating too much processed/fast food can cause obesity or sitting at an office chair for too long can cause back and joint problems but do you think the government should have the power to regulate or eliminate these activities too?

    Secondly, I'd like to address the economic impacts of further cigar regulations/bans. I believe that any FDA regulation would undoubtedly hurt small businesses not only in Ohio but throughout the entire nation. Certainly the most visible sign to consumers would be the closing of local cigar shops which would be forced out of business if they could no longer sell or market these products. Since cigars are such a niche product, there's not any complementary items these stores could offer for sale and that's why they would be forced to closed. Also, the economic impact would be felt far beyond these local shops, other areas that would experience economic losses would be; tobacco farmers, cigar manufacturers, tobacco magazine/book publishers, cigar accessory manufacturers including woodworkers who create humidors, lighter and cutter manufacturers, and other ancillary businesses. Certainly in this time of economic hardship and rampant unemployment, you would not want to put anyone at risk of losing a job due to government regulations?

    I look forward to hearing from you and again urge your support Senate Bill 1461 which would exempt cigars from FDA regulation.

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    you may want to point him to THIS STUDY that shows "Smoke-free ordinances provide a healthy indoor environment, but their implementation in six states had little or no immediate measurable effect on AMI mortality"

    and HERE is some more in depth about it.


    i would take out the part about fast food being unhealthy because they will then take that as you want them to regulate fast food.

    People own their bodies. they have every right to treat themselves however they feel so long as it does not violate the rights of others. this includes the right to enjoy a cigar.
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    TeegeTeege Posts: 660
    This was the response from my senator Saxby Chambliss:

    Dear Mr. Padgett: Thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding S. 1461, the "Traditional Cigar Manufacturing and Small Business Jobs Preservation Act of 2011." It is good to hear from you, and I appreciate you letting me know your thoughts.

    S. 1461 was introduced in the Senate on August 1, 2011, and was referred to the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions for further review. If enacted, this legislation would exempt traditional large and premium cigars from regulation by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA). It would also waive user fees enforced by the FDA on tobacco products that are wrapped only in leaf tobacco, contain no filter, and weigh at least 6 pounds per 1,000 count. Should this legislation come before the full Senate, I will keep your thoughts and views in mind.

    Sounds alot like an AIM bot
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    jr_p951jr_p951 Posts: 1,121
    I used the link provided here to send the e-mails out. Here is what I sent...

    I am an Active duty Marine with 4 deployments to a war torn countries and 5 total deployments. After all the work and effort that I have given, the sacrifices that I've made, leaving my wife and kids year after year, fighting for a democracy that gives you a job...how can I be told that I can not purchase a cigar online or start my own cigar buisness? I did fight for freedom...right? What am I fighting for? For someone else to tell me what I can and can't do? Its bills like this, that makes me think the government that I fight for, is out of control and maybe too much democracy is a bad thing. This bill is outrageous. The National Anthem says "the Land of the Free" but this bill will put countless American shop owners out of business. How are they free when they are shut down by the government? They are the epitome of what I fight for. The small shop owner who has worked to build thier fortune. I fight for the immigrant who wants to build a future for his family. Irish, Chinese, Russian, Mexican, Arabic...what ever...I fight for the dream of being an American, but I am restricted by my own government that I fight for. I understand the age limit on drinking and smoking but how can I be told in the land of the free...that I fight for...that I can not have something if I can pay for. I can fight for this country but I could not open a cigar shop. I can fight for this country but I could not buy a cigar online. Thoughts like this make me feel used and unappreciated by my own government. Why should I fight to defend that government. I continue to fight for someone else's dream of becoming an American and the government is the parasite that feeds of my efforts.

    I am all about anyone building thier own dream. If a man wants to work, he should be able to do anything he can with out restriction and paid for an honest days worth of work. If a man has money and its not harming anyone else, let him pay for what he wants. If he wants to own machine gun, let him...as long as he pays for it and can pass a felony background check(California has already got me on this one!).

    I can't stand to be told that I can't do something, just because they say so.

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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    jr_p951:
    I used the link provided here to send the e-mails out. Here is what I sent...

    I am an Active duty Marine with 4 deployments to a war torn countries and 5 total deployments. After all the work and effort that I have given, the sacrifices that I've made, leaving my wife and kids year after year, fighting for a democracy that gives you a job...how can I be told that I can not purchase a cigar online or start my own cigar buisness? I did fight for freedom...right? What am I fighting for? For someone else to tell me what I can and can't do? Its bills like this, that makes me think the government that I fight for, is out of control and maybe too much democracy is a bad thing. This bill is outrageous. The National Anthem says "the Land of the Free" but this bill will put countless American shop owners out of business. How are they free when they are shut down by the government? They are the epitome of what I fight for. The small shop owner who has worked to build thier fortune. I fight for the immigrant who wants to build a future for his family. Irish, Chinese, Russian, Mexican, Arabic...what ever...I fight for the dream of being an American, but I am restricted by my own government that I fight for. I understand the age limit on drinking and smoking but how can I be told in the land of the free...that I fight for...that I can not have something if I can pay for. I can fight for this country but I could not open a cigar shop. I can fight for this country but I could not buy a cigar online. Thoughts like this make me feel used and unappreciated by my own government. Why should I fight to defend that government. I continue to fight for someone else's dream of becoming an American and the government is the parasite that feeds of my efforts.

    I am all about anyone building thier own dream. If a man wants to work, he should be able to do anything he can with out restriction and paid for an honest days worth of work. If a man has money and its not harming anyone else, let him pay for what he wants. If he wants to own machine gun, let him...as long as he pays for it and can pass a felony background check(California has already got me on this one!).

    I can't stand to be told that I can't do something, just because they say so.

    Thank you for your service and sacrifices.
    And well stated, hopefully your note will grab their attention.

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    jgibvjgibv Posts: 9,244 ✭✭✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    you may want to point him to THIS STUDY that shows "Smoke-free ordinances provide a healthy indoor environment, but their implementation in six states had little or no immediate measurable effect on AMI mortality"

    and HERE is some more in depth about it.


    i would take out the part about fast food being unhealthy because they will then take that as you want them to regulate fast food.

    People own their bodies. they have every right to treat themselves however they feel so long as it does not violate the rights of others. this includes the right to enjoy a cigar.
    Thanks for the advice and info , Kuzi. I'll spend some time reading these sites in depth tomorrow and work the info into my e-mail before I send it off.

    And you're right, I better not give him any more ideas, next thing you know they'll be regulating McDonalds and Wendys......idiots.

    * I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *

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    kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    jgibv:
    kuzi16:
    you may want to point him to THIS STUDY that shows "Smoke-free ordinances provide a healthy indoor environment, but their implementation in six states had little or no immediate measurable effect on AMI mortality"

    and HERE is some more in depth about it.


    i would take out the part about fast food being unhealthy because they will then take that as you want them to regulate fast food.

    People own their bodies. they have every right to treat themselves however they feel so long as it does not violate the rights of others. this includes the right to enjoy a cigar.
    Thanks for the advice and info , Kuzi. I'll spend some time reading these sites in depth tomorrow and work the info into my e-mail before I send it off.

    And you're right, I better not give him any more ideas, next thing you know they'll be regulating McDonalds and Wendys......idiots.
    another link about health effects and second hand smoke that someone may be able to use. CLICK



    i sent out a few emails and im working on hard copies. i have heard nothing back from any of the elected officials i have emailed. that isnt much of a surprise.
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