Basement Finishing

jsnake

Anyone here know much about finishing basements? I used drylok on my walls and started framing. All was good until I put insulation into my framing. Behind the insulation the walls started sweating. Never had this issue before. I think building code requires a vapor barrier but every home improvement store and a million builders say do not do it because you trap water.

After much internet reading I have seen multiple suggestions of using a 2" foam board glued right onto the cement wall. Even though framing is up I can still do this and tape the panels together no problem. If I do this would fiberglass insulation be necessary in the framing? I am very confused. So much advice out there where people argue back and forth about vapor barriers and insulation.

I just want to get it done right and not have issues in a couple years. Hope someone can give me some guidance. Thanks!

bigharpoon

Foam board is definitely the way to go. Concrete walls will condense water so you want to use materials that won't soak up water and rot: foam boards and PT lumber. Is your framing PT? If it touches the concrete it should be so at a minimum your bottom plate should be PT and your studs could be spruce if the foam is between them and the concrete. I wouldn't use fiberglass insulation at all, even after the foam. The ambient temperature of the basement should be enough that the foam and air and drywall will make it plenty toasty. Don't forget your floor will condense moisture too!

The Sniper

Harpoon to the rescue!!! :-D

jsnake

Harpoon, thanks buddy. What should I do for the floor? No Drylok on it and no moisture on floor. Plastic barrier under? Going to pad and carpet.

bigharpoon

The floor is quite a bit more important than the walls, this is where you want to throw most of your construction budget. The walls are fairly easy to protect against moisture since it's mostly vapor and humidity. The floor is TOTALLY different. It sits in moisture, even if you don't think it does because you don't see it now. It evaporates into vapor before it puddles but, believe me, if your floor is concrete it's there. And it's cold so you'll need insulation but anything organic will breed mold.

Hands down the best product I've come across is DRIcore:

http://www.dricore.com/en/eIndex.aspx

It interlocks and floats so it goes down easy which means it can come up easy ~ VERY, VERY IMPORTANT!!! If something goes wrong and your basement floods you don't want to lose your entire remodel. You want to pick it all up and put it elsewhere until things are under control keeping total loss to maybe a new carpet (cheap).

Stay away from plastic sheeting rolls they just breed mold and rot. DRIcore is also its own breathable vapor barrier and insulator. It's a little expensive but it's what you want.

jsnake

I have seen that Dricore up at Lowe's but dang it is going to add another $300 to the project. We want to do it right though and after reading up on it and all that I learned about the walls we are going to do it. I have 1 more wall to do and the 2" blue/pink board foam. I have enough insulation I think for the interior walls and ceiling now. I also read to remove the insulation from the joists becasue the nails from the siding and what not can let moisture in so that will cause mold. Where I read that at they were cutting the foam board into squares pieces to fit and then sealing them by foaming around them. Makes complete sense but will take some extra time. Like I said I want to do it right. My crazy neighbor just did all his stuff including drywall right onto the cement and didn't do anything else.

Thanks for the help. I will post some pics!!

jsnake

Crap, I just realized that I already have my walls up and anchored and there isn't room for 2" foam. What to do what to do? I figured I could slide the XPS foam between the wall and framing but there isn't enough room.

bigharpoon

Get some sill seal, pink synthetic plastic in a 8" roll that is made to put between the basement and sill plate. It's only about 1/8" thick and it's compressible so you'll be able to slide it between the studs and concrete and it will keep your wood far enough away to discourage wicking.

jsnake

I can get some 1 1/2 or 1 inch stuff in there so I will do that. I actually have the biggest wall and two half walls left so I can do the good stuff there. I already have the wood about 1 inch out but since the cement walls aren't perfect it isn't a uniform 1 inch. All the wood is far enough out and anything touching cement is treated wood.

jsnake

bigharpoon pm to you

bigharpoon

jsnake:

bigharpoon pm to you

and replied

RBeckom

Good advise here. One other thing you may want to consider is A de-humidifier, at least until you find the average humidity level your basement will naturally adhere to.

jsnake

Yeah we might throw one down there. I have figured out that if you are going to do this right it costs more money and takes more time. I understand why contractors and builders take short cuts. Their shortcuts are causing me more work but we just called our lender yesterday and got them to lower our interest rate to 3.675% so we have decided to commit to staying here for at least 5 years. Regardless i want to do it right. Learned many lessons here for sure.

kingjk729

Jake you can also do a hydrostatic pressure test on the floor to see how much water there is ..... It's very easy you just take a heavy mil plastick like a contractors garbage bag cut a 12x12 square and tape three sides flat to the ground ... Leave for 24 hours and check if you have water under the plastic you water coming from under neath ..... Read this and there are some ok ideas http://diy.stackexchange.com/questions/4713/i-have-a-basement-floor-with-lots-of-moisture-can-i-paint-or-seal-it-to-make-it

jsnake

Thanks, I actually read that. I spent a ton of hours just reading about different methods and beliefs in basement finishing. Regardless, I think we will still go with the Dricore just to play it safe and other then costing a little extra it isn't a complicated install.

Direwolf

You'll be good with the drycore

The Colonel

The Sniper:

Harpoon to the rescue!!! :-D

Well would have never thought to look here for advice on finishing the man cave in the basement... but I was wrong... again... thanks Harpoon... foam board going up and the drilock for the floor.. You have saved me a disaster...

jsnake

I took some pictures but I am finishing the battle with strep pneumonia so the basement has been on hold for a little over a week. Picked up more supplies today. Will start posting pics soon.

Roberto99

We've also been working on a basement remodel. Pretty big job, 1000 sq ft., we are putting in a bar/kitchenette, exercise area, bathroom, large walk in shower, changing room, sauna, wine closet, storage rooms/closets, and re-organized our heating/plumbing into a utility room. Have been trying to talk the wife into some kind of smoking room but haven't had any luck with that yet.

We put in sheet rock ceilings, heated floors and are tiling everything. We had significant issues with water prior to the remodel so I spent a great deal of time and energy working everything out. We definitely did not do things the least expensive way, but I am very, very happy with how it is turning out and am thrilled to have a warm, dry, comfortable basement.

We are doing it ourselves and had to stop the remodel twice due to low funds.(I didn't want to borrow money for the project) I was planning on posting some pics here myself when we get closer to being done.

jsnake

Once you start remodeling or finishing you realize why builders and contractors cut corners. Doing things the right way takes more money and lots of time. Sounds like you have an amazing project going. Mine is just a sub-basement which will be used as a bedroom and a basement which will be a family room with a half bath. Nothing fancy but we are doing it right.

I had some floor joists not properly attached so I fixed those tonight and the pieces wer only 70 cents each. Guess the extra $5 was too much for the builder. Also got all my electrical stuff, lights, 2 doors, and studs.

Roberto99

LOL Yes, we had floor joist problems also! The builder skimped and put in slightly undersized joists for the span. Fortunately I had some expert help and they were able to show me how to attach the joists together to strengthen them. We guessed that was the original plan and the builder just didn't follow through. It was just a few dollars to fix but I was told by a contractor that regardless, they would have used the larger joists. Like you say, all to save a few bucks... and they got away with it

jsnake

I have floor joists that don't go the length of the house. For some reason there are a few that are sporadically placed for whatever reason. The just nail toed them in with nothing supporting them. Cheap fix but once you get to doing this stuff you really see how much is done wrong and you have to wonder how it passed inspection.

Today I removed the insulation from the floor joists so I could cut rigid foam board and seal it into the spaces. As I pulled out the insulation I notice most of it is dirty and some got wet. Up in the joists in several spots you could see daylight. Cutting the rigid foam board and placing it in was pretty quick and easy. 2 cans of spray foam around the edges of the foam and where I could see daylight and I have that sucker sealed up right. I will replace some of the good insulation back where it came from as added protection but mostly for sound barrier. Threw away the damaged stuff. Just that tiny bit of daylight was allowing the elements to get to the insulation which would have led to mold.

bigharpoon

any pics yet???

jsnake

Yes, I will try to put some up tomorrow. Framing my last wall tomorrow. Been sick twice and lost a lot of free days to work on this. Looking good though IMO.

jsnake

Been busy and I know I suck. I just finished my electrical and will be taking some new pics this week. I will post up from the start to now sometime this week. Pretty proud of myself. Accomplished a lot on my own and it looks great.

Roberto99

jsnake:

Been busy and I know I suck. I just finished my electrical and will be taking some new pics this week. I will post up from the start to now sometime this week. Pretty proud of myself. Accomplished a lot on my own and it looks great.

Looking forward to the pics!

jgibv

jsnake:

Been busy and I know I suck. I just finished my electrical and will be taking some new pics this week. I will post up from the start to now sometime this week. Pretty proud of myself. Accomplished a lot on my own and it looks great.

Very cool dude, glad to hear you've been making progress with this.
I look forward to seeing the pics

jsnake

This was right at the beginning. Had a bunkbed in the way. New pics tomorrow.

Roberto99

I can appreciate what you are doing. There's alot of work there. I didn't get hardly any photos of the before or during in my basement project. In a month or two I plan on being mostly done with the main area and I will post some photos in a new thread.

jsnake

Yes I am still working on this. Time and money! Wait til you see what it looks like now. I just need to caulk and paint the trim and doors next week and all that is left is carpet installation. I will post some pictures. Pretty proud of myself and how it has turned out since I have no prior experience. I would say I have done 95% of the work by myself. I had a little help hanging drywall and a buddy did my tape, mud, and knockdown.

jsnake

Finally off my butt to post these. Check out the before pics. I had some in the process pics too but not sure where they are. Last thing is the carpet which will be in about 2 weeks. Son currently occupying and it is nice for him. I am pretty proud of the end result. Learned a lot for the regular basement finish I am starting next.
Looking into room from outside wall. Shelf is built because that portion below is the foundation walls. Top of shelf is actually basement floor behind that wall.

Looking from opposite side of room. I framed in that closet where the sump pump is. Made it a utility closet.

Looking towards the stairs where I built a closet under the stairs.

Inside of closet. Is pretty deep to the left. Once again the foundation wall is below the shelf. I framed it out and decided to do a shelf. The top of the shelf is the garage floor on the other side of the wall.

Sump pump closet inside.

oking at the long shelf in the main room. The portion that sticks out covers a large clean out from the wall. I decided to frame around it to build a built in television stand and placed the outlets accordingly. Son has a 32" LED sitting on it now. Worked perfectly.


Looking up the stairs