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  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    urbino:
    mustluvcigars:
    I doubt my owners will be able to keep their stores open much longer, espcially past July when the final mininium wage increase goes into effect. I dont see how raising the minimum so much so fast they way the did has helped anybody
    It would be better if minimum wage increases were slow and steady, instead of having long periods of stagnation followed by abrupt rises. Unfortunately, fairly abrupt rises are necessary because of those long periods of stagnation. Inflation doesn't stagnate (except during financial crises as severe as the current one), but GOP willingness to raise the minimum wage is permanently stagnated. Since they have been unwilling to raise it for the past 8 years, an abrupt increase is now necessary to catch it up with inflation.
    mustluvcigars:
    I am not that old but i surely remember having to work my ass off to earn what min wage is giving away now. and considering it a dam decent wage as well.
    There are 3 problems with that statement.

    First, do you also remember how much more that wage would buy, back then? Because I do. If you're as young as it sounds, you don't even want to know what the minimum wage was that I started out at when I was 14. But tiny as it seems to us today, it was worth more. Inflation happens. So while today's minimum wage looks like a princely sum compared to back then, that's only because you're comparing nominal dollars instead of real dollars. I don't know when you were earning minimum wage, but there's a high probability that if you compared it to today's minimum wage, in real dollars, your wage back then was actually higher than today's.

    Second, how much more of your ass do you suppose you would've had to work off if there had been no minimum wage back then, or if politicians then had listened to people who were complaining the way you are now and kept it lower than it was?

    Third, let's not pretend there's any such thing as "what min wage is giving away now." Minimum wage is exactly that: a wage. It's not a giveaway. Minimum wage workers today work for that money, just like you did.
    mustluvcigars:
    socialist values are corrupting the free market everyday.
    Sometimes I think people who throw the word "socialist" around that loosely should be deported for a year to a country with actual socialism. It would have a very salutary effect on their understanding and vocabulary.

    Oh man Da Bino , what I made on my first job while going to school , and I thought I had it made , you are correct it did go a lot farther back then .....why dinosaur eggs were under .50 cents a dozen !!!Seriously my folks had loaned me one half the money for my first car AFTER I worked out the first half on my first job and I paid them back with like 5% interest....no gimme's here...
  • "Socialists mainly share the belief that capitalism unfairly concentrates power and wealth among a small segment of society that controls capital, creates an unequal society, and does not provide equal opportunities for everyone in society. Therefore socialists advocate the creation of a society in which wealth and power are distributed more evenly based on the amount of work expended in production"

    First, is this statement close to accurate? because this sums up my basic understanding of "socialist". If this is cause for deportation please re-educate me.

    Second, I do remember what things cost back then, like I said it was not that long ago. 89-90 I believe right before they started rasing minimum wage again, seems to me minimum wage went up, then followed the prices. There is no doubt a dollar in 2009 would not buy what a dollar would in 1990(a pack of cigarettes, a gallon of gas).but then again a dollar in 92 wouldnt not buy what a a dollar in 90 would.

    Third, If I dont want to keep earning minimum wage, I work hard, learn skills, earn promotions, acccept more responsiblilties. Necessary corrections? Driving business owners out of business is necesssary, so people can earn "real dollars". Economic conditions may have been mediocre two years ago when they passed this legislation, with quite a bit GOP support as i recall, but now they are deplorable. Just as I seem to remember back when I started out working. First came the wage increases then followed the prices, sure there is inflation, put how can the the wage increase not contributing to inflation.

    Lastly,sure the wage is not being giving away, they still have to work to get paid. But the raises are being giving way, I have employees who had to work to, take on responsibliities, and earn the wage, that in July any one who accepts a job must get paid, their pay wont be being adjusted for "real dollars" and they have worked there way up to earn minimum wage again.

    I havent been around long enough watch dinosaurs lay eggs, but I have never ever seen a single soul who wanted more and would work to get more stay stuck at minimum wage. Its free country and a free market and untill recently oppurtuniity was abundant. but then someone decided, lets give loans to people who wont be be to afford them, oh snap! dollar is not worth what is was lets raise the minimum wage to keep em from rioting. Good ideas guys, keep up the good work.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    That Wikipedia entry on socialism is pretty good, but you managed to quote it and still leave out the most important part -- the central, key feature of socialism (which is why it's the first thing in that entry): "public or state ownership and administration of the means of production."

    Raising the minimum wage has about as much to do with state ownership of the means of production as cigars do with the mountains on Mars.
    mustluvcigars:
    I have never ever seen a single soul who wanted more and would work to get more stay stuck at minimum wage.
    Excellent. Those folks who started out at minimum wage and have worked to get raises can continue to do so now that the minimum wage is higher, and soon they'll be making more than the new minimum wage.
    mustluvcigars:
    Its free country and a free market and untill recently oppurtuniity was abundant. but then someone decided, lets give loans to people who wont be be to afford them
    This CRA argument just won't go away, I guess. The Federal Reserve has studied this issue, twice, and both studies found the argument false. CRA-originated loans constitute 6% of the subprime mortgages. Six percent. The CRA did not cause this crisis.
  • dutyjedutyje Posts: 2,263
    urbino:
    mustluvcigars:
    Its free country and a free market and untill recently oppurtuniity was abundant. but then someone decided, lets give loans to people who wont be be to afford them
    This CRA argument just won't go away, I guess. The Federal Reserve has studied this issue, twice, and both studies found the argument false. CRA-originated loans constitute 6% of the subprime mortgages. Six percent. The CRA did not cause this crisis.
    I can vouch for this. At Wachovia, the bulk of our Alt-A products were directed to the portfolio.. In fact, we created products to directly compete with the publicly funded alternatives. it was to be the "next big thing." That project actually led me to say that I just don't understand the world of business, because I couldn't understand the genius behind these products. I became convinced that the business executives really understood things at a much more intricate level than I could ever appreciate. Naturally, I am enjoying a sensational amount of validation these days, although the situation also represents a huge threat to my career.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Heh. Sometimes it sucks to be right, eh?

    It seems like a lot of people had experiences similar to yours -- the executives (and traders) convinced themselves they really did understand things at a much deeper level than anybody else could, and everybody else came to believe they must be right. After all, this **** made money, year after year, even though it made no sense. Until it turned out that it was all funny money, the executives and traders were just kidding themselves, this stuff really did make no sense, and they crashed the economy.

    It's like the Enronification of the whole financial sector.
  • dutyjedutyje Posts: 2,263
    Yeah.. and now I'm stuck trying to keep my job in this economy. We've got a project that may come through. If it doesn't, I will be almost certainly be laid off. They're considering outsourcing the project to a vendor. Today, I had a nice 4 PM meeting to justify why our estimate came in $1M more than the vendor's proposal. I think I did a pretty good job.

    I've decided that, once they make a decision on whether to use in-house technology (me) or a vendor, I'm going to celebrate the closure of the issue by relaxing with that Graycliff Original Release from 1997 you sent me. The stress of this has been too much, and that cigar is ready to move on, too.
  • urbinourbino Posts: 4,517
    Sounds well deserved, doody. I can only imagine how stressful that much uncertainty has been. Actually, I can't imagine it. Here's hoping you enjoy the cigar and get the contract.
  • gmill880gmill880 Posts: 5,947
    dutyje:
    Yeah.. and now I'm stuck trying to keep my job in this economy. We've got a project that may come through. If it doesn't, I will be almost certainly be laid off. They're considering outsourcing the project to a vendor. Today, I had a nice 4 PM meeting to justify why our estimate came in $1M more than the vendor's proposal. I think I did a pretty good job.

    I've decided that, once they make a decision on whether to use in-house technology (me) or a vendor, I'm going to celebrate the closure of the issue by relaxing with that Graycliff Original Release from 1997 you sent me. The stress of this has been too much, and that cigar is ready to move on, too.

    Good luck Duty
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,132
    dutyje:
    Yeah.. and now I'm stuck trying to keep my job in this economy. We've got a project that may come through. If it doesn't, I will be almost certainly be laid off. They're considering outsourcing the project to a vendor. Today, I had a nice 4 PM meeting to justify why our estimate came in $1M more than the vendor's proposal. I think I did a pretty good job.

    I've decided that, once they make a decision on whether to use in-house technology (me) or a vendor, I'm going to celebrate the closure of the issue by relaxing with that Graycliff Original Release from 1997 you sent me. The stress of this has been too much, and that cigar is ready to move on, too.
    Well I'm pulling for ya and wish you all the best Duty! Even if ya are a Commie! haha Kidding! Seriously good luck!
  • robert69165robert69165 Posts: 219
    Good point Krieg!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    urbino:
    Sounds well deserved, doody. I can only imagine how stressful that much uncertainty has been. Actually, I can't imagine it. Here's hoping you enjoy the cigar and get the contract.
    most certainly. I hope it goes well for ya.
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