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Why won't they draw?

PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
in Cigar 101
I can't tell you how many times I've had an amazing cigar, bought a mazo and was completely disappointed because of poor draw. To me, it's all about the draw - I simply cannot enjoy a cigar that I have to work too hard on, no matter how good it tastes. On the other hand, if a cigar draws well, I can usually enjoy it no matter how it tastes. I don't care how good a cigar is supposed to be, or how much it cost - if it doesn't draw I toss it immediately. Case in point - the Cain Daytona 654 Torpedo (#4 on the top 25 of 2011). So this all got me wondering about the draw. Why do some cigars (from the SAME box even) draw well, while others don't? I assume it's construction? Also, how much does aging play into this? My 300-cigar humidor holds about 100 cigars comfortably, and I try to keep them rotated, but I'm generally going to smoke a stick within 45 days of storing it. Is this not enough aging time? Thanks
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Comments

  • DirewolfDirewolf Posts: 3,493 ✭
    Sometimes you get a crappy draw. I will hang with them most times as they usually open up later.
  • ToombesToombes Posts: 4,506 ✭✭✭
    Welcome to the joys of hand-rolled cigars, my friend... As previously stated, if you have the patience to wait they will usually open up. As the stick burns the heat will loosen up the bunching in the filler or will burn through the tight spot and you will have a much better draw. On the other hand, I have encountered sticks that just plain flat refused to open up...
  • rburke1129rburke1129 Posts: 386 ✭
    Bummer to hear that the Cain Daytona Torpedo is your example...It is one of my favorites. Smoked one last night actually and the draw was great.
    Sorry I'm late, but a manure spreader jack-knifed on the Santa Anna.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403 ✭✭
    What's your humidity at? That can play a big role sometimes as the higher moisture content in the tobacco causes it to swell up. I only mention that because humidity is one thing you can control, you have no control over a roller who was having an off day. For what it's worth, I've generally had trouble with torpedos from Oliva being tight.
  • KingoftheCoveKingoftheCove Posts: 937 ✭✭✭
    If my pre-lite draw is a little tight, I'll go ahead and lite it to see what happens.
    But if it's REALLY tight - then befifre I lite it, I carefully, yet aggressively ream the **** out of it with my custom made cigar reamer (copied jlmarta's homemade design, and put a sharp a$$ tip on it), from BOTH ends.
    I rarely have draw problems.

    45 days?? - try and hold off with 20-30 of your cigars (esp. med-full, maduros, corojos, etc.) and get 6 months on them or so - you'll be glad you did.

  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    rburke1129:
    Bummer to hear that the Cain Daytona Torpedo is your example...It is one of my favorites. Smoked one last night actually and the draw was great.
    Bought ten of them and not one had a decent draw. Pre-light told the tale.
  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    j0z3r:
    What's your humidity at? That can play a big role sometimes as the higher moisture content in the tobacco causes it to swell up. I only mention that because humidity is one thing you can control, you have no control over a roller who was having an off day. For what it's worth, I've generally had trouble with torpedos from Oliva being tight.
    I'm definitely going to upgrade to digital. The unit that came with my humidor is $hite, and doesn't even have a calibration screw. Also had the same issue with a box of Oliva Serie V Belicoso - not one had a decent pre-light draw, and failed to satisfy.
  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    KingoftheCove:
    If my pre-lite draw is a little tight, I'll go ahead and lite it to see what happens.
    But if it's REALLY tight - then befifre I lite it, I carefully, yet aggressively ream the **** out of it with my custom made cigar reamer (copied jlmarta's homemade design, and put a sharp a$$ tip on it), from BOTH ends.
    I rarely have draw problems.

    45 days?? - try and hold off with 20-30 of your cigars (esp. med-full, maduros, corojos, etc.) and get 6 months on them or so - you'll be glad you did.

    I haven't had as much luck with a reamer.

    What will I gain from 6 months in the humidor (I'd have to get a larger one, or a reserve one)? Better draw, taste, burn?

    thanks
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    After you cut your cigar take a good look at it. Many times you will notice folded over leaves from the binder or filler tobaccos that were not cut with your initial cut. Pull them away and cut them off, the mtx scissors are great for this. If it's a torpedo you may just have to cut more off, the "don't cut the shoulder off" rule does NOT apply with torpedos in my experience. If it's still tight use a reamer and roll in gently in between your finger and thumb from head to toe. I'd say less than 1% of all non-ISOM cigars I've smoked have a draw issue after doing these things.

    If you are constantly having issue with draw from cigars out of your humidor, you have a high humidity issue. You can always let one that is tight sit, assuming you have not lit it. Just put it in a zip lock without any humidification for a day or two or just leave it out for a couple hours.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    PalmFace:
    What will I gain from 6 months in the humidor (I'd have to get a larger one, or a reserve one)? Better draw, taste, burn?

    thanks
    First let me say 6 months is not aging and likely will not accomplish a lot. If the cigar was not properly aged by the factory 6 months will allow it to settle and lose any ammonia taste(this was a much bigger issue during the boom) but as far as flavor you'll be hard pressed to notice much if it is properly aged at the factory.

    As far as AGING, this takes years and nothing about it will necessarily be better but it can change the cigar. It allows the tobaccos to marry. I have a different opinion than many on this board about aging. Sure an aged cigar CAN be better but an aged dog **** isn't going to be miraculously better. You can also age a great cigar and it is no longer great. It just all depends. A good quality cigar should leave the factory with an ideal amount of age on it. You are getting it how the blender intended it to be. If it wasn't right they would stick it back in the aging room until it was.

    I have Tat Cojonu 2003's that I bought in 2005 in my humidor right now, thats aging and that kind of cigar with that much pepper and power will change drastically. Is it better? IDK but it is a different cigar now.
  • Gaetano7890Gaetano7890 Posts: 800 ✭✭✭
    If I had to guess you humidity is to high in your humidor. Everyone gets a tight draw once in a while but a whole bundle, especially by Oliva. I learn something new everyday about cigars and the one things that has helped in when is a cigar ready to smoke is the role test. If you roll a cigar between your finger you want a little crunch. If there is no cruch it is to moist and if it's really crunchy it to dry. Another thing that I would try if you get a tight draw is try to role it out. Once you cigar heats up it will get softer and if you roll it between you finger with firm pressure it can loosen up the draw I had to do last night with a cigar that was a little tight.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    I also have a couple of every AVO LE dating back to the 80th(2006). I had older ones but have been smoking them lately and the 80th is now the oldest I have.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    PalmFace:
    Also, how much does aging play into this? My 300-cigar humidor holds about 100 cigars comfortably, and I try to keep them rotated, but I'm generally going to smoke a stick within 45 days of storing it. Is this not enough aging time?
    age plays a very small roll in this. the longer it sit in the humidor, generally, the better it will draw. however, with poor construction a cigar will never "age out" a bad draw.


    when a cigar is rolled, they are very most. this causes a slight expansion. as the cigar ages (generally in the aging room) the moisture evens out and the cigar will draw better than it would have had you clipped it right off the rolling table.
    over long periods of time the draw may be a bit easier than that bue to some of the oils breaking down.
    but if there is a twist or a plug or an improper bunch, then all is lost.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403 ✭✭
    PalmFace:
    j0z3r:
    What's your humidity at? That can play a big role sometimes as the higher moisture content in the tobacco causes it to swell up. I only mention that because humidity is one thing you can control, you have no control over a roller who was having an off day. For what it's worth, I've generally had trouble with torpedos from Oliva being tight.
    I'm definitely going to upgrade to digital. The unit that came with my humidor is $hite, and doesn't even have a calibration screw. Also had the same issue with a box of Oliva Serie V Belicoso - not one had a decent pre-light draw, and failed to satisfy.
    Oliva torpedos/belicosos, like I mentioned, are notorious for tight draws. When I cut any Oliva torp these days, it ends up looking more like a robusto...an aggressive cut is the only way I can get a draw.
  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    j0z3r:
    Oliva torpedos/belicosos, like I mentioned, are notorious for tight draws. When I cut any Oliva torp these days, it ends up looking more like a robusto...an aggressive cut is the only way I can get a draw.


    I tried an experiment tonight. Oliva Serie V, sitting in my box for 30 days. Cut, no pre-light draw. Lit it up. Lousy smoke. Stuck with it. As I smoked, I rolled it lightly between my fingers, from ash to cut. Eventually this exposed some "leads" that I pulled out with my teeth. After doing this about five times, at about the half-way mark it turned into an excellent smoke - great draw. Not the most dignified way to smoke, but this tells me that there is a fine line between un-smokable (no draw) and great smoke. Pull 4 or 5 leads out and it's a new cigar.

    Torcedors--less is more.
  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    madurofan:
    First let me say 6 months is not aging and likely will not accomplish a lot. If the cigar was not properly aged by the factory 6 months will allow it to settle and lose any ammonia taste(this was a much bigger issue during the boom) but as far as flavor you'll be hard pressed to notice much if it is properly aged at the factory.

    As far as AGING, this takes years and nothing about it will necessarily be better but it can change the cigar. It allows the tobaccos to marry. I have a different opinion than many on this board about aging. Sure an aged cigar CAN be better but an aged dog **** isn't going to be miraculously better. You can also age a great cigar and it is no longer great. It just all depends. A good quality cigar should leave the factory with an ideal amount of age on it. You are getting it how the blender intended it to be. If it wasn't right they would stick it back in the aging room until it was.

    I have Tat Cojonu 2003's that I bought in 2005 in my humidor right now, thats aging and that kind of cigar with that much pepper and power will change drastically. Is it better? IDK but it is a different cigar now.
    Thank you, thank you - I was afraid I was missing out on something BIG. This makes a lot of sense to me. Kind of like the difference between HDTV and UHDTV - I can't really tell the difference. I'd rather spend my time finding the right cigar than aging the wrong one.
  • Steve2010Steve2010 Posts: 1,036 ✭
    Not to rehash what's already been said, remember that they're hand-rolled.
    That being said, you can't cut every cigar the same and expect the same results.
    Take torpedos for example. I normally cut an 1/8th of an inch to start, test draw, cut a little more, test, and so on...until the draw is where I think it should be.

    For other vitolas, I've been using my Xikar V almost exclusively and haven't had any problems.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403 ✭✭
    PalmFace:
    j0z3r:
    Oliva torpedos/belicosos, like I mentioned, are notorious for tight draws. When I cut any Oliva torp these days, it ends up looking more like a robusto...an aggressive cut is the only way I can get a draw.


    I tried an experiment tonight. Oliva Serie V, sitting in my box for 30 days. Cut, no pre-light draw. Lit it up. Lousy smoke. Stuck with it. As I smoked, I rolled it lightly between my fingers, from ash to cut. Eventually this exposed some "leads" that I pulled out with my teeth. After doing this about five times, at about the half-way mark it turned into an excellent smoke - great draw. Not the most dignified way to smoke, but this tells me that there is a fine line between un-smokable (no draw) and great smoke. Pull 4 or 5 leads out and it's a new cigar.

    Torcedors--less is more.
    I have done that before myself...be careful, it is really easy to pull too much out and the cigar will turn squishy.
  • StreaterStreater Posts: 293 ✭
    Someone mentioned a poker. Would a straight wire coat hanger work? I've had a few hard draws and wondered about this.
  • Steve2010Steve2010 Posts: 1,036 ✭
    Streater:
    Someone mentioned a poker. Would a straight wire coat hanger work? I've had a few hard draws and wondered about this.
    An icepick or coat hanger works. The only cigars I've had to poke are a few Cuban coronas, notably the HdM Coronation.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    PalmFace:
    madurofan:
    First let me say 6 months is not aging and likely will not accomplish a lot. If the cigar was not properly aged by the factory 6 months will allow it to settle and lose any ammonia taste(this was a much bigger issue during the boom) but as far as flavor you'll be hard pressed to notice much if it is properly aged at the factory.

    As far as AGING, this takes years and nothing about it will necessarily be better but it can change the cigar. It allows the tobaccos to marry. I have a different opinion than many on this board about aging. Sure an aged cigar CAN be better but an aged dog **** isn't going to be miraculously better. You can also age a great cigar and it is no longer great. It just all depends. A good quality cigar should leave the factory with an ideal amount of age on it. You are getting it how the blender intended it to be. If it wasn't right they would stick it back in the aging room until it was.

    I have Tat Cojonu 2003's that I bought in 2005 in my humidor right now, thats aging and that kind of cigar with that much pepper and power will change drastically. Is it better? IDK but it is a different cigar now.
    Thank you, thank you - I was afraid I was missing out on something BIG. This makes a lot of sense to me. Kind of like the difference between HDTV and UHDTV - I can't really tell the difference. I'd rather spend my time finding the right cigar than aging the wrong one.
    You're new here but I don't want to assume you are new to cigars.

    HOWEVER, if you are new to cigars. Don't worry about aging. If you buy a 5'er of something and love the first one you smoke, smoke them all whenever you feel like it.
    If you hate them, get rid of them, trade them or something. Aging them will not make a cigar you hate into a cigar you like.
    If you like it but thought the flavors were bland or it was too light. aging will only increase the blandness or lightness.
    If you thought they were ok but one flavor dominated the cigar or or it was so spicy you couldn't get anything else. Then try aging it.
  • PalmFacePalmFace Posts: 12
    madurofan:
    You're new here but I don't want to assume you are new to cigars.

    HOWEVER, if you are new to cigars. Don't worry about aging. If you buy a 5'er of something and love the first one you smoke, smoke them all whenever you feel like it.
    If you hate them, get rid of them, trade them or something. Aging them will not make a cigar you hate into a cigar you like.
    If you like it but thought the flavors were bland or it was too light. aging will only increase the blandness or lightness.
    If you thought they were ok but one flavor dominated the cigar or or it was so spicy you couldn't get anything else. Then try aging it.


    I've been gradually getting into cigars for several years now. I keep about 100 cigars on hand, and generally smoke at least one a day. But I still consider myself a noob. I haven't devoted that much time to learning about it - just enjoy the occasional smoke.

    Thanks for the info. I think that lots of noobs (like me) labor under the impression that aging will make any cigar great. Good to know that it's a very specific situation. All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now. I admire those who have the patience, knowledge and money though.

    After a day of digging ditches, I'm enjoying a My Father Le Bijou 1922 Toro with a Lagunitas Little Sumpin' Sumpin' Ale right now. Great draw, great smoke, right out of the box that came in the mail today.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,633 ✭✭✭✭
    madurofan:
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
    geeez guys... you dont have to do a damn thing to age cigars... you just have to let them sit there.
    Kuzi's Forum Links Page
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    kuzi16:
    madurofan:
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
    geeez guys... you dont have to do a damn thing to age cigars... you just have to let them sit there.
    That letting them sit there is harder than you make it out to be .... And before one of you smartasses comes along and say send all your smokes to me, NO. I've been around long enough to know someone is going say that, lol.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403 ✭✭
    madurofan:
    kuzi16:
    madurofan:
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
    geeez guys... you dont have to do a damn thing to age cigars... you just have to let them sit there.
    That letting them sit there is harder than you make it out to be .... And before one of you smartasses comes along and say send all your smokes to me, NO. I've been around long enough to know someone is going say that, lol.
    Send your cigars to me, I'll age them...but only the good ones.

  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,840 ✭✭✭✭✭
    j0z3r:
    What's your humidity at? That can play a big role sometimes as the higher moisture content in the tobacco causes it to swell up. I only mention that because humidity is one thing you can control, you have no control over a roller who was having an off day. For what it's worth, I've generally had trouble with torpedos from Oliva being tight.
    On this line of thought, have you tried dry-boxing for 24 hours or so any of the smokes that have been giving you trouble? Couldn't hurt. Maybe even set one in for a few days, if it turns out still crappy, well, then it's just a bad batch, which seems unlikely.
    Interesting to me that someone mentioned Oliva cigars with tight draws, maybe I've just had different sizes, but Olivas have usually had very smooth draws for me. Gurkha's, however, are a different story!
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • allsmokedupallsmokedup Posts: 751 ✭✭
    I had an Oliva Cain Daytona #4 Corona on Saturday that was partially plugged. It was a royal pain drawing through it and may have contributed to the bitterness close to the end. Other than that, the Olivas I've had have been problem free.
  • madurofanmadurofan Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭
    j0z3r:
    madurofan:
    kuzi16:
    madurofan:
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
    geeez guys... you dont have to do a damn thing to age cigars... you just have to let them sit there.
    That letting them sit there is harder than you make it out to be .... And before one of you smartasses comes along and say send all your smokes to me, NO. I've been around long enough to know someone is going say that, lol.
    Send your cigars to me, I'll age them...but only the good ones.

    LOL, Where the hell would you put 'em? Unless something has drastically changed you fill every inch of storage you have with in minutes of purchasing or making it.
  • j0z3rj0z3r Posts: 9,403 ✭✭
    madurofan:
    j0z3r:
    madurofan:
    kuzi16:
    madurofan:
    PalmFace:
    All that aging stuff is just too much effort for me, when there are perfectly good cigars available to smoke right now.
    I like your attitude.
    geeez guys... you dont have to do a damn thing to age cigars... you just have to let them sit there.
    That letting them sit there is harder than you make it out to be .... And before one of you smartasses comes along and say send all your smokes to me, NO. I've been around long enough to know someone is going say that, lol.
    Send your cigars to me, I'll age them...but only the good ones.

    LOL, Where the hell would you put 'em? Unless something has drastically changed you fill every inch of storage you have with in minutes of purchasing or making it.
    I can always buy another cooler. Wink [;)] And I'll have you know that I'm up to about 300 sq inches of open space that I haven't done a thing to fill. Big Smile [:D] My goal is to be down to one storage unit by 2015.
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