Gun Talk

urbino

Didn't there used to be a gun thread around here somewhere? Couldn't find it.

Anyway, I could use some input from youse guys, as many of you are more up-to-date in your gun knowledge than I am. (Mine's about 20 years old.) I think I'm going to get a rifle. It's a Just In Case gun. Not a self-defense Just In Case gun, but a society-crashes-and-a-man's-got-to-feed-hisself Just In Case gun.

I've long been taken with the 6.5x55 Swede, though I've never owned one. It seems like the perfect combination of killing power, accuracy, and recoil. The kink is, of course, there aren't just scads of rifles chambered for it. Ruger 77, CZ American, Winchester 70, and Tikka T3 are the ones I know of. (Aside from the single-shots, like Blaser.)

Anybody want to chime in on any of that? The pros and cons of those rifles? Other rifles I'm not aware of? The pros and cons of the 6.5x55 Swede? Other cartridges?

phobicsquirrel

I'd go with a m249 , you know just in case...

urbino

I don't even know what that is.

Garen B

This is a M249 Urbi Link

You know, just in case those deer and rabbits start growing bulletproof fur and the squirrels start shooting back.

Jetmech_63

Well it depends on a few facors Urbs. How much you're willing to spend is a big one. Also if a man has to fend for himself as in feeding himself or defending himself. Here are my top choices

Springfield M1A: .308 caliber, tried and true dead to right reliable, highly accurate at impressivley long ranges. Ammo is varied and plentiful. Recoil is suprisingly light(heavy gun and smooth gas action makes takes a lot of bite out of it). Drawbacks is it is a bit pricey(1800-2000), not practical for small game...wel...you could but it would be kinda messy. I own one and absolutley love it, if the world went to hell, this would be by my side

AR-15: .223 caliber, very reliable, hardly any recoil and a pleasure to shoot. Very accurate and can be made extremely accurate for not much money. Large enough for light skin large mammals, very practical for small game. I wouldnt shoot anyone with ball ammo, but with ballistic tips...bring em on. Can be had from 800-1400....nicely equipped. Another one i won that i wouldnt be without.

Remington 700: 270 caliber. This caliber will handle anything small to big. Proven accurate gun, and staunch reliability. Drawback is you need a scope, bolt action isnt practical for defense.

Browning Semi-Auto 243 caliber. Killer little rifle. Another cartridge that will handle anything. The older ones had highly reliable actions that are kind of hard to come by but theyll take an awesome amount of abuse. Open sights or is drilled and tapped for scope rings. Highly versatile, accurate and fun

Id have a few of those along with a ruger 10/22 and a remington 870 12 gauge. 10/22 being suited for small game and 870...hell you name it. Defense, ducks, small game, upland birds or take large game with a slug. A true workhorse. I've had mine dunked in the mud, wiped it off and it kept on firing. Best of all its only 300-400 ish bucks for a super mag that takes 2 3/4- 3 1/2" shells

kuzi16

i love my ruger 10/22

im going to see if i can find that 30 round clip for it


should be fun.

urbino

I used to have a 10/22. Had a Choate folding stock for it. Used the heck out of that little rifle.

The .308 is definitely my runner-up cartridge, Jet, for all the reasons you mentioned. It has a big advantage over the 6.5x55 in terms of availability (both rifles and ammo), but the Swede's extreme sectional density gives it the advantage in terms of ballistics (from what I can tell). Maybe there's another cartridge that's been used (very successfully) as an elephant gun and has roughly the same recoil as a .243, but I don't know of it.

I saw something a while back about the military maybe going to an updated M-16 chambered for something called the "6.5mm Grendel," specifically because of the 6.5's combination of extreme penetration and low recoil. Anybody know anything about that? How different is that cartridge from the Swede?

While we're on the subject of the venerable .308, anybody know if the snipers who killed those pirates were using .308's? I know it used to be a favorite of military snipers, but dunno if it still is.

Funny you should mention the BAR, Jet. I've given some thought to eventually getting one in .338 Win Mag, just to have a bigger bore on hand. I was thinking BAR for the reason you mentioned -- the gas operation's recoil reduction. OTOH, I'm not really sure what I would use it for.

Agree with you on the 12-ga. Didn't ask about it because, well, there's just less to talk about. While there are, of course, very fancy ones, a 12-ga. is pretty much a 12-ga.

PuroFreak

I love the AR-15 and even the Mini-14. Both shoot the .223 round that has enough knock down for anything you would be hunting here in the lower 48. If you were in Alaska and going after Polar Bears then I would advise you get something with a little more punch. If you want something insanely bad ass then go with this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82

urbino

Heh. I'm aware of the Barrett. My ass isn't quite bad enough for that.

Garen B

PuroFreak:

I love the AR-15 and even the Mini-14. Both shoot the .223 round that has enough knock down for anything you would be hunting here in the lower 48. If you were in Alaska and going after Polar Bears then I would advise you get something with a little more punch. If you want something insanely bad ass then go with this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barrett_M82

Well I was going to suggest something with a tad bit more Oomph Puro, introducing the .700 Nitro Express, when a 50 cal round just isn't quite ridiculous enough.

Scroll down the page a bit and check out the picture comparing the .700 Nitro Express to a .45 ACP round.

phobicsquirrel

Garen B:

This is a M249 Urbi Link

You know, just in case those deer and rabbits start growing bulletproof fur and the squirrels start shooting back.

hey, you never know...

I'd love to get myself a m4 carbine. that's my dream weapon, I miss my old one, it's stupid that I had to give it back.

phobicsquirrel

urbino:

I saw something a while back about the military maybe going to an updated M-16 chambered for something called the "6.5mm Grendel," specifically because of the 6.5's combination of extreme penetration and low recoil. Anybody know anything about that? How different is that cartridge from the Swede?

Nope, but I haven't been keeping up on these sort of things since I've been out of the army. though I am intrigued. One thing that the 5.56mm isn't is a killer, but it's effective-ness is great as it is small enough to still take out a target (giving the shooter is a good enough shot) and the distance is much greater than the higher caliber rifles such as the AK47.

urbino

That .700 Nitro Express is insane, geebee! What possible use could it have? I mean, I could see a use for having something like a .45-70 guide gun around -- e.g., heavy brush in bear country -- but what possible use would something with twice the recoil be? Just in case you encounter a T. Rex? Cracking engine blocks from a mile and half? Even if they could come up with a use case, who could hit anything with it?

The big selling point for the 6.5, from what I saw, Feebs, was that it will go through common urban obstacles that the 5.56 won't, and still kill whoever's on the other side. (Basically, the same thing that made the Swede a useful cartridge on big African game, back in the day, despite it's relatively low power -- it'll penetrate through thick hide and bone and still hit hard when it reaches the vitals.) Meanwhile, it still shoots very flat and has light recoil.

PuroFreak

The new Adams Arms PDW is a bad SOB!!! It is a 5.56 that has 3 different barrels for different uses. One is a tiny little short one for a close range entry gun, one is a medium length barrel, and one is a long barrel for long range accuracy. They can be swapped out without changing the entire upper which is a new design. I subscribe to Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement magazine and they have some awesome s**t!!!

phobicsquirrel

urbino:

That .700 Nitro Express is insane, geebee! What possible use could it have? I mean, I could see a use for having something like a .45-70 guide gun around -- e.g., heavy brush in bear country -- but what possible use would something with twice the recoil be? Just in case you encounter a T. Rex? Cracking engine blocks from a mile and half? Even if they could come up with a use case, who could hit anything with it?

The big selling point for the 6.5, from what I saw, Feebs, was that it will go through common urban obstacles that the 5.56 won't, and still kill whoever's on the other side. (Basically, the same thing that made the Swede a useful cartridge on big African game, back in the day, despite it's relatively low power -- it'll penetrate through thick hide and bone and still hit hard when it reaches the vitals.) Meanwhile, it still shoots very flat and has light recoil.

hmmm, well that will work. You should go for an all purpose weapon, sounds like that's it! lol. Man I would like to have some peace and quiet, I hate living in the damn city. Hell with fedex why even, i mean I pay for shipping any way.. and I buy 99 percent of things online anymore, at least the important things..

urbino

It definitely sounds pretty ideal. Like I said, from what I know (which is little), the main downside is that it's not nearly as available as cartridges like the .308 and .223.

You lost me a bit on that last turn. What's this about you needing some peace and quiet and buying online? I'm lost.

Jetmech_63

Still a huge fan of the 308. Just a damn fine all purpose round. 30.06 isnt too far behind it but the slope it shoots on get annoying. As long as were talking about wierd calibers, the short mags offer some pretty good ballistics.

urbino

That's actually where I started, Jet -- the .243 WSM. As I read more about it, I lost interest. Too prone to jamming. But it led me to the 6.5x55, which I'd known about years (& years & years) ago, but long forgotten.

urbino

Oh, and the .308 -- that M1A sounds terrific, but out of my price range.

Luko

For what it's worth, I hunt with a .270 and it's a fine gun with essentially no recoil to worry about.

phobicsquirrel

Hey urby, they have a automatic shotgun, might be good for huntin'. youtube automatic shotgun...

Jetmech_63

Not to derail a thread too badly but i'm in the market for a new handgun. I own 3 1911/45acp, 44 magnum, 500 magnum, 2 .38's and a 357. I'm torn between a Smith and Wesson M&P 40, a Beretta 92FS. I've carried the 92FS at work, its a 9mm, shoots well and is fun and easy to shoot. I could break my wife into semiautos with it... but it's still a 9mm....eh. M&P shots awesome, good caliber and quality....but it's not one of my truty 45's....thoughts and opinions. Also a buckmark 22 looks like fun, could be used for plinking and small game acquisition. Probably be a good addition to my survival kit.

alienmisprint

Urby - I'm mostly with Jet on this one, go with either a .308 or a 30.06. I personally prefer the .06, but both are damn good cartridges, a ton of manufacturers make rifles to chamber them, and the ammo is everywhere. If you are talking end of the world/Red Dawn type ***, you want something you can find ammo for after stores are no longer in operation. And they will both put down any killable game in North America.



Jet - I really like .22 target pistols in general. They are fun to shoot, very accurate, and have practically no recoil. I have a couple of friends who got their wives turned on to shooting using the .22. And since you already have all the high-caliber stuff, a .22 wouldn't hurt your machismo at all, lol.

Before you go with a 9mm or a .40 though, have you looked at a .357 sig? I personally like those just becasue of versatility. I personally prefer the .45 or a .357 Magnum, but you already have your bases covered there.

405bench

Make the gun non-rust metal (stainless) and synthetic stock.

Make the cartridge something that is readily available like Win 308, 30-06 or 270.

If it is a "just-in-case" gun  you want to be able to find ammo and you don't want to worry about rust.

gmill880

405bench:

Make the gun non-rust metal (stainless) and synthetic stock.

Make the cartridge something that is readily available like Win 308, 30-06 or 270.

If it is a "just-in-case" gun  you want to be able to find ammo and you don't want to worry about rust.

Any of you guys ever heard of the term having a gun done "birdsong". I have a tactical op gun shop very close to me. Its supposedly a coating that special forces uses to rustproof their weapons. Supposedly you have this done and put say a handgun in a bucket of water for days and never worry about rust. This would be a very good thing in a "survivalist sense" for a gun. Any insight from you military guys or gun guru's ??? The guy was telling me there are two colors flat black and a dull green...

zoom6zoom

I don't hunt, so most of my rifles are milsurps. My favorite carry gun is the SIG 229. I normally carry .40 cal, but the beauty of this model is you can swap the barrel and it's a .357Sig.

My favorite .22 autoloader is my Whitney Wolverine (pictured below). Olympic Arms makes a copy of it in polymer.

I attended a great training class this weekend, we did point shooting (not using the sights) at ranges up to contact (your forehead actually in contact with the target), and shooting while moving (both you and the targets in motion at the same time). Challenging and a real world application.

Alex_Svenson

urbino:

That .700 Nitro Express is insane, geebee! What possible use could it have? I mean, I could see a use for having something like a .45-70 guide gun around -- e.g., heavy brush in bear country -- but what possible use would something with twice the recoil be? Just in case you encounter a T. Rex? Cracking engine blocks from a mile and half? Even if they could come up with a use case, who could hit anything with it?

The big selling point for the 6.5, from what I saw, Feebs, was that it will go through common urban obstacles that the 5.56 won't, and still kill whoever's on the other side. (Basically, the same thing that made the Swede a useful cartridge on big African game, back in the day, despite it's relatively low power -- it'll penetrate through thick hide and bone and still hit hard when it reaches the vitals.) Meanwhile, it still shoots very flat and has light recoil.

700, trust me, when you come up on a cape buffalo in the brush, wounded, you will wish you had bigger

Luko

After a drunk Duty, I believe the cape buffalo is one of the most dangerous animals on the planet.

j0z3r

Luko:

After a drunk Duty, I believe the cape buffalo is one of the most dangerous animals on the planet.

Perhaps, but you can't disable a buffalo with a well placed kick to the ankle.

burchams

I went with the HSM AR-15 in the 5.56. I'd say that the ammo should always be pretty easy to come across. Haven't had the chance to shoot it yet. Can't wait.

Alex_Svenson

Luko:

After a drunk Duty, I believe the cape buffalo is one of the most dangerous animals on the planet.

I am going for my first cape buffalo this october. It has been a dream a long time coming. Last year I took a lion which was amazing. This year buffalo. After that maybe leopard or gizzly.