Most of you guys have no idea what this place was in the beginning. Never a harsh word, we ALL knew each other and were ONE. It has come so far, and grown so much I have no idea who most of the members are. There are so many "cliques" the group I feel most comfortable with is the smallest.
I too often just pass through here without much to say because I don't feel at home.
Well...I think if you took some of the stupid people out of the equation, it's a pretty nice place if you stay out of the political debates. It's hard to ignore at times when transactions are taking place and we have to police ourselves. I've made some great friendships here I never would have made, and I will continue to do so. Given the amount of people I see get ripped off on other forums, I'd say a few morons are chump change in comparison. Love you crazy bastards, and one of you will need a new porch... Can't we all just send a bomb?
Most of you guys have no idea what this place was in the beginning. Never a harsh word, we ALL knew each other and were ONE. It has come so far, and grown so much I have no idea who most of the members are. There are so many "cliques" the group I feel most comfortable with is the smallest.
I too often just pass through here without much to say because I don't feel at home.
My sentiments exactly, Kasper. Because I don't have a huge stash and don't get in on the bombing, I just feel really out of the loop, so I do more reading than posting. But there is still a ton of great information shared. It would be nice to curb the cliques and the dama somewhat.
I also think being a BORK is being able to get past any and all BS. To be able to move on from a disagreement. It could be over cigars, religion, poiltics etc... If you look at the Passes section, I see people in the same pass, maybe even sending to each other. If you looked at the political debates on here you would think they hate each other... but people move on. I know we all will.
Actually, (and I may take a lot of flack for this) but it is things like the term BORK which is part of the problem.
We were all known as BOTL at one time. Then suddenly a small group of members started to refer to themselves as BORK's. This set that group apart from everyone else, and IMO was the start of the separation into smaller cliques.
It happens all the time in the "real world" as well. A group of people feel they are special in some way and want to identify themselves in a manner that will draw attention to this. I don't think this was done in a mean spirited way or anything but the affects are the same... a "special" group of memebrs within the whole group of BOTL.
I have NEVER refferred to myself as a BORK as I have always been more then proud to call myself and to be considered by others here as a BOTL and that will always be good enough for me. This is just my opinion, but once the separation begins it tends to roll on exponentially.
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
WHOA Wait a minute, back the truck up.
I am a new member and I am in now way trying to "change" how things are done around here, just trying to fit in. Each and every member here was new at one time, and had to try and fit in. We are all individuals and all have our own ways of accomplishing exactly how and where we fit in, if at all. Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude. You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
WHOA Wait a minute, back the truck up.
I am a new member and I am in now way trying to "change" how things are done around here, just trying to fit in. Each and every member here was new at one time, and had to try and fit in. We are all individuals and all have our own ways of accomplishing exactly how and where we fit in, if at all. Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude. You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
Hi Russ. I don't really know how to respond to you. There is a problem around the forums and I was suggesting a possible fix. You said...
Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude.
Ummm, that was what I was suggesting. There are many threads that lay out the way things are done around here. I was suggesting what you said and trying to teach the newer members where they might come across this information if they choose to do so. Somehow you turn that into me being guilty of being part of a clique? You obviously don't know me and so I will not take your comments too seriously, but my friend, I can assure you that I am a member of NO CLIQUES. I dispise them and think that they are the biggest problem we have around here. You also state...
You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
You have no idea of what I did or what other members do when they joined here. I did indeed read tons of old threads and so do many others here. Maybe that is why for the number of members we have we have relatively few problems. Perhaps if the new members would read some to see how the FORUM (NOT ME!!!) feels things should be done. That was my way of trying to give you some information you could use to integrate yourself into the community with little trouble, and you turned it into me being guilty of what I am saying others should not do? Wow what is with the comprehension around here today. I say one thing and someone, somehow completely reads something different into it. (shaking head) This was not meant as a put down to newer members. I think you could ask and find that I have been very helpful to newer members in my time here.
One last thing Russ. If like you say you are not trying to change things around here and just trying to fit in? Then what makes you think my comments were directed towrds you?
I am for sure a new member of this forum and have not been here very long. How the problem has gotten this big, I have no idea. If 10 people don't like a member and he wants to stay and antagonize people, fine, it is what it is. Just like in the real world, nowhere does everyone get along. People are talking about cliques on the forum, well, the ENTIRE forum is a clique of cigar smokers. Peoples signatures have "TEAM ___", THAT is a clique. Why do cliques get a bad rap? Nobody is friends with everyone. Somehow, now people are jumping out of every corner shouting that this forum is not what it used to be..well of course not, everything changes. This is still the best collection of BORKs, er BOTLs, er..whatever, cigar smokers on the web. I'm proud to know just about everyone that I have met on this forum. Just my two cents.
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
WHOA Wait a minute, back the truck up.
I am a new member and I am in now way trying to "change" how things are done around here, just trying to fit in. Each and every member here was new at one time, and had to try and fit in. We are all individuals and all have our own ways of accomplishing exactly how and where we fit in, if at all. Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude. You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
Hi Russ. I don't really know how to respond to you. There is a problem around the forums and I was suggesting a possible fix. You said...
Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude.
Ummm, that was what I was suggesting. There are many threads that lay out the way things are done around here. I was suggesting what you said and trying to teach the newer members where they might come across this information if they choose to do so. Somehow you turn that into me being guilty of being part of a clique? You obviously don't know me and so I will not take your comments too seriously, but my friend, I can assure you that I am a member of NO CLIQUES. I dispise them and think that they are the biggest problem we have around here. You also state...
You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.You have no idea of what I did or what other members do when they joined here. I did indeed read tons of old threads and so do many others here. Maybe that is why for the number of members we have we have relatively few problems. Perhaps if the new members would read some to see how the FORUM (NOT ME!!!) feels things should be done. That was my way of trying to give you some information you could use to integrate yourself into the community with little trouble, and you turned it into me being guilty of what I am saying others should not do? Wow what is with the comprehension around here today. I say one thing and someone, somehow completely reads something different into it. (shaking head) This was not meant as a put down to newer members. I think you could ask and find that I have been very helpful to newer members in my time here.
One last thing Russ. If like you say you are not trying to change things around here and just trying to fit in? Then what makes you think my comments were directed towrds you?
I am only going to answer your question because everything else you said is true, I dont know you or what you have done in the past or what you do now. But I will say that my comprehension is normally spot on, but today it could be a little off not knowing the person who I was trying to comprehend.
I did not think your comments were directed at me as an individual,but when you use the term new members, I fall into that category and was defending my standing as a new member. Honestly I love this place, I dont post much, not because I dont have anything to add, but I am to busy looking for answers to questions that I have, and dont want to just start making new topics looking for answers that have been given countless times by others like yourself. That being said, I dont know how this place used to flow, I just know how it flows now and am trying to keep up and find my place in the heard.
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
I let some personal issues interfere and found myself getting a little carried away. And for that I apologized. I never meant to take away from this place as I did. I enjoy this place and all of the people that belong to it. And, as soon as I finish this damn paper on interogation techniques, I am going to burn a nice one in honor of our beloved forums.
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
Please do not Doug, who would I send candles to???? I think everyone needs to chill, smoke, apologize, and relax... Life is to short to get pissed a the Internet
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
Please do not Doug, who would I send candles to???? I think everyone needs to chill, smoke, apologize, and relax... Life is to short to get pissed a the Internet
Ooops. I re-read what I wrote and I didn't mean it to sound like I was taking my toys and going home. I meant it would be one of my last comments on here today, and certainly on this **** silly topic. It's not worth the agro.
Just for everyones clarification, I am not pissed, I am just fully baffled how new members come here and always seem to comment on how different we are and how much better we conduct ourselves without moderators and now we are having a discussion about how people feel they are being dictated to as to how to act here by older members? WHAT!!??
Take a breath guy's and ask yourself. If this place is special and does seem to work with little or no outside interferrence, could it be because of the way the "old guy's" took care of things? Is it so wrong for people to want to hold on to this place and what it is that makes it special? Somehow this turned into a thread about me being a little dictator, and I really don't get it.
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
Please do not Doug, who would I send candles to???? I think everyone needs to chill, smoke, apologize, and relax... Life is to short to get pissed a the Internet
I have to join in and apologize, I am pretty sure I'm the one who started to make this forum go down hill, I would like it to go back to the way it was when I first joined. So I'm going to do my part, again I apologize for U having a bad experience,
This is all so freaking retarded, ALL OF IT!!! This forum is full of great people and a bad seed pops up, some of those great people take it upon themselves to control the environment so things can stay they way they are on our beloved forum. When that bad seed does not learn after many warnings, yes things are going to turn hostile since there is no face to face interaction and we just can't pick the guy up and throw him out of the bar, so to speak.
I find it completely dumb that so called "vets" show up out of the blue to put in their .02 cents on a situation that is already trying to be worked out. I also thinks it's completely retarded that the members that were sticking up for the forums were made to feel like the had to apologize for their actions, yet the bad seed has people coming to his rescue.
Some of the "vets" here need to practice what they preach, calling out good members of this forum was in complete bad taste and is no different then what good members were trying to do with the bad, yet they get chastised for it. If the "vets" would stop to think, many of them had a hand in having Ryan (aeonspiral) removed from the forums, should all the members involved with that start sending apologizes to Ryan and ask him to come back? I think not.
The forums are for everyone to use, new and old. Honestly it doesn't matter how many posts a person has to me, I could care less, it matters that we all found this place because we share the same hobby. Sorry "vets" the forums were not created for you, and the number of members is only going to grow, evolution, it's a crazy thing, and totally unstoppable.
Has the forums changed, YES, is going to stop changing, NO and really the only thing I see that is clearly different around here is the amount of hypocrisy that is spewed.
I think the "vets" that called out the good members of this place should apologize, after all, the good members were only giving their opinion and trying to do the right thing. Next time if maybe more good members backed people up a situation like what happened yesterday could come to a quicker resolution. I know this going to piss a lot of people off but, whatever, this is all just my opinion. Like it was so clearly pointed out, this belongs to Alex and The Beard, not to any of us, and if you have a high post count and all of this pisses you off enough to make you throw a fit and start threatening to leave, just remember there are plenty of noobs that will have 5000 - 7000 posts under their belt soon enough.
I'll wrap this rant up with saying, "vets" practice what you preach, you read something you don't like, well move on. Good members, keep up the good work, this place clearly needs people to call out the BS of other members so we can have a place we all enjoy. Certain "vet", no one owes you or this place an apology for doing what they though was the right thing. Im done!!
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
Please do not Doug, who would I send candles to???? I think everyone needs to chill, smoke, apologize, and relax... Life is to short to get pissed a the Internet
Ooops. I re-read what I wrote and I didn't mean it to sound like I was taking my toys and going home. I meant it would be one of my last comments on here today, and certainly on this **** silly topic. It's not worth the agro.
Just for everyones clarification, I am not pissed, I am just fully baffled how new members come here and always seem to comment on how different we are and how much better we conduct ourselves without moderators and now we are having a discussion about how people feel they are being dictated to as to how to act here by older members? WHAT!!??
Take a breath guy's and ask yourself. If this place is special and does seem to work with little or no outside interferrence, could it be because of the way the "old guy's" took care of things? Is it so wrong for people to want to hold on to this place and what it is that makes it special? Somehow this turned into a thread about me being a little dictator, and I really don't get it.
Doug, yes I live in Rancho Cucamonga. If you can say that 3 times fast, you win a cookie.
"It's plume, bro. Nothing to worry about. Got any Opus?" The suppose to be DZR
This is all so freaking retarded, ALL OF IT!!! This forum is full of great people and a bad seed pops up, some of those great people take it upon themselves to control the environment so things can stay they way they are on our beloved forum. When that bad seed does not learn after many warnings, yes things are going to turn hostile since there is no face to face interaction and we just can't pick the guy up and throw him out of the bar, so to speak.
I find it completely dumb that so called "vets" show up out of the blue to put in their .02 cents on a situation that is already trying to be worked out. I also thinks it's completely retarded that the members that were sticking up for the forums were made to feel like the had to apologize for their actions, yet the bad seed has people coming to his rescue.
Some of the "vets" here need to practice what they preach, calling out good members of this forum was in complete bad taste and is no different then what good members were trying to do with the bad, yet they get chastised for it. If the "vets" would stop to think, many of them had a hand in having Ryan (aeonspiral) removed from the forums, should all the members involved with that start sending apologizes to Ryan and ask him to come back? I think not.
The forums are for everyone to use, new and old. Honestly it doesn't matter how many posts a person has to me, I could care less, it matters that we all found this place because we share the same hobby. Sorry "vets" the forums were not created for you, and the number of members is only going to grow, evolution, it's a crazy thing, and totally unstoppable.
Has the forums changed, YES, is going to stop changing, NO and really the only thing I see that is clearly different around here is the amount of hypocrisy that is spewed.
I think the "vets" that called out the good members of this place should apologize, after all, the good members were only giving their opinion and trying to do the right thing. Next time if maybe more good members backed people up a situation like what happened yesterday could come to a quicker resolution. I know this going to piss a lot of people off but, whatever, this is all just my opinion. Like it was so clearly pointed out, this belongs to Alex and The Beard, not to any of us, and if you have a high post count and all of this pisses you off enough to make you throw a fit and start threatening to leave, just remember there are plenty of noobs that will have 5000 - 7000 posts under their belt soon enough.
I'll wrap this rant up with saying, "vets" practice what you preach, you read something you don't like, well move on. Good members, keep up the good work, this place clearly needs people to call out the BS of other members so we can have a place we all enjoy. Certain "vet", no one owes you or this place an apology for doing what they though was the right thing. Im done!!
GIVE THIS MAN A CIGAR!!!!!!+101 and make sure its not a AJF,,,lol
Clique? What are these cliques? LOL. Sensitive people here.
I'm an outsider to the original bunch, yet seen lately as, how shall we say, "not in a clique". And, of course a bit older than most members. Kinda like the middle child. LOL. Live with it guys! Jeesh!!
clique? lol, all i ever thought of when someone meant to type botl it came out bork, to me we all all the same one, bork = botl. ive never noticed a set of 2 differnt cliques claiming to be a bork and another set claiming to be a botl, when i say someone is a great bork all i mean is a great botl, i use bork becuse its lol and that is all it is to me, now lets have some great borkism,lol, cant remember who it was that made that orginal typo bork? someone knows,lol, and borkism too,lol
Laker, can we be friends? BTW, how is your "writing" coming along, lol?
LOL, it's coming. With all the nasty feelings flying around here today it may be one of my last posts. This place seems to be evolving into just another online forum and the new members have the right to make it whatever the want. Then it can join the ranks of all the other great cigar forums out there. Seems like some are bent on creating a place where flaming and fighting are OK and commonplace, maybe even encouraged. But hey, it's their forums too.
Please do not Doug, who would I send candles to???? I think everyone needs to chill, smoke, apologize, and relax... Life is to short to get pissed a the Internet
I have to join in and apologize, I am pretty sure I'm the one who started to make this forum go down hill, I would like it to go back to the way it was when I first joined. So I'm going to do my part, again I apologize for U having a bad experience,
no one... not you.. not no one... had made iit go down hill. If it had gone down hill.... we wouldn't be here
As you said in the first sentence you have not been here very long. If you want to know what the members who have been here a long time are talking about... go read some old threads. To just come on here and say that everything changes without knowing what we are talking about is not helpful.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
WHOA Wait a minute, back the truck up.
I am a new member and I am in now way trying to "change" how things are done around here, just trying to fit in. Each and every member here was new at one time, and had to try and fit in. We are all individuals and all have our own ways of accomplishing exactly how and where we fit in, if at all. Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude. You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
This is all so freaking retarded, ALL OF IT!!! This forum is full of great people and a bad seed pops up, some of those great people take it upon themselves to control the environment so things can stay they way they are on our beloved forum. When that bad seed does not learn after many warnings, yes things are going to turn hostile since there is no face to face interaction and we just can't pick the guy up and throw him out of the bar, so to speak.
I find it completely dumb that so called "vets" show up out of the blue to put in their .02 cents on a situation that is already trying to be worked out. I also thinks it's completely retarded that the members that were sticking up for the forums were made to feel like the had to apologize for their actions, yet the bad seed has people coming to his rescue.
Some of the "vets" here need to practice what they preach, calling out good members of this forum was in complete bad taste and is no different then what good members were trying to do with the bad, yet they get chastised for it. If the "vets" would stop to think, many of them had a hand in having Ryan (aeonspiral) removed from the forums, should all the members involved with that start sending apologizes to Ryan and ask him to come back? I think not.
The forums are for everyone to use, new and old. Honestly it doesn't matter how many posts a person has to me, I could care less, it matters that we all found this place because we share the same hobby. Sorry "vets" the forums were not created for you, and the number of members is only going to grow, evolution, it's a crazy thing, and totally unstoppable.
Has the forums changed, YES, is going to stop changing, NO and really the only thing I see that is clearly different around here is the amount of hypocrisy that is spewed.
I think the "vets" that called out the good members of this place should apologize, after all, the good members were only giving their opinion and trying to do the right thing. Next time if maybe more good members backed people up a situation like what happened yesterday could come to a quicker resolution. I know this going to piss a lot of people off but, whatever, this is all just my opinion. Like it was so clearly pointed out, this belongs to Alex and The Beard, not to any of us, and if you have a high post count and all of this pisses you off enough to make you throw a fit and start threatening to leave, just remember there are plenty of noobs that will have 5000 - 7000 posts under their belt soon enough.
I'll wrap this rant up with saying, "vets" practice what you preach, you read something you don't like, well move on. Good members, keep up the good work, this place clearly needs people to call out the BS of other members so we can have a place we all enjoy. Certain "vet", no one owes you or this place an apology for doing what they though was the right thing. Im done!!
F-OFF! You whining little ***! Nothing was being worked out. You jack-offs were berating an BOTL. You want to call him out then do it with a PM.
Comments
I too often just pass through here without much to say because I don't feel at home.
We were all known as BOTL at one time. Then suddenly a small group of members started to refer to themselves as BORK's. This set that group apart from everyone else, and IMO was the start of the separation into smaller cliques.
It happens all the time in the "real world" as well. A group of people feel they are special in some way and want to identify themselves in a manner that will draw attention to this. I don't think this was done in a mean spirited way or anything but the affects are the same... a "special" group of memebrs within the whole group of BOTL.
I have NEVER refferred to myself as a BORK as I have always been more then proud to call myself and to be considered by others here as a BOTL and that will always be good enough for me. This is just my opinion, but once the separation begins it tends to roll on exponentially.
I think we all understand what a clique is, that was not the issue. We were a group of cigar smokers who enjoyed the company and discussions of others who enjoyed the same things.
When people start to look for others to include in a special little group within the group it tends to make everyone else feel left out. There are now several of these groups around here and it has lead to bad feelings. If you are correct in your assesment of society at large and we are doomed to have cliques around here because that's just the way it is... that is really too bad because that is NOT the way this place WAS. Rather then just saying things change get over it... new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well, and not be in such a hurry to change it. Just my opinion.
I don't really know how to respond to you. There is a problem around the forums and I was suggesting a possible fix.
You said...
Instead of saying "new members should maybe spend some time learning how, and why this place worked so well", maybe old members should spend sometime teaching new members how things work around here instead of having your "clique" attitude.
Ummm, that was what I was suggesting. There are many threads that lay out the way things are done around here. I was suggesting what you said and trying to teach the newer members where they might come across this information if they choose to do so. Somehow you turn that into me being guilty of being part of a clique? You obviously don't know me and so I will not take your comments too seriously, but my friend, I can assure you that I am a member of NO CLIQUES. I dispise them and think that they are the biggest problem we have around here.
You also state...
You are saying cliques are no good, but at the same time you are saying I as a new member need to learn how this place works, that in itself is a cliquish attitude. Meaning, do it our way or leave. Remember, most like myself came here to learn, and we search the old posts for topics that answer our questions, I for one am not going to just go back and read countless threads trying to get a finger on the pulse of the community. That happens as I participate just as it happened when you first started participating. As far as I am concerned your attitude in this thread is exactly what you are saying is wrong with this place.
You have no idea of what I did or what other members do when they joined here. I did indeed read tons of old threads and so do many others here. Maybe that is why for the number of members we have we have relatively few problems. Perhaps if the new members would read some to see how the FORUM (NOT ME!!!) feels things should be done. That was my way of trying to give you some information you could use to integrate yourself into the community with little trouble, and you turned it into me being guilty of what I am saying others should not do? Wow what is with the comprehension around here today. I say one thing and someone, somehow completely reads something different into it. (shaking head) This was not meant as a put down to newer members. I think you could ask and find that I have been very helpful to newer members in my time here.
One last thing Russ. If like you say you are not trying to change things around here and just trying to fit in? Then what makes you think my comments were directed towrds you?
Just for everyones clarification, I am not pissed, I am just fully baffled how new members come here and always seem to comment on how different we are and how much better we conduct ourselves without moderators and now we are having a discussion about how people feel they are being dictated to as to how to act here by older members? WHAT!!??
Take a breath guy's and ask yourself. If this place is special and does seem to work with little or no outside interferrence, could it be because of the way the "old guy's" took care of things? Is it so wrong for people to want to hold on to this place and what it is that makes it special? Somehow this turned into a thread about me being a little dictator, and I really don't get it.
I find it completely dumb that so called "vets" show up out of the blue to put in their .02 cents on a situation that is already trying to be worked out. I also thinks it's completely retarded that the members that were sticking up for the forums were made to feel like the had to apologize for their actions, yet the bad seed has people coming to his rescue.
Some of the "vets" here need to practice what they preach, calling out good members of this forum was in complete bad taste and is no different then what good members were trying to do with the bad, yet they get chastised for it. If the "vets" would stop to think, many of them had a hand in having Ryan (aeonspiral) removed from the forums, should all the members involved with that start sending apologizes to Ryan and ask him to come back? I think not.
The forums are for everyone to use, new and old. Honestly it doesn't matter how many posts a person has to me, I could care less, it matters that we all found this place because we share the same hobby. Sorry "vets" the forums were not created for you, and the number of members is only going to grow, evolution, it's a crazy thing, and totally unstoppable.
Has the forums changed, YES, is going to stop changing, NO and really the only thing I see that is clearly different around here is the amount of hypocrisy that is spewed.
I think the "vets" that called out the good members of this place should apologize, after all, the good members were only giving their opinion and trying to do the right thing. Next time if maybe more good members backed people up a situation like what happened yesterday could come to a quicker resolution. I know this going to piss a lot of people off but, whatever, this is all just my opinion. Like it was so clearly pointed out, this belongs to Alex and The Beard, not to any of us, and if you have a high post count and all of this pisses you off enough to make you throw a fit and start threatening to leave, just remember there are plenty of noobs that will have 5000 - 7000 posts under their belt soon enough.
I'll wrap this rant up with saying, "vets" practice what you preach, you read something you don't like, well move on. Good members, keep up the good work, this place clearly needs people to call out the BS of other members so we can have a place we all enjoy. Certain "vet", no one owes you or this place an apology for doing what they though was the right thing. Im done!!
and make sure its not a AJF,,,lol
I'm an outsider to the original bunch, yet seen lately as, how shall we say, "not in a clique". And, of course a bit older than most members. Kinda like the middle child. LOL. Live with it guys! Jeesh!!