So, I know on the front page, I put up a pretty thorough list of why I thought 5.56 was a good home defense round. As I have been looking into SBRs, however, I am now wondering if 5.56 is the way to go in anything under a maybe 11" barrel. I do still stand by it coming out of a 16" (or even 14.5") barrel, but it seems like the velocity may suffer enough that it no longer achieves the required fragmentation velocity out of a shorter barrel. Keep in mind, I haven't seen any hard numbers on the velocity of a 5.56 being shot from a 7.5" or 10" barrel at 25 yards yet, so I can't say for sure. Its basically just been reading reviews and skimming through AR forums.
The question is, if not 5.56, what round then? 300 Blackout seems to be pretty popular, especially for SBRs, but damn the ammo is on the expensive side. I was thinking maybe a pistol caliber, like maybe a .45 acp. I wonder what the recoil would be like on a .308 out of a 10" or shorter barrel? Any opinions?
If your looking to not have over penetration then I wouldn't go with .308 caliber bullets. But, if it was me, I wouldn't shoot a rifle in a house for self protection. They make plenty of home defense rounds in handgun loads that are made to not over penetrate, but not rifle loads. If you are dead set on getting a rifle for home defense, look into loading a light varmint bullet, like the 40 grain Nosler Varmageddon. Varmint bullets are made to basically explode on impact.
Look at youtube for some ballistic gelatin tests they are doing, that will show you just how far a .308 can penetrate.
Yeah, you're probably right about the .308 Brett. It looks like as long I stay at a 10" barrel or better, the 5.56 will reach fragmentation velocity. As far as the handgun rounds, do you mean like Glaser and Magsafe? I wouldn't trust that stuff for home defense, there's alot of reports of it not even penetrating heavy leather jackets.
My rifle is for home defense. In the sense that I will use it to defend my home and property before anyone with bad intentions actually reach my home. Inside my home I have Mr. Smith & Mr. Wesson with very big .45 hollow point home defense rounds to welcome anyone who makes it inside. I pray it never comes to that but it feels nice to be prepared.
In that case, just remember that they have to be in your house, not on your porch or even beating down your door. If you're in your house, the law needs them to be IN the house. Of course, if a true situation came up where you knew they were coming and what they were prepared to do, then there would probably be enough evidence elsewhere to make your case!
In that case, just remember that they have to be in your house, not on your porch or even beating down your door. If you're in your house, the law needs them to be IN the house. Of course, if a true situation came up where you knew they were coming and what they were prepared to do, then there would probably be enough evidence elsewhere to make your case!
I was just thinking worst case scenario - looting, Armageddon, zombie apocalypse, etc. For practicle purposes inside the home a handgun is our go to. Missouri Castle Law says you can defend your home and vehicle if you feel your life is in danger. We can also carry a handgun in our vehicle glovebox without a permit to carry concealed. I have heard of cases where someone has defending their property so that may fall use of force in defense of a person. The best advice is to know your state laws and educate and train. Like I said I just want peace and safety for my family. Hope I never have to hurt another person.
@Rex: Laws vary state to state. In Texas, for instance, the laws regarding using deadly force to defend your home are a bit more laxed than elsewhere in the country.
As far as the actual use of firearms, let's face it; at least 99.99% (hopefully 100%) of the time they are fun toys. They are used primarily for recreation, whether you hunt, go to the range and target shoot, participate in some form of competitive shooting, or just sit in your back yard and plink off cans. They are fun, and we like owning them. They are also a symbol of our personal freedom, there are many countries where the citizens cannot own firearms, and even more where they are severely more restricted than in America. Those are the main reason we own our firearms. If the only reason I had guns was for home defense or a SHTF scenario, I would only have 2 or maybe 3. I currently own 2 pistols, 2 shotguns, and 2 rifles and will be purchasing two 1911s as soon as I get home. I have plans on building a SBR and at some point picking up a Tavor SAR, 30/30, probably a bolt action .308, a 10/22 and Remington R51 for my wife, and more than likely a polymer .45acp of some type. They are fun; fun to own, fun to shoot, just plain fun to have.
Now, that being said, they are also there for the purpose of personal/home defense. Hopefully that scenario never presents itself, but if it does, I will use the most effective weapons I have at my disposal to defend my family and home. Do I need to build a SBR for home defense? No, absolutely not. If I am unable to effectively defend my realm with an AR15, Taurus CT40, Remington 870, and a few pistols, a SBR is not going to help. However, I want an SBR because I really dig the idea of it. I like knowing I can have one, and I think it will be a blast to shoot. And if I have it, I think it may be marginally more effective than anything already in my arsenal in an indoor scenario. So, it will take up the primary role of home defense.
The situation you have to deal with could be a simple theif or two busting into your house armed with nothing more than a crowbar. It could be something as serious as 4 or 5 invaders breaking into your home with no purpose other than to cause you and your family harm. Hell, it could be the zombie apocalypse/Red Dawn/end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenario. I like knowing that I am as prepared as I can be, firearm wise, for any of these scenarios. Will any of them happen? Chances are no. More than likely, the only time I fire any of my weapons, I will be aiming at paper targets or cans on a fencepost. But, as the old addage goes, it is better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.
I kind of got into this earlier, but there is no right answer for what type of firearm is the most effective for home defense. If you know the exact circumstances of the scenario ahead of time, you can narrow down what type of weapon would be best FOR YOU, but we don't know the scenario ahead of time. You have to determine what works best for you in a multitude of scenarios. Maybe its a .357 magnum revolver, maybe its a pump-action 12 gauge, maybe its a .22lr target pistol. For me, personally, I believe I can be the most effective in a home defense scenario with a tactical carbine. I would not even begin to argue against someone else preferring the use of a 1911 or a Glock or a 20gauge shotgun. I would give my advice, if asked, but ultimately the choice is on the user. What weapon can you most effectively put rounds on target with? What level of risk of collateral damage are you willing to accept? How much are you willing to spend on your home defense weapon? How much training do you have with the platform you are going to use? How expensive is the ammo and is there a range or other place nearby where you can go train with your chosen weapon? All these questions should factor in to your choice. I am lucky enough to have a job that allows me some expendable income. I used some of this expendable income to acquire some firearms that I wanted. As a result, I have a decent selection of weapons to choose from for any given scenario. Many people, however, only own the firearm they plan to use for defensive purposes. They should weigh all the options and do some research on their own to pick the weapon that's right for them.
@Rex: Laws vary state to state. In Texas, for instance, the laws regarding using deadly force to defend your home are a bit more laxed than elsewhere in the country.
As far as the actual use of firearms, let's face it; at least 99.99% (hopefully 100%) of the time they are fun toys. They are used primarily for recreation, whether you hunt, go to the range and target shoot, participate in some form of competitive shooting, or just sit in your back yard and plink off cans. They are fun, and we like owning them. They are also a symbol of our personal freedom, there are many countries where the citizens cannot own firearms, and even more where they are severely more restricted than in America. Those are the main reason we own our firearms. If the only reason I had guns was for home defense or a SHTF scenario, I would only have 2 or maybe 3. I currently own 2 pistols, 2 shotguns, and 2 rifles and will be purchasing two 1911s as soon as I get home. I have plans on building a SBR and at some point picking up a Tavor SAR, 30/30, probably a bolt action .308, a 10/22 and Remington R51 for my wife, and more than likely a polymer .45acp of some type. They are fun; fun to own, fun to shoot, just plain fun to have.
Now, that being said, they are also there for the purpose of personal/home defense. Hopefully that scenario never presents itself, but if it does, I will use the most effective weapons I have at my disposal to defend my family and home. Do I need to build a SBR for home defense? No, absolutely not. If I am unable to effectively defend my realm with an AR15, Taurus CT40, Remington 870, and a few pistols, a SBR is not going to help. However, I want an SBR because I really dig the idea of it. I like knowing I can have one, and I think it will be a blast to shoot. And if I have it, I think it may be marginally more effective than anything already in my arsenal in an indoor scenario. So, it will take up the primary role of home defense.
The situation you have to deal with could be a simple theif or two busting into your house armed with nothing more than a crowbar. It could be something as serious as 4 or 5 invaders breaking into your home with no purpose other than to cause you and your family harm. Hell, it could be the zombie apocalypse/Red Dawn/end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenario. I like knowing that I am as prepared as I can be, firearm wise, for any of these scenarios. Will any of them happen? Chances are no. More than likely, the only time I fire any of my weapons, I will be aiming at paper targets or cans on a fencepost. But, as the old addage goes, it is better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.
I kind of got into this earlier, but there is no right answer for what type of firearm is the most effective for home defense. If you know the exact circumstances of the scenario ahead of time, you can narrow down what type of weapon would be best FOR YOU, but we don't know the scenario ahead of time. You have to determine what works best for you in a multitude of scenarios. Maybe its a .357 magnum revolver, maybe its a pump-action 12 gauge, maybe its a .22lr target pistol. For me, personally, I believe I can be the most effective in a home defense scenario with a tactical carbine. I would not even begin to argue against someone else preferring the use of a 1911 or a Glock or a 20gauge shotgun. I would give my advice, if asked, but ultimately the choice is on the user. What weapon can you most effectively put rounds on target with? What level of risk of collateral damage are you willing to accept? How much are you willing to spend on your home defense weapon? How much training do you have with the platform you are going to use? How expensive is the ammo and is there a range or other place nearby where you can go train with your chosen weapon? All these questions should factor in to your choice. I am lucky enough to have a job that allows me some expendable income. I used some of this expendable income to acquire some firearms that I wanted. As a result, I have a decent selection of weapons to choose from for any given scenario. Many people, however, only own the firearm they plan to use for defensive purposes. They should weigh all the options and do some research on their own to pick the weapon that's right for them.
Well said. We even bought compound bows which was my wife's idea. They can be used for all sorts of purposes and they are fun to shoot. It isn't a practical weapon for home or self defense but if it is what you have at the moment it can serve that purpose. We just want to have multiple options.
"I kind of got into this earlier, but there is no right answer for what type of firearm is the most effective for home defense. If you know the exact circumstances of the scenario ahead of time, you can narrow down what type of weapon would be best FOR YOU, but we don't know the scenario ahead of time. You have to determine what works best for you in a multitude of scenarios. Maybe its a .357 magnum revolver, maybe its a pump-action 12 gauge, maybe its a .22lr target pistol. For me, personally, I believe I can be the most effective in a home defense scenario with a tactical carbine. I would not even begin to argue against someone else preferring the use of a 1911 or a Glock or a 20gauge shotgun. I would give my advice, if asked, but ultimately the choice is on the user. What weapon can you most effectively put rounds on target with? What level of risk of collateral damage are you willing to accept? How much are you willing to spend on your home defense weapon? How much training do you have with the platform you are going to use? How expensive is the ammo and is there a range or other place nearby where you can go train with your chosen weapon? All these questions should factor in to your choice. I am lucky enough to have a job that allows me some expendable income. I used some of this expendable income to acquire some firearms that I wanted. As a result, I have a decent selection of weapons to choose from for any given scenario. Many people, however, only own the firearm they plan to use for defensive purposes. They should weigh all the options and do some research on their own to pick the weapon that's right for them. "
Well stated Build/buy whatever SBR, in whatever caliber you feel comfortable shooting. My advice would be to buy/build a 2nd one in 22lr. They can be a very fun alternative for training/plinking and at about 10% the cost of a day shooting
@Jacob: We actually want to get a compound bow also. I used to shoot kinda-sorta competitively in high school (I was on our HS archery team), but I haven't shot since then. The wife just thinks it would be fun. Plus, its a great SHTF weapon; more or less silent, reusable ammo, excellent for hunting and decent for defense.
@Sasquatch: I'm probably going to pick up a Ruger 10/22 for my wife for Mother's Day or our Anniversary. Mainly depends on when the Remington R51 becomes available. She'll be getting the R51 for one of those days and the 10/22 for the other, lol.
@Jacob: We actually want to get a compound bow also. I used to shoot kinda-sorta competitively in high school (I was on our HS archery team), but I haven't shot since then. The wife just thinks it would be fun. Plus, its a great SHTF weapon; more or less silent, reusable ammo, excellent for hunting and decent for defense.
@Sasquatch: I'm probably going to pick up a Ruger 10/22 for my wife for Mother's Day or our Anniversary. Mainly depends on when the Remington R51 becomes available. She'll be getting the R51 for one of those days and the 10/22 for the other, lol.
I picked up the 597 Yellow jacket last summer and it flat kicks a$$. Stick a nice scope on it and shoot some CCI stingers, and you have a heck of a rabbit gun.
Oh, wow man, that Yellojacket does look pretty sweet! I might have to go with it instead of the 10/22. Nice DPMS, too. Man, Gunbroker is dangerous, lol. This one has been tempting me for a good while now.....
Yeah, its nothing I plan on getting soon. I'll be buying the parts for my SBR over the next 6 months or so. After that, I'll start putting a little up at a time for the SAR, and hopefully have enough stashed away that I can finish it off with next year's income taxes, lol.
Its funny you mentioned the XDS, I am seriously looking at picking up another polymer pistol, but this time a .45. I already have a service size XD in .40, but I want a polymer .45 too, lol. The XDS is just too small for me, but I am probably going to go with another XD, maybe the XDM .45 compact. I plan on looking at the S&W M&P and Ruger SR45, but there is going to have to be something super specail about them to get me away from another XD. I absolutely love the one I have.
Yeah it is a small, but that's what I want. I wanted something slim enough to CC, but still have a punch when you pull the trigger. I picked up a Taurus millennium last year and it works great, but its a double stack. Trying to conceal a double stack is kinda hard when your a guy my size.
I was looking at the Milleniums recently, how do you like it? I'm a little on the bigger side, so concealment isn't too big of an issue. If I wear an open shirt over a t-shirt, I can wear my service size XD in a paddle holster and it doesn't print much. When I put it in a pancake holster, its pretty much invisible.
@Jacob: We actually want to get a compound bow also. I used to shoot kinda-sorta competitively in high school (I was on our HS archery team), but I haven't shot since then. The wife just thinks it would be fun. Plus, its a great SHTF weapon; more or less silent, reusable ammo, excellent for hunting and decent for defense.
That is why my wife wanted one. Another tool if SHTF and we need to protect and feed the family. In the meantime they are fun to shoot. My wife got one first and after I watched her launch a few arrows I decided I needed one too. I got a Bear Encounter. She has a Bowtech The Edge. We have never been hunting but we are probably going to give it a try this year. We fish a lot and she enjoys the outdoors. Waiting for nice weather so we can get some targets set up in the backyard.
Wife also wants a .22 rifle to shoot for practice.
I was looking at the Milleniums recently, how do you like it? I'm a little on the bigger side, so concealment isn't too big of an issue. If I wear an open shirt over a t-shirt, I can wear my service size XD in a paddle holster and it doesn't print much. When I put it in a pancake holster, its pretty much invisible.
I love my millennium, I have put 500 rounds of my reloads in it without a jam. Other nice thing about it is the price.
That is why my wife wanted one. Another tool if SHTF and we need to protect and feed the family. In the meantime they are fun to shoot. My wife got one first and after I watched her launch a few arrows I decided I needed one too. I got a Bear Encounter. She has a Bowtech The Edge. We have never been hunting but we are probably going to give it a try this year. We fish a lot and she enjoys the outdoors. Waiting for nice weather so we can get some targets set up in the backyard.
Wife also wants a .22 rifle to shoot for practice.
Yeah, like I said above, I'm gonna get the wife a 10/22 (or maybe a Remington Yellowjacket now, lol) for target shooting. I doubt either of us will ever take up hunting, but we will be regulars at the range. I plan on putting in a little mini-range behind our house when we buy one, lol. The bow will just be another one of those things, something to have fun with. I've been looking at a few of the different PSE's available, they were my favorite makers when I was in high school.
firetruckguy:
I love my millennium, I have put 500 rounds of my reloads in it without a jam. Other nice thing about it is the price.
Right on. I know the G2s only come in 9mm and .40, but they had the original chambered in .45 also, right?
Nice. I am leaning really heavy towards another XD, but I am definitely going to check out the S&W M&P and Ruger SR45. I might add Taurus to the list. I used to have a Taurus Raging Bull .454 Casull. Man, I loved that gun. Its the only gun I ever got rid of that I really regret. If I had a chance to pick up another one of those, I might go with that instead, lol.
I was liking the looks of the S&W until I picked one up. Felt like I was holding a cheep Chinese squirt gun for some reason. I'm a true believer that the gun must feel right to shoot it well.
I agree totally. Did you get to try it with any of the different back straps? Or did it just overall feel cheaply put together or something? I love the way my XD feels, like I said, its going to take something awesome about one of the other brands to get me to not go with the XD.
Comments
Look at youtube for some ballistic gelatin tests they are doing, that will show you just how far a .308 can penetrate.
As far as the actual use of firearms, let's face it; at least 99.99% (hopefully 100%) of the time they are fun toys. They are used primarily for recreation, whether you hunt, go to the range and target shoot, participate in some form of competitive shooting, or just sit in your back yard and plink off cans. They are fun, and we like owning them. They are also a symbol of our personal freedom, there are many countries where the citizens cannot own firearms, and even more where they are severely more restricted than in America. Those are the main reason we own our firearms. If the only reason I had guns was for home defense or a SHTF scenario, I would only have 2 or maybe 3. I currently own 2 pistols, 2 shotguns, and 2 rifles and will be purchasing two 1911s as soon as I get home. I have plans on building a SBR and at some point picking up a Tavor SAR, 30/30, probably a bolt action .308, a 10/22 and Remington R51 for my wife, and more than likely a polymer .45acp of some type. They are fun; fun to own, fun to shoot, just plain fun to have.
Now, that being said, they are also there for the purpose of personal/home defense. Hopefully that scenario never presents itself, but if it does, I will use the most effective weapons I have at my disposal to defend my family and home. Do I need to build a SBR for home defense? No, absolutely not. If I am unable to effectively defend my realm with an AR15, Taurus CT40, Remington 870, and a few pistols, a SBR is not going to help. However, I want an SBR because I really dig the idea of it. I like knowing I can have one, and I think it will be a blast to shoot. And if I have it, I think it may be marginally more effective than anything already in my arsenal in an indoor scenario. So, it will take up the primary role of home defense.
The situation you have to deal with could be a simple theif or two busting into your house armed with nothing more than a crowbar. It could be something as serious as 4 or 5 invaders breaking into your home with no purpose other than to cause you and your family harm. Hell, it could be the zombie apocalypse/Red Dawn/end-of-the-world-as-we-know-it scenario. I like knowing that I am as prepared as I can be, firearm wise, for any of these scenarios. Will any of them happen? Chances are no. More than likely, the only time I fire any of my weapons, I will be aiming at paper targets or cans on a fencepost. But, as the old addage goes, it is better to have a gun and not need it than need a gun and not have it.
I kind of got into this earlier, but there is no right answer for what type of firearm is the most effective for home defense. If you know the exact circumstances of the scenario ahead of time, you can narrow down what type of weapon would be best FOR YOU, but we don't know the scenario ahead of time. You have to determine what works best for you in a multitude of scenarios. Maybe its a .357 magnum revolver, maybe its a pump-action 12 gauge, maybe its a .22lr target pistol. For me, personally, I believe I can be the most effective in a home defense scenario with a tactical carbine. I would not even begin to argue against someone else preferring the use of a 1911 or a Glock or a 20gauge shotgun. I would give my advice, if asked, but ultimately the choice is on the user. What weapon can you most effectively put rounds on target with? What level of risk of collateral damage are you willing to accept? How much are you willing to spend on your home defense weapon? How much training do you have with the platform you are going to use? How expensive is the ammo and is there a range or other place nearby where you can go train with your chosen weapon? All these questions should factor in to your choice. I am lucky enough to have a job that allows me some expendable income. I used some of this expendable income to acquire some firearms that I wanted. As a result, I have a decent selection of weapons to choose from for any given scenario. Many people, however, only own the firearm they plan to use for defensive purposes. They should weigh all the options and do some research on their own to pick the weapon that's right for them.
Well stated
Build/buy whatever SBR, in whatever caliber you feel comfortable shooting. My advice would be to buy/build a 2nd one in 22lr. They can be a very fun alternative for training/plinking and at about 10% the cost of a day shooting
@Sasquatch: I'm probably going to pick up a Ruger 10/22 for my wife for Mother's Day or our Anniversary. Mainly depends on when the Remington R51 becomes available. She'll be getting the R51 for one of those days and the 10/22 for the other, lol.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=394178308
I picked up the 597 Yellow jacket last summer and it flat kicks a$$. Stick a nice scope on it and shoot some CCI stingers, and you have a heck of a rabbit gun.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=387367796
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=394351815
Yeah gunbroker is a fun sight, I have found some killer deals over the last year on 4 of my toys.
This is my next buy.......http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=392100316
Its funny you mentioned the XDS, I am seriously looking at picking up another polymer pistol, but this time a .45. I already have a service size XD in .40, but I want a polymer .45 too, lol. The XDS is just too small for me, but I am probably going to go with another XD, maybe the XDM .45 compact. I plan on looking at the S&W M&P and Ruger SR45, but there is going to have to be something super specail about them to get me away from another XD. I absolutely love the one I have.
Wife also wants a .22 rifle to shoot for practice.
Yeah, like I said above, I'm gonna get the wife a 10/22 (or maybe a Remington Yellowjacket now, lol) for target shooting. I doubt either of us will ever take up hunting, but we will be regulars at the range. I plan on putting in a little mini-range behind our house when we buy one, lol. The bow will just be another one of those things, something to have fun with. I've been looking at a few of the different PSE's available, they were my favorite makers when I was in high school.
Right on. I know the G2s only come in 9mm and .40, but they had the original chambered in .45 also, right?
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=393744504