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Question for the Gun people

brianetz1brianetz1 St. Louis, MOPosts: 4,135 ✭✭✭
Ok I am admittedly not a gun guy. I don't see the need for 75% of the population to have anything more than a couple of different hunting riffles and personally feel handguns, assault rifles, and shotguns cause more harm than good, BUT i am all good if you don't agree with me and totally respect that view on things. I just don't have that view.

a question came up on the radio on the way in to work that made me want to ask this place because i assume that 90% of you disagree with the above statement:

Why would a regular everyday person have an unlicensed gun?

what brought this up is that Ray Felton of the NY Knicks is facing YEARS in prison because he was found in possession of an unlicensed firearm in NY. Why would a NBA player who makes millions be in possession of an unlicensed firearm? Is there a benefit to having an unlicensed firearm other than if you use it, it can't be traced back to you?
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Comments

  • RainRain Posts: 8,960 ✭✭✭
    Does unlicensed mean that it was not registered or that like the serial number was scratched off? I'm not a gun guy either.
  • alienmisprintalienmisprint Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭
    Well, alot of that varies on state laws. In Texas, for instance, your firearms aren't licensed at all. When you purchase it, it is registered with the ATF, and that's it. So every gun I own is unlicensed. As far as maintaining an unlicensed firearm in a place that requires local licensing, I would think the main reason someone would want that would be fear of confiscation. If the authorities don't know you have guns, then they won't come to your house to take them if it ever comes to that.
  • brianetz1brianetz1 St. Louis, MOPosts: 4,135 ✭✭✭
    the law he is in most trouble for is possessing a gun he was not registered to have. So buying a firearm and not registering it.

    which again, makes no sense to me.

    isn't it against the 2nd amendment for authorities to confiscate legal weapons?
  • pelirrojopelirrojo Farmington, NMPosts: 1,759 ✭✭✭
    I only own one gun. It was handed down to me by my father and to him from his father. It definitely isn't registered or licensed to me but I shoot it on occasion. I suppose it fits the definition of unlicensed. Lots of scenarios out there.
  • curtiscr79curtiscr79 Posts: 861
    brianetz1:
    the law he is in most trouble for is possessing a gun he was not registered to have. So buying a firearm and not registering it.

    which again, makes no sense to me.

    isn't it against the 2nd amendment for authorities to confiscate legal weapons?
    My state does not require a firearm to be registered. Even the ones that I have purchased from a dealer and filled out the forms for the ATF. When I purchase a firearm (Lets say pistol) in KY from a dealer, the forms are filled out, the dealer calls the ATF gives them my info for a background check and the ATF asks if it is a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. So all they know is on a given date I applied to purchase a pistol from X dealer. The forms have more info, but that stays at the dealer for record keeping. The ATF has the ability to check that the dealer is keeping proper records, however that doesn't happen very often.

    Now if you want to talk person to person sales. As long as both the seller and the buyer are residents of the state of KY, the most that is needed is a bill of sale and it isn't a requirement. Just a insurance for both parties in case the firearm wasis used in a crime.

    Only firearms that I know of that require a form of registration are the Full auto, destructive weapons like grenades and rockets, and Short Barrel RifleShotguns.
  • twistedstemtwistedstem jacksonville floridaPosts: 3,866 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Florida doesn't require you to register your guns.actually have gun shows where you can buy from owners directly.so none of my guns are registered,but if I moved somewhere I had to I would.I would think only reason to have an unregistered gun where you shouldn't would be to keep it untraceable ,that's just my opinion could be wrong,and in know way am I trying offend anyone else's personal belief in this area..
    For a moment i dont even care.. Until i feel its hand on my neck

  • brianetz1brianetz1 St. Louis, MOPosts: 4,135 ✭✭✭
    curtiscr79:
    brianetz1:
    the law he is in most trouble for is possessing a gun he was not registered to have. So buying a firearm and not registering it.

    which again, makes no sense to me.

    isn't it against the 2nd amendment for authorities to confiscate legal weapons?
    My state does not require a firearm to be registered. Even the ones that I have purchased from a dealer and filled out the forms for the ATF. When I purchase a firearm (Lets say pistol) in KY from a dealer, the forms are filled out, the dealer calls the ATF gives them my info for a background check and the ATF asks if it is a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. So all they know is on a given date I applied to purchase a pistol from X dealer. The forms have more info, but that stays at the dealer for record keeping. The ATF has the ability to check that the dealer is keeping proper records, however that doesn't happen very often.

    Now if you want to talk person to person sales. As long as both the seller and the buyer are residents of the state of KY, the most that is needed is a bill of sale and it isn't a requirement. Just a insurance for both parties in case the firearm wasis used in a crime.

    Only firearms that I know of that require a form of registration are the Full auto, destructive weapons like grenades and rockets, and Short Barrel RifleShotguns.
    i guess maybe i am not understanding the terminology. When you buy a gun through a dealer, you go through a process where you have to fill out paperwork to prove that you are not a criminal, crazy, a fugitive, etc, etc, etc right? Only exception is person to person sales right?

    Now let's say you live in NY or one of those places with "crazy" gun laws that make you register your gun and you buy person to person where you don't have to fill out that paperwork, but you still have to license your gun. Why would you not register it?
  • Lee.mcglynnLee.mcglynn HahahahaaaaaPosts: 6,030 ✭✭✭✭
    brianetz1:
    Ok I am admittedly not a gun guy. I don't see the need for 75% of the population to have anything more than a couple of different hunting riffles and personally feel handguns, assault rifles, and shotguns cause more harm than good, BUT i am all good if you don't agree with me and totally respect that view on things. I just don't have that view.

    a question came up on the radio on the way in to work that made me want to ask this place because i assume that 90% of you disagree with the above statement:

    Why would a regular everyday person have an unlicensed gun?

    what brought this up is that Ray Felton of the NY Knicks is facing YEARS in prison because he was found in possession of an unlicensed firearm in NY. Why would a NBA player who makes millions be in possession of an unlicensed firearm? Is there a benefit to having an unlicensed firearm other than if you use it, it can't be traced back to you?
    i think you answered your own question... Plus I'm sure he thought his fame would get him out of being searched
    Money can't buy taste
  • curtiscr79curtiscr79 Posts: 861
    brianetz1:
    curtiscr79:
    brianetz1:
    the law he is in most trouble for is possessing a gun he was not registered to have. So buying a firearm and not registering it.

    which again, makes no sense to me.

    isn't it against the 2nd amendment for authorities to confiscate legal weapons?
    My state does not require a firearm to be registered. Even the ones that I have purchased from a dealer and filled out the forms for the ATF. When I purchase a firearm (Lets say pistol) in KY from a dealer, the forms are filled out, the dealer calls the ATF gives them my info for a background check and the ATF asks if it is a rifle, pistol, or shotgun. So all they know is on a given date I applied to purchase a pistol from X dealer. The forms have more info, but that stays at the dealer for record keeping. The ATF has the ability to check that the dealer is keeping proper records, however that doesn't happen very often.

    Now if you want to talk person to person sales. As long as both the seller and the buyer are residents of the state of KY, the most that is needed is a bill of sale and it isn't a requirement. Just a insurance for both parties in case the firearm wasis used in a crime.

    Only firearms that I know of that require a form of registration are the Full auto, destructive weapons like grenades and rockets, and Short Barrel RifleShotguns.
    i guess maybe i am not understanding the terminology. When you buy a gun through a dealer, you go through a process where you have to fill out paperwork to prove that you are not a criminal, crazy, a fugitive, etc, etc, etc right? Only exception is person to person sales right?

    Now let's say you live in NY or one of those places with "crazy" gun laws that make you register your gun and you buy person to person where you don't have to fill out that paperwork, but you still have to license your gun. Why would you not register it?
    Correct, if you buy from a dealer you have to have a background check ran.

    Stated like NY that have very crazy gun laws like they do the only reason I know of to not follow the laws could be a few things like, Ignorance of the laws, they are up to something shady, or even they think they are above the law (my vote is this).
  • 0patience0patience Oregon CoastPosts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    pelirrojo:
    I only own one gun. It was handed down to me by my father and to him from his father. It definitely isn't registered or licensed to me but I shoot it on occasion. I suppose it fits the definition of unlicensed. Lots of scenarios out there.
    This.^^
    Every gun I own has been handed down to me by someone in my family, with exception of one.
    The one purchased, was registered when it was purchased, but no idea if it's licensed.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • PAtoNHPAtoNH Posts: 430
    0patience:
    pelirrojo:
    I only own one gun. It was handed down to me by my father and to him from his father. It definitely isn't registered or licensed to me but I shoot it on occasion. I suppose it fits the definition of unlicensed. Lots of scenarios out there.
    This.^^
    Every gun I own has been handed down to me by someone in my family, with exception of one.
    The one purchased, was registered when it was purchased, but no idea if it's licensed.


    This pretty much describes me too and many of the gun owners I know. When a non gun person says "why do you need so many" I can only point at my dad & grandad who gave me most of the rifles I own. I have purchased a deer rifle for my own use & caliber preference. I don't own handguns or semi-autos. Most of my gun purchases have been air rifles because I enjoy shooting and can get a lot of trigger time in my back yard with them.
  • SleevePlzSleevePlz Goodrich, MIPosts: 6,249 ✭✭✭✭
    To answer your specific question, Brian, I'll assume the answer is because he is an idiot. If it is a law to register your firearms and you don't, then you are intentionally breaking the law. The fact that he makes millions playing a kid's game doesn't make him smart, apparently.
    LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
  • New_BootsNew_Boots Posts: 2,652 ✭✭
    I'm in the market for a handgun right now. Kansas is "Open Carry". No license, no registration...just your standard paperwork at the shop. So...when I move? I check the laws there, register if needed...etc. Easy pesy. Eventually, I'd like to get my federal CCP. However, that's in due time...and with due cash...lol
  • macs-smokesmacs-smokes Posts: 587
    In Ks if you purchase a new gun via a licensed dealer... a regesistration of sorts (all the paperwork crap for background check). However if you buy a gun from a private individual you can opt to register with local authority. I have a dealer I buy through that only charges me $25 over the cost of the equipment. Transfer fee...
  • New_BootsNew_Boots Posts: 2,652 ✭✭
    macs-smokes:
    In Ks if you purchase a new gun via a licensed dealer... a regesistration of sorts (all the paperwork crap for background check). However if you buy a gun from a private individual you can opt to register with local authority. I have a dealer I buy through that only charges me $25 over the cost of the equipment. Transfer fee...
    PM to you
  • macs-smokesmacs-smokes Posts: 587
    Replied Sarge
  • New_BootsNew_Boots Posts: 2,652 ✭✭
    Not in the market anymore! Wife got me a Walther PPQ 40 for our anniversary
  • VulchorVulchor FloridaPosts: 4,844 ✭✭✭
    Hoping not to thread jack------but anyone else here not own a gun, never own a gun, and never fired a gun?
  • New_BootsNew_Boots Posts: 2,652 ✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Hoping not to thread jack------but anyone else here not own a gun, never own a gun, and never fired a gun?
    Actually fits well in the conversation
  • danielzreyesdanielzreyes Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Hoping not to thread jack------but anyone else here not own a gun, never own a gun, and never fired a gun?
    no, no, many times
    "It's plume, bro. Nothing to worry about. Got any Opus?" The suppose to be DZR
  • Thanatos0320Thanatos0320 Posts: 578 ✭✭✭
    I don't know why someone wouldn't register a gun in a place where a gun is required to be registered. The only thing i can think of, with my young mind, is maybe he had it because he may have had some dirty work he wanted to do, and if he dropped the gun or it was confiscated for whatever it couldn't be traced back to him. Here in TN you don't have to register your guns. If you run the serial # on my gun then it'll come up with the store I bought my gun from.
  • 0patience0patience Oregon CoastPosts: 9,961 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Vulchor:
    Hoping not to thread jack------but anyone else here not own a gun, never own a gun, and never fired a gun?
    A valid question.
    I know several people who have never owned a gun, nor handled a gun.
    When I was younger, hunting was a necessity for food.
    It wasn't a sport or something we did for fun. We just did.
    Everyone we knew had guns. We reloaded our own to save money.
    A deer or elk would put food on the table for an entire year, if butchered properly.
    Add ducks to that mix and you could eat pretty well.

    I no longer hunt. Not because I didn't enjoy it, but because I no longer need that food source as bad.
    Should I need deer or elk meat, there are plenty of folk who will provide it to me.

    I still have my guns, because they were handed down to me and the thought of someone else owning them bothers me.
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • Jetmech_63Jetmech_63 Posts: 3,454 ✭✭✭
    I was trying to stay out of this but mmmmmaybe my thoughts can be relevant and intelligently debated...
    I have many guns, 32 at last count. Some are registered to me and some are not. There s a difference between registered and licensed depending on the state/locale you live in. Where I live guns are not required to be licensed but all guns are required to be registered to you via the federal system(DROS/Transfer)
    That being said, all but 15 of my guns are registered to me(and I have some reservations about going public about this on an open forum). In my opinion the only reason to register anything(cars, boats, firearms, ATVs etc...) is so that the government can either A.) Tax them, B.) regulate them or C.) Confiscate them. There have been publicly documented instances in American history, as recent as hurricane Katrina and as far back as WW2 that the government (state and local) have forcibly disarmed the general public. This is contrary to the Second Amendment. I'll go so far as to say some of my unregistered firearms are not within the confines of my immediate property. Because of that, I will never be completely disarmed. Now, I am a law abiding tax paying citizen with no felony or misdemeanors on record and actually hold a Mid level clearance with the government. In my opinion, it is my right to be able to defend myself and my family without interference from any level of government.
    Ill caveat this with the fact that I am a hobby reloader and compete in USPSA and local bench rest long range competitions so guns for me are both hobby and sport. Am I a prepper? Depends on how you define that. After living in MD in the midst of ice storms and frequent grid shut downs, I am adequaey prepared for most simar scenarios. But getting back to the original question, registering or not registering is a matter of intent thereof. Some don't register with sinister intent, others with valid what I believe valid reasoning.
    again I look forward to thoughtful debate without resorting to name calling and political pigeon holing.
  • New_BootsNew_Boots Posts: 2,652 ✭✭
    Jetmech_63:
    I was trying to stay out of this but mmmmmaybe my thoughts can be relevant and intelligently debated...
    I have many guns, 32 at last count. Some are registered to me and some are not. There s a difference between registered and licensed depending on the state/locale you live in. Where I live guns are not required to be licensed but all guns are required to be registered to you via the federal system(DROS/Transfer)
    That being said, all but 15 of my guns are registered to me(and I have some reservations about going public about this on an open forum). In my opinion the only reason to register anything(cars, boats, firearms, ATVs etc...) is so that the government can either A.) Tax them, B.) regulate them or C.) Confiscate them. There have been publicly documented instances in American history, as recent as hurricane Katrina and as far back as WW2 that the government (state and local) have forcibly disarmed the general public. This is contrary to the Second Amendment. I'll go so far as to say some of my unregistered firearms are not within the confines of my immediate property. Because of that, I will never be completely disarmed. Now, I am a law abiding tax paying citizen with no felony or misdemeanors on record and actually hold a Mid level clearance with the government. In my opinion, it is my right to be able to defend myself and my family without interference from any level of government.
    Ill caveat this with the fact that I am a hobby reloader and compete in USPSA and local bench rest long range competitions so guns for me are both hobby and sport. Am I a prepper? Depends on how you define that. After living in MD in the midst of ice storms and frequent grid shut downs, I am adequaey prepared for most simar scenarios. But getting back to the original question, registering or not registering is a matter of intent thereof. Some don't register with sinister intent, others with valid what I believe valid reasoning.
    again I look forward to thoughtful debate without resorting to name calling and political pigeon holing.
    See, for pretty much all of this, I'm right with ya. Except for being jelly at how many you have. I will have my first gun I've actually owned by Friday. It was purchased, brand new, through a local dealer/shop...so it's now "registered" in Kansas. However, if I had a larger number of them...would they all be "registered"...no. I do believe in the 2nd amendment, and the other 26 for that matter. I also believe we are living with a Government who will bend those amendment's as far as they possibly can.
  • alienmisprintalienmisprint Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭
    brianetz1:
    the law he is in most trouble for is possessing a gun he was not registered to have. So buying a firearm and not registering it.

    which again, makes no sense to me.

    isn't it against the 2nd amendment for authorities to confiscate legal weapons?

    I guess that depends on how you interpret the second amendment. The way I interpret it, yes, it is against the 2nd amendment to confiscate legal weapons. However, the definition of legal not only varies state-to-state, but it can also change. Let's say my state, Texas, passes a law banning all firearms with magazine capacity higher than 5. At that point, they could confiscate my weapons.

    Look at California, where they are constantly dropping handguns off their approved list. There are even many revolvers that are not on the approved handgun list there. You could purchase a handgun there today, and a few months down the road they drop it off the list. When they do that, your handgun is no longer legal, and therefore subject to confiscation. On top of that, they just recently passed a law prohibiting the sale of semi automatic handguns that do not include the microstamping (the pistol stamps its make, model, and serial number on the casing as it fires) feature. I believe that currently citizens who already own non-microstamping pistols are grandfathered in, but that is as easy as a bill passing in state legislature to revoke.

  • Gaetano7890Gaetano7890 NYPosts: 800 ✭✭✭
    In NYC it is very hard to get a registered handgun. Very few pistol permits are given out and have to be personally signed by the police commissioner. Funny thing is most of the people with pistol permits are also anti gun lobbyist, but are multi millionaires and claim they need to carry a handgun cause they carry large sums of cash around. A Rockefeller is one in particular that I know of. So this would be why someone would have a unregistered handgun in NYC. There are probably at least 2 unregistered handguns for every person in the city. Most handguns in NYC are purchased in VA and other cities with less strict laws and brought in and sold.
  • jd50aejd50ae West Gnawed Pencil, TNPosts: 7,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I really only understand VA gun laws because that is where I was in "the business". NY and NYC gun laws are so confusing I thought it best to post a good source of information.

    http://www.nyfirearms.com/blog/nys-gun-laws/

  • SleevePlzSleevePlz Goodrich, MIPosts: 6,249 ✭✭✭✭
    For those that justify not registering despite the law requiring them to do so, I have to ask. Is your fear of confiscation big enough to overcome the risk of fines, prison, loss of job, etc? I find it amazing that the answer could be yes. I realize the government confiscated guns from Japanese - Americans after Pearl Harbor, but do you actually view it as a credible threat worthy of that much risk? I just don't envision anyone going door to door collecting our guns.
    LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
  • jd50aejd50ae West Gnawed Pencil, TNPosts: 7,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    New Boots:
    Not in the market anymore! Wife got me a Walther PPQ 40 for our anniversary


    Very nice...

  • jd50aejd50ae West Gnawed Pencil, TNPosts: 7,934 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Gaetano7890:
    In NYC it is very hard to get a registered handgun. Very few pistol permits are given out and have to be personally signed by the police commissioner. Funny thing is most of the people with pistol permits are also anti gun lobbyist, but are multi millionaires and claim they need to carry a handgun cause they carry large sums of cash around. A Rockefeller is one in particular that I know of. So this would be why someone would have a unregistered handgun in NYC. There are probably at least 2 unregistered handguns for every person in the city. Most handguns in NYC are purchased in VA and other cities with less strict laws and brought in and sold.


    YEP...The people who are against the private ownership of firearms are usually the biggest hypocrites.

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