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Is America a Democracy?

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  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    stephen_hannibal:
    clearlysuspect:
    stephen_hannibal:
    clearlysuspect:
    PuroFreak:
    clearlysuspect:
    Yes. The key here is to ensure that "Capitalistic" is placed infront of Republic. In the end, we're a Capitalistic Republic. And our priorities come in that order also. Money first, then the law.

    That's why I really could care less who is in the White House and who isn't. The downfall of our nation has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Greed. And this isn't just pointed at the top, the elite either. This is even pointed at the average man and woman these days. It used to be that people wanted the simple things in life: a plot of land, a stable job, a family, and place to live out our days. Today, everyone is trying to be the next millionaire, or billionaire. It isn't enough to have what we need, we have to keep up with the Jones, we have to have the newest and the best. Because of our greed, capitalism must thrive. Because of our capitalism, our republic must fail.
    My only reply to that is, what is wrong with always wanting better? What is wrong with trying do the absolute best you possibly can? That's what drives industry, technology, medicine... etc... etc... That's how everything advances.
    In many ways it is the industry, technology, medicine... etc... etc... that have disassociated us with what is truly important, happiness. And it is simply a matter of opinion that to strive for advances in industry and technology IS doing the best we can, that somehow this is better. There are several small villages around the world that lack all of the technological advancements that we possess, but possess all the happiness that we lack.

    I'll say it's not the things themselves, remember the only constant thus far in the equation are people. Marketing can work some terrible miracles... "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it..." - Hitler
    I apologize. I assumed we had already come to this conclusion and were moving forward from it. I believe that at this point we are discussing the affects of man on himself and his environment and the degree of his responsibility for the institutional, industrial, and social machines he and his fellow humans have placed into motion. It is always man who is behind the curtain, but at this point it is the thing (or things) that has been set into motion and the thing whose value must, at this point, be calculated.

    Suspect, I agree wholeheartedly, but I believe a focus must be placed on the problem and not just the symptoms. What we need is not absolution but rather a restorative nature.... Also well written, do you blog?
    If we agree that it is the capitalism and not the method of government, the greed and not the politic, that this is the root of the problem and not the symptom of the problem, then how do you recommend we best illuminate, bring focus, and find resolution to the problem without infringing on the constitution, the bill of rights, and our unalienable god-given rights? I think we began to touch on it earlier, but no one actually said it. The person must be placed before the business.

    And no. This is the closest I come to blogging. Most of the guys on here will tell you, this is the most I've spoke on just about any topic.
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    Sir I don't believe it's just capitalism, but the nature of mans hearts that has changed. And perhaps I'm getting hung up on terms rather than meaning.
    But capitalism by definition is "an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, esp. as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth."
    Whereas greed is "An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth."
    With that said, going about forming lines of resolution is in fact as you stated "The person must come before the business." But if I may take it a step further in hopes to clarify. I believe it was Charles Colson who said those who cannot restrain their baser instincts are not worthy of self government.
    Now this may seem to be a harsh statement but I take it to mean those who cannot act with civility and responsibility towards their fellow man are not worthy of the freedoms of those that are....
  • PuroFreakPuroFreak Posts: 4,131 ✭✭
    gmill880:
    PuroFreak:
    clearlysuspect:
    Yes. The key here is to ensure that "Capitalistic" is placed infront of Republic. In the end, we're a Capitalistic Republic. And our priorities come in that order also. Money first, then the law.

    That's why I really could care less who is in the White House and who isn't. The downfall of our nation has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Greed. And this isn't just pointed at the top, the elite either. This is even pointed at the average man and woman these days. It used to be that people wanted the simple things in life: a plot of land, a stable job, a family, and place to live out our days. Today, everyone is trying to be the next millionaire, or billionaire. It isn't enough to have what we need, we have to keep up with the Jones, we have to have the newest and the best. Because of our greed, capitalism must thrive. Because of our capitalism, our republic must fail.
    My only reply to that is, what is wrong with always wanting better? What is wrong with trying do the absolute best you possibly can? That's what drives industry, technology, medicine... etc... etc... That's how everything advances.

    I think you may have mis-understood what I was saying Puro ...nothing at all wrong with wanting more , hell I would like to have a lot more toys than I do. My point was when you want more and actually go after it by any means necessary including not taking care of your personal responsibilities like paying your bills on time , neglecting taking care of your family or just plain old dis honesty then I have a big problem with that . The desire to do better and advance is what made this country a powerhouse and the desire to have it all now with no consequences attached and expecting the government to bail your *** out of your mistakes is what I disagree with ...I want everyone to have their dream but I'll be a SOB if I or you should have to pay for it for them !!! As far as I'm concerned you are entitled to exactly whatever you have the ability to gain by an honest days work and no more or no less !!! I think we agree Puro, Its just I'm probably not doing a good job of articulating my position considering I've had 1/2 bottle homemade grape wine and am now on my 2nd Fat Tire beer !!!
    Oh I got what ya meant G-Man, that's why I didn't quote you in my reply. I agree with you 110%! It's kind of like what I saw growing up working in the grocery store that turned me into such a hard core conservative. I would see families come in and get all their food with Food stamps, then put up all their alcohol mixes, junk food, and cigarettes and pay for it all with $100 bills. Then when I would bag their groceries and carry them out, they would lead me straight to a brand new $30,000 car or pick up. These people made more money than I do and still had the government paying for everything... That pisses me straight the f*ck off! I am with ya Geno!
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    I think the "mass populace" may suffer from a slight case of megalomania.
  • KriegKrieg Posts: 5,188 ✭✭✭
    clearlysuspect:
    Yes. The key here is to ensure that "Capitalistic" is placed infront of Republic. In the end, we're a Capitalistic Republic. And our priorities come in that order also. Money first, then the law.

    That's why I really could care less who is in the White House and who isn't. The downfall of our nation has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Greed. And this isn't just pointed at the top, the elite either. This is even pointed at the average man and woman these days. It used to be that people wanted the simple things in life: a plot of land, a stable job, a family, and place to live out our days. Today, everyone is trying to be the next millionaire, or billionaire. It isn't enough to have what we need, we have to keep up with the Jones, we have to have the newest and the best. Because of our greed, capitalism must thrive. Because of our capitalism, our republic must fail.
    Ok, this post is probably the most backassward post I have read in awhile. So in order to be wealthy, our Republic must fall? Do you also believe that the "rich" should hand over more of thier money to the "less fortunate"? Which leads me into my next point, how do you think rich people got rich? Liberals use the phrase "less fortunate", which implies that if you're not rich, you're just fortunate, Lucky so to speak and you didn't work your ass off to get where you are today. So what's really wrong here? Are you jealous of people who get off thier **** and want more out of life? I am just trying to figure our your thought process here, so I guess what you're trying to say is from each according to his ability, to each according to his need, right?

    "Long ashes my friends."

  • clearlysuspectclearlysuspect Posts: 2,124 ✭✭✭✭
    Krieg:
    clearlysuspect:
    Yes. The key here is to ensure that "Capitalistic" is placed infront of Republic. In the end, we're a Capitalistic Republic. And our priorities come in that order also. Money first, then the law.

    That's why I really could care less who is in the White House and who isn't. The downfall of our nation has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Greed. And this isn't just pointed at the top, the elite either. This is even pointed at the average man and woman these days. It used to be that people wanted the simple things in life: a plot of land, a stable job, a family, and place to live out our days. Today, everyone is trying to be the next millionaire, or billionaire. It isn't enough to have what we need, we have to keep up with the Jones, we have to have the newest and the best. Because of our greed, capitalism must thrive. Because of our capitalism, our republic must fail.
    Ok, this post is probably the most backassward post I have read in awhile. So in order to be wealthy, our Republic must fall? Do you also believe that the "rich" should hand over more of thier money to the "less fortunate"? Which leads me into my next point, how do you think rich people got rich? Liberals use the phrase "less fortunate", which implies that if you're not rich, you're just fortunate, Lucky so to speak and you didn't work your ass off to get where you are today. So what's really wrong here? Are you jealous of people who get off thier **** and want more out of life? I am just trying to figure our your thought process here, so I guess what you're trying to say is from each according to his ability, to each according to his need, right?
    Krieg, where in the hell did you get that from?

    First, I'm an Aircraft Mechanic and I've worked my ass off to get where I am today, I don't know the meaning of a "sick day," and I understand that most individuals live paycheck to paycheck by choice and not by neccessity. The latter is something my wife had to teach me when we first started dating.

    Second, who said anything about people being "less fortunate" or "wealthy" or "rich" or "Marxism" or even noted to the exchange of money from anyone to anyone else? You have either misread, don't know how to read, or are clearly dillusional. The point that I have been trying to stress is that wealth and poverty are not always translated into money and possessions. A man who would do anything to obtain wealth will never be wealthy. Our nation has forgotten this simple concept and because of it we have become morally, spiritually, and socially bankrupt.

    It appears to me that you're not "just trying to figure our your thought process here" as you claim and you have unjustly accused me of being a communist from your first sentence, implying several comments that were not said by me.
  • stephen_hannibalstephen_hannibal Posts: 4,317
    clearlysuspect:
    Krieg:
    clearlysuspect:
    Yes. The key here is to ensure that "Capitalistic" is placed infront of Republic. In the end, we're a Capitalistic Republic. And our priorities come in that order also. Money first, then the law.

    That's why I really could care less who is in the White House and who isn't. The downfall of our nation has nothing to do with politics. It has everything to do with Greed. And this isn't just pointed at the top, the elite either. This is even pointed at the average man and woman these days. It used to be that people wanted the simple things in life: a plot of land, a stable job, a family, and place to live out our days. Today, everyone is trying to be the next millionaire, or billionaire. It isn't enough to have what we need, we have to keep up with the Jones, we have to have the newest and the best. Because of our greed, capitalism must thrive. Because of our capitalism, our republic must fail.
    Ok, this post is probably the most backassward post I have read in awhile. So in order to be wealthy, our Republic must fall? Do you also believe that the "rich" should hand over more of thier money to the "less fortunate"? Which leads me into my next point, how do you think rich people got rich? Liberals use the phrase "less fortunate", which implies that if you're not rich, you're just fortunate, Lucky so to speak and you didn't work your ass off to get where you are today. So what's really wrong here? Are you jealous of people who get off thier **** and want more out of life? I am just trying to figure our your thought process here, so I guess what you're trying to say is from each according to his ability, to each according to his need, right?
    Krieg, where in the hell did you get that from?

    First, I'm an Aircraft Mechanic and I've worked my ass off to get where I am today, I don't know the meaning of a "sick day," and I understand that most individuals live paycheck to paycheck by choice and not by neccessity. The latter is something my wife had to teach me when we first started dating.

    Second, who said anything about people being "less fortunate" or "wealthy" or "rich" or "Marxism" or even noted to the exchange of money from anyone to anyone else? You have either misread, don't know how to read, or are clearly dillusional. The point that I have been trying to stress is that wealth and poverty are not always translated into money and possessions. A man who would do anything to obtain wealth will never be wealthy. Our nation has forgotten this simple concept and because of it we have become morally, spiritually, and socially bankrupt.

    It appears to me that you're not "just trying to figure our your thought process here" as you claim and you have unjustly accused me of being a communist from your first sentence, implying several comments that were not said by me.

    Random chime in but i like the feel of this one. It's so true about this nations being
    clearlysuspect:
    ...morally, spiritually, and socially bankrupt....
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