Specific freezing question.
This may evolve into a full blown discussion on freezing in general (as usually happens) but, anyhoo, here goes......... I freeze almost all my new cigars. Most of the cigars I have received in TPBs I have not frozen but have kept separated in desktop humis. My specific ponderation today is this - If someone has sent you a cigar that has a bit of age on it already, would freezing the cigar now have any negative effects to any greater degree than for a new stick? Would you be causing any significant setback to the aging process?
0
Comments
the same could be said about 2 years. once i get below that im not so sure.
when i have more time ill try and look it up again.
just wish i could remember how long the eggs can last without hatching.
at 18*C (64*F) all eggs are longer viable at 6 weeks.
LINK
MOW badge received.
none that i have ever heard of if done correctly.
LINK
you can believe what you want, but that published scientific paper has some very compelling evidence.
if you have any scientific evidence to refute, or another study that i missed, please share. I am only human and I am by no means an Entomologist, so i would be more than willing to read and learn more. this stuff is interesting as hell to me.
the reality is that beetles can happen to anyone, up to and including the most careful of us. many of us have a very large collection and its very easy to let something slip and accidentally bring them in to the humidor. its a fact of life.
also, not all tobacco beetles are coming from the cigars themselves. there may be other sources for an infestation. According to wikipedia the beetles can, and do, survive eating things like: "oilcake, oilseeds, cereals, dried fruit, sage, flour, and some animal products"
talk about scary stuff knowing that even if i freeze every cigar that comes into my home i may still have a chance of having an out break based off of other things i bring into my house.
almost as scary as Ebola.
im just pointing out a scientific study that is on topic and shows some very solid evidence of the length of time the eggs can stay viable in relation to the temperature.
i also stated that i am willing to listen to any other scientific studies or repeatable experiments that can be found given my general lack of experience in Entomology.
that is all.
no more no less.
please do it. because i am not a scientist. i am just going off the best information available.
and saying "there is no debate" has never been proof of anything. ever.
i actually encourage debate in this situation. i would love to see a different study or a more accurate one, or a discussion on why this one is not accurate or how it if flawed.
that debate will make my cigars safer. pleas bring all scientific information that can be found. i want my cigars to be as safe as they can be.
"In statistics, an outlier is an observation point that is distant from other observations.[1] An outlier may be due to variability in the measurement or it may indicate experimental error; the latter are sometimes excluded from the data set."
according to what an outlier actually is the entire study would have to be one for this to be a valid argument.
100% of the eggs were no longer viable below 64F after 6 weeks.
... not all but one set of eggs.
where is the outlier? all of the data is within expected ranges on a consistent basis.
i am saying that there is a chance that your cigars got infected from a source you are unaware of.
im just looking for answers here.
where was your other source?
can you link me to that study?
how you "feel" about your experience in an uncontrolled (outside of a laboratory) situation has no basis in science. how many test samples did you take? what was your control? how pressie was your thermometer? hygrometer? how many days long what your study? what was the methodology of ensuring no accidental contamination ?
again, i invite you to point out the flaw in the study i linked. i would love to hear a scientific argument or a study using scientific methods that can refute my link. it will only help everyone reading this.
EDIT:
PS...
if there are any people that are familiar with Entomology, or even biology, enough to point out how that study is flawed i would love to learn from that. as i have said a few times in this thread im not an Entomologist so this is a bit out of my league.
I'm done here. Yes people you can get beetles in old cigars and even cigars that have been frozen.
please do explain it to me like i have asked you to many times.
what am i missing from your argument ? please, explain it to me.
im just confused on how im misunderstanding this segment (Bottom of page 3 right next to Table two in THIS article): "At 20*C, Most eggs hatched normally within 4 wk, but all eggs died within 6 wk at temperatures less than 18*C. This agrees well with those of Howe (1957), but not with those of Fletcher and long (1976). The latter reported that ca. 1% at 15.6°C and ca. 60% at 18.3°C hatched, respectively, in 2330 d and in 1725 d. This discrepancy may re- sult from those studies different experimental pro- cedures, the accuracy of temperature control and measurement, and the insect strains used."
thats fairly strait forward right there. 100% in temps less than 18*C for 6 weeks, according to this study.