What in the hell?

CharlieHeis

So the French are attacking ISIS head on with intel that the US provided? Why didn't we do anything with that info? We are now the long standing joke that the French once were. Pathetic.
http://news.yahoo.com/french-warplanes-strike-islamic-state-syria-bastion-210626902.html

jlmarta

You expected better from the current administration??

CharlieHeis

Actually it doesn't surprise me a bit. Will there be any outrage from supporters of the current administration when there's an attack on U.S. soil, though? I doubt it. Too busy worrying about how much free stuff they'll get by voting in the next clowns.

jlmarta

In answer to your question I'd have to say not 'no' but 'hell no'. 

webmost

Racists.

jlmarta

BWAHAHAHAHA...!!

webmost

CharlieHeis said:

Actually it doesn't surprise me a bit. Will there be any outrage from supporters of the current administration when there's an attack on U.S. soil, though? I doubt it. Too busy worrying about how much free stuff they'll get by voting in the next clowns.

My kid sister, a rabid Obamaphile, posted a convoluted argument on Facebook yesterday, asserting that the attacks in Paris are George Bush's fault.

Scores of likes


.

Fools and tools rule.

jlmarta

webmost said:

CharlieHeis said:

Actually it doesn't surprise me a bit. Will there be any outrage from supporters of the current administration when there's an attack on U.S. soil, though? I doubt it. Too busy worrying about how much free stuff they'll get by voting in the next clowns.

My kid sister, a rabid Obamaphile, posted a convoluted argument on Facebook yesterday, asserting that the attacks in Paris are George Bush's fault.

Scores of likes


.

Fools and tools rule.

You have my sympathy, @webmost ..... 

pelirrojo

You mean your current administration that has been actively bombing the region for over a year now attempting to target ISIS, but instead killing 459 non combatants, of which over 100 were children, in only 52 air strikes? Over 5700 air strikes as of August and you claim we aren't doing anything? 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/03/us-led-air-strikes-on-isis-targets-killed-more-than-450-civilians-report 

Why is there no outrage in our country over the innocent people we kill? Are we not as guilty of indiscriminate killing as those we call enemies? Are you proud that your tax dollars support these efforts? 

Let's not sit back and pretend we are doing nothing and continue to blame the President as usual(really that shtick is getting old). Let's also not sit back and pretend what we are doing is correct and without consequence. 

Why is our country spending inordinate amounts of money on unsuccessful campaigns that only cause death and destruction and solve nothing? Violence only leads to more violence. 

You should be mad at your President. I am too, but clearly for different reasons. We cannot as a nation allow our collective outrage to cloud our vision of what the "right" things to do is.

"Ignorant zeal is worthless; haste makes waste."

Usaf06

pelirrojo said:

You mean your current administration that has been actively bombing the region for over a year now attempting to target ISIS, but instead killing 459 non combatants, of which over 100 were children, in only 52 air strikes? Over 5700 air strikes as of August and you claim we aren't doing anything? 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/03/us-led-air-strikes-on-isis-targets-killed-more-than-450-civilians-report 

Why is there no outrage in our country over the innocent people we kill? Are we not as guilty of indiscriminate killing as those we call enemies? Are you proud that your tax dollars support these efforts? 

Let's not sit back and pretend we are doing nothing and continue to blame the President as usual(really that shtick is getting old). Let's also not sit back and pretend what we are doing is correct and without consequence. 

Why is our country spending inordinate amounts of money on unsuccessful campaigns that only cause death and destruction and solve nothing? Violence only leads to more violence. 

You should be mad at your President. I am too, but clearly for different reasons. We cannot as a nation allow our collective outrage to cloud our vision of what the "right" things to do is.

"Ignorant zeal is worthless; haste makes waste."

459 is not a high number. These wars were/are being fought with more care than ever before. In war people die, that's what happens. Do I think the way this one is being waged correctly? No. We should have never pulled out of Afganistan when we did. Obama is clown though and is always playing to his voters. Hence the immigration stance he is taking. Hence the way he enforces federal laws. Hence his refusal to call Islamic terrorism what it is. Hence his refusal to comment on the killing of police officers and black on black crime. He is a tool.

pelirrojo

459 known from information released on 52 air strikes out of the 5700 we were involved in through early August. Who knows what the total number is. Vastly higher I would imagine. Note these are non-combatants.

459 is not a high number. Do tell, what is a high number? We flip our collective **** over 120+ in Paris? Eh, screw it. That's not very many people. No big deal. 

Playing to his voters? Isn't that what he was elected for? I sure as hell vote for the person who will do the things I want them to. 

Note also, none of your reasons for the President being a "tool" were being discussed in this thread. 

webmost

pelirrojo

Again, the shtick is getting old, but it appears that's all the right has any more. Congratulations, you should be proud. You have added absolutely nothing of substance to this discussion. 

Republicans have majority in both the House and Senate, but you know, everything in this country is the President's fault. 

Really, try to have a discussion without the vitriol and adolescent finger pointing and name calling. It really isn't that difficult. 

I welcome any thoughtful discussion you are willing to have. 

Usaf06

You know well that everything the president disagrees with he vetos. I told myself when I started here I wouldn't get involved in politics and religion on here because it's 2 subjects that people can't have a discussion about without hurt feelings. I already broke that but I will now bow out of this conversation. Carry on folks.

Amos_Umwhat

The list of blame-shame is loo-oong indeed.  Every western & soviet leader that has spent the last 50 years arming these fanatics gets their share.

What's not working?

The blame game, among other things.

What else?
I don't think the mass migration of refugees into the west is working, especially if these people want to bring their customs with them.  If they want to immigrate, they need to assimilate.

All the airstrikes are of no use if no one is holding the ground.  It's just more fuel on the fire.  More reasons to blame us for the problems they created for themselves.

What might work?

I don't know.  A major cultural shift on their part would work.  Unfortunately, ISIS is the major cultural shift that is taking place. 

We need a cultural shift of our own.  We need to stop thinking that these problems will go away if we replace the kind of leaders that middle-easterners understand and respond to with the kind of leaders we expect here in the civilized world.  Those folks don't respond to civil efforts.  That's their fault, not Bush's or Obama's or Reagan's or Clinton's, or Putin's, although he probably understands them better than we do.

Usaf06

Unfortunately the culture of these fanatics will not stop. It's is funded by almost every wealthy prince in the region. Hell, wahabism which is the root of this form of Islam started in our "closest" ally in the region, Saudi Arabia. It's a war being fought for control of the regions black gold. Always has and always will. 

Amos_Umwhat

agreed.

brianetz1

If you really want to understand ISIS here is a great article from The Atlantic that gives a clear view of the background behind ISIS, what it is they want, and how they are going about achieving it.

I tend to consider myself pretty knowledgeable and realistic about the middle east and all the players, and  It was a really eye opening article that completely changed how i think we should handle them.  

very interesting:

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/?utm_source=SFFB

pelirrojo

Hooray, it's Amos! 

I agree with most of your points.


Northern African and Middle Eastern immigrants have been met with xenophobia in parts of Europe for years now; specifically France and UK, both of which have been attacked by jihadists in recent years. I doubt our xenophobia will be met with a different response. 

10000 refugees is a drop in the bucket compared to our total population(322 mil+). We already have one (net) international immigrant coming to the US every 14 seconds. 10000 is only a little over a day and a half worth. Yes they should be thoroughly vetted before being allowed to enter the country. These governors refusing refugees in their states are imbeciles and fear-mongers and don't have the manpower or money to keep people from crossing their state lines. 

Assimilate to what? How do you define "American"? Should we too attempt to assimilate to the American ideal? I bet you could find about as much in common between someone from downtown L.A. and someone from the deep woods of Maine as you could between a Syrian refugee and a cattle rancher from west Texas. My point being there is no one idea of what it is to be an American and that's a good thing.

pelirrojo

I thought this was an interesting opinion piece. Worth a read for all. 
http://gawker.com/now-our-demons-come-out-1742760572

pelirrojo

Usaf06 said:

You know well that everything the president disagrees with he vetos. I told myself when I started here I wouldn't get involved in politics and religion on here because it's 2 subjects that people can't have a discussion about without hurt feelings. I already broke that but I will now bow out of this conversation. Carry on folks.

Also, Obama has had 5 total vetos thus far. Fewest of any President since Garfield. What a power hungry dictator!

Usaf06

Republicans have only controlled both sides for a year. He wouldn't have vetoed anything the first 4 years and getting both sides to agree on a bill the next two is comical to even send to him. When Bush left office he had a democratic controlled congress and senate. Did everyone blame them? No, Bush was to blame and still is by Obama. 

pelirrojo

3 of 5 vetos took place prior to last November's elections. One in 2009 and one in 2010.  The other vetos were Union election related and Keystone XL. Any democrat would likely have vetoed these bills. 

I didn't mention Bush, but since you did, in comparison all 12 of his vetos came in the last 2.5 years of his second term.

Usaf06

Which was when democrats controlled congress

Nolagizmo

That's when I light up!
Fellas feel the botl luv. Let's stress over what we can control and cuss what we cant. I'm grabbing a glass of bourbon, praying for our troups, and firing up a Espinosa courtesy of Shizzmeister 

Usaf06

C-LOVE

I'm really offended by some of this rhetoric, I need a safe space.

pelirrojo

I still maintain my faith than humanity is inherently good and that good will prevail over evil. I'll just leave this here. 
https://youtu.be/eH6mKLqe4Yc

Nolagizmo

CharlieHeis

Holy Notifications, Batman. 

As Nick said, I don't usually get involved in politics here on the forum. Now I know why.

Several governors have now rejected refugees in their states, saying their number one concern is the safety of the residents of their states. Why is this so hard to understand? There is no effective way to vet these people. Whoever insists on this should open up their home. We can start with the White House. 
There are far too many homeless citizens here already, including veterans. We should focus on that problem first, before bringing in tens of thousands of people with no way to check their backgrounds.

peter4jc

But Charlie...  they can just make a call to the Afghan or Syrian embassy and ask if the immigrant is an upstanding citizen.  <sarcasm>

Since there is no decent way to vet them, I say leave them where they are.  And I agree, that as long as there are homeless veterans, take care of them.

But then, all the White House has to do is send the 10,000 Syrians a ticket to Mexico, and they can make it into the US through the sieve-like border.

I also don't buy the left's argument criticizing those against the idea by saying, "Hey, your parents were let in, so you're being two-faced."  Those were different times.