This is one of the better discussions I've seen in a while. Like that we are able to talk about topics like this and we are still being respectful to one another
Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt
It amazes me that senior citizens in this nation are treated the same as those on welfare. Yet in other countries, they are trying to lower the retirement ages, while the good ol' US of A is trying to raise it to 70. W...T.......F?
Oh wait, people are living longer, they say. Well, maybe so, but people who work jobs, like loggers, commercial fishermen, mechanics, construction workers and most any other manual labor are not going to be able to do their jobs much past 60. And those companies will be looking to move them or get rid of them.
And these stupid little whelps who think that it should be all for them and screw the senior citizens, cause social security is welfare (they evidently don't know it is paid for by the people), will eventually be old and screwed even worse. So the joke is on them. LOL!
Can't wait for the new taxes to set in. I paid over $19K in taxes last year. This year is supposed to be another +3%? Should be awesome. Uhg!
Retirement age is what you want it to be. My retirement age is 50. I can retire in 10 years. SS was not set up as a retirement fund. It was set up to assist you when you retire. We all make our own decisions in life and part of those decisions better be how you are preparing for retirement. If you havent prepared for it then plan on being miserable till you die. Thats the facts.
That's Bullshit... I HAD to retire at 62 because I could no longer do my job due to Rheumatoid, Osteo, & psoriatic arthritus. I've been trying to get permanent disability but once again the Government makes you jump through all their hoops. I've had to retain an attorney and this is going on for 3 years now. So spare me your statement about the decisions we make.
Hey, Doug, is there any possible connection, regardless of how remote, to your having these arthritis issues due to any military service? Maybe VA disability could be an option....
I think one of the things that divides us on this forum (and across the county) is whether or not we believe we have agency. We define agency as the ability to act with a reasonable assurance that our activity will have the desired effect because we control all or most of our environment.
People who believe in agency tend to think that if we work hard enough we can achieve anything (this is the American Dream, right?) and tend to view their neighbors who have less then them as lazy, unmotivated, or at the very least people that haven't worked as hard as them or made poor life choices. Likewise they strive to be more like their neighbors who seem to have more (aka "keeping up with the Jones.")
The other group tends to see other environmental factors that diminish a person's agency. For example, women still make less then men, on average, across the board. This is an environmental factor that has a limiting impact on many (but not all) women's' agency. Likewise with racism and generational poverty.
Politically I am a socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I think if you have the ability to work you should be working and not getting government handouts paid for by people who work for a living. But I also think that the measure of our county--what should make us better than any other country--is our ability to help those that need it. As I said previously, I feel fortunate that only 20% of my wife's and my combined salary has to go towards housing. I'm in this place, I believe because I worked my ass off and made strategic sacrifices to get where I am. But I also have many friends that I know work as hard if not harder than me and are barely scraping by -- and a couple of friends that simply cannot find affordable places to live. I look at their lives and wonder where the American Dream went wrong for them and that makes me sad because I do believe that if you're willing to work hard you should be able to have a high quality of life and I know that that's just not true for a lot of people.
-- "There's something that doesn't make sense. Let's go poke it with a stick."
It amazes me that senior citizens in this nation are treated the same as those on welfare. Yet in other countries, they are trying to lower the retirement ages, while the good ol' US of A is trying to raise it to 70. W...T.......F?
Oh wait, people are living longer, they say. Well, maybe so, but people who work jobs, like loggers, commercial fishermen, mechanics, construction workers and most any other manual labor are not going to be able to do their jobs much past 60. And those companies will be looking to move them or get rid of them.
And these stupid little whelps who think that it should be all for them and screw the senior citizens, cause social security is welfare (they evidently don't know it is paid for by the people), will eventually be old and screwed even worse. So the joke is on them. LOL!
Can't wait for the new taxes to set in. I paid over $19K in taxes last year. This year is supposed to be another +3%? Should be awesome. Uhg!
Retirement age is what you want it to be. My retirement age is 50. I can retire in 10 years. SS was not set up as a retirement fund. It was set up to assist you when you retire. We all make our own decisions in life and part of those decisions better be how you are preparing for retirement. If you havent prepared for it then plan on being miserable till you die. Thats the facts.
That's Bullshit... I HAD to retire at 62 because I could no longer do my job due to Rheumatoid, Osteo, & psoriatic arthritus. I've been trying to get permanent disability but once again the Government makes you jump through all their hoops. I've had to retain an attorney and this is going on for 3 years now. So spare me your statement about the decisions we make.
Hey, Doug, is there any possible connection, regardless of how remote, to your having these arthritis issues due to any military service? Maybe VA disability could be an option....
Thanks Marty, but I am not a vet so there is no help in that. Plus now dealing with the insurance company to try and get some meds is a PITA. My Rheumatologist prescribed a new med over 2 months ago and I'm still going round with them to get it approved. I now have to walk with a cane and I'm only 65. So much for the Government taking care of those who need it.
You can't dispel Ignorance if you retain Arrogance!
Politically I am a socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I think if you have the ability to work you should be working and not getting government handouts paid for by people who work for a living. But I also think that the measure of our county--what should make us better than any other country--is our ability to help those that need it. As I said previously, I feel fortunate that only 20% of my wife's and my combined salary has to go towards housing. I'm in this place, I believe because I worked my ass off and made strategic sacrifices to get where I am. But I also have many friends that I know work as hard if not harder than me and are barely scraping by -- and a couple of friends that simply cannot find affordable places to live. I look at their lives and wonder where the American Dream went wrong for them and that makes me sad because I do believe that if you're willing to work hard you should be able to have a high quality of life and I know that that's just not true for a lot of people.
Well said Eric.
Which is kind of where my original post was going. There ARE young folks willing to work hard and try to better themselves, but realistically, when the odds are against them to start with, usually of no fault of theirs, then what?
Whether it be because of where they live, what skills they are capable of (some people just aren't good at a lot of things) or because they can't find jobs that they can do, the deck can be stacked against them.
When I was younger, there were tons of youth training programs and job training tax credits for companies willing to hire young people who needed training. Those programs have all been cut.
Or displaced workers. People who have spent years in an industry that is going away. Often too old to be considered for some of the newer tech jobs, but still need to make ends meet. There used to be programs that offered companies tax credits to hire these people. All gone now. Combine that with housing that no one can afford starting out, including apartments, then they are stuck.
I moved out at 17 and could afford to live. People in their 30s are having a hard time now, with 2 incomes. They work hard and make little money. Is that their fault? I don't think so.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
In regards to the OP, we have been paying the mortgage for several years now. While in the Army I never owned only rented or lived in Military housing. Less than two years before I retired from the Military my ex decided we should divorce. She ended up leaving me with over 20K in debt and took 35% of my retirement check. I was 37 years old, deep in high interest dept with no job. I was a Officer for the state of New Mexico for two years. Also met my current wife who also was done wrong by an ex. Fast forward to today and my wife is eligible for retirement and I will meet the minimum requirement in a few more years. She has over 35 years Civil service and i a combined Military and Civilian time of 38 years. Together we paid all debt except mortgage and a small car payment. We have both put 10-15% of pay into a Thrift Savings Plan. My ex will continue to receive that 35% until one of us dies. We have been divorced for over 20 years and was only married for 11, but that is federal law. It will put a damper on our retirement, but we have a plan. Those that are still young enough, start your plan now if you havent. Those of us that had monkey wrenches thrown into our plans, do what you can to fix it or work around it. Nobody owes anybody anything
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
It amazes me that senior citizens in this nation are treated the same as those on welfare. Yet in other countries, they are trying to lower the retirement ages, while the good ol' US of A is trying to raise it to 70. W...T.......F?
Oh wait, people are living longer, they say. Well, maybe so, but people who work jobs, like loggers, commercial fishermen, mechanics, construction workers and most any other manual labor are not going to be able to do their jobs much past 60. And those companies will be looking to move them or get rid of them.
And these stupid little whelps who think that it should be all for them and screw the senior citizens, cause social security is welfare (they evidently don't know it is paid for by the people), will eventually be old and screwed even worse. So the joke is on them. LOL!
Can't wait for the new taxes to set in. I paid over $19K in taxes last year. This year is supposed to be another +3%? Should be awesome. Uhg!
Retirement age is what you want it to be. My retirement age is 50. I can retire in 10 years. SS was not set up as a retirement fund. It was set up to assist you when you retire. We all make our own decisions in life and part of those decisions better be how you are preparing for retirement. If you havent prepared for it then plan on being miserable till you die. Thats the facts.
That's Bullshit... I HAD to retire at 62 because I could no longer do my job due to Rheumatoid, Osteo, & psoriatic arthritus. I've been trying to get permanent disability but once again the Government makes you jump through all their hoops. I've had to retain an attorney and this is going on for 3 years now. So spare me your statement about the decisions we make.
You had to retire at 62 because you did not finacially prepare yourself to retire at 50. Thats your decision. I will be able to retire at 50 (probably wont) but thats my decision. Ill spare you nothing but the truth.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Back in, I think the early to mid 70's, there was a popular book called "What Color is Your Parachute?" that was meant to get people thinking about retirement at an age of their choosing. I think it probably worked, for some people.
Since the 70's, we've seen Corporate America "re-structure" itself many times. Usually, everyone but the very top of the pyramid gets royally screwed, while those at the top open their golden parachutes and glide effortlessly over to the top of the next pyramid. This happens over and over again.
An example, during my over 20 year tenure at one institution the place changed hands 4 times. Each time, the corporate raiders robbed the workers. The current governor of Florida took about $9,000.00 from me, personally, may he burn in hell for all eternity. @Usaf06 , please explain truthfully how this is my fault? Because that's the stand you're taking here.
As for disability, this is indeed a great mystery. I've seen a 28 year old jailbird on full disability, because, get this, "It makes me nervous when people tell me what to do." My patient in the next room had Lou Gehrig's disease, was still trying to work as a carpenter, and could not get any help from Social Security whatsoever! Again, please explain how this is his fault?
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Ok, so those people who didn't become military, police, fire or get into 6 figure jobs that would allow them to retire at 50, all made poor decisions. I get that.
But...... Those people who chose to take care of their family and not go to college, made a poor decision. Those people who grew up poor and chose to take menial labor jobs to support their families made poor decisions. Those people who worked their way up in a company or place and took until their 30s to get a job with retirement made poor decisions. Those people who put away every spare dollar in their retirement and the company folded and took years to recover a percentage of their retirement, made poor decisions. Those people who were injured on their jobs or in service and are on social security made poor decisions.
Not everyone is born into money or born in a place where the opportunities are there. I know, they can move. Well, having lived in a tent on the side of a mountain when I went somewhere for a job, some folks have a thing about being homeless.
Sorry, but those comments were self righteous and sanctimonious.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Ok, so those people who didn't become military, police, fire or get into 6 figure jobs that would allow them to retire at 50, all made poor decisions. I get that.
But...... Those people who chose to take care of their family and not go to college, made a poor decision. Those people who grew up poor and chose to take menial labor jobs to support their families made poor decisions. Those people who worked their way up in a company or place and took until their 30s to get a job with retirement made poor decisions. Those people who put away every spare dollar in their retirement and the company folded and took years to recover a percentage of their retirement, made poor decisions. Those people who were injured on their jobs or in service and are on social security made poor decisions.
Not everyone is born into money or born in a place where the opportunities are there. I know, they can move. Well, having lived in a tent on the side of a mountain when I went somewhere for a job, some folks have a thing about being homeless.
Sorry, @Usaf06, but those comments were self righteous and sanctimonious.
I think that's what you meant. Or did you mean me?
Funny, I think I fell into every category somewhere in my life.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
First off i wasnt born with ****. I was raised by a single parent. Went to 3 elementary schools, 4 middle schools, and 2 high schools. My mother recieved food stamps back when they were actually a booklet. I was evicted from apartment after apartment. Constantly had my power/ water turnwd off due to no payment. I never had anything as a kid but i never blamed my mother or the government. I didnt even blame my dad. I knew if i didnt want to live like that as an adult i had to make the difference. So i did. I apologize if any of you are offended... so be it. There is plenty of private investment companies that each and everyone here could have contributed. Yes, i have a civil service job that allows me a comfortable retirement. Guess what, that was my choice. If you chose to be a mechanic or computer engineer thats your choice. If you havent prepared for your retirement thats your choice. I dont think i can be any clearer. If your feelings are hurt, i dont give a f$ck.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Well this escalated quickly. I get all sides here, but as was stated there are retirement saving options outside of what a job may provide. I took advantage of this as a 20 year old it is entirely self funded but so, so worth it. It's time for a smoke now.
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give". Winston Churchill. MOW badge received.
@Usaf06 What I am saying is don't be so quick to put your judgement hat on. Things happen and get out of control of the person. An accident, theft of retirement funds, etc. Granted, they chose to work there.
Having an attitude that everyone makes poor choices really has to question your compassion for people. My retirement, isn't an issue. I'm fine where I am, not to mention each year I'm here, I just get that much more comfortable in retirement.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
I prefer people to make the choice of house payments as that is how I make my money.
Team O'Donnell FTW!
"I've got a great cigar collection - it's actually not a collection, because that would imply I wasn't going to smoke ever last one of 'em." - Ron White
@Usaf06 What I am saying is don't be so quick to put your judgement hat on. Things happen and get out of control of the person. An accident, theft of retirement funds, etc. Granted, they chose to work there.
Having an attitude that everyone makes poor choices really has to question your compassion for people. My retirement, isn't an issue. I'm fine where I am, not to mention each year I'm here, I just get that much more comfortable in retirement.
Never judged anyone. Simply stated we live by the choices we make.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I doubt that anyone posting in this thread is painting with a broad brush and saying their position applies to every last person in the country. There will always be some extenuating circumstances in peoples' lives that weren't affected by their decisions.
However, while shiit happens to everyone, and for some there's such a pile of shiit most people can't comprehend, how we react to the tragedies in life has a great deal to do with the outcomes of those tragedies.
And lastly, what's the role of our government? And what's my responsibility? How those questions are answered goes back to what Eric was saying about the two camps of people (thanks for that BTW); those that believe they have agency and will strive to be self-sufficient, and those that think environmentally, that their circumstances caused their issues and the resolution to those issues will come from outside of themselves. I believe the govt. has overstepped its boundaries and is taking care of too many people that could be taking care of themselves, who would be taking care of themselves if they didn't have the helping hand from Uncle Sam. That's another whole debate... But, like Nick said earlier, S.S. was never meant to be the sole provider in our retirement years; all of us bear some responsibility to sock away some dough to supplement S.S., and if you didn't or if you did and it got stolen, then you're going to be broke. Is it the role of govt. to give people money who are broke because their pensions got raided, or any number of reasons? Remember, the govt. doesn't have their own money; they have our money.
Which leads me one last thought; I've been around the world and saw people living in huts with dirt floors... those people were happier than 99% of Americans I know. The citizens here below the poverty line live like kings compared to half of the people in the world, but those other people are happier. Why? Because happiness doesn't come from what you have or how much is in the bank, neither does true security.
@jw517 Im sorry you got your feelings hurt and had to flag my response...lol Actually Im not. Go find a safe space to crawl back into if you cant handle it.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I'm not offended, or angry, or hurt, or anything like that. Just to be clear. I'm kind of surprised and saddened.
I thought Zero's and Peters statements well thought and well put, although I think Peter strayed a little from the center of the conversation, but not too far. I don't think there were any cognizant answers to the questions I asked, but that's probably because there really are none.
The blame, when a corporation makes promises to its workers, then subtly jerks the rug out from under them, seems to fall to - the workers, if I follow the logic above. And I'm not sure anyone was blaming the government, or expecting it to take care of everyone. How would that impact the salaries of those working for the government, after all?
I also noticed several mentions of private retirement accounts which responsible forward thinking people would have used, instead of relying on their employers promises. Can I just say Shearson Lehman & Hutton?
All in all this has left me with a couple of quotes that keep pushing forward from the recesses of my mind, which I'll share because a couple others may be thinking similar things.
"The best laid plans of mice and men do often go awry" -- Robert Burns
and you know that's true, 'cause he had a cigar named after him, right?
"Ah, Robbie, you asked them for bread and they gave you a stone." -- Robert Burns mother, upon seeing the statue erected of him, posthumously.
and finally, "Let those with ears listen." JC
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I also heard @Usaf06 is low, Ok spent under $300 this month
Who is this noob
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Exactly. There are no accidents, everything is in your hands. All you need is clear detailed information of precisely what the future holds. And a cute picture.
Oh, and choose your parents well, so you don't end up with some weird disease or condition that makes you a burden.
That's the ticket. That's all there is to it!
Lazy bums.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
For those of you who have clearly demonstrated a lack of understanding of the concepts of logic, that was sarcasm.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Unfortunately houses in California are crazy expensive. Your right how do young adults get in. Average age around here when people buy a house are in their mid 30's early 40's. With a 30 year mortgage they will have to work till they are 70 before its payed off.
My neighbors across the street moved from California around 7 years ago. After selling their place in California they were able to buy two $400K houses in are neighborhood. They rented/sold the second home to their son and wife who also moved from California. It's just ridiculous how expensive thing are over there.
If you quote me do the @TX98Z28 in your text or I won't be notified of your quote, Thanks.
400k here by me would by you a really top end home. 3000 sqft, 4 bed 2.5 bath and nice finishes
Team O'Donnell FTW!
"I've got a great cigar collection - it's actually not a collection, because that would imply I wasn't going to smoke ever last one of 'em." - Ron White
Comments
People who believe in agency tend to think that if we work hard enough we can achieve anything (this is the American Dream, right?) and tend to view their neighbors who have less then them as lazy, unmotivated, or at the very least people that haven't worked as hard as them or made poor life choices. Likewise they strive to be more like their neighbors who seem to have more (aka "keeping up with the Jones.")
The other group tends to see other environmental factors that diminish a person's agency. For example, women still make less then men, on average, across the board. This is an environmental factor that has a limiting impact on many (but not all) women's' agency. Likewise with racism and generational poverty.
Politically I am a socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I think if you have the ability to work you should be working and not getting government handouts paid for by people who work for a living. But I also think that the measure of our county--what should make us better than any other country--is our ability to help those that need it. As I said previously, I feel fortunate that only 20% of my wife's and my combined salary has to go towards housing. I'm in this place, I believe because I worked my ass off and made strategic sacrifices to get where I am. But I also have many friends that I know work as hard if not harder than me and are barely scraping by -- and a couple of friends that simply cannot find affordable places to live. I look at their lives and wonder where the American Dream went wrong for them and that makes me sad because I do believe that if you're willing to work hard you should be able to have a high quality of life and I know that that's just not true for a lot of people.
Which is kind of where my original post was going.
There ARE young folks willing to work hard and try to better themselves, but realistically, when the odds are against them to start with, usually of no fault of theirs, then what?
Whether it be because of where they live, what skills they are capable of (some people just aren't good at a lot of things) or because they can't find jobs that they can do, the deck can be stacked against them.
When I was younger, there were tons of youth training programs and job training tax credits for companies willing to hire young people who needed training.
Those programs have all been cut.
Or displaced workers. People who have spent years in an industry that is going away. Often too old to be considered for some of the newer tech jobs, but still need to make ends meet.
There used to be programs that offered companies tax credits to hire these people.
All gone now.
Combine that with housing that no one can afford starting out, including apartments, then they are stuck.
I moved out at 17 and could afford to live.
People in their 30s are having a hard time now, with 2 incomes.
They work hard and make little money.
Is that their fault? I don't think so.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
While in the Army I never owned only rented or lived in Military housing. Less than two years before I retired from the Military my ex decided we should divorce. She ended up leaving me with over 20K in debt and took 35% of my retirement check. I was 37 years old, deep in high interest dept with no job. I was a Officer for the state of New Mexico for two years. Also met my current wife who also was done wrong by an ex.
Fast forward to today and my wife is eligible for retirement and I will meet the minimum requirement in a few more years. She has over 35 years Civil service and i a combined Military and Civilian time of 38 years. Together we paid all debt except mortgage and a small car payment. We have both put 10-15% of pay into a Thrift Savings Plan. My ex will continue to receive that 35% until one of us dies. We have been divorced for over 20 years and was only married for 11, but that is federal law.
It will put a damper on our retirement, but we have a plan.
Those that are still young enough, start your plan now if you havent. Those of us that had monkey wrenches thrown into our plans, do what you can to fix it or work around it.
Nobody owes anybody anything
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Since the 70's, we've seen Corporate America "re-structure" itself many times. Usually, everyone but the very top of the pyramid gets royally screwed, while those at the top open their golden parachutes and glide effortlessly over to the top of the next pyramid. This happens over and over again.
An example, during my over 20 year tenure at one institution the place changed hands 4 times. Each time, the corporate raiders robbed the workers. The current governor of Florida took about $9,000.00 from me, personally, may he burn in hell for all eternity. @Usaf06 , please explain truthfully how this is my fault? Because that's the stand you're taking here.
As for disability, this is indeed a great mystery. I've seen a 28 year old jailbird on full disability, because, get this, "It makes me nervous when people tell me what to do." My patient in the next room had Lou Gehrig's disease, was still trying to work as a carpenter, and could not get any help from Social Security whatsoever! Again, please explain how this is his fault?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I get that.
But......
Those people who chose to take care of their family and not go to college, made a poor decision.
Those people who grew up poor and chose to take menial labor jobs to support their families made poor decisions.
Those people who worked their way up in a company or place and took until their 30s to get a job with retirement made poor decisions.
Those people who put away every spare dollar in their retirement and the company folded and took years to recover a percentage of their retirement, made poor decisions.
Those people who were injured on their jobs or in service and are on social security made poor decisions.
Not everyone is born into money or born in a place where the opportunities are there.
I know, they can move.
Well, having lived in a tent on the side of a mountain when I went somewhere for a job, some folks have a thing about being homeless.
Sorry, but those comments were self righteous and sanctimonious.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Funny, I think I fell into every category somewhere in my life.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
MOW badge received.
What I am saying is don't be so quick to put your judgement hat on.
Things happen and get out of control of the person. An accident, theft of retirement funds, etc.
Granted, they chose to work there.
Having an attitude that everyone makes poor choices really has to question your compassion for people.
My retirement, isn't an issue. I'm fine where I am, not to mention each year I'm here, I just get that much more comfortable in retirement.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
"I've got a great cigar collection - it's actually not a collection, because that would imply I wasn't going to smoke ever last one of 'em." - Ron White
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I doubt that anyone posting in this thread is painting with a broad brush and saying their position applies to every last person in the country. There will always be some extenuating circumstances in peoples' lives that weren't affected by their decisions.
However, while shiit happens to everyone, and for some there's such a pile of shiit most people can't comprehend, how we react to the tragedies in life has a great deal to do with the outcomes of those tragedies.
And lastly, what's the role of our government? And what's my responsibility? How those questions are answered goes back to what Eric was saying about the two camps of people (thanks for that BTW); those that believe they have agency and will strive to be self-sufficient, and those that think environmentally, that their circumstances caused their issues and the resolution to those issues will come from outside of themselves. I believe the govt. has overstepped its boundaries and is taking care of too many people that could be taking care of themselves, who would be taking care of themselves if they didn't have the helping hand from Uncle Sam. That's another whole debate... But, like Nick said earlier, S.S. was never meant to be the sole provider in our retirement years; all of us bear some responsibility to sock away some dough to supplement S.S., and if you didn't or if you did and it got stolen, then you're going to be broke. Is it the role of govt. to give people money who are broke because their pensions got raided, or any number of reasons? Remember, the govt. doesn't have their own money; they have our money.
Which leads me one last thought; I've been around the world and saw people living in huts with dirt floors... those people were happier than 99% of Americans I know. The citizens here below the poverty line live like kings compared to half of the people in the world, but those other people are happier. Why? Because happiness doesn't come from what you have or how much is in the bank, neither does true security.
Actually Im not. Go find a safe space to crawl back into if you cant handle it.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I thought Zero's and Peters statements well thought and well put, although I think Peter strayed a little from the center of the conversation, but not too far. I don't think there were any cognizant answers to the questions I asked, but that's probably because there really are none.
The blame, when a corporation makes promises to its workers, then subtly jerks the rug out from under them, seems to fall to - the workers, if I follow the logic above. And I'm not sure anyone was blaming the government, or expecting it to take care of everyone. How would that impact the salaries of those working for the government, after all?
I also noticed several mentions of private retirement accounts which responsible forward thinking people would have used, instead of relying on their employers promises. Can I just say Shearson Lehman & Hutton?
All in all this has left me with a couple of quotes that keep pushing forward from the recesses of my mind, which I'll share because a couple others may be thinking similar things.
"The best laid plans of mice and men do often go awry" -- Robert Burns
and you know that's true, 'cause he had a cigar named after him, right?
"Ah, Robbie, you asked them for bread and they gave you a stone." -- Robert Burns mother, upon seeing the statue erected of him, posthumously.
and finally, "Let those with ears listen." JC
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
There are no accidents, everything is in your hands.
All you need is clear detailed information of precisely what the future holds.
And a cute picture.
Oh, and choose your parents well, so you don't end up with some weird disease or condition that makes you a burden.
That's the ticket. That's all there is to it!
Lazy bums.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"I've got a great cigar collection - it's actually not a collection, because that would imply I wasn't going to smoke ever last one of 'em." - Ron White
If you want to bomb me send it to Tony @0patience
If you are a newbie I got Dem nachos....