El Paso/Ohio Shootings

MorganGeo

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on what can help prevent these type of things from happening?

I don't know what the answer is.  

One thing that is crazy to me is how one individual can posses this much hate that drives them into doing something like this.  Crazy times we live in.

ShawnOL

Mental health is tricky.  Sometimes there are early warning signs, sometimes not.  Since we no longer lock up our crazies, its becoming an even bigger issue these days.  Thank the liberals for this mess.

jd50ae

A real good start would be to vote dems and libs out of office. It was pelosi and waters who called for rudeness and attacks against peaceful rallies and it has grown.

Yes, mental health is a serious problem today and no one wants to report a family member. It is probably the only time I would like to see "social media" use their algorithms to look for and report some posts or threats of violence, instead of hiding conservative or middle of the road points of view.

I differ with the NRA on one point, there should be background checks. But, and it is a big BUT, if you let the libs bring about a background check there will be h.ell to pay because anything they do will be the beginning of confiscation.

Years ago when I was learning gunsmithing I went to my favorite gun/reloading/coffee shop. I heard a name mentioned and I informed the owner the person was suicidal and there was a real threat of violence. The sale was denied.

Of course the indoctrination centers could go back and teach about loyalty and pride. Pledge of Allegiance is a good idea but this hate everything and America is getting ingrained in this country. Personal responsibility and patriotism is a joke

peter4jc

It's more than hate by itself that allows for murder, it needs to be mingled in with something else.  Something like not understanding the sanctity of life or its value.  And that can be a result of decades of people telling themselves abortion is acceptable, or telling themselves for even longer that we are nothing more than some random chemical reaction that started in some primordial soup, which grew fins then tails and fur and then became modern man.  Believe anything that says a human life has no true value, and then add some hate... 

silvermouse

Interesting how everything is the fault of people who have a different religion, political bent, etc. Mighty comfortable world view. "Easy" is the narcotic of our age.

BKDog

The two party political system is becoming increasingly radical on both sides of the fence, and this is a sign of troubling times to come, including major societal changes. Coupled with this gradual societal change, is the unprecedented psychotropic drugging of our people by the big pharmaceutical corporations and their mental expert pill pushers. The JMA (journal of mental health) is constantly being updated, and the list of drugs to be prescribed (the products to sell) has increased exponentially in recent years. Although it is true that some medications indeed save lives and many more keep people calm and happy, the fact remains that a core number of prescribed medications, most notably those doled out by psychiatrists have very nasty side effects and can alter behavior long term. The majority of these very dangerous drugs have the same core chemicals, and it's just the name of the drug or amount of each chemical that ever changes. If these medications are taken for any length of time and if the patient does not continue their regular dose, this can also cause depression, anxiety, and violent tendencies. As far as mental health goes in this country, we're not taking it seriously enough. The pharmaceutical lobby is extremely influential and very powerful. It's BIG business, and the people are just cash cows for these corporations, who prey upon the people. I'm talking about people who really may not have mental conditions and can be treated with a healthy diet and exercise before resorting to handing them a bottle of pills. But we're in a new age where it's just easier to pop a pill and expect to feel better instantly. And our kids, don't even get me started. It's sickening what they're doing. Class action lawsuits aren't even a drop in the bucket for these juggernauts.

If anybody wants to know more about psychotropic drugging and the medical industry (because it really is an industry) just watch some videos on Rockefeller Medicine and psychotropic drugging, available on YouTube and other platforms via the web. It's also important to note how many of these mass shooters have been prescribed mind altering drugs at some point, out of all those who actually are known to have taken them.  

I once had a friend of mine come over here to America, he's from England, and he said he had never seen commercials like the ones we have, with pill pushing adverts always televised telling you to "ask your doctor if this poison is right for you", listing side effects which commonly far outweigh any condition one might have to begin with. It's insanity, he told me. I just replied, "Poor water, fake food, sick people, mandatory health care and endless pills. That's how you conquer a people, not heal them."

silvermouse

and don't forget marijuana. There is an arrogance that resides beneath stoned people's mellow demeanor.

jd50ae

@BKDog
Something not even thought about by most people.
We are our own worst enemies.

Back in the Reagan era the Mental Hospitals were shut down by Reagan, at least in calalafornia. It spread. Reagan did not shut them down because he was being mean spirited, he shut them down because they were empty, and very expensive to keep open. He did not turn anyone out.

It seems a new load of pill pushers and pharmas had convinced people, who should have known better, that they could handle all of the inmates with drugs. So thousands of people who needed to be in hospital care and counseling were turned out in a permanent state of stupor. Drugs are good was the message. There was little follow up, just filling prescriptions. And it spread across the country quickly. People are on the streets who should be institutionalized. So we have nut jobs on social media, and social media uses its algorithms to go after free speech, nothing is being done. People are afraid to turn someone in even thought they are scared s.hit.less of them. You can not walk down most streets in big cities without wondering why is that person on the street.

Of course the inevitable backlash is now people who really honestly need certain meds can't get them. Even though they come across the border, are smuggled mostly to west coast ports and go to the thugs.  And the doctors who run the pill mills are getting rich, and everyone knows they are there. Add the Tide Pod people to the equation and what have you got? Add videogames and violence in the media what have you got?

Add the breakdown of morality and respect, turning a blind eye and hoping it will go away, you get incidents everywhere.

Add the total stupidity of the democratic party and their TDS we are sittin on a time bomb.

jd50ae

https://www.foxnews.com/us/feds-grandmother-thwarts-mass-shooting-by-bringing-grandson-to-hospital

webmost

Anomie has consequences.

CharlieHeis

Is torture an option? Let's discourage the next round of nut jobs looking for their fifteen minutes of fame. Not even joking. Get the CIA's best and do it on a public stage. Every network. Every website. You open any app and you see the most heinous shît you can imagine. You open facebook, snapchat or Instagram, there it is. You can't even shop Amazon for an hour because this is live instead. Of course this doesn't work for the real cowards that kill themselves last. 

ShawnOL

The loss of respect for human life is the underlying problem.  When society actually learns the value of a life, maybe things will change, but nothing will until then.

Amos_Umwhat

ShawnOL said:

  Thank the liberals for this mess.

Um, it's just what I was told by the people at the long term Mental Health facility when I was in school, but, according to those who worked there during those years, 90% of their permanent residents were released during the Reagan years.  In order to lower taxes.  Liberal?  I think the problem is probably bigger than partisan politics.

jd50ae

Amos_Umwhat said:

ShawnOL said:

  Thank the liberals for this mess.

Um, it's just what I was told by the people at the long term Mental Health facility when I was in school, but, according to those who worked there during those years, 90% of their permanent residents were released during the Reagan years.  In order to lower taxes.  Liberal?  I think the problem is probably bigger than partisan politics.

This has been posted elsewhere. Reagan shut them down, not out of malice or taxes, but because they were empty. They were empty because pharma and doctors convinced everyone that drugs were the answer. So a lot of people who needed one on one help were turned out to their own devices while in a stupor.

ShawnOL

Regardless who shut them, or why, my original point about them is that it seems like its time to open them back up.

jd50ae

@ShawnOL

I 100% agree. But who is going to do it? That is the big question.

ShawnOL said:

Regardless who shut them, or why, my original point about them is that it seems like its time to open them back up.

No editing.

VegasFrank

We can't stop gun violence in this country any more than we can bring peace in the middle East. Kids going to school and coming home in body bags people dying in the mall, movie theaters, and nightclubs it's just the way of American Life, now and forever.

Don't try to solve it because it's impossible to solve. There are two ways to solve it. One is to actually control guns in a sane way, which will never happen as long as the NRA exists. Conservative gun advocates fear that any legislation is just a door opening event that will eventually lead to the removal or the outlawing of their firearms.  I'm not saying they're wrong; in fact, I'm sure they're right.

The second way is to simply prohibit firearms everywhere. Then people can't shoot each other. I'm not advocating for it I am telling you that this is the other solution to the problem.  

So 20 years from now, we will be exactly where we are today as far as gun violence in this country. Mass shootings are now as American as apple pie and barbecue. 

The simple reason is that we have a tolerance level for mass shootings and death in this country. If 27 dead kindergarten kids, 558 mostly conservative country music concert goers, and a mowed-down Republican Congress softball team doesn't motivate you to want to be selective in regards to who gets an AR-15, then nothing will.

JD hit it perfectly.  His fear-slash-disdain of people with a differing political view paralyzes him into standing ground instead of working with the other side on a compromise to better the country because it isn't a total win.  @jd50ae you're not alone brother.  There are at least 150 million people who feel exactly the same way on one side of the aisle or the other.

I just pray that my kids' classrooms aren't next.  It could be worse, though; I could live in Tell Aviv....

NorCalR1

I was at my moms house a few weeks back about 2 miles from theGilroy Garlic Festival when I heard all the activity I knew something had gone terribly wrong. As a fire arm enthusiast I do not favor more restrictions ( I mean California’s laws the are as strict as they get) I think the underlying theme is mental health issues in our country that continue to go untreated. 

silvermouse

Amos_Umwhat

jd50ae said:

Amos_Umwhat said:

ShawnOL said:

  Thank the liberals for this mess.

Um, it's just what I was told by the people at the long term Mental Health facility when I was in school, but, according to those who worked there during those years, 90% of their permanent residents were released during the Reagan years.  In order to lower taxes.  Liberal?  I think the problem is probably bigger than partisan politics.

This has been posted elsewhere. Reagan shut them down, not out of malice or taxes, but because they were empty. They were empty because pharma and doctors convinced everyone that drugs were the answer. So a lot of people who needed one on one help were turned out to their own devices while in a stupor.

Over 2,500 patients is empty?  That's what it was when Reagan came to office.  270 residents when he left.  No, the new meds were instrumental in the argument to send those folks back to their communities, but not the only reason by far.  If that were so, it wouldn't have become so much more difficult to get someone admitted.

My own personal experience, during the W years, we would send violent psych patients down there, violence and threats attested to by multiple medical people as well as law enforcement, and they'd be back in the ER before the sheriff's deputy was done with his paperwork, because Reaganomics had defunded the facility so badly that they were unable to keep the patients there.  I know, I've seen it with my own eyes, many many times.

However, I am only giving you my perspective, and that of others who were affected daily while at work by what was happening.  Perhaps outsiders or other sources would know more, have a less personal perspective than those of us who were so up-close and personal with what was happening on the ground.

jd50ae

VegasFrank said:

We can't stop gun violence in this country any more than we can bring peace in the middle East. Kids going to school and coming home in body bags people dying in the mall, movie theaters, and nightclubs it's just the way of American Life, now and forever.

Don't try to solve it because it's impossible to solve. There are two ways to solve it. One is to actually control guns in a sane way, which will never happen as long as the NRA exists. Conservative gun advocates fear that any legislation is just a door opening event that will eventually lead to the removal or the outlawing of their firearms.  I'm not saying they're wrong; in fact, I'm sure they're right.

The second way is to simply prohibit firearms everywhere. Then people can't shoot each other. I'm not advocating for it I am telling you that this is the other solution to the problem.  

So 20 years from now, we will be exactly where we are today as far as gun violence in this country. Mass shootings are now as American as apple pie and barbecue. 

The simple reason is that we have a tolerance level for mass shootings and death in this country. If 27 dead kindergarten kids, 558 mostly conservative country music concert goers, and a mowed-down Republican Congress softball team doesn't motivate you to want to be selective in regards to who gets an AR-15, then nothing will.

JD hit it perfectly.  His fear-slash-disdain of people with a differing political view paralyzes him into standing ground instead of working with the other side on a compromise to better the country because it isn't a total win.  @jd50ae you're not alone brother.  There are at least 150 million people who feel exactly the same way on one side of the aisle or the other.

I just pray that my kids' classrooms aren't next.  It could be worse, though; I could live in Tell Aviv....

Thanks.
And now we get this.

https://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/universal-pictures-the-hunt-killing-deplorables-slammed-beyond-stick-disturbing

jd50ae

From the NYT a long time ago.

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html

Up for a little race baiting? 

Edited for question.

webmost

Are people nuttier now that they used to be?
Do shrinks really have an ability to diagnose and cure?

What change(s) in society have led to worse behavior?
Can any of these be changed back?

jd50ae

webmost said:

Are people nuttier now that they used to be?
Do shrinks really have an ability to diagnose and cure?

What change(s) in society have led to worse behavior?
Can any of these be changed back?

1. Yes. Lets eat a Tide Pod.
2. Most shrinks think drugs are the answer to everything. And evidently most people.
3. Power hungry politicians and their sheeple. No one listens to what they are really saying, just blindly follow.
4. Answers to that are just plain scary. Unless people vote out the hacks it is only going to get worse.

Amos_Umwhat

Amos_Umwhat said:

jd50ae said:

Amos_Umwhat said:

ShawnOL said:

  Thank the liberals for this mess.

Um, it's just what I was told by the people at the long term Mental Health facility when I was in school, but, according to those who worked there during those years, 90% of their permanent residents were released during the Reagan years.  In order to lower taxes.  Liberal?  I think the problem is probably bigger than partisan politics.

This has been posted elsewhere. Reagan shut them down, not out of malice or taxes, but because they were empty. They were empty because pharma and doctors convinced everyone that drugs were the answer. So a lot of people who needed one on one help were turned out to their own devices while in a stupor.

Over 2,500 patients is empty?  That's what it was when Reagan came to office.  270 residents when he left.  No, the new meds were instrumental in the argument to send those folks back to their communities, but not the only reason by far.  If that were so, it wouldn't have become so much more difficult to get someone admitted.

My own personal experience, during the W years, we would send violent psych patients down there, violence and threats attested to by multiple medical people as well as law enforcement, and they'd be back in the ER before the sheriff's deputy was done with his paperwork, because Reaganomics had defunded the facility so badly that they were unable to keep the patients there.  I know, I've seen it with my own eyes, many many times.

However, I am only giving you my perspective, and that of others who were affected daily while at work by what was happening.  Perhaps outsiders or other sources would know more, have a less personal perspective than those of us who were so up-close and personal with what was happening on the ground.

  HIlarious!  Someone disagrees with me over what I've seen and experienced.  Some people!

peter4jc

I'll go back and give you a WTF just to balance things out.

ShawnOL

AR-15s have been on the market since the 1960s.  Something has changed.  Rights are rights and they're not to be f**ked with.  The non-action in congress is because of one thing only.  Gun owners have been giving up their rights for decades, all in the name of compromise.   Gun owners have had enough of that.  There's never any compromise on the left.  When has the left ever said, we'll give you X and you give us Y?  They say we want X,Y and Z.  We'll TAKE X and let you keep Y and Z.... until we come after those too.

The left can only see one solution, gun prohibition, in any form possible.  To them there is no other way.  More cops in schools?   Nope.  More guns must mean more violence, even if its the cops.   Its not the fault of the NRA, its the fault of the left, which knows nothing but poor knee-jerk reactionary legislation.

The left controls just about every major city in America.  What do these cities have more than the rest of America?   Crime, corruption and violence.

You want to see some actual REAL change in America?   Start enforcing the thousands of laws we already have on the books.  Throw away the f**king key the first time someone commits an armed robbery instead of letting them out in a few months.   You want to see a change in our culture?   Start warming your kid's ass when he gets out of line.  He'll eventually stop getting out of line.

Rant over.

jd50ae

Amos_Umwhat said:

Amos_Umwhat said:

jd50ae said:

Amos_Umwhat said:

ShawnOL said:

  Thank the liberals for this mess.

Um, it's just what I was told by the people at the long term Mental Health facility when I was in school, but, according to those who worked there during those years, 90% of their permanent residents were released during the Reagan years.  In order to lower taxes.  Liberal?  I think the problem is probably bigger than partisan politics.

This has been posted elsewhere. Reagan shut them down, not out of malice or taxes, but because they were empty. They were empty because pharma and doctors convinced everyone that drugs were the answer. So a lot of people who needed one on one help were turned out to their own devices while in a stupor.

Over 2,500 patients is empty?  That's what it was when Reagan came to office.  270 residents when he left.  No, the new meds were instrumental in the argument to send those folks back to their communities, but not the only reason by far.  If that were so, it wouldn't have become so much more difficult to get someone admitted.

My own personal experience, during the W years, we would send violent psych patients down there, violence and threats attested to by multiple medical people as well as law enforcement, and they'd be back in the ER before the sheriff's deputy was done with his paperwork, because Reaganomics had defunded the facility so badly that they were unable to keep the patients there.  I know, I've seen it with my own eyes, many many times.

However, I am only giving you my perspective, and that of others who were affected daily while at work by what was happening.  Perhaps outsiders or other sources would know more, have a less personal perspective than those of us who were so up-close and personal with what was happening on the ground.

  HIlarious!  Someone disagrees with me over what I've seen and experienced.  Some people!

https://www.nytimes.com/1984/10/30/science/how-release-of-mental-patients-began.html

Were you an inmate or caretaker?

Amos_Umwhat

READ the post.  It helps with perspective. 

As I noted, as one of those taking care of the patients, working IN the system, I may have been too close to the trees to see the forest.  Perhaps those who never shared my experiences, able to see the problem from a safe distance, may have a greater understanding.

When you're the one being punched, bit, scratched, kicked, spit on, vomited on, and having the patient re-open their self-inflicted wounds so they can smear the blood on you, it clouds your viewpoint.  In many cases the problem was simple, the patient had taken their meds for awhile, "felt better", stopped the meds, wigged out. 

What they needed was a few days in a safe, confined environment for the meds to kick back in.  THAT WAS NOT AVAILABLE BECAUSE THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT HAD CUT THE FUNDING.  This was the case under both Repugnican and Dumbocrat administrations. 

Period, end of story.

For your own sake JD, turn off FOX news for awhile.  You're too close to the rabidness of their talking heads.  They're poisoning your brain with hate.  It's affecting your relationships. 

Just my opinion, do what you want.

Amos_Umwhat

My apologies to the BOTL/SOTL who have had to endure this.  I'll say no more on this subject.

jd50ae

I love the assumptions being made on here. Fox has become overburdened with hard core libs and their hate, You should check it out. I watch a lot of news shows, cnn and msnbc are not to be trusted to tell the truth about anything so they are not included.
Did you read the article? It is from a time past when the NYT was a real newspaper, 1984 or there about.
Accepting one source for information is not what I do, that would be what lib sheep do. And that ain't ever gonna happen. 
By the way,I am neither a rep or a dem. But as long as dems refuse to get out of the way with their very serious TDS and start helping the law abiding hard working citizens of this country there really isn't much choice.