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Same tobacco different flavors

Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

Wondering how some cigars could be made of the same tobaccos but taste different. Trade secretes I assume? Question arises because it's hard for me to find smaller cigars with wider gauges that I have preferred. Wife is complaining about how long it takes for me to smoke a cigar but all the ones I like are longer and don't have shorter counterparts that don't sacrifice gauge. I know I've asked or made some silly suggestions in my quest to learn more so out of respect for the community I'm trying to avoid that 😅. Thanks guys.

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Comments

  • ShawnOLShawnOL Near BostonPosts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Have you tried NUB by Olivia?

  • peter4jcpeter4jc Milwaukee, WIPosts: 7,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Agree w/Shawn.

    Why insist on a bigger ring gage?

    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • VisionVision Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @peter4jc said:
    Agree w/Shawn.

    Why insist on a bigger ring gage?

    I agree with both gents.... maybe two different Robusto .... switch it up a bit throughout the day. Back to Shawn’s point... I still really enjoy a nub from time to time.

  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    This is... Probably a BS observation because I've had a few and this forum has actually been great about the call outs because it's helping me learn how to enjoy better/more often, but I don't know if I'm roasting them or what but smaller gauges seem less flavorful to me. Maybe I have a harder draw? For instance I like the 60s rocky puts out and when I try a Churchill there is almost no flavor when I try them. Love me those padrons as well. The only thing that negates that theory possible (not definitely) if they never taste like tar or burn me until the bottom. What ever the reason I'm just having better experiences with larger gauges. I've even started staying away from ketchup because I've found that just kills all flavor for me. Again this could be total BS but just what I've been experimenting with.

  • YaksterYakster I'm on a Buying Freeze / I sent the Coffee Filters!Posts: 12,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nubs seem to take as long to smoke as their longer counterparts, IMHO. I tried the Bughatti Boss Half Corona, short smoke with a large ring, but didn't rock my world.

    I like the BWS Rorschach for a full flavor smoke on a time limit and the La Palina El Dario "Kill Bill II' is a strong, short smoke.

    I'll gladly bomb you Tuesday for an Opus today.

                  Join us on the New Zoom vHerf (Meeting # 2619860114 Password vHerf2020 )
  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    Tried one nub and wasn't a huge fan. Was early into this though. Also I've gotten the half length 60s by rocky but honestly I only enjoy the 15th anniversary by them and they don't come that way. The espada has been pretty consistent no matter the size though so I've got at least one good smoke there.

  • VegasFrankVegasFrank 3,245.6 miles from the devious bástärd herfPosts: 4,184 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The answer is to trade your wife in for a newer model. You'll thank me later.

    President of the ccom Rocky Patel Fan Club
    Any of you guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya.
    AJ blends don't suck.
    What would Nick smoke?
    She's not much of a wrestler....
    Be like Peter; only order items that are in stock!
    "Time wounds all heels" - @Usaf06
  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

  • VisionVision Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭✭

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

    Larger gauge and/or length will allow for more “filtering” of smoke and heat absolutely. I personally find better and more consistent flavor out of say a Corona or Lancero as long as you’re not using them like a snorkel and sucking them down in 15 minutes. MHO

  • ShawnOLShawnOL Near BostonPosts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Smaller rings seem to give a larger wrapper to filler ratio. Larger rings seem to give a lot more filler flavor. At least, that's how I see it.

  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken already sucked before joining forum,.....just sayin'.Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You might try a large ring cutter and chop your favorite "lengthy" cigar in half. I've done this to basic budget churchills that I have otherwise avoided for years in my humidor. I smoke each half on lunch breaks at work. Yes, it's a poor substitute for ideal cigar enjoyment. And yes, the lower end of the two halves will try to unravel, but a little spit under that unraveling wrapper, and some mindfulness can afford you a shorter timeframe smoke in the ring gauge you prefer. And there are other pitfalls. You could ruin both halves in the attempt. Some people might call the whole idea a sacrilege or just stupid,.... and it is. All I'm saying is I've done it, and my lunch breaks were better for it.

  • ShawnOLShawnOL Near BostonPosts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Smoke half a Churchill and put it down. Came back later, cut off the char and relight it.

  • BKDogBKDog NE PAPosts: 1,100 ✭✭✭✭✭

    When in doubt, try Oliva cigars, especially the Melanio. Any vitola you choose will be awesome. As was mentioned before, the filler to wrapper ratio changes with size, and sometimes when blending, the filler ratio itself may be changed. I've also found corona, half corona, and lancero to be more flavorful and concentrated, not to mention just better for many cigars I enjoy. Then there's the ubiquitous robusto, which is not only the easiest to hand roll, but a solid all-round performer and not too hard on the time scale to smoke.
    If you can't find a smaller size cigar for the ones you typically enjoy, consider sampling something new. There's a massive world of cigars out there, lots to discover!

    "Love is a dung heap, Betty and I am but a c.o.c.k. that climbs upon it to crow."
  • deadmandeadman Midland, NCPosts: 5,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Bob_Luken said:
    You might try a large ring cutter and chop your favorite "lengthy" cigar in half. I've done this to basic budget churchills that I have otherwise avoided for years in my humidor. I smoke each half on lunch breaks at work. Yes, it's a poor substitute for ideal cigar enjoyment. And yes, the lower end of the two halves will try to unravel, but a little spit under that unraveling wrapper, and some mindfulness can afford you a shorter timeframe smoke in the ring gauge you prefer. And there are other pitfalls. You could ruin both halves in the attempt. Some people might call the whole idea a sacrilege or just stupid,.... and it is. All I'm saying is I've done it, and my lunch breaks were better for it.

    Buy some pectin from Walmart to stop the unraveling

  • TruDogTruDog Posts: 6,464 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    This is... Probably a BS observation because I've had a few and this forum has actually been great about the call outs because it's helping me learn how to enjoy better/more often, but I don't know if I'm roasting them or what but smaller gauges seem less flavorful to me. Maybe I have a harder draw? For instance I like the 60s rocky puts out and when I try a Churchill there is almost no flavor when I try them. Love me those padrons as well. The only thing that negates that theory possible (not definitely) if they never taste like tar or burn me until the bottom. What ever the reason I'm just having better experiences with larger gauges. I've even started staying away from ketchup because I've found that just kills all flavor for me. Again this could be total BS but just what I've been experimenting with.

    ...Don't understand what ketchup has to do with flavor of a Cigar.

  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    @TruDog said:

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    This is... Probably a BS observation because I've had a few and this forum has actually been great about the call outs because it's helping me learn how to enjoy better/more often, but I don't know if I'm roasting them or what but smaller gauges seem less flavorful to me. Maybe I have a harder draw? For instance I like the 60s rocky puts out and when I try a Churchill there is almost no flavor when I try them. Love me those padrons as well. The only thing that negates that theory possible (not definitely) if they never taste like tar or burn me until the bottom. What ever the reason I'm just having better experiences with larger gauges. I've even started staying away from ketchup because I've found that just kills all flavor for me. Again this could be total BS but just what I've been experimenting with.

    ...Don't understand what ketchup has to do with flavor of a Cigar.

    Destroys my taste buds every time. Cigar tastes flat

  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    @TruDog said:

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:

    @TruDog said:

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    This is... Probably a BS observation because I've had a few and this forum has actually been great about the call outs because it's helping me learn how to enjoy better/more often, but I don't know if I'm roasting them or what but smaller gauges seem less flavorful to me. Maybe I have a harder draw? For instance I like the 60s rocky puts out and when I try a Churchill there is almost no flavor when I try them. Love me those padrons as well. The only thing that negates that theory possible (not definitely) if they never taste like tar or burn me until the bottom. What ever the reason I'm just having better experiences with larger gauges. I've even started staying away from ketchup because I've found that just kills all flavor for me. Again this could be total BS but just what I've been experimenting with.

    ...Don't understand what ketchup has to do with flavor of a Cigar.

    Destroys my taste buds every time. Cigar tastes flat

    ...TeKillYa... best palate cleanser, just say'n.

    I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

  • VegasFrankVegasFrank 3,245.6 miles from the devious bástärd herfPosts: 4,184 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

    No truth to that. There have been dozens of experiments confirming that cherries and ashes of larger ring gauges are hotter at the core.

    A conceptual experiment: Imagine that you took a bïrch twig and set it on fire. Take the temp of the twig and all of the air around the twig. Now, set a bïrch forest on fire. The heat coming off of that fire will melt tires on a car from a quarter mile away from the flames. Heat builds. It doesn't diffuse faster.

    Back to rolled up tobacco leaves: the heat in the cherry of a gordo builds and the burn is actually hotter than, say, in a corona (seven rolled up leaves vs. three or four). The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down (which is the same guiding principle of why you don't chug hard liquor).

    Moral of the story: Slow down for a better taste. I'm a fast smoker, and even smoking my 62 percent cigars in my 15 percent humidity, it takes me 45-55 minutes for a robusto and 1:25 to 1:40 for a Toro, depending on the quality of it. I used to burn my robustos I'm 30 to 45 and Toro's in about an hour and the last third was always tasteless or worse, bitter.

    President of the ccom Rocky Patel Fan Club
    Any of you guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya.
    AJ blends don't suck.
    What would Nick smoke?
    She's not much of a wrestler....
    Be like Peter; only order items that are in stock!
    "Time wounds all heels" - @Usaf06
  • VegasFrankVegasFrank 3,245.6 miles from the devious bástärd herfPosts: 4,184 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And it seems as though the word b i r c h is a bad word? Lololol

    President of the ccom Rocky Patel Fan Club
    Any of you guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya.
    AJ blends don't suck.
    What would Nick smoke?
    She's not much of a wrestler....
    Be like Peter; only order items that are in stock!
    "Time wounds all heels" - @Usaf06
  • Spyk_Saturn12Spyk_Saturn12 Posts: 66 ✭✭✭

    @VegasFrank said:

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

    No truth to that. There have been dozens of experiments confirming that cherries and ashes of larger ring gauges are hotter at the core.

    A conceptual experiment: Imagine that you took a bïrch twig and set it on fire. Take the temp of the twig and all of the air around the twig. Now, set a bïrch forest on fire. The heat coming off of that fire will melt tires on a car from a quarter mile away from the flames. Heat builds. It doesn't diffuse faster.

    Back to rolled up tobacco leaves: the heat in the cherry of a gordo builds and the burn is actually hotter than, say, in a corona (seven rolled up leaves vs. three or four). The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down (which is the same guiding principle of why you don't chug hard liquor).

    Moral of the story: Slow down for a better taste. I'm a fast smoker, and even smoking my 62 percent cigars in my 15 percent humidity, it takes me 45-55 minutes for a robusto and 1:25 to 1:40 for a Toro, depending on the quality of it. I used to burn my robustos I'm 30 to 45 and Toro's in about an hour and the last third was always tasteless or worse, bitter.

    I'm usually about an hour to 2 hours depending on length. Not a fast smoker. Not sure what it is then. Maybe I prefer more filler. I'm sure I'll get this figured out eventually 🤣

  • VegasFrankVegasFrank 3,245.6 miles from the devious bástärd herfPosts: 4,184 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure thing brother!

    President of the ccom Rocky Patel Fan Club
    Any of you guys call ME Francis, and I'll kill ya.
    AJ blends don't suck.
    What would Nick smoke?
    She's not much of a wrestler....
    Be like Peter; only order items that are in stock!
    "Time wounds all heels" - @Usaf06
  • WylaffWylaff Reno, NVPosts: 4,756 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VegasFrank said:
    And it seems as though the word b i r c h is a bad word? Lololol

    What a knob.

    "Cooking isn't about struggling; It's about pleasure. It's like sǝx, with a wider variety of sauces."

    I hate myself, and I don't regret any of it.

    At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...

  • deadmandeadman Midland, NCPosts: 5,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wylaff said:

    @VegasFrank said:
    And it seems as though the word b i r c h is a bad word? Lololol

    What a knob.

    At least you can say knob now.

  • ShawnOLShawnOL Near BostonPosts: 1,716 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2

    @Spyk_Saturn12 smoke what pleases you. That's all that matters. You're going to smoke a ton of different cigars, eventually you'll settle into your own groove.

  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken already sucked before joining forum,.....just sayin'.Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited July 2

    And while we're on the subject of time constraints, smoking the whole cigar is not the goal IMHO. The only thing that should matter is the cost/time ratio. Ask yourself if you want to spend $xx.xx worth of cigar for only XX minutes of smoking? If the answer is no, then your goal is a lower priced cigar that still tastes good to you, not necessarily a shorter cigar just because think you need to smoke all of it.

    Post edited by Bob_Luken on
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Milwaukee, WIPosts: 7,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    ^^^that right there is the kind of wisdom that most people have to go to India and climb some kinda mountain for. But we have it here, at your convenience, free of charge.

    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • Bob_LukenBob_Luken already sucked before joining forum,.....just sayin'.Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @VegasFrank said:

    @Spyk_Saturn12 said:
    I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.

    No truth to that. There have been dozens of experiments confirming that cherries and ashes of larger ring gauges are hotter at the core.

    A conceptual experiment: Imagine that you took a bïrch twig and set it on fire. Take the temp of the twig and all of the air around the twig. Now, set a bïrch forest on fire. The heat coming off of that fire will melt tires on a car from a quarter mile away from the flames. Heat builds. It doesn't diffuse faster.

    Back to rolled up tobacco leaves: the heat in the cherry of a gordo builds and the burn is actually hotter than, say, in a corona (seven rolled up leaves vs. three or four). The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down (which is the same guiding principle of why you don't chug hard liquor).

    Moral of the story: Slow down for a better taste. I'm a fast smoker, and even smoking my 62 percent cigars in my 15 percent humidity, it takes me 45-55 minutes for a robusto and 1:25 to 1:40 for a Toro, depending on the quality of it. I used to burn my robustos I'm 30 to 45 and Toro's in about an hour and the last third was always tasteless or worse, bitter.

    @VegasFrank Well Frank, you got me disagreeing with one small part of all that. " The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down" I'm not gonna agree with that last part. The reason I'm drawing slower is a deliberate action in order to have better flavor throughout my entire cigar. That is one of the first things I learned to try and control. Slower means cooler, and cooler means better flavor. When I take cues from my body is when I end up smoking too fast. My body's subconscious messaging sucks. "Hey, that last draw was GOOOOD. Let's take another draw ASAP."

  • peter4jcpeter4jc Milwaukee, WIPosts: 7,772 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I also think it has something to do w/ surface area in proportion to the volume of air sucking through the cigar.

    Here's a side question; can you take a cigar's ring gage multiplied by its length and use that number as a way to specify how much tobacco it has? Does a 4x60 Nub have the same volume as a 6x40 lancero?

    This is making my brain try to re-start... lanceros need more frequent draws to stay lit. Does that mean they burn hotter, or does it just mean that I haven't adjusted my volume of air in the draw? Does the fact that fatties stay lit better mean Frank is right, that the fatty's cherry is hotter?

    Everybody says gordos burn cooler. I need to know why.

    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
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