Same tobacco different flavors
Spyk_Saturn12
Posts: 72 ✭✭✭
in Cigar 101
Wondering how some cigars could be made of the same tobaccos but taste different. Trade secretes I assume? Question arises because it's hard for me to find smaller cigars with wider gauges that I have preferred. Wife is complaining about how long it takes for me to smoke a cigar but all the ones I like are longer and don't have shorter counterparts that don't sacrifice gauge. I know I've asked or made some silly suggestions in my quest to learn more so out of respect for the community I'm trying to avoid that 😅. Thanks guys.
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Have you tried NUB by Olivia?
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
Agree w/Shawn.
Why insist on a bigger ring gage?
I agree with both gents.... maybe two different Robusto .... switch it up a bit throughout the day. Back to Shawn’s point... I still really enjoy a nub from time to time.
This is... Probably a BS observation because I've had a few and this forum has actually been great about the call outs because it's helping me learn how to enjoy better/more often, but I don't know if I'm roasting them or what but smaller gauges seem less flavorful to me. Maybe I have a harder draw? For instance I like the 60s rocky puts out and when I try a Churchill there is almost no flavor when I try them. Love me those padrons as well. The only thing that negates that theory possible (not definitely) if they never taste like tar or burn me until the bottom. What ever the reason I'm just having better experiences with larger gauges. I've even started staying away from ketchup because I've found that just kills all flavor for me. Again this could be total BS but just what I've been experimenting with.
Nubs seem to take as long to smoke as their longer counterparts, IMHO. I tried the Bughatti Boss Half Corona, short smoke with a large ring, but didn't rock my world.
I like the BWS Rorschach for a full flavor smoke on a time limit and the La Palina El Dario "Kill Bill II' is a strong, short smoke.
Tried one nub and wasn't a huge fan. Was early into this though. Also I've gotten the half length 60s by rocky but honestly I only enjoy the 15th anniversary by them and they don't come that way. The espada has been pretty consistent no matter the size though so I've got at least one good smoke there.
The answer is to trade your wife in for a newer model. You'll thank me later.
I found some truth suggesting a bigger cigar burns cooler. If that's not bs that would explain more flavor vs more of just a smokey taste. Bigger ones I'm getting more flavors vs smoke unless I draw like I'm nibbling a cracker. I'll try out some of these suggestions. Thanks guys.
Larger gauge and/or length will allow for more “filtering” of smoke and heat absolutely. I personally find better and more consistent flavor out of say a Corona or Lancero as long as you’re not using them like a snorkel and sucking them down in 15 minutes. MHO
Smaller rings seem to give a larger wrapper to filler ratio. Larger rings seem to give a lot more filler flavor. At least, that's how I see it.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
It's taken me years & years to feel confident that I am even approaching blending competence. So add your grain of salt. But here is what I can contribute:
Makers never tell you what's in it. Do they say Dominican T-13 viso from Vuelta Abajo 2018 crop? Nope. They say, at most, Dominican filler. But there's a vast diff whether the leaf was plucked from the top, the middle, or the bottom of the plant, there's a vast diff whether the farmer planted Criollo, Habano, Corojo, Rene, Piloto Cubano, etc., &, it being an agricultural product, there's also a vast diff what soil it was grown in, and even what year it was grown in.
Do they tell you how it was fermented? I am told that cigar makers very frequently petune the leaf. By that I mean that the leaves are sprayed with go juice made from some citric fruity mojo during fermentation. I've never done it. Some home rollers do. Do they tell you what they spritzed on the leaf during fermentation? Nope.
Ring gauge also makes a vast diff in the same leaf combo. Think about it: the wrapper, for instance, measures the same thickness in a 46rg corona as it does in a 50rg robusto. But the proportion of that leaf will unavoidably be much greater in the corona.
For that matter, do they tell you about proportion at all? Or where they put it? A slight bit of Indonesian used as binder will mellow a strong filler. As filler, it is awful stuff. A half leaf of corojo in the core of a gar is one thing, when surrounded by mellow Dom seco; but the reverse will kick your butt.
So, no, you don't know that two gars have the same baccies in 'em.
Smoke volume also makes a diff in flavor. I recently bought a couple pounds of Pelo de Oro (Golden Hair) baccy. I'd never tried, nor even seen, that type of leaf. The innerwebz tells me it used to be used extensively in Cuba, but was discontinued because it is susceptible to a contagious blight called blue mold. One of the first things I do when I get a new leaf is pinch off a leaf tip and spark it. You can tell a lot just by smelling the smudge that comes off that lit bit. I most always roll perfectos; sometimes coronas... but, when snurfing Golden Hair, I immediately thot "This thing would benefit from volume," so now I am making 52 rg robustos from it, with a criollo core, and they are marvelous. Would a corona taste the same? Nope.
How much gar you smoke makes a big diff too. Length is a kind of filter, after all.
If the wife complains you are spending too much time, and you complain you cannot control the flavor by buying shorter, then the logical solution would be to stop spending so much time and control the flavor. That means roll your own & roll 'em short. You'll both be happy.
The good news is, rolling your own is not a task... what is really is, it's another way to enjoy tobacco, in half the time. It's really just as relaxing as smoking one, and that's a fact. Also does not stink up the joint.
Other than that, you could smoke half a gar and toss the rest. That's KISS. You know what the prob is, & the solution is right in front of you. As my good friend Billy O'Occam told me just the other day: Just use that precious portion of the least common of the senses with which God has blessed you, and git 'er done.
The Golden Hair busto:
You might try a large ring cutter and chop your favorite "lengthy" cigar in half. I've done this to basic budget churchills that I have otherwise avoided for years in my humidor. I smoke each half on lunch breaks at work. Yes, it's a poor substitute for ideal cigar enjoyment. And yes, the lower end of the two halves will try to unravel, but a little spit under that unraveling wrapper, and some mindfulness can afford you a shorter timeframe smoke in the ring gauge you prefer. And there are other pitfalls. You could ruin both halves in the attempt. Some people might call the whole idea a sacrilege or just stupid,.... and it is. All I'm saying is I've done it, and my lunch breaks were better for it.
Smoke half a Churchill and put it down. Came back later, cut off the char and relight it.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
When in doubt, try Oliva cigars, especially the Melanio. Any vitola you choose will be awesome. As was mentioned before, the filler to wrapper ratio changes with size, and sometimes when blending, the filler ratio itself may be changed. I've also found corona, half corona, and lancero to be more flavorful and concentrated, not to mention just better for many cigars I enjoy. Then there's the ubiquitous robusto, which is not only the easiest to hand roll, but a solid all-round performer and not too hard on the time scale to smoke.
If you can't find a smaller size cigar for the ones you typically enjoy, consider sampling something new. There's a massive world of cigars out there, lots to discover!
Buy some pectin from Walmart to stop the unraveling
...Don't understand what ketchup has to do with flavor of a Cigar.
Destroys my taste buds every time. Cigar tastes flat
...TeKillYa... best palate cleanser, just say'n.
I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!
No truth to that. There have been dozens of experiments confirming that cherries and ashes of larger ring gauges are hotter at the core.
A conceptual experiment: Imagine that you took a bïrch twig and set it on fire. Take the temp of the twig and all of the air around the twig. Now, set a bïrch forest on fire. The heat coming off of that fire will melt tires on a car from a quarter mile away from the flames. Heat builds. It doesn't diffuse faster.
Back to rolled up tobacco leaves: the heat in the cherry of a gordo builds and the burn is actually hotter than, say, in a corona (seven rolled up leaves vs. three or four). The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down (which is the same guiding principle of why you don't chug hard liquor).
Moral of the story: Slow down for a better taste. I'm a fast smoker, and even smoking my 62 percent cigars in my 15 percent humidity, it takes me 45-55 minutes for a robusto and 1:25 to 1:40 for a Toro, depending on the quality of it. I used to burn my robustos I'm 30 to 45 and Toro's in about an hour and the last third was always tasteless or worse, bitter.
And it seems as though the word b i r c h is a bad word? Lololol
I'm usually about an hour to 2 hours depending on length. Not a fast smoker. Not sure what it is then. Maybe I prefer more filler. I'm sure I'll get this figured out eventually 🤣
Sure thing brother!
What a knob.
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
At least you can say knob now.
@Spyk_Saturn12 smoke what pleases you. That's all that matters. You're going to smoke a ton of different cigars, eventually you'll settle into your own groove.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
And while we're on the subject of time constraints, smoking the whole cigar is not the goal IMHO. The only thing that should matter is the cost/time ratio. Ask yourself if you want to spend $xx.xx worth of cigar for only XX minutes of smoking? If the answer is no, then your goal is a lower priced cigar that still tastes good to you, not necessarily a shorter cigar just because think you need to smoke all of it.
^^^that right there is the kind of wisdom that most people have to go to India and climb some kinda mountain for. But we have it here, at your convenience, free of charge.
@VegasFrank Well Frank, you got me disagreeing with one small part of all that. " The reason that the smoke you draw is cooler is because you're drawing it slower, and the reason that you're drawing it slower is because you're getting more nicotine and your body instinctively slows you down" I'm not gonna agree with that last part. The reason I'm drawing slower is a deliberate action in order to have better flavor throughout my entire cigar. That is one of the first things I learned to try and control. Slower means cooler, and cooler means better flavor. When I take cues from my body is when I end up smoking too fast. My body's subconscious messaging sucks. "Hey, that last draw was GOOOOD. Let's take another draw ASAP."
I also think it has something to do w/ surface area in proportion to the volume of air sucking through the cigar.
Here's a side question; can you take a cigar's ring gage multiplied by its length and use that number as a way to specify how much tobacco it has? Does a 4x60 Nub have the same volume as a 6x40 lancero?
This is making my brain try to re-start... lanceros need more frequent draws to stay lit. Does that mean they burn hotter, or does it just mean that I haven't adjusted my volume of air in the draw? Does the fact that fatties stay lit better mean Frank is right, that the fatty's cherry is hotter?
Everybody says gordos burn cooler. I need to know why.