Here we go ... again!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.

Comments

  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    The House of representatives is elected by districts of people to represent them. They are doing just what most of us want them to do. We elected them to put a stop to this sham reform of healthcare.
  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • raisindotraisindot BostonPosts: 1,308 ✭✭✭
    webmost:
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    To refute your assertions:
    1): Yes, the Congress did pass budgets for every fiscal year during the first two years of the Obama administration. They might not have been balanced budgets, but they were passed. "Squander" is up to interpretation. I believe that while the stimulus didn't create nearly as many jobs as promised, it certainly saved hundreds of thousands of jobs from being lost. the biggest proof of this is the hundreds of thousands of state and federal workers who lost their jobs as soon as the stimulus ended. In fact, more federal and state jobs have been shed during the Obama administration than in nearly every other administration in recent times. And the Obama administration has more unfilled federal executive positions than any administration in recent history. If you're a fan of shrinking government, it's certainly happened. And those jobs are not likely to come back.

    2) Yes, jobs are created by bills. The New Deal programs created millions of jobs for workers for whom there were no other opportunities, and its results--electrification in rural areas, new roads, highways and bridges, etc.--brought much of rural America into the 20th century. More recently, the creation of the Department of Homeland Security created thousands of new jobs for TSA drones and NSA eavesdroppers devoted to restricting your liberty and invading your privacy.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    webmost:
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    Well thing is, the democrats didn't have a super majority in the Senate for very long and if you remember things were really bad in the beginning of 2009. Also the republicans blocked almost everything. The democratic house passed some 200 plus bills that would have really boosted the economy, however the GOP on their Stop Obama campaign made a mockery of the senate filibuster rule.

    Actually it is Dems' vs GOP. I didn't do that, they did. Democrats by and large are trying to the economy stronger while the GOP tries to cut everything and keep giving huge tax breaks to the super wealthy. Just recently the GOP started making waves about wanting to cut ACA funding and other social programs because of the deficit. Though our deficit is washing away as recent reports suggest. They have done this ever since Obama took office. It's pathetic. Really the only thing the two parties can agree on and pass are war funding and spy programs.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    beatnic:
    Well I wouldn't say that is exactly credible as there is a lot of fluff of opinion in that. Though I personally think that cutting anything else is foolish. The sequester already hurt a lot of people and didn't do much other than make things worse for a socially deprived nation. Funny how almost all of the money the GOP tries to squeeze are from non rich people of this country. Somehow that will save us all from collapse. The next major issue that this country will face and probably be worse than the banks tanking in 08 will be the Student Loans that will burst.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    webmost:
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    bills can create jobs.
    they do not create wealth. wealth is the cure for a poor society.
  • fla-gypsyfla-gypsy Posts: 3,024 ✭✭
    It is kind of hard to debate such a warped view of reality that the furry critter throws out there. I mean, when you have no common reference points from which to talk it's just not possible to discuss. The HOR was elected by and represents the little common people that the Squirrel claims they hate so. They are doing just what I want them to. Delay the train wreck that the ACA is long enough to kill it once and for all. Last I heard the minority opposition was perfectly willing to fund everything else and the Dems were saying it was all or nothing and trying to force the shutdown for political gain of course. The ACA is losing support daily and is now seen for what it was all along. A power grab by big government Dems to get more power and money like most of their ideas. I love how he suggests that all Conservatives are rich and all Dems little people. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Dems have decreed themselves the new aristocracy of the land. You know, I used to be a Democrat when they weren't so freakin psycho!
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    webmost:
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    bills can create jobs.
    they do not create wealth. wealth is the cure for a poor society.
    Wealth is only obtained in the construct of which it is allowed to live. Meaning as an example bank de-regulation happened and thus wal street and the banks looted it and made all sort of make believe investing which in turn toppled our economy. If the laws that were put in place from the last collapse it would not have happened. Also laws are only good if they are enforced so while a law may be good, if it isn't enforced then it wouldn't matter.

    I guess one could say a bill isn't going to make a person wealthy (well maybe if the person or persons making it benefit directly from it ... which has happened) however many people that push for laws do get wealthy by it because they bought it. Bills can go both ways though.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    fla-gypsy:
    It is kind of hard to debate such a warped view of reality that the furry critter throws out there. I mean, when you have no common reference points from which to talk it's just not possible to discuss. The HOR was elected by and represents the little common people that the Squirrel claims they hate so. They are doing just what I want them to. Delay the train wreck that the ACA is long enough to kill it once and for all. Last I heard the minority opposition was perfectly willing to fund everything else and the Dems were saying it was all or nothing and trying to force the shutdown for political gain of course. The ACA is losing support daily and is now seen for what it was all along. A power grab by big government Dems to get more power and money like most of their ideas. I love how he suggests that all Conservatives are rich and all Dems little people. Nothing could be further from the truth. The Dems have decreed themselves the new aristocracy of the land. You know, I used to be a Democrat when they weren't so freakin psycho!
    Well actually in the last election the HOR was actually over a million votes on the democratic side so if the GOP hadn't tore up districts so they would hold onto it then it would have went back to the dems. Plus name me one bill that the GOP house has passed that will actually benefit all Americans? I mean give me a jobs bill! There are none, all they do is pass bills to kill the ACA. And the ACA isn't losing support daily, in fact that's one of the reasons why Obama won a 2nd term.
    Already it has saved several states a lot of money http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/healthcare/news/2013/03/25/57946/only-3-years-old-the-affordable-care-act-is-already-having-a-big-impact/ and http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/health/health-plan-cost-for-new-yorkers-set-to-fall-50.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    The millions of dollars the koch brothers and american's for prosperity are spending to mislead people on the ACA may work in the southern states but even though the exchanges still haven't hit and many more changes won't be hitting till a bit later people are all ready seeing changes for the better. Though really the law doesn't go far enough the ACA will push many states to go further and do their own single payer. Oregon, Vermont, California, and others are and have been pushing the govt to allow them to do it.

    I don't know where you are hearing about how the dems are trying to force a shut down. Even though the GOP hasn't said they wanted to shut the govt down either .. yet, they have been saying that want to cut the big 3 and keep the sequestration cuts. They already caused the downgrade of our credit rating. I don't see how this is so hard to figure out. Sure the dems aren't IMO doing all that great and many of them should be booted but the GOP is and has done far worse.
  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    OK so Lets divide the country.....

    Democrat USA can have the East Coast and the West coast
    Democrat USA can have Nancy P and Harry R
    Democrat USA can use all the solar and wind they want (just dont go killin birds with them windmills)
    Democrat USA can have all the gays and mexicans
    Democrat USA can have the mosques
    Democrat USA can tax and spend all they want (works well in CA)

    Repubs USA can have the heartland (ie farms)
    Rebubs USA can have the oil and coal (and real power)
    Repubs USA can have the old farts to run the country
    Repubs USA can have the Military
    Repubs USA can have the straight folk
    Repubs USA can have their guns and ammo
    Repubs USA can have industry and a proper economy
    (one more)
    Rebubs USA can spank their kids when they are bad

    (wow this one just might get me in trouble)
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    jadelt:
    OK so Lets divide the country.....

    Democrat USA can have the East Coast and the West coast
    Democrat USA can have Nancy P and Harry R
    Democrat USA can use all the solar and wind they want (just dont go killin birds with them windmills)
    Democrat USA can have all the gays and mexicans
    Democrat USA can have the mosques
    Democrat USA can tax and spend all they want (works well in CA)

    Repubs USA can have the heartland (ie farms)
    Rebubs USA can have the oil and coal (and real power)
    Repubs USA can have the old farts to run the country
    Repubs USA can have the Military
    Repubs USA can have the straight folk
    Repubs USA can have their guns and ammo
    Repubs USA can have industry and a proper economy

    (wow this one just might get me in trouble)
    I hate to break it to you but if the south did go off and succeed they would fail big time and we would have half of the country in 3rd world status. Already most of the southern states already get more money from the govt then they give. If anything I think that the states that give more money into the federal govt should get more in return. Makes no sense to subsidize states that don't give their fair share. I personally wouldn't mind it, just put a fence around the states that want to leave. I'm sure within 20 years all of them would turn into horrible places to live. Then the south would turn into the mexico of the US though Mexico isn't doing to bad right now.
  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    I didn't realize North Dakota and Montana were in the south. Learn something new every day.

    Interesting that you could fence the states in but can't fence the boarders.
  • beatnicbeatnic Posts: 4,133
    I am soooo on the edge of piping in on this discussion, but the squirrel keeps proving my point. I think I'll let him hang himself.
  • kuzi16kuzi16 Posts: 14,616 ✭✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    webmost:
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    bills can create jobs.
    they do not create wealth. wealth is the cure for a poor society.
    Wealth is only obtained in the construct of which it is allowed to live. Meaning as an example bank de-regulation happened and thus wal street and the banks looted it and made all sort of make believe investing which in turn toppled our economy. If the laws that were put in place from the last collapse it would not have happened. Also laws are only good if they are enforced so while a law may be good, if it isn't enforced then it wouldn't matter.

    I guess one could say a bill isn't going to make a person wealthy (well maybe if the person or persons making it benefit directly from it ... which has happened) however many people that push for laws do get wealthy by it because they bought it. Bills can go both ways though.
    none of that had anything to do with my comment. it makes no sense at all in context to what i was talking about.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    kuzi16:
    phobicsquirrel:
    kuzi16:
    webmost:
    phobicsquirrel:
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/27/democrats-republicans-hint-at-shutdown-before-budget-talks-involving-obamacare/

    Should be routine, but again a shut down looms because, the gop want to play games once again. Why is it when the gop runs the house they love their little investigations into nothing and love trying to shut down the govt. Is this budget ever going to be passed!? Already though, they wasted how many millions trying to kill the ACA? Well at least 38 times ... I'm sure more times will follow. And surprisingly no job bills.
    1) With democrats in charge of both houses during O's first 2 years we did not get a budget. We only got a squander.
    2) Jobs are not created by bills.

    Leave off the republicans versus democrats theme. It's not republicans versus democrats. It's government versus people.

    bills can create jobs.
    they do not create wealth. wealth is the cure for a poor society.
    Wealth is only obtained in the construct of which it is allowed to live. Meaning as an example bank de-regulation happened and thus wal street and the banks looted it and made all sort of make believe investing which in turn toppled our economy. If the laws that were put in place from the last collapse it would not have happened. Also laws are only good if they are enforced so while a law may be good, if it isn't enforced then it wouldn't matter.

    I guess one could say a bill isn't going to make a person wealthy (well maybe if the person or persons making it benefit directly from it ... which has happened) however many people that push for laws do get wealthy by it because they bought it. Bills can go both ways though.
    none of that had anything to do with my comment. it makes no sense at all in context to what i was talking about.
    actually it does. but you know whatever.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    jadelt:
    I didn't realize North Dakota and Montana were in the south. Learn something new every day.

    Interesting that you could fence the states in but can't fence the boarders.
    Oh I'm sorry... maybe it's my somewhat northern-ness but since north and south Dakota align themselves with a lot of the southern politics a lot of us assume it is part of the south.
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    beatnic:
    I am soooo on the edge of piping in on this discussion, but the squirrel keeps proving my point. I think I'll let him hang himself.
    well why not, seems we need more crazy around here? :-) ...I'm waiting for the pitchforks.
  • raisindotraisindot BostonPosts: 1,308 ✭✭✭
    phobicsquirrel:
    jadelt:
    I didn't realize North Dakota and Montana were in the south. Learn something new every day.

    Interesting that you could fence the states in but can't fence the boarders.
    Oh I'm sorry... maybe it's my somewhat northern-ness but since north and south Dakota align themselves with a lot of the southern politics a lot of us assume it is part of the south.
    You don't want to make that mistake. Much of the lower midwest and most of the non-coastal western states roughly (but not totally) align with southern politics. Hell even up here in liberal looneyland New Hampshire is our 'token' conservative state--although only by New England standards.. :)
  • jthanatosjthanatos Posts: 1,570 ✭✭
    raisindot:
    phobicsquirrel:
    jadelt:
    I didn't realize North Dakota and Montana were in the south. Learn something new every day.

    Interesting that you could fence the states in but can't fence the boarders.
    Oh I'm sorry... maybe it's my somewhat northern-ness but since north and south Dakota align themselves with a lot of the southern politics a lot of us assume it is part of the south.
    You don't want to make that mistake. Much of the lower midwest and most of the non-coastal western states roughly (but not totally) align with southern politics. Hell even up here in liberal looneyland New Hampshire is our 'token' conservative state--although only by New England standards.. :)
    Many states are red in almost every county except major metro areas. Dividing the country is just stupid any way you slice it.
  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    phobicsquirrel:
    jadelt:
    I didn't realize North Dakota and Montana were in the south. Learn something new every day.

    Interesting that you could fence the states in but can't fence the boarders.
    Oh I'm sorry... maybe it's my somewhat northern-ness but since north and south Dakota align themselves with a lot of the southern politics a lot of us assume it is part of the south.
    Time to throw the BS flag. When your opinions dont hold water just make stuff up. I do agree with you on one thing. I approve of the last part of your signature line.

    Instead of Truman's posted notice "The Buck Stops Here" We seem to have Obama's "See no Evil""
  • webmostwebmost Dull-AwarePosts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Instead of ducking and dodging facts and attacking fellow brethren (which I had hoped we gave up several months ago here), how about we instead consider the merits of the bill itself? Why does the very author of said bill now call it an impending train wreck? Shouldn't he know? In what way does it make health care affordable? Does it reform torts? Does it make drugs cost less than a fortune to bring to market? Does it increase the number of doctors and hospitals? Does it make durable goods, medical salaries, hospital stays, labs, tests, any of that any cheaper? Or does it mostly make mandatory an insurance which too many cannot afford, and of a flavor which virtually nobody has ever been able to afford, along with massive bureaucracy which we have to pay for as well? Is it not the hugest tax hike ever, written by the very industry it purports to control? Does it make health care affordable, or is the whole mess flat out unaffordable for, let's face it, a broke nation to enact now?

    Was it or was it not passed in haste without debate in the face of public opposition by parliamentary trickery and in ignorance of it's contents? Just answer me that.

    If it deserves repeal now that we have discovered what those contents are, then it deserves repeal, period, however many attempts it may take to get the job done.

    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)


  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    There you go again...... confusing the issue with facts
  • phobicsquirrelphobicsquirrel Posts: 7,349
    webmost:
    Instead of ducking and dodging facts and attacking fellow brethren (which I had hoped we gave up several months ago here), how about we instead consider the merits of the bill itself? Why does the very author of said bill now call it an impending train wreck? Shouldn't he know? In what way does it make health care affordable? Does it reform torts? Does it make drugs cost less than a fortune to bring to market? Does it increase the number of doctors and hospitals? Does it make durable goods, medical salaries, hospital stays, labs, tests, any of that any cheaper? Or does it mostly make mandatory an insurance which too many cannot afford, and of a flavor which virtually nobody has ever been able to afford, along with massive bureaucracy which we have to pay for as well? Is it not the hugest tax hike ever, written by the very industry it purports to control? Does it make health care affordable, or is the whole mess flat out unaffordable for, let's face it, a broke nation to enact now?

    Was it or was it not passed in haste without debate in the face of public opposition by parliamentary trickery and in ignorance of it's contents? Just answer me that.

    If it deserves repeal now that we have discovered what those contents are, then it deserves repeal, period, however many attempts it may take to get the job done.

    obviously you have no idea how our health system is dysfunctional. Out of all the other 1st world nations we pay the most for healthcare. Funny thing is we usually have less people and huge costs with a even (sometimes) lower level of health. Tort reform only limits the rights of patients and does little to reign in costs. This nation is not broke, don't know why I keep hearing that from republicans ... well I guess since a democratic president is in office. Largest tax hike ever? Really where do you get this? I mean taxes use to be upwards from 80 percent for some incomes, that was pretty large. I suppose you can tell me why in America health care is so expensive compared to other countries? I mean I guess the savings in several states due to the ACA isn't really that important.

    The VA gets medicine much cheaper than anything else in this country, why? Well the VA has the power to negotiate prices unlike Medicare part D (private medicare), even they have more power than the regular medicare plans. Why is that? Well for one the for-private insurance companies don't control it. I find it very funny how we are the only nation that pays so much more for health care and yet we have less people and millions that don't have it or denied it. Not to mention how they have us all by the balls on what we can get. I use the VA and my wife has to use our insurance and it is a pain in the ass. up until recently she has been suffering horribly due to her allergies and asthma, but luckily just this year we have been able to get her on shots. So instead of the 15000 for them, we only have to pay a little over 100 dollars every 2 months now. I have been waiting years to hear about her getting denied because of a pre-existing condition but now the ACA blocks that. I think the ACA needs fixed but to abolish it would be stupid. Funny how so many of the GOP want that. But I'm the one making stuff up.
  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    Just two things.

    1. If our health care is so terrible (Dysfunctional is your word) compared to the rest of the world, then why does everyone from far away fly to the US for treatment?

    2. If the government is so good at health care and medicare is so good, why is it that my MIL cannot find any ANY doctor that will take her medicare? Great price because no one will treat her. Oh yeah, this is not in some out of the way area...... just the fourth largest city in the US. And NO this is not an isolated case. Your reference to 'several states' with lower rates due to Obamacare, now that is the isolated case.
  • jadeltjadelt Posts: 766
    phobicsquirrel:
    This nation is not broke, don't know why I keep hearing that from republicans ... well I guess since a democratic president is in office.
    What would you say about this family?

    * Annual family income: $21,700
    * Money the family spent: $38,200
    * New debt on the credit card: $16,500
    * Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710

    Would you say they are broke?

    Lets just add 8 zeros......

    * U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
    * Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
    * New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
    * National debt: $14,271,000,000,000

    These were the US stats in 2011... in 2012 we did a little better.... tax revenue was $2.45 trillion but oops the debt went over $16 trillion. Broke ? You tell me . Is that family doing well or are they broke?
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