of course, i did smoke a TON of Vs way back in the day. i think i burned myself out on them. they are inexpensive enough that they were an everyday. i kinda look at them as "just a V"
Which Avo 22...European or the American realease? Agree Avo 787 has similier flavor profile but still not as good as the European release.
kuzi16:
Avo 22 or Davidoff Maduro.
of course, i did smoke a TON of Vs way back in the day. i think i burned myself out on them. they are inexpensive enough that they were an everyday. i kinda look at them as "just a V"
Which Avo 22...European or the American realease? Agree Avo 787 has similier flavor profile but still not as good as the European release.
i liked the american. the 787 is the "same blend" as the 22 (7+8+7=22) and does taste eerily similar to the 22. however it is not the exact tobacco and lacks some of the depth of the 22. imho.
I like to think I have a pretty good palate as far as wine goes; to get there, I spent a lot of time sampling with more knowledgeable friends, I visited a lot of shops and tastings and bought a lot of recommended stuff, too. On a budget, tastings were a great way to go about this. I love a Gewurztraminer and a good Shiraz/Syrah as my go-to wines in White and Red. I also like a lot of Chianti's and Super Tuscan blends. I came to these favorites after a long process.
Is there a way to shorten this process with cigars in a manner easy on the pocketbook? For example, would a sampler of the cigar.com house blends allow me to narrow down and focus-in on the flavor profile I like? How would these characteristics best translate to more premium cigars? Am I better off just sampling some semi-premiums?
I want to avoid being stuck with a bunch of smokes I end up not liking. I also want to avoid limiting myself. I still go back and try a really oaky Cab on occasion, despite usually not caring for them because I know my palate can change and the taste is dependent on food pairings, too. But to start, I would like to quickly identify some go-to cigars and profiles. Thanks.
Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.
I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot. I will smoke anything, though.
get samplers based off of blenders rather than the house brands. (not that those are bad) but blending style makes a huge difference in the cigar world. also do not feel afraid to buy things and then end up not liking them. you can always trade em away here on the forum to others that do like them.
to get a very wide range on blending styles i would pick up 4 cigars: 1) 3x3 by Davidoff. (Kelner blend) they represent a milder muskier style that many enjoy, and they do it on the cheap (unlike any other Davidoff). 2) Don Pepin Garcia Blue. (Don Pepin Garcia Blend) This smoke gets you a very good feel of what the spicier end of the spectrum can offer and a good idea of a typical Nicaraguan cigar has to offer
3) La Flor Dominicana Air Bender. ( Litto Gomez blend) This cigar will give you a feel for a solid medium bodied Dominican can be. there are woody notes and old school licorice notes in there are well. it is unlike any other cigar on the market. 4) Joya de Nicaragua Celebracion. (Dr. Alejandro Martinez Cuenca blend) when smoked at the correct pace, this cigar can show you what Nicaraguan tobacco can be like with less spice. leathery and earthy, it is my go to cigar that i buy by the box.
these blenders are very different and can help you transition and/or decide what other blenders/styles you may like, such as Fernandez, Eiroa, Fuente, etc...
I would agree with Kuzi, that you can find a wider, and clearer, range by comparing different blenders. The difference between a JDN Celebration and a Davidoff are very discernable. Try it. Buy one of each and light them at the same time. Its' the best way I know of. Both are excellent but offer a totally different experience. And although many of the blenders may use tobacco from the same, or similar regions, they all treat the curing , aging, and construction processes in different manners. Its' a wonderful adventure.
I also did something like this in a thread some months back but yours is really good and goes into more detail. Developing ones palate is something that a lot of us don't really think about unless you love the fine art of developing a certain taste. With cigars it opens up a new world just like with food and wine...great thread and should become a "sticky"...well done, sir.
I cant believe that i did not post this here. i wrote it a long time ago but it may help some of the new guys. Im sure a few of you have seen this before. I was gunna link to it on another thread but i couldnt find it. so here ya go:
I am by no means an expert on the topic of cigars but (being a cook and a wanna-be wine connoisseur) I do know a bit about taste. (**edit: its been years since i tapped out this article. i now know way more on cigars than i do of wine. whoda thunk it?)
When you taste food most of the taste comes from smell. All that the human tongue can actually taste is salt, sweet, umami, and bitter. To develop your palate you need to develop you sense of smell. This may seem like a difficult task but it isnt hard. It just takes practice. One thing that helps is knowing what you are looking for.
Like many of you, I do enjoy a glass of wine. since wine is a great parallel to cigars when it comes to taste and so many people are familiar with it i will use it as an example.
I like to taste all the little flavors going on in the wine, but being able to identify them took practice. Here is how I taste wine:
1) Pour glass less than half way full.
2) Swirl and look for impurities (cork from opening) and to release aroma, and took for "legs"*
3) Take a sniff of it. not a deep sniff but several shallow sniffs the way a dog smells things. **
4) Take a small amount in and hold in the mouth
5) Smell again
6) Swallow
When I do this I can smell everything in the wine and identify what is in it.
But, how do I know what to look for?
Good question.
Look up what other people say about the wine. If they say it has a black cherry smell to it, go out and buy a black cherry. (Try it: Blackstone Merlot (i think its still under $10 a bottle) does in fact taste a bit like black cherry) Cut the cherry in half and place it in a wine glass and smell it. Then pour the wine in another glass and smell it. Notice the similarities. After a while you learn to point out taste on your own.
How does this relate to cigars?
Another good question.
Read reviews. If someone says it has a hint of coffee then smell some coffee while smoking a cigar. I recently red a thread here where someone said they could taste Macadamia nuts. Buy that cigar and some macadamia nuts. Smoke the cigar and eat the nuts. Notice how they are the same. How else are you supposed to identify a taste if you dont have a reference point? Basically, you need to learn the common smells and tastes of cigars. (Nutty, pepper, leather, and so on)
Develop a smoke strategy. Much like my wine tasting, I have found a way to taste cigars better then when I first started. I feel the cigar, I look at it closely and I spend a lot of time smelling the cigar pre-smoke. Before I clip, I lick the cap. after lit and while puffing I make sure to blow a bit of that puff out through my nose . All of this helps me understand the cigar better.
Read reviews, buy the flavors mentioned, try the cigar, and decide for yourself. At worst youll enjoy a few good smokes.
that was most of the original document. now a few years on id like to restate how important it is that you learn how to get smoke through the nose. when you get a bit of it through the nose your sense of smell can really go to work for you. You will start to see complexities in cigars that you thought were simple and you may even start to not like cigars you did before. it opens a new world up to you.
i would also like to make a point that if you familiarize yourself with common flavors and tastes in cigars such as Cedar, Coffee, Leather, Earth, Nuts, Sweet, Spice, Pepper, etc, the easier it will be for you to understand cigars. smoking a ton of cigars helps, but if you have no concept of what anise is supposed to taste like then how will you identify it in a cigar? developing your palate is more than about cigars. its about understanding taste and smell in all aspects of your life.
**i thought that i would add this bit by Alex to my thread because he pretty much hit the nail on the head when it came to my cigar journey and the journey of many of you out there.
Alex Svenson:
I have a theory on how a smokers palate progresses over time. Most often they will start by trying and enjoying less intimidating blends. Mild up to medium as they master the art of smoking and the action itself. Drawing, swirling, using the nose. They are not able to differentiate the flavors but rather are able to identify a cigar as one they like or dislike and make some generalizations about the overall flavor but have a hard time picking up individual components. Now the smoker tries ventures into stronger territory, more medium and medium to full bodied cigars. By now he has the basics down on how to smoke and falls in love with all new blends and brands (cursing that he filled his humidor up with all that mild stuff). By now the flavors are more pronounced and through experience, the smoker can more easily identify nuances and things like finish and competing aromas. At this point you know what flavor is, you know what you like and you cant get enough of it. You try everything and really develop a taste for full bodied cigars as you seek out richer and richer flavors. After this stage, you have sworn off mild cigars but then the day comes that you light up a medium or medium to full bodied cigar and you swear it is the best you have ever had. At this time, you realize that the flavor you thought you were detecting was merely the training wheels on the bike. The training wheels are off and you are riding by yourself. You detect all the richness you love in your full bodied blends but in a smooth and non overwhelming format. The lighter body allows allows you palate to zero on literally dozens of aspects in cigars you never thought existed. Now you pick up some rich mild cigars, maybe even stuff you thought you no longer liked and threw out years ago and find new characteristics you never thought the cigar had. You go back to some lesser strength favorites then back to some full bodied. Holy *** you say, you are now pulling even more richness out of the full bodied stuff!! Now you buy a big cabinet humidor, your wife leaves you because you spent your retirement money on cigars and you are really off the races LOL. In all seriousness though, from here a smoker does settle in on what he really likes the most. Could be medium, could be mild and could be full. That said, while the lock in on a strength profile they like, the dont smoke it exclusively. they appreciate some cigars or brands at all strength levels because they have mastered the concept of "flavor". For example, I prefer medium to full or full bodied cigars as my regular smoke of choice but there are some mild and medium smokes in the humi for when the occasion calls for one. Cigars I think have every bit as much flavor as some of my full bodied favorites. I want to go on record now having said all this that this is a major generalization that I think pertains to many smokers but certainly not all and this theory is based solely on my observations over many years. It is also my experience that this progression takes on different forms and different intervals for each person. Some people progress right to full bodied cigars in a matter of weeks and some stay in the initial stages much longer. There are not certainties in this hobby nor rules. Everyone is different. That said, I do believe that the idea of mastering flavor is really the pinnacle of cigar enjoyment. Frankly, it is hard to describe in words. It uses all the senses. For those who may not know what I am talking about, I cant describe for you exactly what it is like, but I will tell you, you will know the day you "get it". It is like an epiphany. You will literally go back and resmoke every cigar you have already tried and it will be like you never smoked it before. It did not happen for me until 2003 really.
... as i said in that epic thread "for me it was in 2008 and i was smoking a Zino Classic." that was the mild cigar that i just happened to pick up.
the other thought that i really wanna highlight here is the last few lines of Alex's post: That said, I do believe that the idea of mastering flavor is really the pinnacle of cigar enjoyment. Frankly, it is hard to describe in words. It uses all the senses.
at some point you will have an understanding of a cigar when you smoke it. it wont just be something you taste. developing your palate is fun and part of it, but there is far more to it than taste.
i would also like to push this from a post later in the thread to the first post:
kuzi16:
Ive been meaning to put these up here for quite some time. I think some of you may already have these.
I cant believe that i did not post this here. i wrote it a long time ago but it may help some of the new guys. Im sure a few of you have seen this before. I was gunna link to it on another thread but i couldnt find it. so here ya go:
I am by no means an expert on the topic of cigars but (being a cook and a wanna-be wine connoisseur) I do know a bit about taste. (**edit: its been years since i tapped out this article. i now know way more on cigars than i do of wine. whoda thunk it?)
When you taste food most of the taste comes from smell. All that the human tongue can actually taste is salt, sweet, umami, and bitter. To develop your palate you need to develop you sense of smell. This may seem like a difficult task but it isnt hard. It just takes practice. One thing that helps is knowing what you are looking for.
Like many of you, I do enjoy a glass of wine. since wine is a great parallel to cigars when it comes to taste and so many people are familiar with it i will use it as an example.
I like to taste all the little flavors going on in the wine, but being able to identify them took practice. Here is how I taste wine:
1) Pour glass less than half way full.
2) Swirl and look for impurities (cork from opening) and to release aroma, and took for "legs"*
3) Take a sniff of it. not a deep sniff but several shallow sniffs the way a dog smells things. **
4) Take a small amount in and hold in the mouth
5) Smell again
6) Swallow
When I do this I can smell everything in the wine and identify what is in it.
But, how do I know what to look for?
Good question.
Look up what other people say about the wine. If they say it has a black cherry smell to it, go out and buy a black cherry. (Try it: Blackstone Merlot (i think its still under $10 a bottle) does in fact taste a bit like black cherry) Cut the cherry in half and place it in a wine glass and smell it. Then pour the wine in another glass and smell it. Notice the similarities. After a while you learn to point out taste on your own.
How does this relate to cigars?
Another good question.
Read reviews. If someone says it has a hint of coffee then smell some coffee while smoking a cigar. I recently red a thread here where someone said they could taste Macadamia nuts. Buy that cigar and some macadamia nuts. Smoke the cigar and eat the nuts. Notice how they are the same. How else are you supposed to identify a taste if you dont have a reference point? Basically, you need to learn the common smells and tastes of cigars. (Nutty, pepper, leather, and so on)
Develop a smoke strategy. Much like my wine tasting, I have found a way to taste cigars better then when I first started. I feel the cigar, I look at it closely and I spend a lot of time smelling the cigar pre-smoke. Before I clip, I lick the cap. after lit and while puffing I make sure to blow a bit of that puff out through my nose . All of this helps me understand the cigar better.
Read reviews, buy the flavors mentioned, try the cigar, and decide for yourself. At worst youll enjoy a few good smokes.
that was most of the original document. now a few years on id like to restate how important it is that you learn how to get smoke through the nose. when you get a bit of it through the nose your sense of smell can really go to work for you. You will start to see complexities in cigars that you thought were simple and you may even start to not like cigars you did before. it opens a new world up to you.
i would also like to make a point that if you familiarize yourself with common flavors and tastes in cigars such as Cedar, Coffee, Leather, Earth, Nuts, Sweet, Spice, Pepper, etc, the easier it will be for you to understand cigars. smoking a ton of cigars helps, but if you have no concept of what anise is supposed to taste like then how will you identify it in a cigar? developing your palate is more than about cigars. its about understanding taste and smell in all aspects of your life.
**i thought that i would add this bit by Alex to my thread because he pretty much hit the nail on the head when it came to my cigar journey and the journey of many of you out there.
Alex Svenson:
I have a theory on how a smokers palate progresses over time. Most often they will start by trying and enjoying less intimidating blends. Mild up to medium as they master the art of smoking and the action itself. Drawing, swirling, using the nose. They are not able to differentiate the flavors but rather are able to identify a cigar as one they like or dislike and make some generalizations about the overall flavor but have a hard time picking up individual components. Now the smoker tries ventures into stronger territory, more medium and medium to full bodied cigars. By now he has the basics down on how to smoke and falls in love with all new blends and brands (cursing that he filled his humidor up with all that mild stuff). By now the flavors are more pronounced and through experience, the smoker can more easily identify nuances and things like finish and competing aromas. At this point you know what flavor is, you know what you like and you cant get enough of it. You try everything and really develop a taste for full bodied cigars as you seek out richer and richer flavors. After this stage, you have sworn off mild cigars but then the day comes that you light up a medium or medium to full bodied cigar and you swear it is the best you have ever had. At this time, you realize that the flavor you thought you were detecting was merely the training wheels on the bike. The training wheels are off and you are riding by yourself. You detect all the richness you love in your full bodied blends but in a smooth and non overwhelming format. The lighter body allows allows you palate to zero on literally dozens of aspects in cigars you never thought existed. Now you pick up some rich mild cigars, maybe even stuff you thought you no longer liked and threw out years ago and find new characteristics you never thought the cigar had. You go back to some lesser strength favorites then back to some full bodied. Holy *** you say, you are now pulling even more richness out of the full bodied stuff!! Now you buy a big cabinet humidor, your wife leaves you because you spent your retirement money on cigars and you are really off the races LOL. In all seriousness though, from here a smoker does settle in on what he really likes the most. Could be medium, could be mild and could be full. That said, while the lock in on a strength profile they like, the dont smoke it exclusively. they appreciate some cigars or brands at all strength levels because they have mastered the concept of "flavor". For example, I prefer medium to full or full bodied cigars as my regular smoke of choice but there are some mild and medium smokes in the humi for when the occasion calls for one. Cigars I think have every bit as much flavor as some of my full bodied favorites. I want to go on record now having said all this that this is a major generalization that I think pertains to many smokers but certainly not all and this theory is based solely on my observations over many years. It is also my experience that this progression takes on different forms and different intervals for each person. Some people progress right to full bodied cigars in a matter of weeks and some stay in the initial stages much longer. There are not certainties in this hobby nor rules. Everyone is different. That said, I do believe that the idea of mastering flavor is really the pinnacle of cigar enjoyment. Frankly, it is hard to describe in words. It uses all the senses. For those who may not know what I am talking about, I cant describe for you exactly what it is like, but I will tell you, you will know the day you "get it". It is like an epiphany. You will literally go back and resmoke every cigar you have already tried and it will be like you never smoked it before. It did not happen for me until 2003 really.
... as i said in that epic thread "for me it was in 2008 and i was smoking a Zino Classic." that was the mild cigar that i just happened to pick up.
the other thought that i really wanna highlight here is the last few lines of Alex's post: That said, I do believe that the idea of mastering flavor is really the pinnacle of cigar enjoyment. Frankly, it is hard to describe in words. It uses all the senses.
at some point you will have an understanding of a cigar when you smoke it. it wont just be something you taste. developing your palate is fun and part of it, but there is far more to it than taste.
i would also like to push this from a post later in the thread to the first post:
kuzi16:
Ive been meaning to put these up here for quite some time. I think some of you may already have these.
*edit on 9-19-09
**edit on 1-5-11
Bump
Fantastic info here.
Great reading for "newbs" and "vets" alike.
Comments
but i do love it.
of course, i did smoke a TON of Vs way back in the day. i think i burned myself out on them. they are inexpensive enough that they were an everyday. i kinda look at them as "just a V"
as far as the 22 goes try the 787. very similar blend.
Is there a way to shorten this process with cigars in a manner easy on the pocketbook? For example, would a sampler of the cigar.com house blends allow me to narrow down and focus-in on the flavor profile I like? How would these characteristics best translate to more premium cigars? Am I better off just sampling some semi-premiums?
I want to avoid being stuck with a bunch of smokes I end up not liking. I also want to avoid limiting myself. I still go back and try a really oaky Cab on occasion, despite usually not caring for them because I know my palate can change and the taste is dependent on food pairings, too. But to start, I would like to quickly identify some go-to cigars and profiles. Thanks.
I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot. I will smoke anything, though.
also do not feel afraid to buy things and then end up not liking them. you can always trade em away here on the forum to others that do like them.
to get a very wide range on blending styles i would pick up 4 cigars:
1) 3x3 by Davidoff. (Kelner blend) they represent a milder muskier style that many enjoy, and they do it on the cheap (unlike any other Davidoff).
2) Don Pepin Garcia Blue. (Don Pepin Garcia Blend) This smoke gets you a very good feel of what the spicier end of the spectrum can offer and a good idea of a typical Nicaraguan cigar has to offer
3) La Flor Dominicana Air Bender. ( Litto Gomez blend) This cigar will give you a feel for a solid medium bodied Dominican can be. there are woody notes and old school licorice notes in there are well. it is unlike any other cigar on the market.
4) Joya de Nicaragua Celebracion. (Dr. Alejandro Martinez Cuenca blend) when smoked at the correct pace, this cigar can show you what Nicaraguan tobacco can be like with less spice. leathery and earthy, it is my go to cigar that i buy by the box.
these blenders are very different and can help you transition and/or decide what other blenders/styles you may like, such as Fernandez, Eiroa, Fuente, etc...
hope that helps
I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot. I will smoke anything, though.
Great reading for "newbs" and "vets" alike.
* I have a new address as of 3/24/18 *