Your "quotes" are great. It's a "Christian" news site so it's "not" relevant. Preaching "to" the choir. You are already "a" believer in your "point" of view, therefore "you" go to sites that "back" up your "point" of view also, "correct" Laker? You are such a "double" standard that "I" have a tough time reply"ing" to your "posts".
Here is what the site says about itself...
Reason for Being
There is a space that must be filled.
It hangs in the distance between what is taken for granted,
or believed by convention, and what may be imagined or feared.
It is a gap to fill by finding facts and bringing them into true perspective.
In American and world politics, this endeavor often challenges conventional worldviews and many shut their minds,
unwilling to venture beyond the safe boundaries of the known.
The brave, who dare to look, will catch glimpses of disturbing images
lurking in dark corners. Those who seek to fill the gap become dangerous
to those whose true agenda would otherwise remain comfortably obscured,
as they seek and gain power.
But freedom of speech exists for a reason.
Gulag Bound follows the lead of those who have won and protected our
Sovereignty and our liberty by finding and telling the truth,
then devoting ourselves to it.
We respect our readers by letting them know what we find, examine,
and discuss, even if discomforting or provocative.
You can assess for yourself and assess us too,
our intention, to present fact as fact and at times, theory, conjecture, and speculation,
as just what they are, too.
Controversy and uncertainty are hardly excuses
for failing to investigate and communicate.
And beyond this, knowledge requires action.
Our ultimate objective then, is to present solutions.
History teaches there are solutions that are tried and true.
At this time, we would show it as fact that Marxist, fascist, and globalist ambitions
are a clear and very present threat to our authentic America.
This sure seems like a political news site rather then a Christian one.
Laker, my point in bringing up Kosovo and Bosnia wasn't to be an example of "good" Christian behavior, Gypsy asked for an example of Muslims, anywhere, being killed for being Muslim, which was exactly what was going on there, the "Christian" population was systematically eradicating the muslim population. Here's an idea, how about if we all decide to only be intolerant of the intolerant?
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Laker, my point in bringing up Kosovo and Bosnia wasn't to be an example of "good" Christian behavior, Gypsy asked for an example of Muslims, anywhere, being killed for being Muslim, which was exactly what was going on there, the "Christian" population was systematically eradicating the muslim population. Here's an idea, how about if we all decide to only be intolerant of the intolerant?
Amos Umwhat I owe you an apology. I was reading thru the last few posts , trying to catch up as I went away for the weekend. I was still reacting to what Jet was saying when I made the Kosovo comment because I was under the impression that he was the one who used it making some kind of arguement for Christian values. I do sometimes get all these quotes within quotes screwed up sometimes and end up thinking someone said something which someone else actually said. I apologize.
As for my comments they were directed to Gypsy, nobody else, and I said that. Jet decided to jump in and, I guess defend Gypsy. He made some personal comments about me while ignoring anything else I had written which has become a theme for him. I responded to his comments, and I will ALWAYS respond to comments when they are directed at me, if I feel they are improper. I would expect everybody else here to do the same, just as Amos Umwhat has brought to my attention with this post. Again please accept my apologies Amos.
Kuzi you asked for some links to Islamic speakers, speaking out against radical Muslims etc.? I just saw that question this morning, and I will do a search for some of what I have seen. These were on TV. not in print so I will have to do a bit of digging. I will post whatever I can dig up.
Kuzi you asked for some links to Islamic speakers, speaking out against radical Muslims etc.? I just saw that question this morning, and I will do a search for some of what I have seen. These were on TV. not in print so I will have to do a bit of digging. I will post whatever I can dig up.
good lookin out laker. cant wait to read em.
this thread started out as questioning if/where good muslims exist. once linked by laker i think it will be safe to say that we have documentation that there are good muslims. i believed this from the get-go; this is no surprise to me.
the next question is: why are the good muslims not speaking up? is it because there are not enough of them? or out of fear? maybe unseen forces? i dont think any of us will ever know, or understand. im not sure its worth my time to debate, maybe someone else's time, but not mine
but as far as im concerned, this thread has run its course for me. ill be watching for the links but i doubt ill be posting more here.
Kuzi you asked for some links to Islamic speakers, speaking out against radical Muslims etc.? I just saw that question this morning, and I will do a search for some of what I have seen. These were on TV. not in print so I will have to do a bit of digging. I will post whatever I can dig up.
good lookin out laker. cant wait to read em.
this thread started out as questioning if/where good muslims exist. once linked by laker i think it will be safe to say that we have documentation that there are good muslims. i believed this from the get-go; this is no surprise to me.
the next question is: why are the good muslims not speaking up? is it because there are not enough of them? or out of fear? maybe unseen forces? i dont think any of us will ever know, or understand. im not sure its worth my time to debate, maybe someone else's time, but not mine
but as far as im concerned, this thread has run its course for me. ill be watching for the links but i doubt ill be posting more here.
Kuzi I started a new thread for this one because I think it may get a lot of responses and was a rather large departure from this thread. I have provided several links and will contiue to do so if you want more of them.
I would be interested in what some of you think makes a good muslim or good christian or good whatever ...serious opinions please.
Good question Gene. I am not what you would call a religious person. I do not go to church or follow any organized religions' doctrine.
I do remember as a child going to Sunday School that one thing always stuck with me. The golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (I apologize if I have not quoted that exactly)
I have always strived to be what I consider a good person.
I believe (somewhat illogically I know) that if everyone lived by that one rule... most of the other stuff would work itself out.
I also believe that organized religion of all kinds is the cause of most of the worlds problems, and have been for a long time. Religion seems to me, to be the ultimate divider.
I would be interested in what some of you think makes a good muslim or good christian or good whatever ...serious opinions please.
This is a question that is always subject (and historically subjected to) endless opinion, and therein lies the root of most of mankinds problems.
I've studied various religions, rather casually and at my own pace, but extensively throughout my lifetime, and I see one factor that is common to all, or nearly all, of them. You have a prophet, or a wise man, he lives, he teaches his truth, which is usually subject to his culture, but, truth nonetheless, and then he dies with a following. Soon after his death, his followers struggle for power, and change the message of truth to one of convenience to their own retention of power.
The classic examples abound in western history. For example, the pope, (one of the Innocents, I believe) was lacking sufficient influence in southern France, and sent his soldiers to subdue and demand allegiance and tribute from the locals. His general found there the Cathar's, a different Christian sect that followed the actual teachings of Christ with a much greater fidelity than most catholics, and reported this to the pope. The pope demanded their allegiance and instructed his general to kill all who would not convert. The report from the general came back that these people lived alongside many catholics, and it was impossible to tell the Cathars from the Catholics, and he was loathe to kill "true believers". The popes famous answer: "Kill them all, God will know his own".
So, a "good" Christian follows the teachings of Christ, rather than the prejudices of his own selfishness, or what is convenient for the political use of the church leaders.
The same thing exists in Islam. If you read the Quran, and the history of Muhammed, you find that Muhammed believed that Christians and Jews were given their own teachings, and that as long as they showed faith in those, muslims were to respect that. In fact, muslims are told by muhammed to read and learn "The Book" of the Christians and Jews. There are instances of taking power over a certain area and forcing conversion, but these were originally limited specific instances, not meant to be worldwide conversion by force.
What we see today in Islam, at least what makes the news, is, in my opinion, as much Islam as the works of the Ku Kux Klan were Christian in nature.
I remember a quote, I think it was attributed to Ghandi, who said: "I love your Christ, your Christians not so much." (at least that was the gist of it)
So, for me, a "good Christian" or a "good Muslim", or Buddhist or gnostic or hindu et al is one who seeks inwardly for that spiritual truth that is the light of God shining truth within their own soul and then reflects that light in their behavior for the world to see and learn from. If this "light within" idea is appealing to you, I suggest reading as much as you can about Gnosticism, which can be found buried within all the major religions. Hope this helps.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I would be interested in what some of you think makes a good muslim or good christian or good whatever ...serious opinions please.
This is a question that is always subject (and historically subjected to) endless opinion, and therein lies the root of most of mankinds problems.
I've studied various religions, rather casually and at my own pace, but extensively throughout my lifetime, and I see one factor that is common to all, or nearly all, of them. You have a prophet, or a wise man, he lives, he teaches his truth, which is usually subject to his culture, but, truth nonetheless, and then he dies with a following. Soon after his death, his followers struggle for power, and change the message of truth to one of convenience to their own retention of power.
The classic examples abound in western history. For example, the pope, (one of the Innocents, I believe) was lacking sufficient influence in southern France, and sent his soldiers to subdue and demand allegiance and tribute from the locals. His general found there the Cathar's, a different Christian sect that followed the actual teachings of Christ with a much greater fidelity than most catholics, and reported this to the pope. The pope demanded their allegiance and instructed his general to kill all who would not convert. The report from the general came back that these people lived alongside many catholics, and it was impossible to tell the Cathars from the Catholics, and he was loathe to kill "true believers". The popes famous answer: "Kill them all, God will know his own".
So, a "good" Christian follows the teachings of Christ, rather than the prejudices of his own selfishness, or what is convenient for the political use of the church leaders.
The same thing exists in Islam. If you read the Quran, and the history of Muhammed, you find that Muhammed believed that Christians and Jews were given their own teachings, and that as long as they showed faith in those, muslims were to respect that. In fact, muslims are told by muhammed to read and learn "The Book" of the Christians and Jews. There are instances of taking power over a certain area and forcing conversion, but these were originally limited specific instances, not meant to be worldwide conversion by force.
What we see today in Islam, at least what makes the news, is, in my opinion, as much Islam as the works of the Ku Kux Klan were Christian in nature.
I remember a quote, I think it was attributed to Ghandi, who said: "I love your Christ, your Christians not so much." (at least that was the gist of it)
So, for me, a "good Christian" or a "good Muslim", or Buddhist or gnostic or hindu et al is one who seeks inwardly for that spiritual truth that is the light of God shining truth within their own soul and then reflects that light in their behavior for the world to see and learn from. If this "light within" idea is appealing to you, I suggest reading as much as you can about Gnosticism, which can be found buried within all the major religions. Hope this helps.
This is my philosophy, though stated better than I could have put it. I don't follow any religion, but do pray to a kind and loving God every day. He's the only reason I'm still here.
I would be interested in what some of you think makes a good muslim or good christian or good whatever ...serious opinions please.
Good question Gene. I am not what you would call a religious person. I do not go to church or follow any organized religions' doctrine.
I do remember as a child going to Sunday School that one thing always stuck with me. The golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (I apologize if I have not quoted that exactly)
I have always strived to be what I consider a good person.
I believe (somewhat illogically I know) that if everyone lived by that one rule... most of the other stuff would work itself out.
I also believe that organized religion of all kinds is the cause of most of the worlds problems, and have been for a long time. Religion seems to me, to be the ultimate divider.
I agree Laker. The "guise" of religion has caused all sorts of problems in the world , past and present.
I would be interested in what some of you think makes a good muslim or good christian or good whatever ...serious opinions please.
This is a question that is always subject (and historically subjected to) endless opinion, and therein lies the root of most of mankinds problems.
I've studied various religions, rather casually and at my own pace, but extensively throughout my lifetime, and I see one factor that is common to all, or nearly all, of them. You have a prophet, or a wise man, he lives, he teaches his truth, which is usually subject to his culture, but, truth nonetheless, and then he dies with a following. Soon after his death, his followers struggle for power, and change the message of truth to one of convenience to their own retention of power.
The classic examples abound in western history. For example, the pope, (one of the Innocents, I believe) was lacking sufficient influence in southern France, and sent his soldiers to subdue and demand allegiance and tribute from the locals. His general found there the Cathar's, a different Christian sect that followed the actual teachings of Christ with a much greater fidelity than most catholics, and reported this to the pope. The pope demanded their allegiance and instructed his general to kill all who would not convert. The report from the general came back that these people lived alongside many catholics, and it was impossible to tell the Cathars from the Catholics, and he was loathe to kill "true believers". The popes famous answer: "Kill them all, God will know his own".
So, a "good" Christian follows the teachings of Christ, rather than the prejudices of his own selfishness, or what is convenient for the political use of the church leaders.
The same thing exists in Islam. If you read the Quran, and the history of Muhammed, you find that Muhammed believed that Christians and Jews were given their own teachings, and that as long as they showed faith in those, muslims were to respect that. In fact, muslims are told by muhammed to read and learn "The Book" of the Christians and Jews. There are instances of taking power over a certain area and forcing conversion, but these were originally limited specific instances, not meant to be worldwide conversion by force.
What we see today in Islam, at least what makes the news, is, in my opinion, as much Islam as the works of the Ku Kux Klan were Christian in nature.
I remember a quote, I think it was attributed to Ghandi, who said: "I love your Christ, your Christians not so much." (at least that was the gist of it)
So, for me, a "good Christian" or a "good Muslim", or Buddhist or gnostic or hindu et al is one who seeks inwardly for that spiritual truth that is the light of God shining truth within their own soul and then reflects that light in their behavior for the world to see and learn from. If this "light within" idea is appealing to you, I suggest reading as much as you can about Gnosticism, which can be found buried within all the major religions. Hope this helps.
A good analysis . I have read quite a bit about Gnosticism and find it very interesting , as I do some of the other "ancient ways" for lack of a better term.
I have often wondered why society as a majority feels one must be "religious " to be a good person. Is it this religious belief in a superior being waiting for us when we pass on that keeps us from being morally and ethically corrupt ? Or , is humankind naturally good or bad ?
Niccolo Machiavelli wrote in the 16th century I believe : " The distance is so great between how we live and how we ought to live that he who abandons what is done for what ought to be done learns his ruin rather than his preservation ; because a man who wants to make a profession of goodness in everything is bound to come to ruin among so many who are not good. "
I find that to be true quite a bit (and i would bet most of you have seen this as well) in the workplace and business world . It always seems the most ruthless and coniving are the ones on the fast track to promotions etc. .
I guess what I'm asking is must one be veiled in a religion of some and/or any sort to be a good man or woman ? Or do we use religion as a measuring stick for how we THINK we are expected to act and live and what is expected of us from our fellow man ?
gmill880, the collection of works from which the quote I'm using below is found, "Why I am not a Christian", by Bertrand Russell, is an attempt to answer the very question you're asking. Mr. Russell, an avowed atheist, does an admirable job of it. I don't personally agree with him on all points, but, given the excesses the religious community has imposed one can certainly understand how he arrived at his conclusions.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Comments
Reason for Being
There is a space that must be filled. It hangs in the distance between what is taken for granted, or believed by convention, and what may be imagined or feared. It is a gap to fill by finding facts and bringing them into true perspective. In American and world politics, this endeavor often challenges conventional worldviews and many shut their minds, unwilling to venture beyond the safe boundaries of the known. The brave, who dare to look, will catch glimpses of disturbing images lurking in dark corners. Those who seek to fill the gap become dangerous to those whose true agenda would otherwise remain comfortably obscured, as they seek and gain power. But freedom of speech exists for a reason. Gulag Bound follows the lead of those who have won and protected our Sovereignty and our liberty by finding and telling the truth, then devoting ourselves to it. We respect our readers by letting them know what we find, examine, and discuss, even if discomforting or provocative. You can assess for yourself and assess us too, our intention, to present fact as fact and at times, theory, conjecture, and speculation, as just what they are, too. Controversy and uncertainty are hardly excuses for failing to investigate and communicate. And beyond this, knowledge requires action. Our ultimate objective then, is to present solutions. History teaches there are solutions that are tried and true. At this time, we would show it as fact that Marxist, fascist, and globalist ambitions are a clear and very present threat to our authentic America.
This sure seems like a political news site rather then a Christian one.
Here's an idea, how about if we all decide to only be intolerant of the intolerant?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
As for my comments they were directed to Gypsy, nobody else, and I said that. Jet decided to jump in and, I guess defend Gypsy. He made some personal comments about me while ignoring anything else I had written which has become a theme for him. I responded to his comments, and I will ALWAYS respond to comments when they are directed at me, if I feel they are improper. I would expect everybody else here to do the same, just as Amos Umwhat has brought to my attention with this post. Again please accept my apologies Amos.
Kuzi you asked for some links to Islamic speakers, speaking out against radical Muslims etc.? I just saw that question this morning, and I will do a search for some of what I have seen. These were on TV. not in print so I will have to do a bit of digging. I will post whatever I can dig up.
this thread started out as questioning if/where good muslims exist. once linked by laker i think it will be safe to say that we have documentation that there are good muslims. i believed this from the get-go; this is no surprise to me.
the next question is:
why are the good muslims not speaking up?
is it because there are not enough of them?
or out of fear?
maybe unseen forces?
i dont think any of us will ever know, or understand. im not sure its worth my time to debate, maybe someone else's time, but not mine
but as far as im concerned, this thread has run its course for me. ill be watching for the links but i doubt ill be posting more here.
edit: LINKED
thanks.
I do remember as a child going to Sunday School that one thing always stuck with me. The golden Rule. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. (I apologize if I have not quoted that exactly)
I have always strived to be what I consider a good person.
I believe (somewhat illogically I know) that if everyone lived by that one rule... most of the other stuff would work itself out.
I also believe that organized religion of all kinds is the cause of most of the worlds problems, and have been for a long time. Religion seems to me, to be the ultimate divider.
I've studied various religions, rather casually and at my own pace, but extensively throughout my lifetime, and I see one factor that is common to all, or nearly all, of them. You have a prophet, or a wise man, he lives, he teaches his truth, which is usually subject to his culture, but, truth nonetheless, and then he dies with a following. Soon after his death, his followers struggle for power, and change the message of truth to one of convenience to their own retention of power.
The classic examples abound in western history. For example, the pope, (one of the Innocents, I believe) was lacking sufficient influence in southern France, and sent his soldiers to subdue and demand allegiance and tribute from the locals. His general found there the Cathar's, a different Christian sect that followed the actual teachings of Christ with a much greater fidelity than most catholics, and reported this to the pope. The pope demanded their allegiance and instructed his general to kill all who would not convert. The report from the general came back that these people lived alongside many catholics, and it was impossible to tell the Cathars from the Catholics, and he was loathe to kill "true believers". The popes famous answer: "Kill them all, God will know his own".
So, a "good" Christian follows the teachings of Christ, rather than the prejudices of his own selfishness, or what is convenient for the political use of the church leaders.
The same thing exists in Islam. If you read the Quran, and the history of Muhammed, you find that Muhammed believed that Christians and Jews were given their own teachings, and that as long as they showed faith in those, muslims were to respect that. In fact, muslims are told by muhammed to read and learn "The Book" of the Christians and Jews. There are instances of taking power over a certain area and forcing conversion, but these were originally limited specific instances, not meant to be worldwide conversion by force.
What we see today in Islam, at least what makes the news, is, in my opinion, as much Islam as the works of the Ku Kux Klan were Christian in nature.
I remember a quote, I think it was attributed to Ghandi, who said: "I love your Christ, your Christians not so much." (at least that was the gist of it)
So, for me, a "good Christian" or a "good Muslim", or Buddhist or gnostic or hindu et al is one who seeks inwardly for that spiritual truth that is the light of God shining truth within their own soul and then reflects that light in their behavior for the world to see and learn from. If this "light within" idea is appealing to you, I suggest reading as much as you can about Gnosticism, which can be found buried within all the major religions. Hope this helps.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I agree Laker. The "guise" of religion has caused all sorts of problems in the world , past and present.
A good analysis . I have read quite a bit about Gnosticism and find it very interesting , as I do some of the other "ancient ways" for lack of a better term.
I have often wondered why society as a majority feels one must be "religious " to be a good person. Is it this religious belief in a superior being waiting for us when we pass on that keeps us from being morally and ethically corrupt ? Or , is humankind naturally good or bad ?
Niccolo Machiavelli wrote in the 16th century I believe : " The distance is so great between how we live and how we ought to live that he who abandons what is done for what ought to be done learns his ruin rather than his preservation ; because a man who wants to make a profession of goodness in everything is bound to come to ruin among so many who are not good. "
I find that to be true quite a bit (and i would bet most of you have seen this as well) in the workplace and business world . It always seems the most ruthless and coniving are the ones on the fast track to promotions etc. .
I guess what I'm asking is must one be veiled in a religion of some and/or any sort to be a good man or woman ? Or do we use religion as a measuring stick for how we THINK we are expected to act and live and what is expected of us from our fellow man ?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain