Daily fight for liberty thread

wwestern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy2XWvAIV54

JonathanE

THAT is freakin' hilarious. The news media is so darn liberal that I tend to like anyone that they don't like! ...but hiding someone who is in plain sight?? That goes to a whole 'nuther level! Usually the media just goes mud slinging against people they don't like but they're so scared of this guy that they'll scarcely show his face!! Awesome!!

JDE

Amos_Umwhat

Saw that! First to admit, I love Ron Paul. At least someone acknowledges he exists, try to find Gary Johnson

xmacro

I'm gonna catch a few flames for this, and might even get Vulchor or Pheebs to agree with me . . . (sorry, threw up in my mouth there) . . . but I really don't like Ron Paul - he's the Obama of the Right. He's an idealogue who's sincere in his beliefs and unwavering, but who's ideas will cause an immense amount of harm

Like it or not, the US is the world's lone superpower, the only country that dictators fear, because we're the only ones with a large enough military to wage war against them, either openly or covertly, and we're the only ones with an economy that's dominant enough to put pressure on regimes or their allies (eg - Iran - we have no business dealings with them, but we can pressure their business partners to choose between us or them).

No other country can do what the US does; to withdraw from the world and preach Isolationism is what led to WWI/II; the US is the worlds best and oftentimes, only, stabilizing force.

EDIT - and, like Michelle Bachmann, I think he stands a chance of winning the primary, but almost zero chance of winning the general election; see Sharron Angle/Christine O'Donnel for references

Amos_Umwhat

Interesting, I think Bachmann has a chance of winning the primary, but not the election, and while I might privately agree with her on many things, they aren't things that make good public policy.

xmacro

Amos Umwhat:

Interesting, I think Bachmann has a chance of winning the primary, but not the election, and while I might privately agree with her on many things, they aren't things that make good public policy.

My thoughts exactly

kuzi16

xmacro:

No other country can do what the US does; to withdraw from the world and preach Isolationism is what led to WWI/II;

i agree and disagree with this. yes we are the only country that can do that, however, we still do waste a ton of stuff in the military. like all government spending, there is room for improvement.

kuzi16

wwestern:

John Stewart on media ignoring Ron Paul

best clip from that show in a while.

BigT06

kuzi16:

wwestern:

John Stewart on media ignoring Ron Paul

best clip from that show in a while.

Great clip. Watched it several times in a row.

Amos_Umwhat

kuzi16:

xmacro:

No other country can do what the US does; to withdraw from the world and preach Isolationism is what led to WWI/II;

i agree and disagree with this. yes we are the only country that can do that, however, we still do waste a ton of stuff in the military. like all government spending, there is room for improvement.

The old saying; "an army marches on its stomach", is in need of resurrection here. We can't afford to be the world's policeman, absolute power corrupts...etc. I guess Admiral Mullen put it best, I'm paraphrasing; bankruptcy is the greatest threat to national security.

Vulchor

Suprise here Macro----we disagree again. I like Ron Paul. I voted for Ron Paul in the primary 4 years ago, and will do so again this year I think. I like a ton of his ideas, and am with him on the isolationist ideas, much of his fiscal policy, ect. He is the best thing for me in the Republican Party (which I used to support and still am a member of) since Pat Buchanan dropped out

As a side note, I think our days as the only "superpower" are over. We like to feel that way, and it may still technically be true but by a much smaller margin. The US is not the same "city on a hill" it once was, and this economic downturn is proof of that. The economy is also not going to "turn around" any time soon, because there is no way for it to turn. Obamas failure to see that and Bushs push on class warfare has ensured our place as a big power----but not THE power any longer. I think Ron Paul also realzies this and realizes that the "global economy" we keep pushing (he and I differ on why we have such a global economy, granted) is a reason for this failure------more than just a simple bailout or bank failure in the U.S.....which is the way most citizens see it.

kuzi16

Vulchor:

Suprise here Macro----we disagree again. I like Ron Paul. I voted for Ron Paul in the primary 4 years ago, and will do so again this year I think. I like a ton of his ideas, and am with him on the isolationist ideas, much of his fiscal policy, ect. He is the best thing for me in the Republican Party (which I used to support and still am a member of) since Pat Buchanan dropped out

As a side note, I think our days as the only "superpower" are over. We like to feel that way, and it may still technically be true but by a much smaller margin. The US is not the same "city on a hill" it once was, and this economic downturn is proof of that. The economy is also not going to "turn around" any time soon, because there is no way for it to turn. Obamas failure to see that and Bushs push on class warfare has ensured our place as a big power----but not THE power any longer. I think Ron Paul also realzies this and realizes that the "global economy" we keep pushing (he and I differ on why we have such a global economy, granted) is a reason for this failure------more than just a simple bailout or bank failure in the U.S.....which is the way most citizens see it.

oh holy crap.

i agree. (well... with enough that im not making an issue of the minor disagreement) but still.


what is this world coming to?

Vulchor

Its the end of the world as we know it------and Kuz, I feel fiiiiiiiiiine.

phobicsquirrel

xmacro:

I'm gonna catch a few flames for this, and might even get Vulchor or Pheebs to agree with me . . . (sorry, threw up in my mouth there) . . . but I really don't like Ron Paul - he's the Obama of the Right. He's an idealogue who's sincere in his beliefs and unwavering, but who's ideas will cause an immense amount of harm

Like it or not, the US is the world's lone superpower, the only country that dictators fear, because we're the only ones with a large enough military to wage war against them, either openly or covertly, and we're the only ones with an economy that's dominant enough to put pressure on regimes or their allies (eg - Iran - we have no business dealings with them, but we can pressure their business partners to choose between us or them).

No other country can do what the US does; to withdraw from the world and preach Isolationism is what led to WWI/II; the US is the worlds best and oftentimes, only, stabilizing force.

EDIT - and, like Michelle Bachmann, I think he stands a chance of winning the primary, but almost zero chance of winning the general election; see Sharron Angle/Christine O'Donnel for references

...only going to say obama is far, FAR from being liberal.

phobicsquirrel

Vulchor:

Suprise here Macro----we disagree again. I like Ron Paul. I voted for Ron Paul in the primary 4 years ago, and will do so again this year I think. I like a ton of his ideas, and am with him on the isolationist ideas, much of his fiscal policy, ect. He is the best thing for me in the Republican Party (which I used to support and still am a member of) since Pat Buchanan dropped out

As a side note, I think our days as the only "superpower" are over. We like to feel that way, and it may still technically be true but by a much smaller margin. The US is not the same "city on a hill" it once was, and this economic downturn is proof of that. The economy is also not going to "turn around" any time soon, because there is no way for it to turn. Obamas failure to see that and Bushs push on class warfare has ensured our place as a big power----but not THE power any longer. I think Ron Paul also realzies this and realizes that the "global economy" we keep pushing (he and I differ on why we have such a global economy, granted) is a reason for this failure------more than just a simple bailout or bank failure in the U.S.....which is the way most citizens see it.

I will agree that Ron is probably the most intelligent GOP runner. He makes everyone look retarded. Sure he has some good policies which I like.

I also agree with that we are done as being a superpower. In fact we've been on the way out for some time now. Only the thing is, our military. However once china gets a spine and starts to call us out and when all of the huge corporations who we as the USA have giving so much of our money/land/resources leave and move entirely to China or some other place we will be left with toxic land, water, air and a dessicated, even possibly mad max type environment. Unless a regime is put in place like something out of V for Vendetta or Escape from New York.

I just heard that homeland security head talking about giving ceo's special cards so they can bipass security at airports. ....So these people can just go to their jet while us surps have to be grabbed and treated like cattle. GREAT. Thing is, when are people going to wake up and get together. That's the big problem. People are so split and divided we are being slowly boiled to a police state.

phobicsquirrel

..However, even if Ron wins the primary, which I doubt he'll never win election. It seems, at the moment that really the only thing a president can do is ... well nothing when economic recovery is concerned. If the GOP take the WH again, and keep control of the house and maybe take the senate we are going to be even worse off than in 2008. GOP are masters of manipulating messaging and scaring people into their objectives.

Out of the GOP I'd like to see Paul, but the establishment won't let that happen.

wwestern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q9WzCrLuC4

xmacro

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

I'm gonna say the same thing to you that I say to Pheebs when he posts his deluge of "proof" links - don't give me someone elses words/arguments - give me your own. I love to debate, but I love to debate with forum members, not some blog or link or politician who'll never hear my arguments.

Give me your own words, your own arguments, or I won't respond

xmacro

Vulchor:

Suprise here Macro----we disagree again. I like Ron Paul. I voted for Ron Paul in the primary 4 years ago, and will do so again this year I think. I like a ton of his ideas, and am with him on the isolationist ideas, much of his fiscal policy, ect. He is the best thing for me in the Republican Party (which I used to support and still am a member of) since Pat Buchanan dropped out

As a side note, I think our days as the only "superpower" are over. We like to feel that way, and it may still technically be true but by a much smaller margin. The US is not the same "city on a hill" it once was, and this economic downturn is proof of that. The economy is also not going to "turn around" any time soon, because there is no way for it to turn. Obamas failure to see that and Bushs push on class warfare has ensured our place as a big power----but not THE power any longer. I think Ron Paul also realzies this and realizes that the "global economy" we keep pushing (he and I differ on why we have such a global economy, granted) is a reason for this failure------more than just a simple bailout or bank failure in the U.S.....which is the way most citizens see it.

I think fears like this pop up every generation; from the US vs Japan (remember "Japan as No. 1"?) to fears about the US losing to the Soviets, there's a generational fear that the US is losing ground to some newcomer.

I think if the US can't get its financial house in order, it'll go the way of Rome; but if we can reform our taxes/entitlements and reign in our spending, the next century will favor America even more than the last. I still have faith in the US and its ability to slog through and conquer; as Winston Churchill once said, "You can always count on Americans to do the right thing - after they've tried everything else."

phobicsquirrel:

...only going to say obama is far, FAR from being liberal.

I totally disagree Obama is a man of the Left; he's more pragmatic than most, knowing when he's lost, like Cap/Trade, and to try regulation instead of legislation, but he's always been/always will be committed to the Left's ideas of social justice/entitlement/equal outcome

The only difference, as I said, is that he knows when to back off major legislation that's getting bad press and move his agenda under the rader; see Elizabeth Warren/Consumer Bureou/EPA and Lisa Jackson for references

phobicsquirrel:

I will agree that Ron is probably the most intelligent GOP runner. He makes everyone look retarded. Sure he has some good policies which I like.

I also agree with that we are done as being a superpower. In fact we've been on the way out for some time now. Only the thing is, our military. However once china gets a spine and starts to call us out and when all of the huge corporations who we as the USA have giving so much of our money/land/resources leave and move entirely to China or some other place we will be left with toxic land, water, air and a dessicated, even possibly mad max type environment. Unless a regime is put in place like something out of V for Vendetta or Escape from New York.

Same reply to this as I gave to Vulchor

phobicsquirrel:

I just heard that homeland security head talking about giving ceo's special cards so they can bipass security at airports. ....So these people can just go to their jet while us surps have to be grabbed and treated like cattle. GREAT. Thing is, when are people going to wake up and get together. That's the big problem. People are so split and divided we are being slowly boiled to a police state.

I think the airport screenings are ridiculous, and the FAA is looking for some kinda compromise short of dismantling the entire screening bungalow; that said, Bill Gates isn't gonna blow up an airliner (Steve Jobs might, if he finds out the plane software is running flash); there's a certain amount of sense in allowing non-threats to pass through, and I think this category should be expanded more

Amos_Umwhat

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

Thanks for this, I love to hear him. Is the problem that he makes too much sense? Or, has the debate become more about the man than the ideas?

laker1963

xmacro:

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

I'm gonna say the same thing to you that I say to Pheebs when he posts his deluge of "proof" links - don't give me someone elses words/arguments - give me your own. I love to debate, but I love to debate with forum members, not some blog or link or politician who'll never hear my arguments.

Give me your own words, your own arguments, or I won't respond

Not getting into the debate here but reading this response from Xmacro forced me to. You are the man who loves graphs and charts and others quotes, but you won't accept them as arguements from others??? C'mon Xmacro

wwestern

I'm not worried about it Doug. You'll never talk people like marco into doubting the republican party and the way they spread democracy by force. It's ok we need a few of em around to remind us what makes Mr. Paul the stand out amongst the rest.

wwestern

Today is Dr. Paul's birthday and he is fund raising click here to donate.

wwestern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6D3uPLlCu8

xmacro

laker1963:

xmacro:

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

I'm gonna say the same thing to you that I say to Pheebs when he posts his deluge of "proof" links - don't give me someone elses words/arguments - give me your own. I love to debate, but I love to debate with forum members, not some blog or link or politician who'll never hear my arguments.

Give me your own words, your own arguments, or I won't respond

Not getting into the debate here but reading this response from Xmacro forced me to. You are the man who loves graphs and charts and others quotes, but you won't accept them as arguements from others??? C'mon Xmacro

Graphs and charts boil down columns of numbers into convenient pictures; and I always post an explanation/argument to go along with it - I don't just post a single picture or link, say "See, I told you so" and leave it at that.

Vulchor

But you still use said graphs....which are often not factual, but the person who made them's opinion. A think tank can make statistics say anything they want.

xmacro

Vulchor:

But you still use said graphs....which are often not factual, but the person who made them's opinion. A think tank can make statistics say anything they want.

Look at the bottom of the graphs I use - almost always, it's from the IRS or some Gov't agency, or a Gov't report.

Amos_Umwhat

xmacro:

laker1963:

xmacro:

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

I'm gonna say the same thing to you that I say to Pheebs when he posts his deluge of "proof" links - don't give me someone elses words/arguments - give me your own. I love to debate, but I love to debate with forum members, not some blog or link or politician who'll never hear my arguments.

Give me your own words, your own arguments, or I won't respond

Not getting into the debate here but reading this response from Xmacro forced me to. You are the man who loves graphs and charts and others quotes, but you won't accept them as arguements from others??? C'mon Xmacro

Graphs and charts boil down columns of numbers into convenient pictures; and I always post an explanation/argument to go along with it - I don't just post a single picture or link, say "See, I told you so" and leave it at that.

And Wall St. Journal articles are...? Not just to be a pain, but I've read many many WSJ articles you've posted, knowing that I was only reading what Rupert Murdoch paid for, but that it pertained to your position. Just sayin', fair is fair.

wwestern

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqAF-Alc7CM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGUcUuMEXVc

xmacro

Amos Umwhat:

xmacro:

laker1963:

xmacro:

wwestern:

Ron Paul tells Xmarco and the status quo to suck it.

I'm gonna say the same thing to you that I say to Pheebs when he posts his deluge of "proof" links - don't give me someone elses words/arguments - give me your own. I love to debate, but I love to debate with forum members, not some blog or link or politician who'll never hear my arguments.

Give me your own words, your own arguments, or I won't respond

Not getting into the debate here but reading this response from Xmacro forced me to. You are the man who loves graphs and charts and others quotes, but you won't accept them as arguements from others??? C'mon Xmacro

Graphs and charts boil down columns of numbers into convenient pictures; and I always post an explanation/argument to go along with it - I don't just post a single picture or link, say "See, I told you so" and leave it at that.

And Wall St. Journal articles are...? Not just to be a pain, but I've read many many WSJ articles you've posted, knowing that I was only reading what Rupert Murdoch paid for, but that it pertained to your position. Just sayin', fair is fair.

*facepalm* damn, read up on something before posting. WSJ is one of the largest newspapers in circulation, winner many journalistic awards (33 Pulitzers), and you say it's a propaganda rag because someone on the Left told you that you should hate, owns it?

The Left is mad at Murdoch because he owns the a paper that puts the NYT to shame, both in circulation, and in being able to pay its bills. While the Old Gray Lady, Huffington Post, and Washington Post (read: the standard progressive papers) is/are drowning, the WSJ is still profitable and expanding - but oh, because it's owned by the same guy who owns Fox, it MUST be a propaganda rag, paid for by Murdoch? I suppose Murdoch is telling the over 50,000 journalists what to write everyday?

The hatred for the WSJ, Fox, and all things Murdoch is a conniption of the Left that I thought you of all people would be above. The WSJ is a reputable paper with the largest circulation in the entire US, but because the owner of the subsidiary that owns it is a conservative, it MUST be under his sway? That he personally dictates what the paper prints? Give me a break - if you had an ounce of sense in this, you'd know that News Corp. is hands-off with the Journal; they don't tell them what to do, what stories to cover, or how to operate - the Journal's editorial board leans conservative; they aren't told to do anything by anyone, it's one of the few papers in the US that doesn't have a Progressive bent

EDIT - and before someone tries "well, that UK tabloid is owned by him" - think a little. You really think the CEO of a multinational corporation, with over 50,000 journalists would go around ordering the hacking of a dead girls phone, or is it more likely one editor who went too far on her own?

wwestern

How's that red kool aid marco? Seems a little bitter to me. If you like to put on your blinders and just run around yelling "TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRATS" then have at it. The problem is your side (at least the part of it you claim has a chance) will just continue to spend. Also I'm tired of hearing a damn death tally every month, knowing widows and children without daddy's are left only to lean on the system you hate so much.