God...Selfless or Selfish
Vulchor
Posts: 4,848 ✭✭✭✭
I will preface by saying this is a debate or discussion, so please dont have every post disagreeing with me be about my personal beliefs. I will share them when asked, but alot of the time on here I use threads to plays devils adovate or open a dialogue
MY question, or perhaps statement is that I was thinking the other day how selfish god seems to be. Mainly, the Christian god, or Jesus fellow, whatever we want to say. I cannot imagine how someone would be received if their whole shtick was worship me, follow me, believe in me, dont question me, my way is always right, I deciide wright and wrong, ect. To get to heaven, as many people, all you have to do is accept this guy as your savior. So if you are rotten to other people, self centered, ect. thats ok---just believe in the holiness of this egomaniac? If this guy were around today we would call him a bully or a dictator.
MY question, or perhaps statement is that I was thinking the other day how selfish god seems to be. Mainly, the Christian god, or Jesus fellow, whatever we want to say. I cannot imagine how someone would be received if their whole shtick was worship me, follow me, believe in me, dont question me, my way is always right, I deciide wright and wrong, ect. To get to heaven, as many people, all you have to do is accept this guy as your savior. So if you are rotten to other people, self centered, ect. thats ok---just believe in the holiness of this egomaniac? If this guy were around today we would call him a bully or a dictator.
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as in:
is man a creation of God, or is God a creation of man?
if it is the former then maybe God is self centered
if it is the latter, maybe it is man that is self centered.
Blessed are the poor in spirit,* for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
* Blessed are they who mourn for they will be comforted.
* Blessed are the meek for they will inherit the land.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,* for they will be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy
* Blessed are the clean of heart for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,* for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
Blessed are you when they insult you and persecute you and utter every kind of evil against you [falsely] because of me.
* Rejoice and be glad, for your reward will be great in heaven. Thus they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Your premiss is shallow at best.
care to expound on this a bit?
Except puppies. Puppies are awesome.
If being rotten to other people is being rotten to him then how can you EVER justify killing, even in war? I don't remember anything about a free pass on the morality of killing as long as it was done with government consent. Is it wrong or not? Just to play devils advocate here for a moment. What if the present administration is one not of your personal choosing. Does that change the morality of a country's actions in war? Given the debate during these times I would suggest it does indeed. So what is morality really? Seems to be defining morality in any concrete way is sort of like holding onto a bowl of jello in your bare hands. Slippery and hard to get a good hold of...
if society deemed that human sacrifice was "ok" does that make it right?
Case in point. Completely leaves out Old Testament, focuses on the more merciful New Testament, and probably the kindest version of God out of all three major religions, saying it's selfish. No mention of Islam or Judaism, no understanding of the difference between the Old/New Testament, and probably no idea that Jesus sacrificed himself.
My point is that you can't have a dialogue if you don't know the first thing about the subject, and start by launching by calling God a piece of ****
Again, nothing but the standard atheistic I-hate-Christianity schtick you see on Reddit Atheism. Zero understanding, but plenty of blame and vitriol.
No mention of Jesus' stating that the most important Commandment was to love thy neighbor as thyself.
Perhaps most telling is that his understanding of "how to get into Heaven" is the exact same crap you see on every atheist board on every forum across the internet - none of them have ever read the Bible, and it's a very common line of attack that the faith "allows even pedophile priests into Heaven if they just believe in God" - No, that's not the way it works, and it shows that the poster has NEVER tried to read anything about it or seek an actual source instead of the same old circlejerk.
My problem isn't the topic, it's the way that it's breached - the constant incendiary language and lack of respect for any view that disagrees
I am not a religious person. I have some personal beliefs but they do NOT include churches or officials from churches in any way.
I do think we are all responsible for our own personal morality. That would include standing against another or agency (read government) in defense of those morals. In other words if you honestly believe that killing is wrong then it is ALWAYS wrong. You can't just put your morals down for a little while and then pick them back up after the dirty work is done as though nothing happened. I know in todays world many would have you belive that is indeed the case but don't delude yourself... it is not. You are and will always remain, responsible for your own morality.
Let others decide when it is OK to put down your morals in order to achieve some desired end... you have failed yourself. Think about it. I would never let anybody other then myself determine what my morals are. Not my church, not my government. Only I can determine that, and that is a very powerful feeling.
You refer here to things which people at some website believe or declare as though Vulchor said them or believed them. That is totally unfair and that is the personal part of your post you should leave alone. If you don't agree with someone great, disagree. Why go after them like you did Vulchor. He stated an opinion about a group not an individual. I know you can see the difference Macro. C'mon man just try to leave the personal poison out of these discussions. You make some good points but they always get lost in the attacks, so your point never really gets any serious consideration. Just sayin'.
It's the incendiary language of the original post that poisons any conversation that follows and shows that "understanding" isn't the point of the post, it's to score cheap points. Someone who wants to understand, whether it's a religion or how a carburetor works, doesn't begin with an attack calling the thing they're trying to understand a piece of **** unless they're making a statement instead of a question.
Also, why do these debates have to get so angry? Nothing but good can come from educated debate. The more both sides understand the other, the better we can communicate.
My mom says it's all because of TV...in fact she says that for just about every problem we have these days, and I'm not so sure she's wrong, either.
. Also, to touch on God's "egomania": think of this, if you will... this is a hypothetical, of course. God says "yeah, I was being selfish. You shouldn't worship me... that's a little extreme, let's give credit where its due and worship (whatever) a little too."
Whatever can be anything, anyone, doesn't matter. If God...the one God of the universe and supreme ruler (we are talking about the Christian God) were to conceed that something other than he was worthy of worship and such reverence, wouldnt that completely undermine his supremacy, and thus his very name.. by the very nature that defines who God is, he has to hold nothing, not one thing, as more important than himself. If he did, than THAT thing would be "God".
Good (and hard) questions, dude. I think it really helps to be able to ask and think about things like this. You know better what you believe, and why. I almost didn't answer, (at work lol!) And also I didn't want to steer anyone wrong. But I hope what I said, I said it clearly. ...and wasn't boring,haha.