you can protest the government, but it doesn't change anything. The government has all the power in this situation because they are forcing you into their program. You have no choice... Where as with an insurance company you do have a choice. Go elsewhere. If everyone left, the company will change, or go away totally. We don't have that option with the Govt. Health care they are trying to pass.
on what puro is saying totally true. I have been without insurance. I worked my a$$ off to get to where I am today to provide a better life for my family. I chose to get up off my butt and fix my situation. I loved being a cop but it was going no where with no benefits and no money. $600 a month for crap insurance. I went to the railroad and have the best damn insurance in the country. I also pay 0 social security taxes but pay into railroad retirement instead. My retirement makes social security look like a joke. I did all this though knowing what I was doing to improve my situation instead of expecting a handout. Not saying anyone here is lazy or wanting free stuff but seriously how many people out there in the US think they are entitled. Makes me sick I work so hard and sacrificed so much and these people think we need to just take care of them. If a person is disabled or can't physically work that is different.
but i will stand up for what i think is right.
and that is individual rights over everything.
I find that statement rather hypocritical since you are against giving people health reform that will allow them to not to be treated as cattle and have real protection when they do get sick. No having people pay more and more for coverage every year and are hanging by a thread of coverage based on a company?
taking away the money earned by legal means from one group is acceptable to you?
if i was to steal money from a rich guy and use it to pay for a visit to the ER i would still go to jail. i violated that persons right to keep what they earned while not violating the rights of others. when the government comes along and does the EXACT SAME THING its ok? bullshit.
health insurance is not a right. neither is health care. it is a good or a service. until you understand that you will miss the point of every argument i have.
the concept of what a is "right" needs to be understood. this concept is the base of my argument.
What does "economic justice" mean, except that you want something that someone else produced, without having to produce anything yourself in return?
Rights refer to action, not objects. We have a right to seek food, but not to food itself; we have a right to seek an education, but not to education itself; we have a right to seek shelter, but not to shelter itself. A right does not ensure that someone will acquire something, it just ensures he may seek to do so.
If we have a right to a thing, an object, then we have a right to coerce another human being to provide it, thus depriving him of liberty.
its a recipe for violation of all rights because to have a right to something means you have a right to initiate the use of physical force or deceit to get it.
The initiation of physical force, or the use of its intellectual equivalent, deceit or fraud, is the only way to violate rights. In each instance, you have deprived the individual of his freedom to make choices about how to support and enjoy his lifethe life that he alone owns.
"Rights" do not include the "right" to violate another's rights---no matter what the need, wish, demand, or assumption.
...but thats "mean"
phobicsquirrel:
Have you not paid attention to anything?
Have you?
since when is violating the rights of anyone OK?
HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT
phobicsquirrel:
You continue to support corporate takeover of America and to limit restrictions on them. Pointing out the government is the evil, which if that was true and since there has been less government control of this country in it's history over the last few decades (more in the last 8) then why did this country end up in the current mess, not to mention the world economy?
please prove ANY of that statement. you keep repeating it but show ZERO evidence to support it. i have referenced on many occasions how just the opposite is true.
you keep telling me to pay attention... take your own advice.
phobicsquirrel:
Millions of jobs have left our country, manufacturing has been a almost distant memory, we now are the largest importer of goods rather than being the exporter of them,
and i have shown you many times that the corporate tax rate in the US is one of the highest in the world but again you refuse to acknowledge this fact. you also refuse to acknowledge the fact that a company will go where it is cheaper to do business. why is manufacturing going down hill in the US? because of high taxes and regulations that are not in other countries. do i need to list the agencies that regulate us again? ...maybe i should do it with a list of what year they are being created so you can see there is more regulation than ever before.
and what about the CZARS that obama is appointing? no, they dont regulate anything. no president has had so many unvetted all powerful regulators ever.
to say that we are less regulated than ever before is just plain ignorant.
phobicsquirrel:
the top 1% own more capital then 95% of us, that the real power of the every day operations of this country are hanging by a corporate thread.....
the top 1% also pays about 40% of all taxes brought in to the US. if i was rich i would try and get my money out of ther US and put it into a country where the tax rates were better.
I fail to see how other people being successful is detrimental to me. good for them. as long as they are not violating the rights of others, its none of my damn business how much they make.
phobicsquirrel:
How are millions upon millions of people being laid off, left to go after scraps while big business's get their money and rob the wealth of the country?
its how they stay open. seriously.
phobicsquirrel:
If you want to see a real interesting film go see moore's capitalism, a love story. It's a really well done film and it's really rather middle sided.
moore is an idiot. he is LIVING the american dream while bashing it. moore grew up in lower middle class Michigan, the son of factory workers. he dropped out of college. he was handed nothing. he worked hard and had passion for what he did and became a successful filmmaker. then he has the ignorance to say "Capitalism never did anything for me" Mr Moore: Capitalism did EVERYTHING for you -- you Millionaire.
phobicsquirrel:
you and others just haven't been able to show we are wrong. Just look at what has happened, it's right in front of you.
we have but you refuse to see.
please PLEASE make references in your posts. you cant prove anything without it.
Michael Moore is so against capitalism yet he charges for his movies and has got rich off his capitalistic ways. I have never seen a bigger hypocrite and lying POS in my life. Oh wait, I take that back, I think Barack Hussein Obama has him beat. Never thought we would see someone lie more than a Clinton.
Michael Moore is so against capitalism yet he charges for his movies and has got rich off his capitalistic ways. I have never seen a bigger hypocrite and lying POS in my life. Oh wait, I take that back, I think Barack Hussein Obama has him beat. Never thought we would see someone lie more than a Clinton.
i disagree with this. Obama isnt lying. he isnt a hypocrite. he has out right said what his plan is many times in the past. Now he is trying to make it happen. i disagree with his policy, but i dont feel that i can say he is lying.
Moore is way more of a hypocrite. he is using capitalism to gain money and power while bashing the very means of his success.
Look up Barack Obama lies and the laundry list flows. Not saying he is the only liar out there! We all know all politicians lie. ALL of them!! The man is a great speaker but when I watch him speak he gives me the creeps and I do not believe a word he says. Just too much stuff to list here to justify my statement. It is my personal opinion and how I personally feel about the man. He said he wasn't going to raise my taxes but watch it is going to happen. We can't keep paying for all this junk without raising taxes. But he is going to raise taxes on the rich and corporations. Do you honestly think Pepsi pays those taxes out of their pockets. Your can of Pepsi has all those taxes incorporated into the price and they will go up as their taxes go up.
Look up Barack Obama lies and the laundry list flows. Not saying he is the only liar out there! We all know all politicians lie. ALL of them!! The man is a great speaker but when I watch him speak he gives me the creeps and I do not believe a word he says. Just too much stuff to list here to justify my statement. It is my personal opinion and how I personally feel about the man. He said he wasn't going to raise my taxes but watch it is going to happen. We can't keep paying for all this junk without raising taxes. But he is going to raise taxes on the rich and corporations. Do you honestly think Pepsi pays those taxes out of their pockets. Your can of Pepsi has all those taxes incorporated into the price and they will go up as their taxes go up.
Actually, he said he wasnt going to raise taxes on people making under a certain amount. Sure, business will try to deflect their costs onto the consumer...but even without increased taxes, the desire of the better bottom line will always exist. Luckily for business, we have plenty of willing Americans to stand by and do their hardest to ensure the corporations prosper as much as possible under the pretense of capitalism and choice correcting the markets.
Luckily for business, we have plenty of willing Americans to stand by and do their hardest to ensure the corporations prosper as much as possible under the pretense of capitalism and choice correcting the markets.
On the topic of taxes and the siutatuation that is causing CEO's and various big businesses to not get their annual million dollar bounues and lavish X-Mas parties.....anyone give any thought to the fact many of the jobs lost will not be returning because the people at the top want to keep their salaries high....thus making 10 people do the work that 12 used to do is much more sensible now, since they have gotten used to it anyway and they are expendable. Afterall, the only thing companies and business owners are to do is turn a bottom line. The govt, the employers, no one should be forced to provide health care or any other service to people----we are only responsible for our own success or failure, our own financial prospering or failing, and.....never to the betterness of our fellow people of the human race and nor should our government. Now where are the 5-10 other people on these boards to inflate my ego and tell me how right I am and how others that dont think like me are the antichrist?
please explain to me how a having a job is a "right".
please explain to me how turning a profit (even a very large one) is violating anyone's rights.
your right... it sucks that those people have to do the work of more people ...but it isnt a violation of rights. its the people becoming more efficient.
Lol.....yes Kuzi...indeed to your first post and to your second I applaud your altruism and good nature. funnnnnnny these boards, depressing, but funny.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
First of all, that was the American people who put him in that office, so by that line of thinking, we should have gotten the Nobel Peace Prize. President Obama had about as much to do with abolishing slavery as he did with inventing the wheel...
Second, you last line shoots your credibilty on here with our debates. We try to keep things civil around here and they do get pretty heated, but we tend to try and hold ourselves to a standard where we don't personally attack each other and try to have intelligent conversations. Also I don't hate Obama, and don't think anyone here does. If you were more familiar with our discussions you would see that we just talked about this. I think he is probably a damn nice guy and would probably be a blast to drink a beer and play a round of golf with. I diagree with his policies, but that doesn't mean I dislike the man as a person.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
please explain to me how a having a job is a "right".
please explain to me how turning a profit (even a very large one) is violating anyone's rights.
your right... it sucks that those people have to do the work of more people ...but it isnt a violation of rights. its the people becoming more efficient.
Hey kuzi, let's just bring back slavery and hey why we are at it let's just have a select few run everything say 8 people and all of us can be stripped of rights and such. Brilliant. Making profit off of the suffering and loss of others isn't moral. I would have hopped that man kind would have grown up. In this country we have the wealthiest people in the world. The top 1% has more wealth than the bottom 95% and that strikes you as good? Why does this country have this type of wealth? Well greed and the destruction of the business sector by de-regulation, and corporate welfare. I think people were doing just fine being rich in the pre 1980's and they actually contributed to society. Ever wondered why we no longer make anything? That doesn't bother you that we import more than any other country? How is it that we use to be the largest exporter? We made *** and had a good balance of the workplace, and it's practices. Once the laws had been shredded for the top our once great manufacturing was depleted. In many ways this country is no longer a super-power. We built the known economic structures and political structures since we rose to a dominate power, now we have been succeeded by many of them if not all due to their willingness to grow with the times. No country is perfect but the level of poverty and wealth of this country is far behind the rest of the industrialized nations. Russia and Germany learned from their mistakes and grown substantially. Japan, and Germany used their capital to invest into infrastructure, manufacturing and the commons. Now Germany is in a lot better shape than us. What happens when this country is cut off from the global market and our dollar is reduced to pennies due to the "fantastic" policies and practices of our stock market and world interests? Believe it or not, it is closer than ever. China, Japan and Russia have all talked about moving the dollar out of the global market standard. Your right, having a job isn't a right, neither are a lot of other things, but they are necessary in our current world. Have you no morality? Is a large company that fires people and destroys entire cities and town worthy of staying in business? Anyone who rides in that arena has no soul, and hopefully will be judged. It's sad that so many people don't do what is right and it goes beyond that, OUR COUNTRY will die if things do not change.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
I wondered that myself actually. But then I just look back at the democratic presidents in recent memory and usually they are attacked for anything they do, whether it is good or not. I thought it was surprising he won but I don't think he doesn't deserve it. I think that it was a bit pre-mature but none the less, hopefully it will propel him to continue to promote peace and to fix many broken ties in the world which we have broken.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
So basically according to you he won the award for being black...well then that just proves my point. The Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. And congratulations Joey in showing how truly ignorant you really are.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
So basically according to you he won the award for being black...well then that just proves my point. The Nobel Peace Prize doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. And congratulations Joey in showing how truly ignorant you really are.
I think that being black and being president was surely something to do with it. I mean it is a huge thing for America. But the chairman or what-ever gave their reason's on voting on Obama's win. And for me personally I feel that warming up Iran and getting China, Russia to join America in pressing them was a HUGE step. I'd rather this end peacefully than going to war. If Iran can be ironed out peacefully that would be a grand step in stabalizing the region. Also Hillary and McCain both had nothing nice to say about Iran during the campaign's and insinuated going to war with them. Bush did too with all that crap spewed after 9-11. I'm glad we are moving down the road of using diplomacy and in joining with other world powers to fix "problem" areas.
This is getting ridiculous, the opinions of the majority in here finding ways too make absurd conclusions based on an opinion and the my $hit dont stink attitude masqueraded in altruism, truth, and defense of the constitution. Also funny how many 20 and early 30 somethings there are here who talk like 82 year old men....cracks me up.
This is getting ridiculous, the opinions of the majority in here finding ways too make absurd conclusions based on an opinion and the my $hit dont stink attitude masqueraded in altruism, truth, and defense of the constitution. Also funny how many 20 and early 30 somethings there are here who talk like 82 year old men....cracks me up.
This is getting ridiculous, the opinions of the majority in here finding ways too make absurd conclusions based on an opinion and the my $hit dont stink attitude masqueraded in altruism, truth, and defense of the constitution. Also funny how many 20 and early 30 somethings there are here who talk like 82 year old men....cracks me up.
How can you critisize people for something you do on these threads on a daily basis?
Race is absolutely not an issue here. I think it is wonderful that we are able to elect a black man. It shows this country has come a long ways and that is a great thing! I am proud of that, and don't have an issue with President Obama's race. I have a problem with his policies and ideas. I would vote tomorrow for J.C. Watts if he would come back and run for President, but he is too honest and too smart to get back into the political world. He was always one of the most honest, and well liked people in Washington from both sides. I think he would be a wonderful President, but I think he is just happy to be out of the corruption of Washington.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
wtf ...
Yeah, this assface makes me miss the days of Johnny Walker...red and blue.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
wtf ...
Yeah, this assface makes me miss the days of Johnny Walker...red and blue.
Life makes me want Johnny Walker.... But not the douche that was on here for a while.
Man, everyone's going crazy over this whole Nobel Peace prize award thing. for god f*cking sakes, before Obama got it, you guys all could have cared less who f*cking won it. Now that Obama wins it, everyone starts a banter on the guy. Ever think that maybe he won it due to him being the FIRST african-american president? That is peace, our country has gone from enslaving African-Americans to now one being president of our country. You guys go try to accomplish something like that... Now f*king suck my **** you obama hatin b1tches!!!!
Wow, you know this guy was hiding under a box when everyone bashed Bush. I disagreed with all sorts of things Bush did so don't go there. I can't remember anyone here specifically saying they hate Obama. I don't like the guy's politics and I sure think he lies about everything which is my personal opinion. But like someone else hear said I am sure he would be a heck of a guy to drink a beer or smoke a cigar with. The guy has charisma dripping from him and is one hell of a speaker.
So, Joey take your ball and go home and maybe we will all call a WAAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhmbulance for you to help you out. I for one like to have these conversations and debate though it is sometimes difficult to keep up on them all. I have tremendous respect for all these guys even though we disagree because we are having intelligent disagreements and debate. You Joey, have no ones respect here.
Comments
if i was to steal money from a rich guy and use it to pay for a visit to the ER i would still go to jail. i violated that persons right to keep what they earned while not violating the rights of others.
when the government comes along and does the EXACT SAME THING its ok?
bullshit.
health insurance is not a right. neither is health care. it is a good or a service. until you understand that you will miss the point of every argument i have.
the concept of what a is "right" needs to be understood. this concept is the base of my argument.
What does "economic justice" mean, except that you want something that someone else produced, without having to produce anything yourself in return?
Rights refer to action, not objects. We have a right to seek food, but not to food itself; we have a right to seek an education, but not to education itself; we have a right to seek shelter, but not to shelter itself. A right does not ensure that someone will acquire something, it just ensures he may seek to do so.
If we have a right to a thing, an object, then we have a right to coerce another human being to provide it, thus depriving him of liberty.
its a recipe for violation of all rights because to have a right to something means you have a right to initiate the use of physical force or deceit to get it. The initiation of physical force, or the use of its intellectual equivalent, deceit or fraud, is the only way to violate rights. In each instance, you have deprived the individual of his freedom to make choices about how to support and enjoy his lifethe life that he alone owns.
"Rights" do not include the "right" to violate another's rights---no matter what the need, wish, demand, or assumption.
...but thats "mean" Have you?
since when is violating the rights of anyone OK?
HEALTH CARE IS NOT A RIGHT
please prove ANY of that statement. you keep repeating it but show ZERO evidence to support it.
i have referenced on many occasions how just the opposite is true.
you keep telling me to pay attention... take your own advice. and i have shown you many times that the corporate tax rate in the US is one of the highest in the world but again you refuse to acknowledge this fact. you also refuse to acknowledge the fact that a company will go where it is cheaper to do business. why is manufacturing going down hill in the US? because of high taxes and regulations that are not in other countries. do i need to list the agencies that regulate us again? ...maybe i should do it with a list of what year they are being created so you can see there is more regulation than ever before.
and what about the CZARS that obama is appointing?
no, they dont regulate anything. no president has had so many unvetted all powerful regulators ever.
to say that we are less regulated than ever before is just plain ignorant.
the top 1% also pays about 40% of all taxes brought in to the US. if i was rich i would try and get my money out of ther US and put it into a country where the tax rates were better.
I fail to see how other people being successful is detrimental to me. good for them. as long as they are not violating the rights of others, its none of my damn business how much they make. its how they stay open. seriously. moore is an idiot. he is LIVING the american dream while bashing it. moore grew up in lower middle class Michigan, the son of factory workers. he dropped out of college. he was handed nothing. he worked hard and had passion for what he did and became a successful filmmaker. then he has the ignorance to say "Capitalism never did anything for me"
Mr Moore: Capitalism did EVERYTHING for you -- you Millionaire.
we have but you refuse to see.
please PLEASE make references in your posts. you cant prove anything without it.
Moore is way more of a hypocrite. he is using capitalism to gain money and power while bashing the very means of his success.
please explain to me how turning a profit (even a very large one) is violating anyone's rights.
your right... it sucks that those people have to do the work of more people
...but it isnt a violation of rights. its the people becoming more efficient.
but im not mean enough to wish failure.
Second, you last line shoots your credibilty on here with our debates. We try to keep things civil around here and they do get pretty heated, but we tend to try and hold ourselves to a standard where we don't personally attack each other and try to have intelligent conversations. Also I don't hate Obama, and don't think anyone here does. If you were more familiar with our discussions you would see that we just talked about this. I think he is probably a damn nice guy and would probably be a blast to drink a beer and play a round of golf with. I diagree with his policies, but that doesn't mean I dislike the man as a person.
wtf ...
"Long ashes my friends."
So, Joey take your ball and go home and maybe we will all call a WAAAAaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhmbulance for you to help you out. I for one like to have these conversations and debate though it is sometimes difficult to keep up on them all. I have tremendous respect for all these guys even though we disagree because we are having intelligent disagreements and debate. You Joey, have no ones respect here.