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Are you voting?

genareddoggenareddog Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
in Non Cigar Related
I have had more conversations with people about voting than I care to and so many say if their candidate does not win they will have nothing to do with politics again. I know most are just fuming and they will vote again. And then some complain about everything but then say they have never voted in their lives. I don't think much of either candidate but I do think Trump will do us more good than Clinton. My dad is drinking the Trump juice saying how great it will be with him etc. etc. He and I have a little bet on who it will be. If Trump gets in I owe him a bottle of bourbon of his choice. If she gets in he owes me a box of cigars of my choice. Just don't think he can pull it off.
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Comments

  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Oh, you can bet I'll be voting. I'm not happy with either candidate but, to quote somebody or other, "T'was ever thus".  Nothing but the choice of the lesser of two evils....   :#
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am. I'm not sure why, but I am.

    I got into this discussion with some folks and wonder if folks are aware that a candidate could win with only 11 states?
    If a candidate wins CA, TX, FL, NY, PA, IL, OH, GA, MI, NC and NJ, it will equate to enough electoral votes to win.
    Those states equal over 269 votes.
    Since 1968, there have only been 2 elections where the candidate that CA voted for didn't win. Both those elections George W Bush won.

    A candidate only needs 270 electoral votes to win. 

    This is why the re-counts are such a farce.

    18 months ago, the mathematical probability that either Trump or Clinton would make it was quite low.
    Now, if 4 weeks, either way it goes, we will wake up in the morning of Nov 9 and go, "Oh crap." 
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • MikeToddMikeTodd Posts: 974 ✭✭✭✭✭
    genareddog said:
    I have had more conversations with people about voting than I care to and so many say if their candidate does not win they will have nothing to do with politics again. I know most are just fuming and they will vote again. And then some complain about everything but then say they have never voted in their lives. I don't think much of either candidate but I do think Trump will do us more good than Clinton. My dad is drinking the Trump juice saying how great it will be with him etc. etc. He and I have a little bet on who it will be. If Trump gets in I owe him a bottle of bourbon of his choice. If she gets in he owes me a box of cigars of my choice. Just don't think he can pull it off.
    I'll vote for Hiliary if you will split that box with me...
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    So I'm curious. If your father is "saying how great it will be" with Trump, can you say how great it will be with Clinton?

    Or are you voting Clinton because you don't want to vote for Trump?
    To vote for one solely for the reason of not voting for the other doesn't make sense.

    https://youtu.be/lO7FTFINw6g
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • genareddoggenareddog Posts: 4,205 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will be voting for Trump if for no other reason for the supreme court justices.
  • dirtdudedirtdude Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Your vote counts
    A little dirt never hurt
  • Ryan1990Ryan1990 Posts: 526 ✭✭✭✭
    Not voting for president unless I can write someone in. Can't remember if NC lets you do that.
  • TNBigfoot68TNBigfoot68 Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I always vote even if my choice isn't running  it is a privilege and honor that many have died for us to vote. This year has been the biggest and wildest rollercoaster I have ever been on. 
    I was born a fool, and just got bigger!
  • WaterNerdWaterNerd Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'll be voting and I encourage all of you to do the same!


    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt
    — Abraham Lincoln


  • Gray4linesGray4lines Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, Mr. Johnson. Will it matter as far as outcomes? No. But I would rather voice my opinion, and any support for a non-mainstream candidate sends a message, I believe. 

    Speaking of voting, look up "Arrow's impossibility theorem."   (if you don't want to, in short, it states that the preferences of a group cannot be rational and do not necessarily reflect the preferences of individuals)  -- just in case you didn't feel like voting was already a waste, lol!   
    LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
  • Amos_UmwhatAmos_Umwhat Posts: 8,806 ✭✭✭✭✭
    raisindot said:
    Vote, vote, vote! Vote for Trump, Clinton, Johnson, Stein or anyone else, but just vote! It really is a right that too many people have died to protect to ignore. Even if the candidate you support doesn't win, even if your vote won't necessarily tip the scale in your state, cherish the fact that, for the most part, your chances of being killed or attacked at the polls or being denied the right to vote, or having your vote nullified by blatant fraud, are almost nil, compared to those who risk their lives to vote in many other parts of the world.
    This. 



    Well said.
    WARNING:  The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme.  Proceed at your own risk.  

    "If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed.  If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." --  Mark Twain
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    image
  • YankeeManYankeeMan Posts: 2,654 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've voted in every election, national, state and local since I was 21, the age of voting when I was younger.  Since moving to NC, at least my vote counts on the national level.

    In NY, unless your candidate is a Democrat, your vote does not count.  NY has gone Democrat since just after Noah's Ark!
  • dirtdudedirtdude Posts: 5,825 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Have my ballot in my fat little hand right now, time to get to marking 
    A little dirt never hurt
  • Devildog1Devildog1 Posts: 931 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I will not vote for a tax and spend democrat
  • 0patience0patience Posts: 10,665 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Does anyone else feel like your choices are similar to having to buy a car and your choices are a Yugo and AMC Pacer?
    In Fumo Pax
    Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.

    Wylaff said:
    Atmospheric pressure and crap.
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    0patience said:
    Does anyone else feel like your choices are similar to having to buy a car and your choices are a Yugo and AMC Pacer?
    Well, sorta. But as bad as both choices are there's a point to be considered - particularly by folks who need and rely on medical marijuana. Actually, there are two points...

    Two of the things that Trump espouses, although we haven't heard a lot about them from him, are that he's in favor of legalizing marijuana, particularly medical marijuana, and bringing about congressional term limits. And I think most of us would agree that we definitely need the term limits. We've had a do-nothing congress for far too long. 

    And there's a lot of good to be had by making medical marijuana more readily available and by advancing clinical study of it. 

    I've heard it said, and I agree, that if he'd been talking about issues like these up until now he'd be in a lot better position to win in November. Instead of some of the ridiculous crap he's been slinging so far. 

    So sayeth the oldfart....  :#
  • MartelMartel Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭✭
    Well, congressional term limits might have the opposite effect than what we want.  The law of unintended consequences seemed to play out in CA after enacting term limits on legislatures when it only increased the power of unelected staffers and special interest groups.  Legislating is more complex than we give credit for, usually.  Relationships with other legislators is important, for one, and good, working relationships can take years to develop. I see wisdom in limiting an executive from holding power for too long, but lawmakers have a very different job and I fear limits will make them more dangerous in some ways as they push for a quick flash they can call their "legacy" rather than working for long-term change that is truly beneficial.
    Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

    I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot.  I will smoke anything, though.
  • raisindotraisindot Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭
    0patience said:
    So I heard someone say that they aren't voting for a senator, because they are in the same party as Trump.
    So I have to assume that the person is not voting that party at all?

    I have to wonder if some people only vote one party, no matter whether they like that person or not?
    I've always voted for the candidate, not the party. I guess that's odd?
    From a Congressional election perspective, I think most people who believe in the general current philosophy of a party tend to vote for candidates of that party provided that person aligns with the party's POV. After all, you're voting for someone to represent what you believe in. And sometimes the overall noxiousness of a candidate makes that vote difficult. Twice here in MA I voted for a candidate I really disliked as a person, even though her record was good and she was basically honest. But I voted for her because I didn't want her opponent or her opponent's party, to win. She ended up losing both elections. 

    Sometimes, though, the candidate in your party is so noxious and the opponent is acceptable enough that  you just can't follow the party line.  Even though I'm a Democrat, twice I voted for Republican Bill Weld for governor in the 90s, because his Democratic opponents were total cretins and, at the time, Weld was a moderate Republican that I could feel comfortable voting for. . 
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If ever I heard an argument in favor of keeping 'good ol' boy politics' it's the one I just read. It's those long term relationships that are perpetuating the mutual backscratching and self-enrichment aspects of the problem. 

    Sorry, @Martel, I couldn't disagree more with your perspective...  B)
  • MartelMartel Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭✭
    jlmarta said:
    If ever I heard an argument in favor of keeping 'good ol' boy politics' it's the one I just read. It's those long term relationships that are perpetuating the mutual backscratching and self-enrichment aspects of the problem. 

    Sorry, @Martel, I couldn't disagree more with your perspective...  B)
    The thing is, I agree with the sentiment.  I just don't think term limits fixes it; instead, it opens a whole other can of worms.  Ultimately, I want government to work by doing something.  The current climate is entirely obstructionist.  With term limits, I could see that being much worse.
    Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

    I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot.  I will smoke anything, though.
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You don't agree that a way to eliminate the obstructionist climate is to get rid of the deadwood that's holding everything up??
  • MartelMartel Posts: 3,306 ✭✭✭✭
    Sure, I just don't think they're all necessarily, or by default of the job or time on the job, deadwood.  Term limits cut the healthy ones out, too, and exchange one set of problems for another.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/sacbee.relaymedia.com/amp/opinion/op-ed/bill-whalen/article31032606.html


     https://www.google.com/amp/www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-california-term-limit-impact.html?AMP

     http://www.ppic.org/main/publication.asp?i=563

    So, limits have created problems is all I'm saying. And part of the observed problems is actually an increase in partisanship.
    Intelligence is knowing that a tomato is a fruit; wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad.

    I like Oliva and Quesada (including Regius) a lot.  I will smoke anything, though.
  • jlmartajlmarta Posts: 7,881 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Well, I'm sure you're more 'on top' of things in the political arena than I am but the way I see it, people have a predisposition to say 'well, my representative is fine, it's the others who need to be replaced'. I'm sure you can see the weak spot there. 

    Consequently, the only way to kick things off of dead-center is to clear them all out and start over - and that means some of the good ones (yours and mine   :#) have to be sacrificed for the common good. Capisce?  

    Just MHO...  
  • peter4jcpeter4jc Posts: 16,474 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I'd also like to see something more closely resembling how it was set up way back when, that being in Washington as a legislator wasn't a vocation, especially one you could get rich off of, or for that matter have to be rich to attain to.  They could cut back on salary/benefits/pension and compensation from lobbyists, so that they don't want to be there other than for public service.
    "I could've had a Mi Querida!"   Nick Bardis
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    NorthsideSmoke said:
    Voting, I cannot vote for Hillary or Trump though and I do like a lot of what Gary Johnson represents. I know he cannot win, but if we can get enough votes it could send a message.

    But the real message is to accept a portion of the blame for these choices. I did not vote in the primary as 72% of the rest of us didn't 86% for both parties each (only 14% of Republican and Democrats voted in their primaries). Our choices are this bad because we did not make one when it mattered and that is on a lot of us. 
    Eggs Ackley
    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
  • webmostwebmost Posts: 7,713 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Voting for the lesser of two evils only guarantees evil. 
    “It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
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