My question for @Crisius ... Are you alive today only because your idea of using the death penalty on a broader scale wasn't implemented when you were younger? Or did you never do the stupid stuff most of us did in our youth?
This is for @JD50ae in reply to your original question.
Deadly Force is NEVER PERMITTED to protect personal property or real estate.
Tennessee Code Annotated section 39-11-614 (c)clearly states that“Unless a person is justified in using deadly force as otherwise provided by law, a person is not justified in using deadly force to prevent or terminate the other’s trespass on real estate or unlawful interference with personal property.”
I also looked for laws on booby traps. Couldn't find anything. Pretty sure anything physically harmful would be illegal too. I assume anything you do them will get you in more trouble than they'll ever be in for stealing anything of yours.
Lights and sounds will deter them. Keep it simple.
And remember, JD, they don't get 5Vegas Golds in prison.
Using booby traps is illegal in all cases. It is impossible to say that you were acting in self defense if you have set up traps in your home. There was recently a case where a man was lying in wait in his garage since there had been a string of burglaries. The court convicted him of premeditated murder.
Taking reasonable steps like putting up camera and signage stating that you will prosecute all acts of trespass would go a long way.
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property: (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary: (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and (3) he reasonably believes that: (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
I've lived in Texas a couple times, I miss it sometimes.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
The Statute itself says that the device cannot "create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury." I have no interest running through the legislative intent, or case law in Texas, on how the state court has interpreted this specific statute, but I would imagine that it applies to cameras, fencing, signage, and things of that nature. It would surprise me if it applied to spring guns, claymores, poison, spike pits, or any other devices of that have been mentioned before.
The Statute on deadly force also says that the individual needs to "reasonably believe the deadly force is immediately necessary" and
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
There is a lot of ambiguity in the two code sections, and without actually reading them for yourself or asking a licensed attorney in your state I wouldn't tell others that they can use deadly force just because someone is stealing something. Just to be clear, I am also not saying your interpretation is wrong but without actually knowing how the law has been applied in your state just reading the plain meaning of the statute may not be enough.
My question for @Crisius ... Are you alive today only because your idea of using the death penalty on a broader scale wasn't implemented when you were younger? Or did you never do the stupid stuff most of us did in our youth?
Plenty of stupid stuff. But always on the right side of the law. You could shine a microscope on my life and not find anything I've described as a reason for a death sentence. I get it, plenty of people were crappy people when younger. Plenty of people are crappy now.
But there is a limit on crappiness, I'm tired of the soft handed stuff that lets people who clearly have no respect for another.
Looks like we may be getting some help from a totally unexpected source. The Game Warden. One of our neighbors complained about the poachers in the area and she mentioned the trouble we were having. Not about the horses but the illegal feeding station and a deer stand on our property. My wife also informed him about the dog that was shot on our property, and the shots in close proximetry while the kids were playing. He was also told about the times we posted no trespassing signs just to have them torn down or shot up. He was very interested and took a lot of information from us. Be nice to have some more eyes poking around.
I have to admit I like the Texas approach. If you break into someone's house, property, etc., with intent to steal or do harm, what happens to you is only YOUR fault.
Not that anyone should get medieval or anything, but, you get shot?
Your problem.
No court in America should say different, unless they're just more thieves in cahoots.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Maybe we have a disagreement over what a booby trap is and leave it at that.
A couple of claymores on the fence line would sure do the trick.
There are live claymores, and dummy claymores.
Dummy'd be good for you.
Age before beauty. You first my friend.
Me first? Me first, what? What are we doing? And,... how beautiful are you exactly? Pics? Maybe you're real ugly. And also,..... how ugly would a young'un need to be before the old adage, "age before beauty" reaches it's tipping point and require the ass-ugly young'un go first?
I have what's called a burger bomb set up in my greenhouses. Looks like a smoke detector. But it really is a pepper spray bomb. Works well until you forget to deactivate it. That hurt like hell lol
@silvermouse The bombs are in the entry ways, not in the grow rooms themselves. But I was worried about that so I hosed a plant down with pepper spray one time to see what would happen. The plant didn't suffer really, it just got painted orange. We didn't notice any effects otherwise. It flowered just fine and ultimately the orange leaves fell off.
Comments
Taking reasonable steps like putting up camera and signage stating that you will prosecute all acts of trespass would go a long way.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katko_v._Briney
Here is a Supreme Court case that shows that a person is liable for the traps they set as well.
TEXAS PENAL CODE:
@Bob_Luken,
Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
@ExpendableYouth,
Section 9.44
Use of Device to Protect Property
I've lived in Texas a couple times, I miss it sometimes.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
The Statute itself says that the device cannot "create a substantial risk of causing, death or serious bodily injury." I have no interest running through the legislative intent, or case law in Texas, on how the state court has interpreted this specific statute, but I would imagine that it applies to cameras, fencing, signage, and things of that nature. It would surprise me if it applied to spring guns, claymores, poison, spike pits, or any other devices of that have been mentioned before.
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
There is a lot of ambiguity in the two code sections, and without actually reading them for yourself or asking a licensed attorney in your state I wouldn't tell others that they can use deadly force just because someone is stealing something. Just to be clear, I am also not saying your interpretation is wrong but without actually knowing how the law has been applied in your state just reading the plain meaning of the statute may not be enough.
But there is a limit on crappiness, I'm tired of the soft handed stuff that lets people who clearly have no respect for another.
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
The Game Warden.
One of our neighbors complained about the poachers in the area and she mentioned the trouble we were having. Not about the horses but the illegal feeding station and a deer stand on our property. My wife also informed him about the dog that was shot on our property, and the shots in close proximetry while the kids were playing. He was also told about the times we posted no trespassing signs just to have them torn down or shot up.
He was very interested and took a lot of information from us.
Be nice to have some more eyes poking around.
@ExpendableYouth,
The only thing I'm interperating is your claim of "in all cases". Clearly, it is an erroneous statement.
Bob stated "never permitted" but then posted Tennessee statute. If he meant "never permitted" in TN...mea culpa.
So there...
The Game Warden has talked to all the neighbors. Wonder what kind of trap he will set up.
Dummy'd be good for you.
Not that anyone should get medieval or anything, but, you get shot?
Your problem.
No court in America should say different, unless they're just more thieves in cahoots.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Works well until you forget to deactivate it.
That hurt like hell lol
https://www.burglarbomb.com/
What you can't forgive......you will become.
The bombs are in the entry ways, not in the grow rooms themselves.
But I was worried about that so I hosed a plant down with pepper spray one time to see what would happen.
The plant didn't suffer really, it just got painted orange. We didn't notice any effects otherwise.
It flowered just fine and ultimately the orange leaves fell off.
What you can't forgive......you will become.
What you can't forgive......you will become.