Should we raise the minimum age limit to buy/possess an AR15 ?

Bob_Luken

I'm thinking of the shooter's mental condition combined with his age and the fact that mental/emotional maturation occurs at different rates for different young adults. It's obvious he was unstable already but, here's the thing, he wouldn't have been allowed to buy a handgun until 21 yet he's allowed to buy an AR15 at 18. I know the AR15 has uses besides shooting at people but it's original design is for shooting people so,  I wonder why we shouldn't be at least as concerned with the AR15 age requirement for the same reasons as we are with handguns. (And I know there would be other rifles involved also. High magazine capacity would be the factor for inclusion.) I would assume exemptions could be allowed for those 18 through 20 with prior military service (with honorable discharge) and I would also suppose an exemption could be proposed for 18 through 20 year old individuals who can state their need/use for this rifle and produce a handful character references to be reasonably be assured these exempted individuals are not a risk to public safety. 

TX98Z28

https://ftp.dot.state.tx.us/pub/txdot-info/trf/crash_statistics/2016/01.pdf

In 2016, there were 987 people killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes where a driver was under the influence of alcohol. This is 26% of the total number of people killed in motor vehicle traffic crashes. 

If that many people can be killed by drunk driving in Texas alone in 2016 and the minimum age was raised from 18 to 21 back in the day to purchase alcohol, what good is it going to do now to do that for rifles? So Cruz was of age to buy one and the FBI and others did nothing when they knew he was a loose cannon, well what if he just went down to the hood and bought a real AK-47 for $900? No background check, no paper work, no one knows and the arms dealer sure as hell ain't talking. 

My point is people kill people and it doesn't matter if there impaired, mentally ill, they use a gun or a vehicle to do it, loss of life is still the result.

Bob_Luken

Cruz wouldn't make it out of the hood with a gun or the $900 he came with. LOL I'm just thinking of one thing out of MANY things we should consider doing differently to make schools safer. We protect so many other institutions with better ideas and  methods but we've just remained stagnant on improving safety from shooters at schools. 

deadman

I don’t think an age restriction would help. It would be the difference of buying it legally vs illegally. 
What we need to work on is our society.

dirtdude

I will not let the liberals force me into this conversation, not saying you are liberal Mike but there are more pressing topics that need discussion and I am not biting on the liberal cheese.

peter4jc

I don't think an age restriction will help either.  At first I thought this idea could be a 'bone' to toss to the anti-gun nutjobs and shut them up for a bit, but then realized that they are never happy and will never stop.  That's why I'm reluctant to give in at all, because they won't stop until only the criminals have guns.

Stubble

The National Safety Council reports there were 18, 680 deaths in 2017 due to automobiles.  They weren't originally designed to kill people, but they do.  Raise the driving age to 21, or ban automobiles?

Stubble

Mike,  do you know the difference between an AR15 and a M16?

TX98Z28

Bob_Luken said:

Cruz wouldn't make it out of the hood with a gun or the $900 he came with. LOL I'm just thinking of one thing out of MANY things we should consider doing differently to make schools safer. We protect so many other institutions with better ideas and  methods but we've just remained stagnant on improving safety from shooters at schools. 

Your right, he'd probably get hooked up with 2...and 10 mags, $900 was a a little low when their smoking hot!
Illegal arms dealers don't give a **** its about moving product and making money...hitting him for a lick for $900 would be bad for business.

Maybe the schools should do something about bullying? They said he was known to be bullied and the result had aggressive behavior changes where kids at school were afraid of him! Family problems, being bullied, school did nothing other than expel him...that really helped, makes me wonder if that's why the school was his target.

avengethis

TX98Z28 said:

Bob_Luken said:

Cruz wouldn't make it out of the hood with a gun or the $900 he came with. LOL I'm just thinking of one thing out of MANY things we should consider doing differently to make schools safer. We protect so many other institutions with better ideas and  methods but we've just remained stagnant on improving safety from shooters at schools. 

Your right, he'd probably get hooked up with 2...and 10 mags, $900 was a a little low when their smoking hot!
Illegal arms dealers don't give a **** its about moving product and making money...hitting him for a lick for $900 would be bad for business.

Maybe the schools should do something about bullying? They said he was known to be bullied and the result had aggressive behavior changes where kids at school were afraid of him! Family problems, being bullied, school did nothing other than expel him...that really helped, makes me wonder if that's why the school was his target.

This is a valid point...the schools say they have a not tolerance policy when it comes to bullying but a good friend of ours had a child being bullied and when he said something to a councilor in the school he was told to be more accepting of other people and ended up getting disciplined and shamed for it.  Maybe this isn't the norm but its not the first time I have heard it this way.  They always preach "See something, Say something" the problem is when you do, you become the exile.

0patience

avengethis said:

This is a valid point...the schools say they have a not tolerance policy when it comes to bullying but a good friend of ours had a child being bullied and when he said something to a councilor in the school he was told to be more accepting of other people and ended up getting disciplined and shamed for it.  Maybe this isn't the norm but its not the first time I have heard it this way.  They always preach "See something, Say something" the problem is when you do, you become the exile.

In my day, if you were being bullied, you evened the odds.
Get bullied by 2 people, a chair evens the odds and don't get bullied the rest of your high school years.
But that kind of thing is no longer acceptable.

If they have to work for it and hurt afterwards, they are less likely to do it again.

Bob_Luken

Stubble said:

Mike,  do you know the difference between an AR15 and a M16?

Are you serious? Or you just trying to piss me off? WTF makes you think I'm ignorant? What triggered you? I didn't say "machine gun". I don't think I used the term semi-auto erroneously, if I used it at all. Just Nevermind. I'll tell everyone the difference and we can just move on. The M16 has a spark igniter built into the pinkey trigger of the flame thrower. On the AR15 ya gotta hold a bic or a match out in front of the nozzle when ya squirts the napalm.

Diver43

Bob_Luken said:

I'm thinking of the shooter's mental condition combined with his age and the fact that mental/emotional maturation occurs at different rates for different young adults. It's obvious he was unstable already but, here's the thing, he wouldn't have been allowed to buy a handgun until 21 yet he's allowed to buy an AR15 at 18. I know the AR15 has uses besides shooting at people but it's original design is for shooting people so,  I wonder why we shouldn't be at least as concerned with the AR15 age requirement for the same reasons as we are with handguns. (And I know there would be other rifles involved also. High magazine capacity would be the factor for inclusion.) I would assume exemptions could be allowed for those 18 through 20 with prior military service (with honorable discharge) and I would also suppose an exemption could be proposed for 18 through 20 year old individuals who can state their need/use for this rifle and produce a handful character references to be reasonably be assured these exempted individuals are not a risk to public safety. 

Actually Mr. Stoner designed the ArmaLite Rifle with civilian sales in mind. It was originally chambered in .308 Winchester and was called an AR-10. A hunting rifle made from then innovated plastics.  It was the Military that approached Stoner who then worked for Colt, they desired it in a smaller caliber.  The full auto capability came later when it was designated the M-16.

Diver43

Personally I thought the AR-10 came later

Captain_Call

The original was called an ar10 but it is not the same as an ar10 we are used to today

Diver43

Captain_Call said:

The original was called an ar10 but it is not the same as an ar10 we are used to today

Yup

one of the originals is as rare and valuable as unicorn tears

Stubble

Bob_Luken said:

Stubble said:

Mike,  do you know the difference between an AR15 and a M16?

Are you serious? Or you just trying to piss me off? WTF makes you think I'm ignorant? What triggered you? I didn't say "machine gun". I don't think I used the term semi-auto erroneously, if I used it at all. Just Nevermind. I'll tell everyone the difference and we can just move on. The M16 has a spark igniter built into the pinkey trigger of the flame thrower. On the AR15 ya gotta hold a bic or a match out in front of the nozzle when ya squirts the napalm.

Most people that regurgitate the liberal drivel are bumbling fools that are not educated about firearms, their limitations and capabilities.  Just wondered where you fell in that respect.  More people in the U.S. die due to automobile related events than firearm related events.  Wondering why you did not create a poll about that.  What triggered you? 

Bob_Luken

Stubble said:

Bob_Luken said:

Stubble said:

Mike,  do you know the difference between an AR15 and a M16?

Are you serious? Or you just trying to piss me off? WTF makes you think I'm ignorant? What triggered you? I didn't say "machine gun". I don't think I used the term semi-auto erroneously, if I used it at all. Just Nevermind. I'll tell everyone the difference and we can just move on. The M16 has a spark igniter built into the pinkey trigger of the flame thrower. On the AR15 ya gotta hold a bic or a match out in front of the nozzle when ya squirts the napalm.

Most people that regurgitate the liberal drivel are bumbling fools that are not educated about firearms, their limitations and capabilities.  Just wondered where you fell in that respect.  More people in the U.S. die due to automobile related events than firearm related events.  Wondering why you did not create a poll about that.  What triggered you? 

Well I was mostly just joking with you Steve but if I repeat a proposed idea that I've heard mentioned by Pres Trump in the news, I don't call that it regurgitation unless it's skewed statistics that are spun to provide a desired outcome then I would agree that I was regurgitating drivel. I'm reasonably educated relating to firearms. Not as much as you but I know what is and isn't full auto. And I am pro 2nd amendment but in this particular case I'm wondering if an age limit MIGHT have prevented this guy from specifically getting an AR15 or at least created a barrier to his efforts enough to have slowed him down and changed the outcome. And I'm very aware that he could have found another way to get a AR or a different gun that would have produced the same outcome and that there are scores of other causes and solutions that Need to be considered. I'm asking y'all to weigh in on this specific idea that is already being proposed. It's not my idea but I'm wondering why this weapon is available to an 18 year old and handguns are not. Why the difference? Couldnt he have killed just as many with a handgun?

Bob_Luken

Stubble said:

More people in the U.S. die due to automobile related events than firearm related events.  Wondering why you did not create a poll about that. 

Actually this has been on my mind for years and could have also been one of my poll questions. I wonder why we are triggered so much by gun deaths vs drunk driving deaths. Sure the drunk didn't strictly "murder" anybody on purpose but dead is dead,....... and the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers are staggering compared to people shot to death,..... but we don't blame the car or even the booze, we blame the person and the person needs to be "fixed" not the car, not the booze. But if it's a gun, especially a scary looking one that holds a lot of bullets,..... Gotta be the gun's fault too. @Stubble Steve, you may not know me as well as I thought you did and that's probably my fault cause I just don't go tellin' everybody every little thing I know or think all the time. I play it close to the vest. Y'all young'uns know what playing it close to the vest means? I guess you could google it. 

dirtdude

In the old west, card players would hold their cards close to their vest for 2 reasons
*so others didn't know their strategy
*the vest was where the handgun was in case things went south

jd50ae

How many drunk driving deaths are due to teenagers?

Captain_Call

Don't we have a thread for the origin of phrases?

Amos_Umwhat

I'm still hooked on my self-control theory.  

My school experiences are very similar to what @Opatience described above, except that I was in 9 different schools, 5 different systems, between K - 12.  Rifle racks, a guy I knew handed me his loaded .40 six-shooter in the hallway, I checked it out, no one who noticed freaked out.  No one got shot.  Same with dealing with bullies.  Life went on.  

So, what's the new common denominator?  Bullying no longer happens in person, and this generations investment in self is determined by a status obtained only in a "virtual reality" through a hand held portal.  

So, perhaps if we raised the legal age of owning a smart-phone to 19, or so, we would be much closer to addressing the core of the actual problem.

jd50ae

Amos_Umwhat said:

I'm still hooked on my self-control theory.  

My school experiences are very similar to what @Opatience described above, except that I was in 9 different schools, 5 different systems, between K - 12.  Rifle racks, a guy I knew handed me his loaded .40 six-shooter in the hallway, I checked it out, no one who noticed freaked out.  No one got shot.  Same with dealing with bullies.  Life went on.  

So, what's the new common denominator?  Bullying no longer happens in person, and this generations investment in self is determined by a status obtained only in a "virtual reality" through a hand held portal.  

So, perhaps if we raised the legal age of owning a smart-phone to 19, or so, we would be much closer to addressing the core of the actual problem.

I VOTE UP A 1000 TIMES

TX98Z28

Amos_Umwhat said:

I'm still hooked on my self-control theory.  

My school experiences are very similar to what @Opatience described above, except that I was in 9 different schools, 5 different systems, between K - 12.  Rifle racks, a guy I knew handed me his loaded .40 six-shooter in the hallway, I checked it out, no one who noticed freaked out.  No one got shot.  Same with dealing with bullies.  Life went on.  

So, what's the new common denominator?  Bullying no longer happens in person, and this generations investment in self is determined by a status obtained only in a "virtual reality" through a hand held portal.  

So, perhaps if we raised the legal age of owning a smart-phone to 19, or so, we would be much closer to addressing the core of the actual problem.

The amount of cyber bullying is out of control, with Facebook, Twitter, you name it! I truly believe this is the root that starts it all with these kids, and what they end up doing to get even or make it stop is starting a very familiar trend...

I have a story I'll share later today of someone I personally knew that was bullied, picked on, etc. and it didn't turn out so well... and could have been A LOT worse.

jd50ae

Watch the "Tucker Carlson" show next month. He is devoting the month on what has happened the males/men/persons in this country. He has already tackled the "electronic" age.

Sasquatch

We, as a country, need to pick a legal age for people to be adults. It started off 18 was the age of adulthood, but has now been moved back as far as the age of 26 before being considered an adult.
18- Legal age to enter into contracts
18-age to be drafted(military service w/o parental consent)
18-age to vote
18- legal age to buy rifles/shotguns/ammo
21- legal drinking age
21- legal smoking age(varies by state?)
21- legal handgun purchasing age
23- age at which you are kicked out of high school
26- age at which you age off mommy's/daddy's insurance

The age to be considered an adult should be standardized and not all over the age spectrum depending on the activity. Quit mollycoddling people and make them responsible for their actions. Poor choices made by some young adults should not make the "age of adulthood" for that activity to rise.
High school kids have been bullied since time began. This is nothing new. The only thing new is post 1995's kid's reaction to the bullying/adolescent pressures. My observations say that is roughly when we started giving out awards to everybody. We wouldn't want someone's feelings to be hurt because they didn't earn an award, so we will just give one to everybody. We stopped keeping score in sporting events, so no one would have to cope & grow from losing. It is also the rise of adddhd...ohhh whatever letters they call it this week... We always used the term "hyper" otherwise known as a normal young boy, but now that it is adddhd, they receive drugs for it.
We have taken all growth/maturity/ life lessons from these young adults and now they lack the skills to cope with life until they are well into their 20's unfortunately.
Just my 2 cents...
Get off my lawn!

Amos_Umwhat

Sasquatch said:

High school kids have been bullied since time began. This is nothing new. The only thing new is post 1995's kid's reaction to the bullying/adolescent pressures. My observations say that is roughly when we started giving out awards to everybody. We wouldn't want someone's feelings to be hurt because they didn't earn an award, so we will just give one to everybody. We stopped keeping score in sporting events, so no one would have to cope & grow from losing. It is also the rise of adddhd...ohhh whatever letters they call it this week... We always used the term "hyper" otherwise known as a normal young boy, but now that it is adddhd, they receive drugs for it.
We have taken all growth/maturity/ life lessons from these young adults and now they lack the skills to cope with life until they are well into their 20's unfortunately.
Just my 2 cents...
Get off my lawn!

Bingo!  I love it.  

silvermouse

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/if-you-want-to-know-how-to-stop-school-shootings-ask-the-secret-service/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-digest&utm_content=link&utm_term=2018-02-27_top-stories

jw517

The bolt carrier is stronger on a M-16 . AR-18 was the final Stoner design chambered in 5.56 nato. 

Yournamehere

I really have no stone to throw in this but it also doesn’t effect me. Yes I know plenty of people with AR’s and they are really just collectors and hobbiests. Do I think you need one...no but it’s your right to own one. Do I think you should be 21 to buy one? I think you should. This is only because it is more of a novalty then a need. Younger people still hunt so rifles I get and can argue with. That being said how many of you go hunting with a AR? For certain things in life it is more of a luxury then a necessity. Even at 21 or older people I know a few people that should not own a gun of any sort but do own them. Does this scare me? Yes since they are the people saying that if they were at that school it wouldn’t have happened. These are the shoot first ask questions later type and there are too many. While I feel that this is a small amount of people in the country and shouldn’t blame others. I feel it is a small amount that do the crazy things that make the rest look bad. To sum it all up I think certain states need to rewrite some of the gun laws and bring them up to date