Afghanistan was a pipe dream of anything changing. Year after year you heard General after General talk about how the Afghan Army was weeks away from taking over. 20 years later they did exactly what many saw coming.
The leadership was no better in spinning **** either.
Petraeus was more worried about his own asss then those of the soldiers on the ground. How he still has not been reduced in rank is beyond me, he violated the UCMJ when he stuck his pecker in another woman. What a leader.
McCrystal was more concerned with shutting down the fast food places in Afghanistan than actually fighting a war.
The list goes on and on. Once they retire they go on tv giving expert analysis on how to win in Afghan. Yet when they where in charge they had no solution other than troop surges and cash.
This was a complete joke of an effort if there ever was one.
Never had an entrance plan and 20 years later they didn't have an exit one either.
Trillions of dollars wasted, countless lives lost and at the end of the day the Taliban which only controlled the southern part of the country 20 years ago, now controls the entire country without hardly firing a shot.
Insane.
Free Cuba "I ain't got no Opus's" LLA - Lancero Lovers of America 2016 Gang War (South) May I assss u a ?
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
Question: How much did we pay for the "very" in "very strongly worded"? Could we possibly have saved a few shekels and got the same result with merely "moderately strongly worded" horse manure?
OTOH... What worse could have ensued with a blunt "have at it"?
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I'm going to guess that one of the biggest results of the pullout is that the Taliban is now equipped with lots and lots of new high-tech weaponry, since we seem to have a habit of leaving all that stuff behind so that those who remain can start some schizz with their neighbors.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Amos_Umwhat said:
I'm going to guess that one of the biggest results of the pullout is that the Taliban is now equipped with lots and lots of new high-tech weaponry, since we seem to have a habit of leaving all that stuff behind so that those who remain can start some schizz with their neighbors.
Couple of their neighbors are China and Iran.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list. Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
@Amos_Umwhat said:
I'm going to guess that one of the biggest results of the pullout is that the Taliban is now equipped with lots and lots of new high-tech weaponry, since we seem to have a habit of leaving all that stuff behind so that those who remain can start some schizz with their neighbors.
Couple of their neighbors are China and Iran.
And Syria.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Amos_Umwhat said:
I'm going to guess that one of the biggest results of the pullout is that the Taliban is now equipped with lots and lots of new high-tech weaponry, since we seem to have a habit of leaving all that stuff behind so that those who remain can start some schizz with their neighbors.
Back in the 50’s & 60’s, the Soviets gave (or sold) the Egyptians a whole pile of MIG’s. We gave (or sold) them a whole pile of F-4’s in the 70’s. We even taught them how to maintain the things. When I was at Cairo West AB in Nov 1981, of the 48 Egyptian F-4’s on the base, fully 18 would never fly again, mostly as a result oft shoddy maintenance. None of the Soviet gear was usable.
I can’t speak for the entire Arab world, but from what I’ve seen in the few Arab countries I’ve been to, technology of this sort doesn’t last long. They’re very adept at cobbling stuff together, but you can’t cobble an MRAP, a Blackhawk (although Sikorsky did a fine job of precisely that with it) or a surveillance drone together and expect it to perform as it should. Perhaps it’s the prevailing Insh’Allah mindset. Basically, that loosely translates to God willing. So if Allah wills it that their gear shall work, it shall. If he doesn’t, it shan’t.
It’s a cryin’ shame how much high dollar equipment got left behind, but I’d wager 3/4 of that equipment will be virtually unusable within a year.
I'm still troubled by what I did for that Klondike bar...
I wonder how much of it will be sold to the Chinese or whomever would like to reverse engineer our goodies. I do hope we did not leave anything that would jeopardize operational security.
I think we're going to find out most of weapons were left in the hands of Afghanistan "fighting" forces. And when they cut and ran, they abandoned or sold them to the Taliban.
@VegasFrank said:
We didn't leave anything over there that will worry us, no matter who gets their hands on it.
Define us. You, me, and forum members? You're probably right.
@Trykflyr_1 is right, that anything requiring maintenance and technical skills to use will either not be used or fall into disuse quickly.
But the firearms and rocket launchers, etc., that's another story. I'm pretty sure the Taliban knows what to do with that stuff, and it might not be "us" that should be concerned, but your statement seems a bit laissez-faire.
@VegasFrank said:
We didn't leave anything over there that will worry us, no matter who gets their hands on it.
Define us. You, me, and forum members? You're probably right.
@Trykflyr_1 is right, that anything requiring maintenance and technical skills to use will either not be used or fall into disuse quickly.
But the firearms and rocket launchers, etc., that's another story. I'm pretty sure the Taliban knows what to do with that stuff, and it might not be "us" that should be concerned, but your statement seems a bit laissez-faire.
Sorry I should have clarified. The post previous to mine talked about the Chinese coming in and reverse engineering the small arms and other stuff we left over there. We,case in the department of defense, are not worried about that.
@VegasFrank said:
We didn't leave anything over there that will worry us, no matter who gets their hands on it.
Define us. You, me, and forum members? You're probably right.
@Trykflyr_1 is right, that anything requiring maintenance and technical skills to use will either not be used or fall into disuse quickly.
But the firearms and rocket launchers, etc., that's another story. I'm pretty sure the Taliban knows what to do with that stuff, and it might not be "us" that should be concerned, but your statement seems a bit laissez-faire.
Sorry I should have clarified. The post previous to mine talked about the Chinese coming in and reverse engineering the small arms and other stuff we left over there. We,case in the department of defense, are not worried about that.
We, the taxpayers, are.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list. Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
And from my government acquisition experience, I'd say that we order x units per year at a fixed price, regardless of how many are needed, used, destroyed, stolen, or left behind.
@VegasFrank has a valid point. The Chinese or anyone along those lines aren’t going to reverse engineer small arms or even squad automatic weapons. They already have a very capable rifle in the AK-47 and it’s clones. Hell, it’s one of the most exported rifles on the planet.
Any reasonably advanced country, China, Russia, Iran, etc, probably have a version of the drones we left behind. The Soviets were helicopter geniuses...most of that knowledge has been handed down already. Ground vehicles are just that... there may be some intelligence value in how they’re built to withstand things what go boom which will probably result in better boomy things from the dark side.
The biggest threat to leaving all that where it could be captured is the intel values. If this was gear destined for the Affy army to begin with, it probably didn’t have any of the high value bells & whistles options anyhow, so they got the strippy crank window, no electric lock, AM radio only version. If it were standard issue US MIl-spec stuff, the bad guys most likely got a whole lot of hardware that has good intel stuff in it...comm gear, IFF gear, sensory & telemetry type stuff... provided our guys didn’t yard it all out on a daily basis anyway so it didn’t get nicked from the motor pool overnight.
Most is probably not unknown by the dark side gangs. Even money they have their own versions of all this stuff; after all, it’s not like a UH-60 is all that advanced. The thing’s been around since the 80’s. And you’re not stealing stealth technology from a HUMVEE. Lotta dollars left there, but probably not a lot of stuff that will ever make it back across the pond from a landlocked desert country that doesn’t have the airlift capability to move any of it. Besides, there are probably more AK’s & M-16 style rifles in civilian hands here already that we left behind.
I'm still troubled by what I did for that Klondike bar...
When I was a kid it was considered shameful to collect unemployment. Then again, it was considered shameful to get divorced or live in debt. Maybe it was just a New England Puritan work ethic.
It was probably like that all over, Edward. I recall when I was maybe 6 or 7 going with my mom to a place and getting a couple of sacks of free food, must've been a food pantry, and she wanted no part of it - there was some shame involved from what my young eyes could discern. Same with divorce and debt, etc.
But you know what happens when more and more people accept/adopt a certain lifestyle or mindset; it creeps into society and becomes tolerable, and then normal. Mix into that formula a government that mistakes a mattress for a safety net (I just came up with that one, hehehe...) along with human nature to take the path of least resistance, and you have a recipe for downward mobility.
Comments
Afghanistan was a pipe dream of anything changing. Year after year you heard General after General talk about how the Afghan Army was weeks away from taking over. 20 years later they did exactly what many saw coming.
The leadership was no better in spinning **** either.
Petraeus was more worried about his own asss then those of the soldiers on the ground. How he still has not been reduced in rank is beyond me, he violated the UCMJ when he stuck his pecker in another woman. What a leader.
McCrystal was more concerned with shutting down the fast food places in Afghanistan than actually fighting a war.
The list goes on and on. Once they retire they go on tv giving expert analysis on how to win in Afghan. Yet when they where in charge they had no solution other than troop surges and cash.
This was a complete joke of an effort if there ever was one.
Never had an entrance plan and 20 years later they didn't have an exit one either.
Trillions of dollars wasted, countless lives lost and at the end of the day the Taliban which only controlled the southern part of the country 20 years ago, now controls the entire country without hardly firing a shot.
Insane.
"I ain't got no Opus's"
LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
2016 Gang War (South)
May I assss u a ?
Biggest failure is not realizing the Taliban will always be the Taliban, rooted in the medieval.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
I bet he can't remember saying that.
Trapped in the People's Communits Republic of Massachusetts.
Well at least he said it....None of the others ever did.
Question: How much did we pay for the "very" in "very strongly worded"? Could we possibly have saved a few shekels and got the same result with merely "moderately strongly worded" horse manure?
OTOH... What worse could have ensued with a blunt "have at it"?
Expect in one hand....
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I'm going to guess that one of the biggest results of the pullout is that the Taliban is now equipped with lots and lots of new high-tech weaponry, since we seem to have a habit of leaving all that stuff behind so that those who remain can start some schizz with their neighbors.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Couple of their neighbors are China and Iran.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
And Syria.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
And DC...
Back in the 50’s & 60’s, the Soviets gave (or sold) the Egyptians a whole pile of MIG’s. We gave (or sold) them a whole pile of F-4’s in the 70’s. We even taught them how to maintain the things. When I was at Cairo West AB in Nov 1981, of the 48 Egyptian F-4’s on the base, fully 18 would never fly again, mostly as a result oft shoddy maintenance. None of the Soviet gear was usable.
I can’t speak for the entire Arab world, but from what I’ve seen in the few Arab countries I’ve been to, technology of this sort doesn’t last long. They’re very adept at cobbling stuff together, but you can’t cobble an MRAP, a Blackhawk (although Sikorsky did a fine job of precisely that with it) or a surveillance drone together and expect it to perform as it should. Perhaps it’s the prevailing Insh’Allah mindset. Basically, that loosely translates to God willing. So if Allah wills it that their gear shall work, it shall. If he doesn’t, it shan’t.
It’s a cryin’ shame how much high dollar equipment got left behind, but I’d wager 3/4 of that equipment will be virtually unusable within a year.
I wonder how much of it will be sold to the Chinese or whomever would like to reverse engineer our goodies. I do hope we did not leave anything that would jeopardize operational security.
We didn't leave anything over there that will worry us, no matter who gets their hands on it.
I think we're going to find out most of weapons were left in the hands of Afghanistan "fighting" forces. And when they cut and ran, they abandoned or sold them to the Taliban.
Taliban is going around rounding up weapons from the populace, imagine that.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
Define us. You, me, and forum members? You're probably right.
@Trykflyr_1 is right, that anything requiring maintenance and technical skills to use will either not be used or fall into disuse quickly.
But the firearms and rocket launchers, etc., that's another story. I'm pretty sure the Taliban knows what to do with that stuff, and it might not be "us" that should be concerned, but your statement seems a bit laissez-faire.
Sorry I should have clarified. The post previous to mine talked about the Chinese coming in and reverse engineering the small arms and other stuff we left over there. We,case in the department of defense, are not worried about that.
We, the taxpayers, are.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
A Billion here, a Billion there. Pretty soon you're talking real money
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
It probably costs more to bring home than it does to rebuild
And from my government acquisition experience, I'd say that we order x units per year at a fixed price, regardless of how many are needed, used, destroyed, stolen, or left behind.
I wouldn't be surprised.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
@VegasFrank has a valid point. The Chinese or anyone along those lines aren’t going to reverse engineer small arms or even squad automatic weapons. They already have a very capable rifle in the AK-47 and it’s clones. Hell, it’s one of the most exported rifles on the planet.
Any reasonably advanced country, China, Russia, Iran, etc, probably have a version of the drones we left behind. The Soviets were helicopter geniuses...most of that knowledge has been handed down already. Ground vehicles are just that... there may be some intelligence value in how they’re built to withstand things what go boom which will probably result in better boomy things from the dark side.
The biggest threat to leaving all that where it could be captured is the intel values. If this was gear destined for the Affy army to begin with, it probably didn’t have any of the high value bells & whistles options anyhow, so they got the strippy crank window, no electric lock, AM radio only version. If it were standard issue US MIl-spec stuff, the bad guys most likely got a whole lot of hardware that has good intel stuff in it...comm gear, IFF gear, sensory & telemetry type stuff... provided our guys didn’t yard it all out on a daily basis anyway so it didn’t get nicked from the motor pool overnight.
Most is probably not unknown by the dark side gangs. Even money they have their own versions of all this stuff; after all, it’s not like a UH-60 is all that advanced. The thing’s been around since the 80’s. And you’re not stealing stealth technology from a HUMVEE. Lotta dollars left there, but probably not a lot of stuff that will ever make it back across the pond from a landlocked desert country that doesn’t have the airlift capability to move any of it. Besides, there are probably more AK’s & M-16 style rifles in civilian hands here already that we left behind.
Depends on what it is and the technology used.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
How stupid are we?
Hmm. We reward those who choose not to work.
Seems pretty F***ing stupid to me.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
FIFY
Trapped in the People's Communits Republic of Massachusetts.
When I was a kid it was considered shameful to collect unemployment. Then again, it was considered shameful to get divorced or live in debt. Maybe it was just a New England Puritan work ethic.
It was probably like that all over, Edward. I recall when I was maybe 6 or 7 going with my mom to a place and getting a couple of sacks of free food, must've been a food pantry, and she wanted no part of it - there was some shame involved from what my young eyes could discern. Same with divorce and debt, etc.
But you know what happens when more and more people accept/adopt a certain lifestyle or mindset; it creeps into society and becomes tolerable, and then normal. Mix into that formula a government that mistakes a mattress for a safety net (I just came up with that one, hehehe...) along with human nature to take the path of least resistance, and you have a recipe for downward mobility.