If I wasn't already pregnant, I would have this man's baby
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
As you prolly know or figured out, I'm pro vax and pro mask, and I respect your own choice. However, the top blue box contains tainted data. Sure it's true that people infected or two and a half times more likely to get reinfected than someone who has had a shot. But there's bad data in that number. Some people are more likely to get infected is because they don't take initial precautions in the first place. They don't mask, the congregate in big groups, they don't Wash their hands, etc.
Those people are always more likely to re-acquire the disease whether or not they're vaccinated.
It's like saying 20-year-olds in Lamborghinis are more likely to get into accidents than 40-year-olds in Camrys. It's probably true because the 20-year-old who owns a Lamborghini is a complete douchebag and drives recklessly.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
As you prolly know or figured out, I'm pro vax and pro mask, and I respect your own choice. However, the top blue box contains tainted data. Sure it's true that people infected or two and a half times more likely to get reinfected than someone who has had a shot. But there's bad data in that number. Some people are more likely to get infected is because they don't take initial precautions in the first place. They don't mask, the congregate in big groups, they don't Wash their hands, etc.
Those people are always more likely to re-acquire the disease whether or not they're vaccinated.
It's like saying 20-year-olds in Lamborghinis are more likely to get into accidents than 40-year-olds in Camrys. It's probably true because the 20-year-old who owns a Lamborghini is a complete douchebag and drives recklessly.
This man’s logic is based on science and not opinion, burn em!
@VegasFrank - appreciate the insight and completely agree that they didn't take into account the "lifestyle" choices made by each group in the paper. If they had, I'm sure the data might look slightly different but the overarching point remains that it's important to get as many people vaccinated as we can if we're ever to reach herd immunity.
I'm just tired of all the completely unsubstantiated BS excuses for not getting vaccinated.
"I'm waiting to see how safe it is" - The data is there. If you don't know how to read or can't understand big words, then it's time to trust in Scientists. Would you take your car to a plumber if it started making funny noises? Then why do you trust non-scientists to interpret scientific data or make scientific decisions for you?
"The virus has only a 2% chance of dying" - OK, big guy. I'm gonna give you 100 M&Ms but 2 of them are laced with enough ricin to kill you instantly. It's only a 2% chance you'll die. How many of those M&Ms are you gonna eat, tough guy?
"I'm not getting it because 'they' want me to" - Grow up, toddler. If you're scared of needles, just admit it and we'll get you a blankie and a band-aid for your boo boo.
"The vaccine causes infertility" - There's no evidence at all to support this wild claim. And don't come back with "you can't prove it doesn't cause infertility" because I also can't prove you don't have sex with donkeys, so I might as well start that rumor.
"The vaccine was rushed and hasn't gone through the proper safety vetting" - It was not rushed and all safety precautions were taken. Studies were run concurrently (that means at the same time - I know, big words for little people) rather than sequentially (one after the other). The vaccine is safe and 100s of millions of people are living proof of that.
"The vaccine isn't totally effective" - no system is perfect. Read up on evolution. The human form is so flawed, it's ridiculous. It's effective. It doesn't have to be perfect.
"I can still spread the virus even if I'm vaccinated" - yes, there is still a small chance you may be able to spread the virus if you're vaccinated but it's greatly reduced compared to unvaccinated individuals, so we all need to do what's right for the greater good. If you're vaccinated and everyone around you is as well, there is a significantly reduced chance that the virus will be able to continue to spread and take hold. If we continue down the current path, the next variant will be worse than the delta variant and it's only a matter of time.
"They're injecting people with microchips/alien DNA/other bs inserted here. Or This is all a big plan by Bill Gates and George Soros to depopulate the world" - Just, no. On second thought, here's some M&Ms.
As for it being a personal choice, that's no longer a valid argument when it's a global public health crisis. If you want to go that route: Drunk driving should be a personal choice. Large explosive devices in public places should be a personal choice. Poisoning public waterways should be a personal choice. You know what....here, take some M&Ms.
I try and stay out of this.... But here's my opinion ......Go ask your doctor if you should get the shot or not and why.
I did and she told me I should, so I did.
I've trusted her to have my best health interests for the last ten years....Can't say the same for the politicians/media/internet.
I know I'm to dumb to figure this out for myself with so much information and disinformation going on out there
@Rob1110 said: @VegasFrank - appreciate the insight and completely agree that they didn't take into account the "lifestyle" choices made by each group in the paper. If they had, I'm sure the data might look slightly different but the overarching point remains that it's important to get as many people vaccinated as we can if we're ever to reach herd immunity.
I'm just tired of all the completely unsubstantiated BS excuses for not getting vaccinated.
"I'm waiting to see how safe it is" - The data is there. If you don't know how to read or can't understand big words, then it's time to trust in Scientists. Would you take your car to a plumber if it started making funny noises? Then why do you trust non-scientists to interpret scientific data or make scientific decisions for you?
"The virus has only a 2% chance of dying" - OK, big guy. I'm gonna give you 100 M&Ms but 2 of them are laced with enough ricin to kill you instantly. It's only a 2% chance you'll die. How many of those M&Ms are you gonna eat, tough guy?
"I'm not getting it because 'they' want me to" - Grow up, toddler. If you're scared of needles, just admit it and we'll get you a blankie and a band-aid for your boo boo.
"The vaccine causes infertility" - There's no evidence at all to support this wild claim. And don't come back with "you can't prove it doesn't cause infertility" because I also can't prove you don't have sex with donkeys, so I might as well start that rumor.
"The vaccine was rushed and hasn't gone through the proper safety vetting" - It was not rushed and all safety precautions were taken. Studies were run concurrently (that means at the same time - I know, big words for little people) rather than sequentially (one after the other). The vaccine is safe and 100s of millions of people are living proof of that.
"The vaccine isn't totally effective" - no system is perfect. Read up on evolution. The human form is so flawed, it's ridiculous. It's effective. It doesn't have to be perfect.
"I can still spread the virus even if I'm vaccinated" - yes, there is still a small chance you may be able to spread the virus if you're vaccinated but it's greatly reduced compared to unvaccinated individuals, so we all need to do what's right for the greater good. If you're vaccinated and everyone around you is as well, there is a significantly reduced chance that the virus will be able to continue to spread and take hold. If we continue down the current path, the next variant will be worse than the delta variant and it's only a matter of time.
"They're injecting people with microchips/alien DNA/other bs inserted here. Or This is all a big plan by Bill Gates and George Soros to depopulate the world" - Just, no. On second thought, here's some M&Ms.
As for it being a personal choice, that's no longer a valid argument when it's a global public health crisis. If you want to go that route: Drunk driving should be a personal choice. Large explosive devices in public places should be a personal choice. Poisoning public waterways should be a personal choice. You know what....here, take some M&Ms.
I agree with the principle of all of your points, but I don't have the same vitriol that you do. I don't let the maskflakes and vaxflakes get to me.
But I do agree with the guy in the video. Go ahead and live your life, then STOP RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN YOU CANT BREATHE.
You can't breathe? That's ironic AF. I once saw a t-shirt with that phrase on it. 😂😂😆😆😆😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@Rob1110 said: @VegasFrank - appreciate the insight and completely agree that they didn't take into account the "lifestyle" choices made by each group in the paper. If they had, I'm sure the data might look slightly different but the overarching point remains that it's important to get as many people vaccinated as we can if we're ever to reach herd immunity.
I'm just tired of all the completely unsubstantiated BS excuses for not getting vaccinated.
"I'm waiting to see how safe it is" - The data is there. If you don't know how to read or can't understand big words, then it's time to trust in Scientists. Would you take your car to a plumber if it started making funny noises? Then why do you trust non-scientists to interpret scientific data or make scientific decisions for you?
"The virus has only a 2% chance of dying" - OK, big guy. I'm gonna give you 100 M&Ms but 2 of them are laced with enough ricin to kill you instantly. It's only a 2% chance you'll die. How many of those M&Ms are you gonna eat, tough guy?
"I'm not getting it because 'they' want me to" - Grow up, toddler. If you're scared of needles, just admit it and we'll get you a blankie and a band-aid for your boo boo.
"The vaccine causes infertility" - There's no evidence at all to support this wild claim. And don't come back with "you can't prove it doesn't cause infertility" because I also can't prove you don't have sex with donkeys, so I might as well start that rumor.
"The vaccine was rushed and hasn't gone through the proper safety vetting" - It was not rushed and all safety precautions were taken. Studies were run concurrently (that means at the same time - I know, big words for little people) rather than sequentially (one after the other). The vaccine is safe and 100s of millions of people are living proof of that.
"The vaccine isn't totally effective" - no system is perfect. Read up on evolution. The human form is so flawed, it's ridiculous. It's effective. It doesn't have to be perfect.
"I can still spread the virus even if I'm vaccinated" - yes, there is still a small chance you may be able to spread the virus if you're vaccinated but it's greatly reduced compared to unvaccinated individuals, so we all need to do what's right for the greater good. If you're vaccinated and everyone around you is as well, there is a significantly reduced chance that the virus will be able to continue to spread and take hold. If we continue down the current path, the next variant will be worse than the delta variant and it's only a matter of time.
"They're injecting people with microchips/alien DNA/other bs inserted here. Or This is all a big plan by Bill Gates and George Soros to depopulate the world" - Just, no. On second thought, here's some M&Ms.
As for it being a personal choice, that's no longer a valid argument when it's a global public health crisis. If you want to go that route: Drunk driving should be a personal choice. Large explosive devices in public places should be a personal choice. Poisoning public waterways should be a personal choice. You know what....here, take some M&Ms.
I agree with the principle of all of your points, but I don't have the same vitriol that you do. I don't let the maskflakes and vaxflakes get to me.
But I do agree with the guy in the video. Go ahead and live your life, then STOP RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN YOU CANT BREATHE.
You can't breathe? That's ironic AF. I once saw a t-shirt with that phrase on it. 😂😂😆😆😆😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I agree with the video to an extent, but I do fail to see the humor in death
@VegasFrank said:
But I do agree with the guy in the video. Go ahead and live your life, then STOP RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN YOU CANT BREATHE.
You can't breathe? That's ironic AF. I once saw a t-shirt with that phrase on it. 😂😂😆😆😆😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Let's follow that logic and ask, "What will I do if my cigar smoking is what caused my emphysema?" Will I too sit home and suffocate because it was my choice to ruin my health?
There are a lot of things we do and risks we take in our everyday lives; who's gonna determine what problems and/or health issues should be taken care of and when care should be denied.
Saw this online today and made sense to me... should make sense regardless if you're pro- or anti- vaccine.
I understand why people are okay with the practical goal of mandating a medical treatment that you think is a good idea. But I don't understand why even those people agree with the principle that the government should be able to mandate medical treatment against the individual’s wishes.
Is it really that hard to imagine a scenario where you, the pro-mandate vaxxer, for right or wrong, are on the receiving end of the same treatment — say, from a politician or administration that you don't like or think is dangerous, or regarding a medical intervention that you think is unwarranted or too risky? You really want the next Trump, or Rumsfeld, or Cheney (or Stalin, or Hitler, or Mao) to be able to wield the power of the state, or leverage the coercion of private enterprise, against your conscience? Really?
The only way to prevent that from happening — the only way to avoid being at the receiving end of a medical syringe administered against your will by a state jackboot — is to refuse the principle now, even if you agree that vaccines are a good idea and everyone should get them.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
Just to argue with the M&M analogy... That would be a 2% chance per M&M. Think of it more like a bee allergy. 5%-7% of the population has sever reaction to beestings. The first time you are stung your body builds an immune response to the venom. The 2nd time you are stung, you find out if your bodies immune response protected you or not. If it did, a bee-sting is an annoyance, but not a life threatening event. If it didn't, you spend the rest of your life protecting yourself from bees.
there is a 2% chance that your body will not provide proper protection. There is a 98% chance that it will. Just like we don't throw our kids into a bee's nest to see what happens, you also can and should take every step to protect yourself just in case you are in the 2%. HOWEVER (and here is where I argue with people) there are people who have caught Covid, and know that they are not in that 2%. These people are not in the wrong for asking for more information.
I expect to see some disagrees on this, but I absolutely hate the term anti-vax. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine can provide extra protection for those who need it or want it. I have verifiably caught Covid twice, and know that I am not in the 2%. It is an inconvenience for me. I do work around a lot of people, and the simple fact that a vaccinated person CAN spread Covid, is enough to make me not wish to get the vaccine. I would like to know when I am sick and be able to avoid people. If I don't feel any symptoms due to a vaccination, but am still spreading a virus, then I would feel like I am selfishly giving up my comfort to the risk and detriment of those around me. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe that there are computer chips in the vaccine. I personally feel like the risk of potentially fatal heart swelling is worse FOR ME than being sick for a week or so.
Congratulations! You are not allergic to bee's, but you should eat one of these M&M's to make sure... I'm good. This is a personal choice, and I'm tired of feeling attacked for it by people who have often put less thought into it than they accuse me of.
Edit: I also don't feel that masks do anything, but I wear mine when I am asked or required, because I'm not a flaming @sshole.
"Cooking isn't about struggling; It's about pleasure. It's like sǝx, with a wider variety of sauces."
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
A celebrated epicure in Italy was devastated when Covid-19 first stole, then warped his sense of taste. Through training, Michele Crippa has recaptured some of it and is now on a quest to aid others.
A friend at work has given me **** for months because I go the vaccine. His family of four went to the beach at the end of July. His daughter didn’t get covid, his wife did and has been in and out of the ER. His son is 14 and spent three days in the hospital. My buddy has been in for almost two weeks, he’s still on oxygen and isn’t sure how long he he have to use it right now.
I don’t believe we should deny or force health care because I see it as a basic human right to make your own decision. He understood he was taking a gamble. Some of us accept our bad luck and take precautions
I am getting my second shot Sunday. Who knows what to believe but I figured my health is pretty good so what can it hurt plus if it helps anyone else that much better.
I have verifiably caught Covid twice, and know that I am not in the 2%. It is an inconvenience for me. I do work around a lot of people, and the simple fact that a vaccinated person CAN spread Covid, is enough to make me not wish to get the vaccine. I would like to know when I am sick and be able to avoid people. If I don't feel any symptoms due to a vaccination, but am still spreading a virus, then I would feel like I am selfishly giving up my comfort to the risk and detriment of those around me.
^^Wylaff
Not arguing with you. You do you, but since you've already had Covid, you're already in the category that can carry it without knowing. Heck, people who never had it are doing that as well, unbeknownst to them.
Me? I had it, prior to the March '20 revelation of what it was. Thought I just had the worst case of flu ever, and was really perplexed that I couldn't seem to smell a dang thing.
Then, when the vaccine came out, I got vaccinated. I'll be happy to do that again when the time comes, just like the flu shot.
Why?
Because I worked ICU and ER for > 20 years, and I know a LOT of people who've had to deal with it from the Health Care end. They all tell me it's a horrible death to witness. I'll do my part, even though I already know I'm not in the 2%. It's not just about me.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Wylaff said:
Just to argue with the M&M analogy... That would be a 2% chance per M&M. Think of it more like a bee allergy. 5%-7% of the population has sever reaction to beestings. The first time you are stung your body builds an immune response to the venom. The 2nd time you are stung, you find out if your bodies immune response protected you or not. If it did, a bee-sting is an annoyance, but not a life threatening event. If it didn't, you spend the rest of your life protecting yourself from bees.
there is a 2% chance that your body will not provide proper protection. There is a 98% chance that it will. Just like we don't throw our kids into a bee's nest to see what happens, you also can and should take every step to protect yourself just in case you are in the 2%. HOWEVER (and here is where I argue with people) there are people who have caught Covid, and know that they are not in that 2%. These people are not in the wrong for asking for more information.
I expect to see some disagrees on this, but I absolutely hate the term anti-vax. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine can provide extra protection for those who need it or want it. I have verifiably caught Covid twice, and know that I am not in the 2%. It is an inconvenience for me. I do work around a lot of people, and the simple fact that a vaccinated person CAN spread Covid, is enough to make me not wish to get the vaccine. I would like to know when I am sick and be able to avoid people. If I don't feel any symptoms due to a vaccination, but am still spreading a virus, then I would feel like I am selfishly giving up my comfort to the risk and detriment of those around me. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe that there are computer chips in the vaccine. I personally feel like the risk of potentially fatal heart swelling is worse FOR ME than being sick for a week or so.
Congratulations! You are not allergic to bee's, but you should eat one of these M&M's to make sure... I'm good. This is a personal choice, and I'm tired of feeling attacked for it by people who have often put less thought into it than they accuse me of.
Edit: I also don't feel that masks do anything, but I wear mine when I am asked or required, because I'm not a flaming @sshole.
I can live with most of what you said here, but I have some food for thought:
I don't think it's 100 percent that if you've caught covid and survived, that you're guaranteed to survive the second (or third, etc.) time. Many factors can and do contribute. There may be a future variant, like Delta, echo, Lima, or Zulu, that could theoretically be more deadly than the variant you had. While it's not statistically likely, it's absolutely possible.
Any non vaxxer (not anti) can and do spread covid to high risk people who can and do die from covid. Think heart transplant recipients, who can't vax, or other high risk people who dis vax with a previous variant that is not effective against the current variant. There are many transplant patients in regular life. My son has 3 heart transplant kids in his class! We've seen outbreaks of meningitis and measles recently (last 10 years) in Cali and other places because of the anti vaxxers trend with infant and childhood vaccinations.
Who is @sshole? I wish I'd have thought of that username!
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@VegasFrank said:
But I do agree with the guy in the video. Go ahead and live your life, then STOP RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN YOU CANT BREATHE.
You can't breathe? That's ironic AF. I once saw a t-shirt with that phrase on it. 😂😂😆😆😆😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
Let's follow that logic and ask, "What will I do if my cigar smoking is what caused my emphysema?" Will I too sit home and suffocate because it was my choice to ruin my health?
There are a lot of things we do and risks we take in our everyday lives; who's gonna determine what problems and/or health issues should be taken care of and when care should be denied.
Good point. I guess my counterpoint would be that I'm not running to the ER because of emphysema, along with all of the other cigar smokers who caught emphysema at the same time, forcing people with non immediate life threatening bullet wounds to be told to go home with Advi.
l guess that's a convoluted way of saying that non vaxxers are overrunning ERs, and this is causing other emergency patients to receive delayed or substandard care. That's the big problem, And since the CDC says that 99 percent of all ER Covid patients haven't been vaccinated, it kind of puts the ball in their court.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
This Alert showed up on the phone today. Has anyone else had these show up? Never thought I'd see bribery being used to persuade anyone to get vaccinated.
If you quote me do the @TX98Z28 in your text or I won't be notified of your quote, Thanks.
I get all sorts of texts on my work iPhone offering me money, but they're all malicious. I don't use my work # for any personal accounts so I can safely ignore them all.
Here's a site to help retrain your sense of smell. Explains how to do the retraining process and make your own kits.
@Cam_91 - I bet she was a model student in biology class. Definitely didn't sleep through class at all. I heard if you're not vaccinated, **** will stick to you. She should try it out.
@Wylaff - the point was lost about the m&ms but you mentioned people not being in the wrong for asking for more information. What sort of information would you be interested in?
Whether you call it anti-vax, non-vax, un-vax, etc, it's all semantics. If you're against vaccines or even this vaccine in particular, there's a reason for it. What's the reason?
As for "risk of potentially fatal heart swelling" - that's not exactly accurate:
"Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is the inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart. The most common causes include infections; however, it can also be caused by medications or underlying conditions. It can improve on its own or with the use of anti-inflammatory medications. In mild cases, avoiding exercise is recommended. More severe cases require additional treatment.
ACIP recently met to weigh the risks and benefits of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine for those aged 12-29. Based on a comprehensive discussion of the data, the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine continues to be recommended to those of young age as the benefits clearly outweigh the risks of rare occurrences of myocarditis.
Guidelines were provided by the CDC & FDA. The majority of reports of myocarditis occurred after dose 2, but in the case of myocarditis after the first dose, it is recommended to wait for further information before receiving the second dose. This recommendation is for those not in areas with high community transmission area or not at risk of severe COVID-19.
About 252 million doses of mRNA vaccines have been administered in the US, with 52 million of them amongst those aged 12-29. 484 cases (≤30 y/o) were evaluated by the CDC. Most symptoms appear within 7 days of vaccination, and the majority of cases were mild. Even amongst groups where the incidence was highest, the occurrence is still exceedingly rare (0.0063%).
As a result, vaccination is still highly recommended in all groups, particularly as the school year approaches and Delta continues to spread rapidly amongst the unvaccinated.
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Sources: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm... https://www.mayoclinic.org/.../symptoms-causes/syc-20352539 https://www.cdc.gov/.../clin.../covid-19-vaccines-us.html... https://www.aappublications.org/.../acip-covid... https://www.health.harvard.edu/.../new-information-for..." - Unbiased Science
Additional points have already been made that you're already potentially putting other unvaccinated people at risk IF you have lasting, natural immunity (the virus was not eradicated by your innate immune system and allowed your adaptive/acquired immune system to build memory B/T cell response through Abs), as your symptoms will likely be lessened to some extent if you are exposed to SARS-CoV2 again.
The point of getting everyone vaccinated that can safely do so is to protect those people around us (such as the immunocompromised) that can't be vaccinated.
I'm not going to argue the effect of mask wearing in the appropriate situation (crowded or confined spaces with no to poor ventilation where 1 or more people may not be vaccinated), as science has already shown data on this.
I'm sorry if you've felt personally attacked at any point but as someone who has made science my career, I stand behind it. I'd be happy to have an open discussion (on the forum or privately) to try to address any concerns or questions you may have about the vaccine. If I can't answer a question, I'm happy to admit it but will look to the right sources to try to find the answer for you. A willingness to learn and question your own understanding of a subject is always appreciated.
First off, my new position requires vaccination, so I am getting it.
But... The only answer I have been able to find as to why previously infected individuals needs to be vaccinated is that antibodies fade. This is followed up by seeing that the vaccine does not trigger antibodies, but instead builds B and T cells. The only studies I have been able to find on B and T cells are all saying that previously infected individuals do develop T cells, and that the vaccine triggers comparable T cells. All of the verbiage on all of the communications is so emotional charged and full of "scare tactic" language, that I do not feel as though I am being presented with clear, unbiased information. "You need to be vaccinated because we don't think natural immunity will last forever." Fine. I support that. But there is no evidence that vaccine immunity lasts forever either. Last I saw (I can't find anything newer) breakthrough infection rate and reinfection rate are comparable. I personally just want to see unbiased, non-partisan, non-emotional data that shows the reasoning behind a bunch of random people screaming that it needs to be done for "reasons..."
"Cooking isn't about struggling; It's about pleasure. It's like sǝx, with a wider variety of sauces."
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
I've heard of studies that say 100 year old survivors of the Spanish flu epidemic still have T cell immunity, it's a fairly closely related virus. Chances if getting any unbiased information from any source is slim.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
In case you are not fearful enough (lol) here's a paper from a strongly anti-vax immunologist. His bias may be skewing the conclusions and it is not yet peer reviewed:
I read an article last week. Back in the nineties there was only six coronavirus known to infect humans. So scientists here in the US modified a common animal version to infect humans and see the results. Interestingly most of the test subjects didn’t even get the sniffles. The test was repeated the next year. Same results. They concluded that the six known to infect man had been around so long that there was a natural immunity built up in the population.
I wish I could find the article again but with so many researchers admitting to fudging data believe what you will.
Comments
For the disagree, please state your objections. I’m curious
If I wasn't already pregnant, I would have this man's baby
As you prolly know or figured out, I'm pro vax and pro mask, and I respect your own choice. However, the top blue box contains tainted data. Sure it's true that people infected or two and a half times more likely to get reinfected than someone who has had a shot. But there's bad data in that number. Some people are more likely to get infected is because they don't take initial precautions in the first place. They don't mask, the congregate in big groups, they don't Wash their hands, etc.
Those people are always more likely to re-acquire the disease whether or not they're vaccinated.
It's like saying 20-year-olds in Lamborghinis are more likely to get into accidents than 40-year-olds in Camrys. It's probably true because the 20-year-old who owns a Lamborghini is a complete douchebag and drives recklessly.
But mine was not one of the disagrees.
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is.
Winston Churchill
This man’s logic is based on science and not opinion, burn em!
@VegasFrank - appreciate the insight and completely agree that they didn't take into account the "lifestyle" choices made by each group in the paper. If they had, I'm sure the data might look slightly different but the overarching point remains that it's important to get as many people vaccinated as we can if we're ever to reach herd immunity.
I'm just tired of all the completely unsubstantiated BS excuses for not getting vaccinated.
"I'm waiting to see how safe it is" - The data is there. If you don't know how to read or can't understand big words, then it's time to trust in Scientists. Would you take your car to a plumber if it started making funny noises? Then why do you trust non-scientists to interpret scientific data or make scientific decisions for you?
"The virus has only a 2% chance of dying" - OK, big guy. I'm gonna give you 100 M&Ms but 2 of them are laced with enough ricin to kill you instantly. It's only a 2% chance you'll die. How many of those M&Ms are you gonna eat, tough guy?
"I'm not getting it because 'they' want me to" - Grow up, toddler. If you're scared of needles, just admit it and we'll get you a blankie and a band-aid for your boo boo.
"The vaccine causes infertility" - There's no evidence at all to support this wild claim. And don't come back with "you can't prove it doesn't cause infertility" because I also can't prove you don't have sex with donkeys, so I might as well start that rumor.
"The vaccine was rushed and hasn't gone through the proper safety vetting" - It was not rushed and all safety precautions were taken. Studies were run concurrently (that means at the same time - I know, big words for little people) rather than sequentially (one after the other). The vaccine is safe and 100s of millions of people are living proof of that.
"The vaccine isn't totally effective" - no system is perfect. Read up on evolution. The human form is so flawed, it's ridiculous. It's effective. It doesn't have to be perfect.
"I can still spread the virus even if I'm vaccinated" - yes, there is still a small chance you may be able to spread the virus if you're vaccinated but it's greatly reduced compared to unvaccinated individuals, so we all need to do what's right for the greater good. If you're vaccinated and everyone around you is as well, there is a significantly reduced chance that the virus will be able to continue to spread and take hold. If we continue down the current path, the next variant will be worse than the delta variant and it's only a matter of time.
"They're injecting people with microchips/alien DNA/other bs inserted here. Or This is all a big plan by Bill Gates and George Soros to depopulate the world" - Just, no. On second thought, here's some M&Ms.
As for it being a personal choice, that's no longer a valid argument when it's a global public health crisis. If you want to go that route: Drunk driving should be a personal choice. Large explosive devices in public places should be a personal choice. Poisoning public waterways should be a personal choice. You know what....here, take some M&Ms.
I try and stay out of this.... But here's my opinion ......Go ask your doctor if you should get the shot or not and why.
I did and she told me I should, so I did.
I've trusted her to have my best health interests for the last ten years....Can't say the same for the politicians/media/internet.
I know I'm to dumb to figure this out for myself with so much information and disinformation going on out there
I agree with the principle of all of your points, but I don't have the same vitriol that you do. I don't let the maskflakes and vaxflakes get to me.
But I do agree with the guy in the video. Go ahead and live your life, then STOP RUNNING TO THE HOSPITAL WHEN YOU CANT BREATHE.
You can't breathe? That's ironic AF. I once saw a t-shirt with that phrase on it. 😂😂😆😆😆😂😂😂😂😂😂😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆😆
I agree with the video to an extent, but I do fail to see the humor in death
Let's follow that logic and ask, "What will I do if my cigar smoking is what caused my emphysema?" Will I too sit home and suffocate because it was my choice to ruin my health?
There are a lot of things we do and risks we take in our everyday lives; who's gonna determine what problems and/or health issues should be taken care of and when care should be denied.
Saw this online today and made sense to me... should make sense regardless if you're pro- or anti- vaccine.
I understand why people are okay with the practical goal of mandating a medical treatment that you think is a good idea. But I don't understand why even those people agree with the principle that the government should be able to mandate medical treatment against the individual’s wishes.
Is it really that hard to imagine a scenario where you, the pro-mandate vaxxer, for right or wrong, are on the receiving end of the same treatment — say, from a politician or administration that you don't like or think is dangerous, or regarding a medical intervention that you think is unwarranted or too risky? You really want the next Trump, or Rumsfeld, or Cheney (or Stalin, or Hitler, or Mao) to be able to wield the power of the state, or leverage the coercion of private enterprise, against your conscience? Really?
The only way to prevent that from happening — the only way to avoid being at the receiving end of a medical syringe administered against your will by a state jackboot — is to refuse the principle now, even if you agree that vaccines are a good idea and everyone should get them.
Aptly put.
Just to argue with the M&M analogy... That would be a 2% chance per M&M. Think of it more like a bee allergy. 5%-7% of the population has sever reaction to beestings. The first time you are stung your body builds an immune response to the venom. The 2nd time you are stung, you find out if your bodies immune response protected you or not. If it did, a bee-sting is an annoyance, but not a life threatening event. If it didn't, you spend the rest of your life protecting yourself from bees.
there is a 2% chance that your body will not provide proper protection. There is a 98% chance that it will. Just like we don't throw our kids into a bee's nest to see what happens, you also can and should take every step to protect yourself just in case you are in the 2%. HOWEVER (and here is where I argue with people) there are people who have caught Covid, and know that they are not in that 2%. These people are not in the wrong for asking for more information.
I expect to see some disagrees on this, but I absolutely hate the term anti-vax. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine can provide extra protection for those who need it or want it. I have verifiably caught Covid twice, and know that I am not in the 2%. It is an inconvenience for me. I do work around a lot of people, and the simple fact that a vaccinated person CAN spread Covid, is enough to make me not wish to get the vaccine. I would like to know when I am sick and be able to avoid people. If I don't feel any symptoms due to a vaccination, but am still spreading a virus, then I would feel like I am selfishly giving up my comfort to the risk and detriment of those around me. I am not a conspiracy theorist. I don't believe that there are computer chips in the vaccine. I personally feel like the risk of potentially fatal heart swelling is worse FOR ME than being sick for a week or so.
Congratulations! You are not allergic to bee's, but you should eat one of these M&M's to make sure... I'm good. This is a personal choice, and I'm tired of feeling attacked for it by people who have often put less thought into it than they accuse me of.
Edit: I also don't feel that masks do anything, but I wear mine when I am asked or required, because I'm not a flaming @sshole.
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
A celebrated epicure in Italy was devastated when Covid-19 first stole, then warped his sense of taste. Through training, Michele Crippa has recaptured some of it and is now on a quest to aid others.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/20/world/europe/italy-coronavirus-sense-of-smell.html
Spittin them facts
A friend at work has given me **** for months because I go the vaccine. His family of four went to the beach at the end of July. His daughter didn’t get covid, his wife did and has been in and out of the ER. His son is 14 and spent three days in the hospital. My buddy has been in for almost two weeks, he’s still on oxygen and isn’t sure how long he he have to use it right now.
I don’t believe we should deny or force health care because I see it as a basic human right to make your own decision. He understood he was taking a gamble. Some of us accept our bad luck and take precautions
I am getting my second shot Sunday. Who knows what to believe but I figured my health is pretty good so what can it hurt plus if it helps anyone else that much better.
fixed it for ya.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
I have verifiably caught Covid twice, and know that I am not in the 2%. It is an inconvenience for me. I do work around a lot of people, and the simple fact that a vaccinated person CAN spread Covid, is enough to make me not wish to get the vaccine. I would like to know when I am sick and be able to avoid people. If I don't feel any symptoms due to a vaccination, but am still spreading a virus, then I would feel like I am selfishly giving up my comfort to the risk and detriment of those around me.
^^Wylaff
Not arguing with you. You do you, but since you've already had Covid, you're already in the category that can carry it without knowing. Heck, people who never had it are doing that as well, unbeknownst to them.
Me? I had it, prior to the March '20 revelation of what it was. Thought I just had the worst case of flu ever, and was really perplexed that I couldn't seem to smell a dang thing.
Then, when the vaccine came out, I got vaccinated. I'll be happy to do that again when the time comes, just like the flu shot.
Why?
Because I worked ICU and ER for > 20 years, and I know a LOT of people who've had to deal with it from the Health Care end. They all tell me it's a horrible death to witness. I'll do my part, even though I already know I'm not in the 2%. It's not just about me.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I can live with most of what you said here, but I have some food for thought:
Who is @sshole? I wish I'd have thought of that username!
Good point. I guess my counterpoint would be that I'm not running to the ER because of emphysema, along with all of the other cigar smokers who caught emphysema at the same time, forcing people with non immediate life threatening bullet wounds to be told to go home with Advi.
l guess that's a convoluted way of saying that non vaxxers are overrunning ERs, and this is causing other emergency patients to receive delayed or substandard care. That's the big problem, And since the CDC says that 99 percent of all ER Covid patients haven't been vaccinated, it kind of puts the ball in their court.
No delusions. These are the same agreements I had with my coworker. I tried to tell him the government was listening
This Alert showed up on the phone today. Has anyone else had these show up? Never thought I'd see bribery being used to persuade anyone to get vaccinated.
I get all sorts of texts on my work iPhone offering me money, but they're all malicious. I don't use my work # for any personal accounts so I can safely ignore them all.
Here's a site to help retrain your sense of smell. Explains how to do the retraining process and make your own kits.
https://abscent.org/learn-us/smell-training/how-smell-train
@Cam_91 - I bet she was a model student in biology class. Definitely didn't sleep through class at all. I heard if you're not vaccinated, **** will stick to you. She should try it out.
@Wylaff - the point was lost about the m&ms but you mentioned people not being in the wrong for asking for more information. What sort of information would you be interested in?
Whether you call it anti-vax, non-vax, un-vax, etc, it's all semantics. If you're against vaccines or even this vaccine in particular, there's a reason for it. What's the reason?
As for "risk of potentially fatal heart swelling" - that's not exactly accurate:
"Myocarditis is an inflammation of the heart muscle, while pericarditis is the inflammation of the tissue surrounding the heart. The most common causes include infections; however, it can also be caused by medications or underlying conditions. It can improve on its own or with the use of anti-inflammatory medications. In mild cases, avoiding exercise is recommended. More severe cases require additional treatment.
ACIP recently met to weigh the risks and benefits of the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine for those aged 12-29. Based on a comprehensive discussion of the data, the mRNA COVID-19 vaccine continues to be recommended to those of young age as the benefits clearly outweigh the risks of rare occurrences of myocarditis.
Guidelines were provided by the CDC & FDA. The majority of reports of myocarditis occurred after dose 2, but in the case of myocarditis after the first dose, it is recommended to wait for further information before receiving the second dose. This recommendation is for those not in areas with high community transmission area or not at risk of severe COVID-19.
About 252 million doses of mRNA vaccines have been administered in the US, with 52 million of them amongst those aged 12-29. 484 cases (≤30 y/o) were evaluated by the CDC. Most symptoms appear within 7 days of vaccination, and the majority of cases were mild. Even amongst groups where the incidence was highest, the occurrence is still exceedingly rare (0.0063%).
As a result, vaccination is still highly recommended in all groups, particularly as the school year approaches and Delta continues to spread rapidly amongst the unvaccinated.
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Sources:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7027e2.htm...
https://www.mayoclinic.org/.../symptoms-causes/syc-20352539
https://www.cdc.gov/.../clin.../covid-19-vaccines-us.html...
https://www.aappublications.org/.../acip-covid...
https://www.health.harvard.edu/.../new-information-for..." - Unbiased Science
Additional points have already been made that you're already potentially putting other unvaccinated people at risk IF you have lasting, natural immunity (the virus was not eradicated by your innate immune system and allowed your adaptive/acquired immune system to build memory B/T cell response through Abs), as your symptoms will likely be lessened to some extent if you are exposed to SARS-CoV2 again.
The point of getting everyone vaccinated that can safely do so is to protect those people around us (such as the immunocompromised) that can't be vaccinated.
I'm not going to argue the effect of mask wearing in the appropriate situation (crowded or confined spaces with no to poor ventilation where 1 or more people may not be vaccinated), as science has already shown data on this.
I'm sorry if you've felt personally attacked at any point but as someone who has made science my career, I stand behind it. I'd be happy to have an open discussion (on the forum or privately) to try to address any concerns or questions you may have about the vaccine. If I can't answer a question, I'm happy to admit it but will look to the right sources to try to find the answer for you. A willingness to learn and question your own understanding of a subject is always appreciated.
First off, my new position requires vaccination, so I am getting it.
But... The only answer I have been able to find as to why previously infected individuals needs to be vaccinated is that antibodies fade. This is followed up by seeing that the vaccine does not trigger antibodies, but instead builds B and T cells. The only studies I have been able to find on B and T cells are all saying that previously infected individuals do develop T cells, and that the vaccine triggers comparable T cells. All of the verbiage on all of the communications is so emotional charged and full of "scare tactic" language, that I do not feel as though I am being presented with clear, unbiased information. "You need to be vaccinated because we don't think natural immunity will last forever." Fine. I support that. But there is no evidence that vaccine immunity lasts forever either. Last I saw (I can't find anything newer) breakthrough infection rate and reinfection rate are comparable. I personally just want to see unbiased, non-partisan, non-emotional data that shows the reasoning behind a bunch of random people screaming that it needs to be done for "reasons..."
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
I've heard of studies that say 100 year old survivors of the Spanish flu epidemic still have T cell immunity, it's a fairly closely related virus. Chances if getting any unbiased information from any source is slim.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
In case you are not fearful enough (lol) here's a paper from a strongly anti-vax immunologist. His bias may be skewing the conclusions and it is not yet peer reviewed:
https://www.scivisionpub.com/pdfs/us-covid19-vaccines-proven-to-cause-more-harm-than-good-based-on-pivotal-clinical-trial-data-analyzed-using-the-proper-scientific--1811.pdf
I read an article last week. Back in the nineties there was only six coronavirus known to infect humans. So scientists here in the US modified a common animal version to infect humans and see the results. Interestingly most of the test subjects didn’t even get the sniffles. The test was repeated the next year. Same results. They concluded that the six known to infect man had been around so long that there was a natural immunity built up in the population.
I wish I could find the article again but with so many researchers admitting to fudging data believe what you will.