Potential negative ramifications (prison time) does nothing to curb criminals in MOST circumstances who intend to commit crimes. 🤔
How then can you stop them prior to the crime? It's almost impossible. We have the 4th Amendment that protects against illegal searches or seizures without probable cause. Reasonable suspicion only gets you so far. Hunches get you sued.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this (only on my first cup of coffee).... but I do like the BF quotes! Let freedom ring!
You can't solve a character problem with a material solution.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
@webmost said:
You can't solve a character problem with a material solution.
Agreed. This is what I was alluding to with my remarks regarding a time many of us remember when High School boys took their rifles to school, and no one got shot. Also what I was talking about when I mentioned the loss of discipline in the school systems, as well as at home. It begs the questions that Frank was asking concerning what's the answer to the piling numbers of dead victims. Others have skirted around the issue as well.
Character.
So, the difficult and multi-faceted problem remains: How do we do that?
Two thoughts, or maybe more if I get carried away.
One, those HS boys 50 years ago KNEW exactly what happens when a bullet hits a body. It wasn't something they knew from screen-time, it was something they'd seen, done, cleaned up after.
Two, those HS boys from 50 years ago had been taught from infancy that the day would come when all of their life's actions would be judged for all eternity to see. Nowadays we teach them that mans interpretation of the physical universe is all there is, and nothing else.
Might have been a mistake to teach that? Especially since it's wrong.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Without shared myth, we are left with separate solipsisms.
Read Crime and Punishment, Dostoevsky.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
@webmost said:
You can't solve a character problem with a material solution.
Interesting. If that's the case then we shouldn't legislate guns any further. People are going to do what they're going to do.
Won't murders and rapists continue to murder and rape despite laws that are supposed to discourage them from doing so? We're not proposing to get rid of those laws, correct?
Of course not and I know that you're not suggesting we do. I am just showing you the trap of circular logic.
@Amos_Umwhat Interesting points on how morals and/or religion play a part. Of course, one could argue that more people have died over religious beliefs than over non-religious beliefs in the history of the world, But I think there's a lot of validity to the notion that we have had a societal character shift.
I also think that information sharing has a lot to do with what's going on. People are notorious for being notorious and everyone has a voice since everyone has a portable television studio in their pockets nowadays.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
We don't need to legislate guns any further. There are already thousands of gun laws on the books which do nothing, except maybe make some people feel better and let politicians appear to be "doing something".
What we need are actual consequences for people's illegal actions. Sentencing in this country is a joke. There are many crimes committed daily that should land a person in prison for the rest of their lives but they get months, probation or charges dropped. People have no fear of committing crimes when they know there will be little to no consequences.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
@ShawnOL said:
We don't need to legislate guns any further. There are already thousands of gun laws on the books which do nothing, except maybe make some people feel better and let politicians appear to be "doing something".
What we need are actual consequences for people's illegal actions. Sentencing in this country is a joke. There are many crimes committed daily that should land a person in prison for the rest of their lives but they get months, probation or charges dropped. People have no fear of committing crimes when they know there will be little to no consequences.
Eggzactly.
Just look at Portland right now. What is going on with the riots.
These people know that there is no consequences, because law enforcement will do nothing. They have continued to devastate a pathetic city, because it chooses to let those people destroy things.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
@Amos_Umwhat said:
Very interesting discussion. Good that the Governments history of lying, changing the story, moving the goal-posts etc. was brought into it. I do have sympathy for Pete's position on fully automatic weapons. Fun though they may be, there's not much practical purpose outside military applications.
That point, plus the daily news, brings me to another issue that seems to have no viable answers today. Why? Why are lunatics gunning down people?
Some thoughts. We've stopped teaching kids what it means to lose. They've never lost a game because they're all little winners. Everybody gets a trophy. No one faces the realities.
Then
They enter the real world where nobody thinks they're special, no one praises them for lying about doing their job, the way they used to lie about doing / losing their homework. No one is telling them that just showing up is good enough, suddenly they're expected to show up and perform like they know what they're doing.
How many video games teach the reward that is felt by pulling a trigger and watching your enemies go up in smoke? Or get blown to bits? Oooh, I feel better now. Reset. And the little spoiled brat who's never felt the belt as a result of his own actions starts to wonder "what would it be like...?" The concept of "Thrill-kill" starts to infiltrate his egocentric consciousness.
The full impact of ramifications isn't grasped in his special entitled little brain, because he's a winner no matter what. Everyone's always said so. Pain and suffering are distant concepts that happen to other people in other parts of the world, not him.
This is why I say paddling a child at school does not teach him to hit, it teaches him what it feels like to be hit, so he thinks twice before hitting. No child has to be taught to hit. Put 30 two year olds who've never seen hitting in a room with 12 toys, remove all adults, within 10 minutes one of them will hit another.
I know there are many that will disagree with this position. I know because they're raising the people who are out there committing these atrocities. Time to stop rambling and ranting. Thank you for your time and attention to these matters. Get off my lawn.
Very much agree.
I was taught, second place is the first loser.
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
As a murdercyclist whose feet are in the road at a stop, I can tell you that the sitch has very much improved. I used to see butt-drifts up against the curb of every left turn lane. Very little now.
Filters were the worst ever. Unfiltered butts don't last.
Not a real prob any more.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
@Amos_Umwhat... I do have sympathy for Pete's position on fully automatic weapons. Fun though they may be, there's not much practical purpose outside military applications.
Actually when I lived in Florida most of the 70s in to the 80s. An amazing number of 30+ foot boats disappeared. Most were pirated by drug runners, best protection was a Class 3 weapon. Shop in Clearwater sold the most of any place in the country.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
@Amos_Umwhat... I do have sympathy for Pete's position on fully automatic weapons. Fun though they may be, there's not much practical purpose outside military applications.
Actually when I lived in Florida most of the 70s in to the 80s. An amazing number of 30+ foot boats disappeared. Most were pirated by drug runners, best protection was a Class 3 weapon. Shop in Clearwater sold the most of any place in the country.
Brother they still steal boats left and right down here. Most end up stripped and the empty hull is found under a bridge. The others get put in a container and shipped to the islands. They are so brazen the bypass alarms, but locks, break down fences, hook up a F-350 with the plates covered and just drive away with your boat.
Logistics cannot win a war, but its absence or inadequacy can cause defeat. FM100-5
It's bad enough that the anti-mask, anti-vaccine crowd is dramatically slowing this country's ability to definitely squash new infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Now they are determined to sicken or kill even more of their fellow Americans. How? By getting their hands on blank CDC vaccination confirmation cards and filling them in with false information.
They are faking that they have received the shots so that they can lie about their vaccination status at school, at work, to travel, or in other circumstances.
@silvermouse said:
It's bad enough that the anti-mask, anti-vaccine crowd is dramatically slowing this country's ability to definitely squash new infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Now they are determined to sicken or kill even more of their fellow Americans. How? By getting their hands on blank CDC vaccination confirmation cards and filling them in with false information.
They are faking that they have received the shots so that they can lie about their vaccination status at school, at work, to travel, or in other circumstances.
It would seem they lack the courage of their convictions. If you're dead set against the vaccines, stand your ground and show you're right.
On a related note, my card is honest and accurate, both injections of the Moderna vaccine. If the Army couldn't kill me with all the injections they gave me, I wasn't worried about this one. Interestingly, after each vaccine I had a slight elevation in temperature, accompanied by chills, shakes, and sweats. Many people I know only experienced these symptoms after their 2nd vaccine. Looking back, I'm reasonably sure I had the virus in Dec 2019 after travelling to the Gulf Coast and Florida. I think this may account for reacting to both shots, instead of just the 2nd.
So,
Is it a good idea to vaccinate those who've already had the virus?
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@silvermouse said:
It's bad enough that the anti-mask, anti-vaccine crowd is dramatically slowing this country's ability to definitely squash new infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Now they are determined to sicken or kill even more of their fellow Americans. How? By getting their hands on blank CDC vaccination confirmation cards and filling them in with false information.
They are faking that they have received the shots so that they can lie about their vaccination status at school, at work, to travel, or in other circumstances.
Is proof of vaccination required?
My work thought about trying to require it, but the legal people changed their minds.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
That would be funny, for both the hard core leftists AND rightists! Hahahahahaha
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
It is what happens when a world goes insane and people believe that everyone should believe and do as they do.
Power hungry people create those types of problems.
I laugh when people say that the US should act as a peace keeper to keep Russia under control.
The US has become weak and no longer has the edge over Russia and China.
Just my opinion.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
The problem between Russia and Ukraine is Crimea. How does Russia ship out? It's as though we owned the whole Mississippi Valley, but France still owned New Orleans. How does your stuff get out? Russian is about as close to landlocked as it can get. Murmansk and Kaliningrad and such are damn icy too much of the year. Vladivostok is way the hell the other end of the Siberian railway. How can you be a viable nation if you can't trade? Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's. Italy has ports. Russia is a huge huge factory waiting to happen. No loading dock.
Not just trade, either. Russia owns one (1) total aircraft carrier. Built in a shipyard in the Black Sea. When the Soviet Union came apart they lost that port. Damn carrier broke down constantly. Finally had to be towed all the way to Saint Pete, where there was no shipyard big enough to repair it. Sat at moorings... until it burnt. How can you pretend to be a super-power if you can't maintain a single carrier?
It's a crazy situation. When Russia first tried to come onto the scene, the British Empire went to war with them. Where? The Crimea. Why? Cork 'em up. For centuries, Britain's policy was simply to fight any nation which might compete for European dominance. Fought Spain, then France, the Netherlands a couple times, Germany couple times... whoever stuck their head up & tried to compete economically. If Russia wants to export, say, food from their vast fertile plains, how do they get it out? Well, they gotta pop that Ukrainian cork, is how.
Rivers and seaports. They count.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
The local new was reporting a shortage of restaurant workers because no one wants to come back of the unemployment benefits. How can anyone say they didn’t see this coming when you can sit at home and make more than actually working. The state is about to reinstate the clause that you have to show where you applied for at least two jobs per week to get your check.
Comments
Potential negative ramifications (prison time) does nothing to curb criminals in MOST circumstances who intend to commit crimes. 🤔
How then can you stop them prior to the crime? It's almost impossible. We have the 4th Amendment that protects against illegal searches or seizures without probable cause. Reasonable suspicion only gets you so far. Hunches get you sued.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this (only on my first cup of coffee).... but I do like the BF quotes! Let freedom ring!
Good day gentlemen!
Things are about to get interesting...
You can't solve a character problem with a material solution.
Agreed. This is what I was alluding to with my remarks regarding a time many of us remember when High School boys took their rifles to school, and no one got shot. Also what I was talking about when I mentioned the loss of discipline in the school systems, as well as at home. It begs the questions that Frank was asking concerning what's the answer to the piling numbers of dead victims. Others have skirted around the issue as well.
Character.
So, the difficult and multi-faceted problem remains: How do we do that?
Two thoughts, or maybe more if I get carried away.
One, those HS boys 50 years ago KNEW exactly what happens when a bullet hits a body. It wasn't something they knew from screen-time, it was something they'd seen, done, cleaned up after.
Two, those HS boys from 50 years ago had been taught from infancy that the day would come when all of their life's actions would be judged for all eternity to see. Nowadays we teach them that mans interpretation of the physical universe is all there is, and nothing else.
Might have been a mistake to teach that? Especially since it's wrong.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Without shared myth, we are left with separate solipsisms.
Read Crime and Punishment, Dostoevsky.
Interesting. If that's the case then we shouldn't legislate guns any further. People are going to do what they're going to do.
Won't murders and rapists continue to murder and rape despite laws that are supposed to discourage them from doing so? We're not proposing to get rid of those laws, correct?
Of course not and I know that you're not suggesting we do. I am just showing you the trap of circular logic.
@Amos_Umwhat Interesting points on how morals and/or religion play a part. Of course, one could argue that more people have died over religious beliefs than over non-religious beliefs in the history of the world, But I think there's a lot of validity to the notion that we have had a societal character shift.
I also think that information sharing has a lot to do with what's going on. People are notorious for being notorious and everyone has a voice since everyone has a portable television studio in their pockets nowadays.
We don't need to legislate guns any further. There are already thousands of gun laws on the books which do nothing, except maybe make some people feel better and let politicians appear to be "doing something".
What we need are actual consequences for people's illegal actions. Sentencing in this country is a joke. There are many crimes committed daily that should land a person in prison for the rest of their lives but they get months, probation or charges dropped. People have no fear of committing crimes when they know there will be little to no consequences.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
Eggzactly.
Just look at Portland right now. What is going on with the riots.
These people know that there is no consequences, because law enforcement will do nothing. They have continued to devastate a pathetic city, because it chooses to let those people destroy things.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Very much agree.
I was taught, second place is the first loser.
My father told me “second is the last loser, get better.”
MOW badge received.
What vitola does that my father come in?
I’m sure it’s a 6x60
Sorry, my actual dad, in real life told me that.
MOW badge received.
a small example of making things better:
https://dentonrc.com/news/denton/transformers-anti-litter-passion-leads-to-butts/article_02d16540-2d2c-585d-ba63-faadf8ae8e97.html
As a murdercyclist whose feet are in the road at a stop, I can tell you that the sitch has very much improved. I used to see butt-drifts up against the curb of every left turn lane. Very little now.
Filters were the worst ever. Unfiltered butts don't last.
Not a real prob any more.
Actually when I lived in Florida most of the 70s in to the 80s. An amazing number of 30+ foot boats disappeared. Most were pirated by drug runners, best protection was a Class 3 weapon. Shop in Clearwater sold the most of any place in the country.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
Brother they still steal boats left and right down here. Most end up stripped and the empty hull is found under a bridge. The others get put in a container and shipped to the islands. They are so brazen the bypass alarms, but locks, break down fences, hook up a F-350 with the plates covered and just drive away with your boat.
Anyone else think @Stubble needs these if he doesn't already have them?
It's bad enough that the anti-mask, anti-vaccine crowd is dramatically slowing this country's ability to definitely squash new infections, hospitalizations, and deaths. Now they are determined to sicken or kill even more of their fellow Americans. How? By getting their hands on blank CDC vaccination confirmation cards and filling them in with false information.
They are faking that they have received the shots so that they can lie about their vaccination status at school, at work, to travel, or in other circumstances.
It would seem they lack the courage of their convictions. If you're dead set against the vaccines, stand your ground and show you're right.
On a related note, my card is honest and accurate, both injections of the Moderna vaccine. If the Army couldn't kill me with all the injections they gave me, I wasn't worried about this one. Interestingly, after each vaccine I had a slight elevation in temperature, accompanied by chills, shakes, and sweats. Many people I know only experienced these symptoms after their 2nd vaccine. Looking back, I'm reasonably sure I had the virus in Dec 2019 after travelling to the Gulf Coast and Florida. I think this may account for reacting to both shots, instead of just the 2nd.
So,
Is it a good idea to vaccinate those who've already had the virus?
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Is proof of vaccination required?
My work thought about trying to require it, but the legal people changed their minds.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
https://thefederalist.com/2021/04/20/10-huge-corporations-working-to-make-big-bucks-from-forcing-americans-into-vaccine-passports/
Will they work as VOTER ID?
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
That would be funny, for both the hard core leftists AND rightists! Hahahahahaha
wtf is wrong with humans?
https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-president-zelensky-ready-war-russia-vows-stand-last-man-1585425
That's what happens when you trust a Clinton, but they wish they still had there nucs.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
It is what happens when a world goes insane and people believe that everyone should believe and do as they do.
Power hungry people create those types of problems.
I laugh when people say that the US should act as a peace keeper to keep Russia under control.
The US has become weak and no longer has the edge over Russia and China.
Just my opinion.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
The problem between Russia and Ukraine is Crimea. How does Russia ship out? It's as though we owned the whole Mississippi Valley, but France still owned New Orleans. How does your stuff get out? Russian is about as close to landlocked as it can get. Murmansk and Kaliningrad and such are damn icy too much of the year. Vladivostok is way the hell the other end of the Siberian railway. How can you be a viable nation if you can't trade? Russia's economy is about the size of Italy's. Italy has ports. Russia is a huge huge factory waiting to happen. No loading dock.
Not just trade, either. Russia owns one (1) total aircraft carrier. Built in a shipyard in the Black Sea. When the Soviet Union came apart they lost that port. Damn carrier broke down constantly. Finally had to be towed all the way to Saint Pete, where there was no shipyard big enough to repair it. Sat at moorings... until it burnt. How can you pretend to be a super-power if you can't maintain a single carrier?
It's a crazy situation. When Russia first tried to come onto the scene, the British Empire went to war with them. Where? The Crimea. Why? Cork 'em up. For centuries, Britain's policy was simply to fight any nation which might compete for European dominance. Fought Spain, then France, the Netherlands a couple times, Germany couple times... whoever stuck their head up & tried to compete economically. If Russia wants to export, say, food from their vast fertile plains, how do they get it out? Well, they gotta pop that Ukrainian cork, is how.
Rivers and seaports. They count.
The local new was reporting a shortage of restaurant workers because no one wants to come back of the unemployment benefits. How can anyone say they didn’t see this coming when you can sit at home and make more than actually working. The state is about to reinstate the clause that you have to show where you applied for at least two jobs per week to get your check.
Just wait 'til @Stubble becomes a grandpa and they put him in charge of the reveal!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-huge-explosion-cracked-house-foundations-in-new-hampshire-an-extreme-gender-reveal-party-was-to-blame/ar-BB1fYgMy
Happy news...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18rexiQP09ptEfuVlysiQf_U1nzD8Nrze/view?usp=drivesdk
Although I was a bit late in finding it in my email...... 🙄