A lot of teachers are liberal azzholes and do suck, Frank. It's just the way it is. My daughter is a teacher and has talked about how liberal left the majority of teachers are in our parts. Maybe you have good, conservative teachers in your area but we don't have many here.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
You can hear whatever you want brother. Frankly I don't give a damn what your background is. I couldn't care less about the 730 days you spent "in the system." Ultimately, I'm not going to standby and let you spew your bullshīt unchecked.
The fact you make inaccurate assumptions about my background, then claim not to care about my background when I correct your inaccurate assumptions, does not say anything good about you, @VegasFrank. In fact, it shows that you are disingenuous and you have no desire to reach a place of mutual understanding or growth. That being what it is, I will not continue an argument with someone of that nature. Therefore, I leave you with a singular correction and two observations.
I never said I loathed the tenure system, I simply pointed out the fact it protects bad teachers from being fired.
"Hey man you're the one who said that public schools are indoctrination instrument of the liberal, not me."
This was a tongue-in-cheek comment that, though supported by some evidence, is not provable beyond a doubt. It was intended to be humorous or eye-rolling because I was told people around here had thick skin.
"And while you claim that most Americans think the teachers deserve more money, it is the American populace that has the power to give it to them, since teachers are publicly funded. Yet Americans don't open the checkbook because they'd rather not spend an extra quarter Penny on every hundred dollars in property value to go toward teacher pay. #thankless"
Your assertion that the general public's unwillingness to pay public school teachers more money only comes from a place of thanklessness, is not an assertion you can support.
P.S. I don't mind arguments and dissenting opinions, I actually rather enjoy them. Iron sharpens iron. However, I prefer the arguments to be done in good faith without insults being thrown about and so many assumptions being made. In that spirit, I apologize for my "baaa...baaa" comment, but that is the only thing I regret typing.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Public schools in this country are among the best in the world specifically because of the freedom they allow educators to teach with, and this is especially true in the finest institutions of this country.
This was all you needed to say. The rest was nothing specific. I'd like to hear more about what you refer to as "the freedom they allow educators to teach with". How is this freedom manifested?
I gave Frank an awesome on his rant because, personal aspersions aside, most of what he says about public schools is correct. Also both sides like to play the injured role.
Personally, I think teachers salaries should be at least quadrupled, and unreasonable helicopter parents should STFU and accept reality. Also, with that salary increase, the bar should be set quite a bit higher than it's been.
Recently in Tennessee there's been new legislation concerning the 14 things that must not be taught in public schools. I assure you, this legislation is not a part of any liberal agenda, and is decidedly a right wing mind control ploy. Most of what's being prohibited is left wing nonsense, also a mind control ploy.
So, how about if we try teaching everything, along with some genuine critical thinking strategies, and let them figure it out?
Just an idea.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
During WWII, the U.S. government urged citizens to donate their excess bacon fat to the army. A whole committee was even created for it: The American Fat Salvage Committee. The fat was used to make glycerin which in turn was used to make bombs.
Join us on Zoom vHerf (Meeting # 2619860114 Password vHerf2020 )
Personally, I think teachers salaries should be at least quadrupled, and unreasonable helicopter parents should STFU and accept reality. Also, with that salary increase, the bar should be set quite a bit higher than it's been.
In my experience, not enough parents are involved and the schools become over-involved and, in some ways, dictatorial. I worked with children with emotional and behavioral disorders (EBD). Many of my students were violent, however, the school would never notify the parent of a regular-ed student that an EBD student had physically lashed out against them or had verbally berated them. The parents of regular-ed students that I spoke with at various times had no idea their child was in the same class as, or even sat next to, a violent student. That is unacceptable.
The best thing for a student of any school, public, private, or home, is for their parents to take an active interest in their education and what is going on at their school. If the parent disagrees with how a school is being run then they should be able to select another school for their child to attend.
One thing is for sure, public schools have become a miniaturized form of government, and government cannot be left unchecked by the citizens.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Yakster said:
During WWII, the U.S. government urged citizens to donate their excess bacon fat to the army. A whole committee was even created for it: The American Fat Salvage Committee. The fat was used to make glycerin which in turn was used to make bombs.
I am a bit of a history buff and have read many books and watched many shows pertaining to WWII, one of my favorite sections of history. Yet, I have never come across this information.
You've got to hand it to them, they were darn thorough in fighting that war and supporting their troops.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
The United Church of Bacon. Based in Las Vegas, Nevada, [is] the official sanctioned church has around 13,000 members. They even perform wedding ceremonies, fundraisers for charity, and have their very own “9 Bacon Commandments.”
Join us on Zoom vHerf (Meeting # 2619860114 Password vHerf2020 )
@Hobbes86 said:
I will not continue an argument with someone of that nature. Therefore, I leave you with a singular correction and two observations.
Lol. "I'm not going to argue but I'm going to get in my last words."
I never said I loathed the tenure system, I simply pointed out the fact it protects bad teachers from being fired.
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
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@ShawnOL said:
A lot of teachers are liberal azzholes and do suck, Frank. It's just the way it is. My daughter is a teacher and has talked about how liberal left the majority of teachers are in our parts. Maybe you have good, conservative teachers in your area but we don't have many here.
I have good teachers who are liberal and good teachers who are conservative and goid teachers for whom I don't know their particular preference. Bad on all 3 also.
Political spectrum is not one of the indicators of being a good teacher from my experience, which is large and recent.
Post edited by VegasFrank on
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It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
Your claim that disagreeable politicians were "the genesis" for tenure is just not supported by my experience with googling the history of tenure. Sorry bro.
@VegasFrank said:
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Public schools in this country are among the best in the world specifically because of the freedom they allow educators to teach with, and this is especially true in the finest institutions of this country.
This was all you needed to say. The rest was nothing specific. I'd like to hear more about what you refer to as "the freedom they allow educators to teach with". How is this freedom manifested?
Through tenure, in large part. We cannot fire teachers because of the way they teach. While this unfortunately has manifested into a pure lack of standards in some grossly morphed versions of the institution, it also protects teachers' abilities to connect with students and teach relevant course material regardless of who their elected supervision is at any particular time. Without tenure, teachers become government agents wholly controlled by political forces.
Yes, there is a downside to it as @Hobbes86 so "eloquently" put it. There's also a downside to steak and cigars and beer, if you pervért them.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@VegasFrank said:
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
I thought you were done arguing. Then why the hell are you still here? Shoo, little fly...
Oh, and you started the tenure thing. Go back and read.
This is despite tenure protecting the bad ones
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It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
Your claim that disagreeable politicians were "the genesis" for tenure is just not supported by my experience with googling the history of tenure. Sorry bro.
That's what they taught me in leftist indoctrination training 🙄
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
Your claim that disagreeable politicians were "the genesis" for tenure is just not supported by my experience with googling the history of tenure. Sorry bro.
You using Chinese google 😆😂😆😂
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
And just to connect all the dots for you @Bob_Luken, principals hire teachers. Principals are appointed to their posts from school administration like the superintendent usually, and sometimes the school board. The superintendent is either elected or hired by the school board. The school board is always elected. Those are the politicians I referred to.
Same in public colleges. Public colleges are run by regents who are elected in many states. Regents higher School presidents and vice presidents, who hire and fire teachers.
My comment about your Chinese Google was tongue-in-cheek. @Hobbes86 taught me that.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
Your claim that disagreeable politicians were "the genesis" for tenure is just not supported by my experience with googling the history of tenure. Sorry bro.
That's what they taught me in leftist indoctrination training 🙄
@VegasFrank said:
I thought you were done arguing. Then why the hell are you still here? Shoo, little fly...
Oh, and you started the tenure thing. Go back and read.
This is despite tenure protecting the bad ones
I mentioned that tenure protects bad teachers. I never said tenure as a whole is bad or that tenure didn't protect good teachers. You invented all that junk yourself, which was all a straw man.
I also never said a word about the history of tenure, but you felt the need to erect a straw man there as well and tell me to "learn my damn history." Again, I never made a comment about it's history or purpose.
As to why I am still here:
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@VegasFrank said:
I thought you were done arguing. Then why the hell are you still here? Shoo, little fly...
Oh, and you started the tenure thing. Go back and read.
This is despite tenure protecting the bad ones
I never said tenure as a whole is bad or that tenure didn't protect good teachers.
Which is exactly why I did mention it. That's how argumentation works. You get the first lesson for free, the next ones will cost you 😆.
I never made a comment about it's history or purpose.
Of course you didn't because it didn't fit your point of view. That's why I chimed in. Your quote is right up there. Read it. I took your piece of information and argued against it. You gave a half-truth and a half story about a concept and I finish it for you. I don't understand what you're talking about.
Shoo fly ...
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@VegasFrank said:
And just to connect all the dots for you @Bob_Luken, principals hire teachers. Principals are appointed to their posts from school administration like the superintendent usually, and sometimes the school board. The superintendent is either elected or hired by the school board. The school board is always elected. Those are the politicians I referred to.
Same in public colleges. Public colleges are run by regents who are elected in many states. Regents higher School presidents and vice presidents, who hire and fire teachers.
My comment about your Chinese Google was tongue-in-cheek. @Hobbes86 taught me that.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Comments
A lot of teachers are liberal azzholes and do suck, Frank. It's just the way it is. My daughter is a teacher and has talked about how liberal left the majority of teachers are in our parts. Maybe you have good, conservative teachers in your area but we don't have many here.
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
The fact you make inaccurate assumptions about my background, then claim not to care about my background when I correct your inaccurate assumptions, does not say anything good about you, @VegasFrank. In fact, it shows that you are disingenuous and you have no desire to reach a place of mutual understanding or growth. That being what it is, I will not continue an argument with someone of that nature. Therefore, I leave you with a singular correction and two observations.
I never said I loathed the tenure system, I simply pointed out the fact it protects bad teachers from being fired.
"Hey man you're the one who said that public schools are indoctrination instrument of the liberal, not me."
This was a tongue-in-cheek comment that, though supported by some evidence, is not provable beyond a doubt. It was intended to be humorous or eye-rolling because I was told people around here had thick skin.
"And while you claim that most Americans think the teachers deserve more money, it is the American populace that has the power to give it to them, since teachers are publicly funded. Yet Americans don't open the checkbook because they'd rather not spend an extra quarter Penny on every hundred dollars in property value to go toward teacher pay. #thankless"
Your assertion that the general public's unwillingness to pay public school teachers more money only comes from a place of thanklessness, is not an assertion you can support.
P.S. I don't mind arguments and dissenting opinions, I actually rather enjoy them. Iron sharpens iron. However, I prefer the arguments to be done in good faith without insults being thrown about and so many assumptions being made. In that spirit, I apologize for my "baaa...baaa" comment, but that is the only thing I regret typing.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
The fats in bacon are about 50% monounsaturated and a large part of those is oleic acid.
This was all you needed to say. The rest was nothing specific. I'd like to hear more about what you refer to as "the freedom they allow educators to teach with". How is this freedom manifested?
I gave Frank an awesome on his rant because, personal aspersions aside, most of what he says about public schools is correct. Also both sides like to play the injured role.
Personally, I think teachers salaries should be at least quadrupled, and unreasonable helicopter parents should STFU and accept reality. Also, with that salary increase, the bar should be set quite a bit higher than it's been.
Recently in Tennessee there's been new legislation concerning the 14 things that must not be taught in public schools. I assure you, this legislation is not a part of any liberal agenda, and is decidedly a right wing mind control ploy. Most of what's being prohibited is left wing nonsense, also a mind control ploy.
So, how about if we try teaching everything, along with some genuine critical thinking strategies, and let them figure it out?
Just an idea.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
During WWII, the U.S. government urged citizens to donate their excess bacon fat to the army. A whole committee was even created for it: The American Fat Salvage Committee. The fat was used to make glycerin which in turn was used to make bombs.
In my experience, not enough parents are involved and the schools become over-involved and, in some ways, dictatorial. I worked with children with emotional and behavioral disorders (EBD). Many of my students were violent, however, the school would never notify the parent of a regular-ed student that an EBD student had physically lashed out against them or had verbally berated them. The parents of regular-ed students that I spoke with at various times had no idea their child was in the same class as, or even sat next to, a violent student. That is unacceptable.
The best thing for a student of any school, public, private, or home, is for their parents to take an active interest in their education and what is going on at their school. If the parent disagrees with how a school is being run then they should be able to select another school for their child to attend.
One thing is for sure, public schools have become a miniaturized form of government, and government cannot be left unchecked by the citizens.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
I am a bit of a history buff and have read many books and watched many shows pertaining to WWII, one of my favorite sections of history. Yet, I have never come across this information.
You've got to hand it to them, they were darn thorough in fighting that war and supporting their troops.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
The United Church of Bacon. Based in Las Vegas, Nevada, [is] the official sanctioned church has around 13,000 members. They even perform wedding ceremonies, fundraisers for charity, and have their very own “9 Bacon Commandments.”
Lol. "I'm not going to argue but I'm going to get in my last words."
It also protects good teachers from being fired by politicians who disagree with their views. That was the Genesis of tenure in the first place. Learn your damn history bro.
I have good teachers who are liberal and good teachers who are conservative and goid teachers for whom I don't know their particular preference. Bad on all 3 also.
Political spectrum is not one of the indicators of being a good teacher from my experience, which is large and recent.
Your claim that disagreeable politicians were "the genesis" for tenure is just not supported by my experience with googling the history of tenure. Sorry bro.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Through tenure, in large part. We cannot fire teachers because of the way they teach. While this unfortunately has manifested into a pure lack of standards in some grossly morphed versions of the institution, it also protects teachers' abilities to connect with students and teach relevant course material regardless of who their elected supervision is at any particular time. Without tenure, teachers become government agents wholly controlled by political forces.
Yes, there is a downside to it as @Hobbes86 so "eloquently" put it. There's also a downside to steak and cigars and beer, if you pervért them.
I thought you were done arguing. Then why the hell are you still here? Shoo, little fly...
Oh, and you started the tenure thing. Go back and read.
That's what they taught me in leftist indoctrination training 🙄
You using Chinese google 😆😂😆😂
And just to connect all the dots for you @Bob_Luken, principals hire teachers. Principals are appointed to their posts from school administration like the superintendent usually, and sometimes the school board. The superintendent is either elected or hired by the school board. The school board is always elected. Those are the politicians I referred to.
Same in public colleges. Public colleges are run by regents who are elected in many states. Regents higher School presidents and vice presidents, who hire and fire teachers.
My comment about your Chinese Google was tongue-in-cheek. @Hobbes86 taught me that.
I mentioned that tenure protects bad teachers. I never said tenure as a whole is bad or that tenure didn't protect good teachers. You invented all that junk yourself, which was all a straw man.
I also never said a word about the history of tenure, but you felt the need to erect a straw man there as well and tell me to "learn my damn history." Again, I never made a comment about it's history or purpose.
As to why I am still here:
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Bacon is as addictive as heroin and cocaine.
Which is exactly why I did mention it. That's how argumentation works. You get the first lesson for free, the next ones will cost you 😆.
Of course you didn't because it didn't fit your point of view. That's why I chimed in. Your quote is right up there. Read it. I took your piece of information and argued against it. You gave a half-truth and a half story about a concept and I finish it for you. I don't understand what you're talking about.
Shoo fly ...
@VegasFrank
You are Don Quixote, tilting at windmills.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Sean Hannity is,....
>
>
>
I was tongue-in-cheek first.
Relax Frank,....
>
You guys are interrupting my bacon reading
Not enough ^ apparently.
I am wondering if that last one presented by @Yakster is true or not. Bacon is good, yes, but as addictive as heroin and cocaine...I am doubtful.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
He he he he.