@webmost said:
The quandary is: If you go out so that they can test you, and you test positive, then you should not have gone out because you are positive.
The whole testing aspect is vastly overblown.
This is part of what doesn't sound logical, plus if they go out and test negative they could be positive an hour, a day later etc. and think their still negative when in fact would be spreading the virus and potentially infecting many more people.
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
@webmost said:
The quandary is: If you go out so that they can test you, and you test positive, then you should not have gone out because you are positive.
The whole testing aspect is vastly overblown.
This is part of what doesn't sound logical, plus if they go out and test negative they could be positive an hour, a day later etc. and think their still negative when in fact would be spreading the virus and potentially infecting many more people.
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
First time I read that.
Got a link to a study or something? I'd like to know if they test neg, how do they know they are pos? Also, which test are we talking about? Are they neg on one & pos on another? If so, which is right?
Puzzling
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
Death by smoking? What did they fall asleep in bed With a cigar or something? Wouldn't have been be classified as death by burning? Death by hunger? I'm hungry all the f****** time bro...
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
I believe that's when you get stuck in your smoker while cooking a brisket
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@webmost said:
The quandary is: If you go out so that they can test you, and you test positive, then you should not have gone out because you are positive.
The whole testing aspect is vastly overblown.
This is part of what doesn't sound logical, plus if they go out and test negative they could be positive an hour, a day later etc. and think their still negative when in fact would be spreading the virus and potentially infecting many more people.
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
First time I read that.
Got a link to a study or something? I'd like to know if they test neg, how do they know they are pos? Also, which test are we talking about? Are they neg on one & pos on another? If so, which is right?
Puzzling
False negative and false positive results are fairly common in nearly every medical test. Cardiac stress testing only has a 75-80% accuracy rate. Many people have been told there's nothing wrong with their heart only to have a heart attack later and many have been told they have blockages when the cardiac catheterization proves they do not.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Well my mandatory court appearance (So they can drop the charges) for the ticket I got for a expired tag was set for March 26th....Was changed till May 21st.....Now is changed July 9th, all because the courts are closed.
I heard something interesting on PBS newshour last night.
If the federal government has your direct deposit banking information you could possibly get the money in two weeks, if they have to mail a check it could take up to twenty weeks before you see it.
Don’t know that these are facts or speculation, but it will be interesting to see if/when this happens.
Friends don't let good friends smoke cheap cigars.
I have reservations about certain N95 masks that I have heard no one address in the public debate lately. Specifically the ones that have a rubber gasket valve that bypasses the filter when you exhale. To me those would be no good for protecting others from the wearer, even though they should protect the wearer from others. (Some N95 masks do not have the valve, some do.) I became familiar with the valved N95 masks about a decade ago. I immediately liked them better than any masks without the valve because they would not fog up my safety glasses or my prescription glasses nearly as bad as masks without the valve. Because of that valve, I question it would even be a good idea for front-line healthcare workers to be wearing valved N95 masks if the patients are not protected from the healthcare workers. These healthcare workers are at high risk for contracting the virus, and would be asymptomatic at first, but would be shedding the virus themselves onto the patients by way of the one-way valve. I'm pretty sure I have seen recent footage of healthcare professionals wearing the valved N95 masks on the front lines of the fight against the virus. If my reasoning is correct, it seems like an important oversight or error to allow use of the valved N95 masks by healthcare workers.
I found this on the 3M website. They are specific and clear about how their valves can pass viruses from the wearer to others, but nobody is talking about this. I'm pretty sure I have seen healthcare workers using valved masks. I will pay more attention to this little detail the next time I see footage of healthcare workers on the front lines.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1792732O/respiratory-protection-faq-healthcare.pdf
3M Personal Safety Division
surgical respirators also do not have exhalation
valves or have specially designed shrouded exhalation valves. surgical respirators are designed without exhalation valves because there is concern that any bacteria or viruses expelled from the wearer may travel through the exhalation valve and
enter the surrounding environment, such as a sterile field during surgery, potentially exposing other people.
@Bob_Luken
The company I work for doesn't allow us to wear the valves N95 masks for that specific reason.
It's possible to carry and transmit the virus without exhibiting any signs of infection. If I was carrying it and my pt wasn't, I could very easily pass it on.
I'm not even authorized to administer nebulizer medications unless I can justify that my patients would die before arriving at the ER without those medications.
Food for thought.
The following is an Asst. Prof in infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University. Learn more as we're into this further. See below
The virus is not a living organism, but a protein molecule (DNA) covered by a protective layer of lipid (fat), which, when absorbed by the cells of the ocular, nasal or buccal mucosa, changes their genetic code. (mutation) and convert them into aggressors and multiplier cells.
Since the virus is not a living organism but a protein molecule, it is not killed but decays on its own. The disintegration time depends on the temperature, humidity and type of material where it lies.
The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam).
By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.
HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.
Alcohol or any mixture with alcohol over 65% DISSOLVES ANY FAT, especially the external lipid layer of the virus.
Any mix with 1 part bleach and 5 parts water directly dissolves the protein, breaks it down from the inside.
Oxygenated water helps long after soap, alcohol and chlorine, because peroxide dissolves the virus protein, but you have to use it pure and it hurts your skin.
NO BACTERICIDE OR ANTIBIOTIC SERVES. The virus is not a living organism like bacteria; antibodies cannot kill what is not alive.
NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only
-between 3 hours (fabric and porous), -4 hours (copper and wood)
-24 hours (cardboard), - 42 hours (metal) and -72 hours (plastic).
But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.
The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars.
They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.
UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin.
The virus CANNOT go through healthy skin.
Vinegar is NOT useful because it does not break down the protective layer of fat.
NO SPIRITS, NOR VODKA, serve. The strongest vodka is 40% alcohol, and you need 65%.
LISTERINE IF IT SERVES! It is 65% alcohol.
The more confined the space, the more concentration of the virus there can be. The more open or naturally ventilated, the less.
You have to wash your hands before and after touching mucosa, food, locks, knobs, switches, remote control, cell phone, watches, computers, desks, TV, etc. And when using the bathroom.
You have to Moisturize dry hands from so much washing them, because the molecules can hide in the micro cracks. The thicker the moisturizer, the better.
Also keep your NAILS SHORT so that the virus does not hide there. JOHNS HOPKINS HOSPITAL
Well rats! I looked at that bottle of 138 proof Absinthe, but thought "Nah, Scotch should do it".. Live and learn I guess.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
As of today, I am off work until April 28th.
It seems that I am high risk, because of my asthma, so Doc ordered me off for at least 3 weeks and then re-evaluate on the 28th.
Now my work is battling whether they want to follow their rules and make it paid admin leave or make me use vacation time. Bunch of blood suckers.
I spent an hour talking to a half dozen people, 3 different agencies and did what they told me to do and now they aren't sure they are going to approve the paid admin leave, because I am an essential employee.
If I weren't, oh, it would be no problem.
3 more year. I just gotta make it 3 more years.
Just realized, I am stuck with the boss lady for 3 solid weeks.
If I don't survive, the virus didn't kill me.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
@webmost said:
The quandary is: If you go out so that they can test you, and you test positive, then you should not have gone out because you are positive.
The whole testing aspect is vastly overblown.
This is part of what doesn't sound logical, plus if they go out and test negative they could be positive an hour, a day later etc. and think their still negative when in fact would be spreading the virus and potentially infecting many more people.
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
First time I read that.
Got a link to a study or something? I'd like to know if they test neg, how do they know they are pos? Also, which test are we talking about? Are they neg on one & pos on another? If so, which is right?
@webmost said:
The quandary is: If you go out so that they can test you, and you test positive, then you should not have gone out because you are positive.
The whole testing aspect is vastly overblown.
This is part of what doesn't sound logical, plus if they go out and test negative they could be positive an hour, a day later etc. and think their still negative when in fact would be spreading the virus and potentially infecting many more people.
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
First time I read that.
Got a link to a study or something? I'd like to know if they test neg, how do they know they are pos? Also, which test are we talking about? Are they neg on one & pos on another? If so, which is right?
Yes, I understand that this is the nature of tests... But 30% seems darn high. So how do they know? Which test? If Grandma tests clean today and dirty tomorrow, did she catch it overnight? If 30% are false neggies, then what percent are false pozzies? Even the Boston Globe article you reference starts out "may be as high as...". What could it be as low as? If I were to write an article stating the Boston Globe may be as much as 30% bullcrap, and I could find only 3% BS, my statement would still be accurate.
I declined to pay to subscribe to the Boston Globe when I followed your link, so I can't tell you that I searched their article for the source. I didn't. Does it have one? I am sincerely curious.
Not that I am a test proponent. The question came up again at yesterday's coronavirus new conference: "When can you promise that every American can be tested?" One of the stupidest gotcha questions out of the whole array of dumb gotcha questions they ask over and over and over. Why? If you could test all 350 million of us this very day, what would that accomplish? The results would assuredly be different tomorrow. But test results appear to be fundamental to all the stats and projections, starting with what did grandma die from. Are any of these numbers any good?
Fear sells news. That's what they sell, is alarm. When people aren't pissed or scared, the Boston Globe lines the budgie cage. The number of people dispassionately searching for a true understanding of facts may be as little as 30%. The number responding to headlines create multi-billion dollar empires, not to mention tyrranies.
This morning, I followed a link that arrived via Google News, titled this way: "Jared Kushner Is Going to Get Us All Killed!" I kid you not. All killed. In the first place, we're not ALL going to die... well, not until eventually. When I followed this link, I arrived at the New York Times, where the headline reads: "Putting Jared Kushner In Charge Is Utter Madness". Well, he's not in charge. The subtitle reads: "Trump’s son-in-law has no business running the coronavirus response". Well, he doesn't run it. The first paragraph reads: "Reporting on the White House’s herky-jerky coronavirus response, Vanity Fair’s Gabriel Sherman has a quotation from Jared Kushner that should make all Americans, and particularly all New Yorkers, dizzy with terror." Well, there's the kernel that sells the news: make them dizzy with terror. The dizzy with terror bit is that Jared said he doesn't think Cuomo needs all the ventilators he has begged for. I watched him say that. I also watched Cuomo admit that he's stashing ventilators which he doesn't immediately need against possible future need. So let's freak out, throw in "herky-jerky" for fun, and contemn the pillow guy while we're at it.
When the only tool that you own is a hammer, then everything starts looking like a nail.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
Comments
I think that people should also know these tests are only 70 % sensitive... that if you test 100 people who have the virus, 30 people will have a negative test
First time I read that.
Got a link to a study or something? I'd like to know if they test neg, how do they know they are pos? Also, which test are we talking about? Are they neg on one & pos on another? If so, which is right?
Puzzling
now here's a good cause:
Death by smoking? What did they fall asleep in bed With a cigar or something? Wouldn't have been be classified as death by burning? Death by hunger? I'm hungry all the f****** time bro...
I believe that's when you get stuck in your smoker while cooking a brisket
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
And briskets are hard to light, too... 😜
False negative and false positive results are fairly common in nearly every medical test. Cardiac stress testing only has a 75-80% accuracy rate. Many people have been told there's nothing wrong with their heart only to have a heart attack later and many have been told they have blockages when the cardiac catheterization proves they do not.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/how-accurate-is-the-coronavirus-test?amp=true
Looking for a distraction? Build a cigar tube stomp rocket.
Probably less risk to your neighbors than taking up backyard golfing, eh @VegasFrank?
Ooooh! I have the parts for that!
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
You'll take your eye out with that thing...…..
Well my mandatory court appearance (So they can drop the charges) for the ticket I got for a expired tag was set for March 26th....Was changed till May 21st.....Now is changed July 9th, all because the courts are closed.
I heard something interesting on PBS newshour last night.
If the federal government has your direct deposit banking information you could possibly get the money in two weeks, if they have to mail a check it could take up to twenty weeks before you see it.
Don’t know that these are facts or speculation, but it will be interesting to see if/when this happens.
I have reservations about certain N95 masks that I have heard no one address in the public debate lately. Specifically the ones that have a rubber gasket valve that bypasses the filter when you exhale. To me those would be no good for protecting others from the wearer, even though they should protect the wearer from others. (Some N95 masks do not have the valve, some do.) I became familiar with the valved N95 masks about a decade ago. I immediately liked them better than any masks without the valve because they would not fog up my safety glasses or my prescription glasses nearly as bad as masks without the valve. Because of that valve, I question it would even be a good idea for front-line healthcare workers to be wearing valved N95 masks if the patients are not protected from the healthcare workers. These healthcare workers are at high risk for contracting the virus, and would be asymptomatic at first, but would be shedding the virus themselves onto the patients by way of the one-way valve. I'm pretty sure I have seen recent footage of healthcare professionals wearing the valved N95 masks on the front lines of the fight against the virus. If my reasoning is correct, it seems like an important oversight or error to allow use of the valved N95 masks by healthcare workers.
That never occurred to me, good thinking!
Unless masks in general don't do anything and it 's all just eyewash. (Lemme grab another layer of tin foil for my hat
)
I found this on the 3M website. They are specific and clear about how their valves can pass viruses from the wearer to others, but nobody is talking about this. I'm pretty sure I have seen healthcare workers using valved masks. I will pay more attention to this little detail the next time I see footage of healthcare workers on the front lines.
https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1792732O/respiratory-protection-faq-healthcare.pdf
3M Personal Safety Division
surgical respirators also do not have exhalation
valves or have specially designed shrouded exhalation valves. surgical respirators are designed without exhalation valves because there is concern that any bacteria or viruses expelled from the wearer may travel through the exhalation valve and
enter the surrounding environment, such as a sterile field during surgery, potentially exposing other people.
@Bob_Luken
The company I work for doesn't allow us to wear the valves N95 masks for that specific reason.
It's possible to carry and transmit the virus without exhibiting any signs of infection. If I was carrying it and my pt wasn't, I could very easily pass it on.
I'm not even authorized to administer nebulizer medications unless I can justify that my patients would die before arriving at the ER without those medications.
Food for thought.
The following is an Asst. Prof in infectious diseases at Johns Hopkins University. Learn more as we're into this further. See below
The virus is very fragile; the only thing that protects it is a thin outer layer of fat. That is why any soap or detergent is the best remedy because the foam CUTS the FAT (that is why you have to rub so much: for 20 seconds or more, to make a lot of foam).
By dissolving the fat layer, the protein molecule disperses and breaks down on its own.
HEAT melts fat; this is why it is so good to use water above 77 degrees Fahrenheit for washing hands, clothes and everything. In addition, hot water makes more foam and that makes it even more useful.
NEVER shake used or unused clothing, sheets or cloth. While it is glued to a porous surface, it is very inert and disintegrates only
-between 3 hours (fabric and porous), -4 hours (copper and wood)
-24 hours (cardboard), - 42 hours (metal) and -72 hours (plastic).
But if you shake it or use a feather duster, the virus molecules float in the air for up to 3 hours, and can lodge in your nose.
The virus molecules remain very stable in external cold, or artificial as air conditioners in houses and cars.
They also need moisture to stay stable, and especially darkness. Therefore, dehumidified, dry, warm and bright environments will degrade it faster.
UV LIGHT on any object that may contain it breaks down the virus protein. For example, to disinfect and reuse a mask is perfect. Be careful, it also breaks down collagen (which is protein) in the skin.
Well rats! I looked at that bottle of 138 proof Absinthe, but thought "Nah, Scotch should do it".. Live and learn I guess.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
138 proof should be 69% .
Trapped in the People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts.
As of today, I am off work until April 28th.
It seems that I am high risk, because of my asthma, so Doc ordered me off for at least 3 weeks and then re-evaluate on the 28th.
Now my work is battling whether they want to follow their rules and make it paid admin leave or make me use vacation time. Bunch of blood suckers.
I spent an hour talking to a half dozen people, 3 different agencies and did what they told me to do and now they aren't sure they are going to approve the paid admin leave, because I am an essential employee.
If I weren't, oh, it would be no problem.
3 more year. I just gotta make it 3 more years.
Just realized, I am stuck with the boss lady for 3 solid weeks.
If I don't survive, the virus didn't kill me.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
Here is one article ... but as other people have posted .. this is the nature of all tests.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/2020/04/02/nation/how-accurate-are-coronavirus-tests-doctors-raise-concern-about-false-negative-results/?outputType=amp
@Wylaff Since you're stuck inside for the foreseeable future, you'll have some books arriving today.
And for very obvious reasons, please don't send anything back unless I also get the virus, then I guess I'm fair game.
Yes, I understand that this is the nature of tests... But 30% seems darn high. So how do they know? Which test? If Grandma tests clean today and dirty tomorrow, did she catch it overnight? If 30% are false neggies, then what percent are false pozzies? Even the Boston Globe article you reference starts out "may be as high as...". What could it be as low as? If I were to write an article stating the Boston Globe may be as much as 30% bullcrap, and I could find only 3% BS, my statement would still be accurate.
I declined to pay to subscribe to the Boston Globe when I followed your link, so I can't tell you that I searched their article for the source. I didn't. Does it have one? I am sincerely curious.
Not that I am a test proponent. The question came up again at yesterday's coronavirus new conference: "When can you promise that every American can be tested?" One of the stupidest gotcha questions out of the whole array of dumb gotcha questions they ask over and over and over. Why? If you could test all 350 million of us this very day, what would that accomplish? The results would assuredly be different tomorrow. But test results appear to be fundamental to all the stats and projections, starting with what did grandma die from. Are any of these numbers any good?
Fear sells news. That's what they sell, is alarm. When people aren't pissed or scared, the Boston Globe lines the budgie cage. The number of people dispassionately searching for a true understanding of facts may be as little as 30%. The number responding to headlines create multi-billion dollar empires, not to mention tyrranies.
This morning, I followed a link that arrived via Google News, titled this way: "Jared Kushner Is Going to Get Us All Killed!" I kid you not. All killed. In the first place, we're not ALL going to die... well, not until eventually. When I followed this link, I arrived at the New York Times, where the headline reads: "Putting Jared Kushner In Charge Is Utter Madness". Well, he's not in charge. The subtitle reads: "Trump’s son-in-law has no business running the coronavirus response". Well, he doesn't run it. The first paragraph reads: "Reporting on the White House’s herky-jerky coronavirus response, Vanity Fair’s Gabriel Sherman has a quotation from Jared Kushner that should make all Americans, and particularly all New Yorkers, dizzy with terror." Well, there's the kernel that sells the news: make them dizzy with terror. The dizzy with terror bit is that Jared said he doesn't think Cuomo needs all the ventilators he has begged for. I watched him say that. I also watched Cuomo admit that he's stashing ventilators which he doesn't immediately need against possible future need. So let's freak out, throw in "herky-jerky" for fun, and contemn the pillow guy while we're at it.
When the only tool that you own is a hammer, then everything starts looking like a nail.
reminds me of two things, this article about ignoring facts:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/04/200403131259.htm
and the acronym popular among the young smartphone set: TLTR