The last thing I will say is again it should be a choice, but that choice should be based on facts, science and the advice of a medical dr. and not the conspiracy theory's that cloud many minds which I believe is about 10% of the population. I am probably low balling it though.
So to those I say stay at home and get out your Acme Covid survival kit. Take your horse pills with your hydrox, chase it down with some fish tank solution and a tide pod while your inhaling hydrogen peroxide, then bend over and stick the lite up ur asss and all should be good instead of cloggin up the ER.
I mean why go to the Hospital to be treated when you don't believe in science, you don't trust Dr's and you don't believe covid is real. At the end of the day it will be a Dr who is treating you, he will be using science to treat your illness or possibly save your life and if you do pass it will likely be from the one thing you don't believe is real.
Of course I still have the frying pan sticking to my head occasionally. Damn vax has tuned me into magnetized Iron Man.
You all continue to fight the good fight Im going back to just bums and cigars.
Free Cuba "I ain't got no Opus's" LLA - Lancero Lovers of America 2016 Gang War (South) May I assss u a ?
@CalvinAndHobo said:
Can I just ask, does anyone here making their arguments feel like they’ve convinced anyone else of anything? Let’s all smoke a cigar.
@miller65rod said:
The last thing I will say is again it should be a choice, but that choice should be based on facts, science and the advice of a medical dr. and not the conspiracy theory's that cloud many minds which I believe is about 10% of the population. I am probably low balling it though.
So to those I say stay at home and get out your Acme Covid survival kit. Take your horse pills with your hydrox, chase it down with some fish tank solution and a tide pod while your inhaling hydrogen peroxide, then bend over and stick the lite up ur asss and all should be good instead of cloggin up the ER.
I mean why go to the Hospital to be treated when you don't believe in science, you don't trust Dr's and you don't believe covid is real. At the end of the day it will be a Dr who is treating you, he will be using science to treat your illness or possibly save your life and if you do pass it will likely be from the one thing you don't believe is real.
Of course I still have the frying pan sticking to my head occasionally. Damn vax has tuned me into magnetized Iron Man.
You all continue to fight the good fight Im going back to just bums and cigars.
Feel free to disagree, but my doctor recommended that I do not get vaccinated due to the reasons I listed. Different demographic regions seem to be giving different advice. The doctors in the media and other controlled/regulated sources are saying it absolutely needs to be had by everyone, but real doctors talking to real people are not always in agreement. Therefor if I chose to not be vaccinated, it would be at the recommendation of the medical community.
"Cooking isn't about struggling; It's about pleasure. It's like sǝx, with a wider variety of sauces."
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
@VegasFrank said:
I don't have a problem with any of that bro. My total complete and everlasting problem is when that freedom, that choice, affects me negatively when it didn't have to.
I took my diabetic wife with a history of lung problems to the ER for possible blood clot in her leg that they were worried was going to blow through her lungs. The ER was completely filled with people who made a personal choice. She had to sit there in a hospital full of covid patients And it took 7 and 1/2 hours before she received treatment.
If this is actually been a pulmonary embolism, she could have died sitting in the hallway waiting for a doctor. Why? Because 240 people who decided to make a personal freedom choice clogged up in the 100 person ER on Tuesday afternoon when they figured out they couldn't breathe.
Hypocrisy.
I have no problem with anyone's personal freedom choice. Just stay home when you have trouble breathing. Get some Vicks VapoRub. If people wouldn't turn their personal freedom choice into my elevated risk factor, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Since they do, I call them selfish hypocrites.
Of course, you got it, you went to your personal doctor, you got treatment, and you got better. I'm thankful for that Nick. But those 240 people in that ER on Tuesday afternoon can eat a giant bag of hairy dïcks.
Why do you keep saying they are filled with anti-vaxxers. Orlando Regional has had a large number of both vaccinated and unvaccinated.
Because it is what it is. Orlando may be the Nexus of a universe from a different dimension, but the CDC says that 99% of COVID cases that are resulting in a trip to the emergency room are from those people who are unvaccinated.
I know these stats don't mean anything to you, but at some point you have to actually look at the truth.
And I'll tell you this brother. I've had several people from older generations my family die of diabetes, lung cancer, obesity, heart disease, and the rest. None of them ever went to the emergency room. They got their diagnosis through their doctors, did their treatments, did the hospice thing, and died.
Hospital emergency rooms have never been flooded with an overabundance of McDonald's eaters that have prevented emergency cases from getting treatment in emergency rooms.. Emergency rooms are for emergencies.
It's another fallacy...more confirmation bias...
Emergency rooms in Chicago are always full of people, before and will be after. Everyone without insurance go to emergency rooms for everything under the sun. There a lot of uninsured in Chicago.
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give". Winston Churchill. MOW badge received.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Waning protection to vaccinated individuals in the face of the Delta variant shows decreased efficacy for infection but protection against hospitalization and severe disease is still strong:
@Wylaff said:
I also love how people are disagreeing that the majority of people I personally know who have been hospitalized are vaccinated.
I'm not disagreeing (nor have I seen anyone else disagree on this point), it's just anecdotal evidence, at best. My story to counter your statement:
A good friend of mine (he and his wife are both fully vaccinated - only he went to the show, not his wife) went to a small, indoor venue to see some live bands. No restrictions or rules were present at the venue, no mask mandates, no proof of vaccination needed. It was a hardcore/metal show, so yes, there was a "pit" and he was definitely in it. Now, being surrounded by sweaty, yelling, spitting people during a pandemic and not knowing if any of them were vaccinated was probably not his brightest moment but he was well aware of the risks, has done his part at mitigating those risks to himself and others around him but took a chance and went to the show.
A week later, my girlfriend and I were out with them, having some beers when he mentioned that he couldn't smell or taste anything. Since we had already been around them for a few hours, we knew there was a VERY slight risk to us. When a few days passed and he still couldn't smell or taste anything, he got tested (he felt completely fine otherwise). He tested positive on a rapid test but did a PCR test to be sure. We told any other people we had been in contact with, just as a courtesy but knowing (those people were also vaccinated) third-hand exposure between vaccinated people, given the window of time that we saw them, the chances of infection were probably somewhere around 1 in a million. Subsequently, his wife tested negative.
My girlfriend and I both got tested and quarantined until we got our results back. This meant I missed a family function but it wasn't worth the risk to me. After everything I did early on in the pandemic to mitigate the spread, it wasn't worth even this tiny risk now. We both got our results back and both tested negative.
Now, I could speculate that: because my friend went to a show where there were likely unvaccinated people, he must have contracted Covid-19 there. Oh, worth mentioning - he tested positive once before getting fully vaccinated, so he has natural immunity, as well as vaccine induced. If he were unable to pass it to his wife that he lives with, or my girlfriend and I (we were out with them all day, sharing drinks, etc), the vaccines MUST be working.
Still, I understand, as much as there is a LOT of evidence to back my theory, it's still anecdotal. So, while I may believe you know x people, of which, y are vaccinated, z are unvaccinated; a contracted covid, b were vaccinated with covid and c were unvaccinated with covid; there is still no real data there. That's not how science works. Correlation, not causation.
I mention I've had Covid twice. My wife has only had is once. She was not able to quarantine away from me, but the first wave I tested positive to Covid and for antibodies, she did not for either. She did catch the second wave, but this was well before vaccination and it didn't spread to her. I will again reiterate that my point is not that people should or shouldn't get vaccinated. My point is not that one way or the other is correct. My point is that everything is flawed, no one has a complete picture, and we need to stop vilifying each other based on them not seeing the same piece of the puzzle that we are.
Current stance ON BOTH SIDES is quite often "We're right, and anyone who disagrees deserves whatever comes to them". This needs to change to "We're all humans and no one deserves to go through any of this.
"Cooking isn't about struggling; It's about pleasure. It's like sǝx, with a wider variety of sauces."
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
For what it’s worth I have had four, more than close contacts (two with multiple people) without any symptoms. Everyone in my immediate family (wife and two kids) has had contact once with multiple confirmed cases. Non of us vaccinated, no symptoms for any of us. My oldest daughter had a close contact at school, non of us had symptoms. This is not a one size fits all disease. Again just saying. I understand the science behind everything and all but not everyone will die or even be affected by this.
"We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give". Winston Churchill. MOW badge received.
@Wylaff said:
I also love how people are disagreeing that the majority of people I personally know who have been hospitalized are vaccinated.
I'm not disagreeing (nor have I seen anyone else disagree on this point), it's just anecdotal evidence, at best. My story to counter your statement:
A good friend of mine (he and his wife are both fully vaccinated - only he went to the show, not his wife) went to a small, indoor venue to see some live bands. No restrictions or rules were present at the venue, no mask mandates, no proof of vaccination needed. It was a hardcore/metal show, so yes, there was a "pit" and he was definitely in it. Now, being surrounded by sweaty, yelling, spitting people during a pandemic and not knowing if any of them were vaccinated was probably not his brightest moment but he was well aware of the risks, has done his part at mitigating those risks to himself and others around him but took a chance and went to the show.
A week later, my girlfriend and I were out with them, having some beers when he mentioned that he couldn't smell or taste anything. Since we had already been around them for a few hours, we knew there was a VERY slight risk to us. When a few days passed and he still couldn't smell or taste anything, he got tested (he felt completely fine otherwise). He tested positive on a rapid test but did a PCR test to be sure. We told any other people we had been in contact with, just as a courtesy but knowing (those people were also vaccinated) third-hand exposure between vaccinated people, given the window of time that we saw them, the chances of infection were probably somewhere around 1 in a million. Subsequently, his wife tested negative.
My girlfriend and I both got tested and quarantined until we got our results back. This meant I missed a family function but it wasn't worth the risk to me. After everything I did early on in the pandemic to mitigate the spread, it wasn't worth even this tiny risk now. We both got our results back and both tested negative.
Now, I could speculate that: because my friend went to a show where there were likely unvaccinated people, he must have contracted Covid-19 there. Oh, worth mentioning - he tested positive once before getting fully vaccinated, so he has natural immunity, as well as vaccine induced. If he were unable to pass it to his wife that he lives with, or my girlfriend and I (we were out with them all day, sharing drinks, etc), the vaccines MUST be working.
Still, I understand, as much as there is a LOT of evidence to back my theory, it's still anecdotal. So, while I may believe you know x people, of which, y are vaccinated, z are unvaccinated; a contracted covid, b were vaccinated with covid and c were unvaccinated with covid; there is still no real data there. That's not how science works. Correlation, not causation.
I didnt read the whole story (too long) so forgive me if you mentioned it. How do you know he got it from an unvaccinated person and not a vaccinated person.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
My contact tracing showed no one positive or sick before me that I had contact with. I was in a class with other first responders the couple days before I got sick. None of those people were sick. So I assume a vaccinated person gave it to me. You vaxxers should all quarantine the rest of your lives and let us live free of your virus. 😁
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@Usaf06 - that was the point of the end of the story. Any speculation I might have made would have been just that - speculation. There's data to back up my speculation but my particular story is just anecdotal. That was the point I was trying to make. Saying "I know these people that are not part of the 'norm' that's being talked about" is not data and should not be counted as such.
But it is data. You guys are just dismissing it because it didn't come from a large scale cdc study. Our choices in life, in everything we do, come from our own experiences. At least mine do. I dont trust the government. I dont trust politicians. I dont trust people who trust the government. I trust that I will make the best decision for myself based on my personal experiences. I also don't let statistics rule my life. I dont care that 1 out of 107 people will die in a car accident everyday. That doesn't stop me from driving. I dont care that I have 1 in a 11 million chance of dying in a plane crash. I will still fly. I dont care that almost 3 million people die annually from obesity related illnesses. I will still eat fast food and enjoy a good meal.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@Wylaff said:
Yes. That is biased. In different areas the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike are being hospitalized due to Covid. It is biased generalizing to state that it is all unvaccinated.
I also love how people are disagreeing that the majority of people I personally know who have been hospitalized are vaccinated.
According to Dr Robert Malone we are currently vaccinating against yesterday's virus. He was instrumental is the development of the mRna technology. He says mass vaccinations is partly the reason for the development of the more virolent strains and they will continue to grow more vaccine resistant. He also mention that vaccinated people were likely unknowingly spreading the virus, since they might be carrying a large virus load but have no symptoms.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
On another note my niece who works in a nursing home, has been advice by her doctor, not to be vaccinated due to some of her medical issues. I don't know if she'll be able to keep working with the new mandates. She is current going to nursing classes but receives some employer funding to afford it. She's been caring for Covid patients since this thing started.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
@Usaf06 - cool. Set up your "scientific" studies with your "dataset" of the 4 people you know and get it published. Good luck. I'm not getting into rhetorical debates with you. I will continue to follow Science and you continue to follow whatever it is you follow. You didn't like me the second you saw me post something that contradicts your theory of the world. I'm ok with that. I'm done debating ethos/pathos vs data/science. I'm going to continue posting science. If you want to debate, do so with data, not rhetoric. Otherwise, it will go ignored.
@d_blades - vaccinations aren't the reason for the development of more virulent strains. Mutations will occur, randomly when a virus (or a cell) replicates - much like how evolution occurs. Every once in a while, one of those mutations will make the virus more successful at surviving. Unsuccessful mutations won't be seen because they will die off. Successful ones will survive and if they are more successful than the previous iteration of the virus, they may become the dominant strain. So the virus is not making a conscious choice in mutating because our immune systems are primed and ready for it. If this were the case, no vaccine would have ever worked (nor would natural immunity by the same logic) and we'd all be dead of Polio, Small Pox or some other virus that came long before.
@Usaf06 said:
But it is data. You guys are just dismissing it because it didn't come from a large scale cdc study. Our choices in life, in everything we do, come from our own experiences. At least mine do. I dont trust the government. I dont trust politicians. I dont trust people who trust the government. I trust that I will make the best decision for myself based on my personal experiences. I also don't let statistics rule my life. I dont care that 1 out of 107 people will die in a car accident everyday. That doesn't stop me from driving. I dont care that I have 1 in a 11 million chance of dying in a plane crash. I will still fly. I dont care that almost 3 million people die annually from obesity related illnesses. I will still eat fast food and enjoy a good meal.
1 in 107 people will die in a car accident in an entire life time. Not blowing you up just correcting the statistic as I do understand your point.
@d_blades - vaccinations aren't the reason for the development of more virulent strains. Mutations will occur, randomly when a virus (or a cell) replicates - much like how evolution occurs. Every once in a while, one of those mutations will make the virus more successful at surviving. Unsuccessful mutations won't be seen because they will die off. Successful ones will survive and if they are more successful than the previous iteration of the virus, they may become the dominant strain. So the virus is not making a conscious choice in mutating because our immune systems are primed and ready for it. If this were the case, no vaccine would have ever worked (nor would natural immunity by the same logic) and we'd all be dead of Polio, Small Pox or some other virus that came long before.
What is different with bacteria that mutate to become resistant to antibiotics due to overuse? The ones that survive go on to be a problem....
@Rob1110 said: @Usaf06 - cool. Set up your "scientific" studies with your "dataset" of the 4 people you know and get it published. Good luck. I'm not getting into rhetorical debates with you. I will continue to follow Science and you continue to follow whatever it is you follow. You didn't like me the second you saw me post something that contradicts your theory of the world. I'm ok with that. I'm done debating ethos/pathos vs data/science. I'm going to continue posting science. If you want to debate, do so with data, not rhetoric. Otherwise, it will go ignored.
>
Clearly you missed the point about not living my life by statistics so taking anything to be published wouldn't make sense. I didnt start to dislike you when you contradicted me, because you havent. You have a different opinion on the issue based on statistics. I have an opinion based on experiences. You dismiss our opinions based on experiences because you can't read it in a book. That doesn't make you smart. Makes a regurgitator if statistics. You also have an elitist attitude. Let me fill you in on something kemosabe, your not better.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@silvermouse said:
What is different with bacteria that mutate to become resistant to antibiotics due to overuse? The ones that survive go on to be a problem....
I believe it's similar. Random mutations. Bacteria and Viruses mutate much more rapidly than multi-cellular organisms because they replicate at a significantly higher rate.
so, the vaccine could be doing to the virus what antibiotics are doing to the bacteria, selecting for resistance? I know there is a lot of pushback about this, just wondering if the anti-vax folk have standing when it comes to mutations.
Edward, read up on whats going on in Isreal. They have one of the highest, if not the highest, vaccine rates in the world.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Comments
The last thing I will say is again it should be a choice, but that choice should be based on facts, science and the advice of a medical dr. and not the conspiracy theory's that cloud many minds which I believe is about 10% of the population. I am probably low balling it though.
So to those I say stay at home and get out your Acme Covid survival kit. Take your horse pills with your hydrox, chase it down with some fish tank solution and a tide pod while your inhaling hydrogen peroxide, then bend over and stick the lite up ur asss and all should be good instead of cloggin up the ER.
I mean why go to the Hospital to be treated when you don't believe in science, you don't trust Dr's and you don't believe covid is real. At the end of the day it will be a Dr who is treating you, he will be using science to treat your illness or possibly save your life and if you do pass it will likely be from the one thing you don't believe is real.
Of course I still have the frying pan sticking to my head occasionally. Damn vax has tuned me into magnetized Iron Man.
You all continue to fight the good fight Im going back to just bums and cigars.
"I ain't got no Opus's"
LLA - Lancero Lovers of America
2016 Gang War (South)
May I assss u a ?
Can I just ask, does anyone here making their arguments feel like they’ve convinced anyone else of anything? Let’s all smoke a cigar.
You know this is all your fault
Feel free to disagree, but my doctor recommended that I do not get vaccinated due to the reasons I listed. Different demographic regions seem to be giving different advice. The doctors in the media and other controlled/regulated sources are saying it absolutely needs to be had by everyone, but real doctors talking to real people are not always in agreement. Therefor if I chose to not be vaccinated, it would be at the recommendation of the medical community.
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
Emergency rooms in Chicago are always full of people, before and will be after. Everyone without insurance go to emergency rooms for everything under the sun. There a lot of uninsured in Chicago.
MOW badge received.
mmm, cookies, they cure everything. Hydrox are much better than Oreos, just a word to the wise.
Oreos are better!
Chips Ahoy better then both with milk
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
That’s my disagree Nick with milk, nothing beats the Oreo
MOW badge received.
C'mon, man! I just made a big bowl of popcorn to go with the comments, and now you're gonna talk about cookies?!? What a let-down.
Because charts are easy to read and always a fun visualization of data:
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/covid-19-in-virginia/covid-19-cases-by-vaccination-status/
Yes, it's only addressing recorded cases in Virginia but it's a snapshot and it's providing useful data.
More visualizations regarding vaxed vs unvaxed in Canada, ey? While the charts may not be as pretty and easily interpreted, the message is the same:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/alberta-severe-outcomes-covid-vaccination-1.6178449
A JHU interpretation of data from a CDC study regarding Covid-19 transmission by vaccinated individuals:
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-transmission-by-vaccinated-individuals
Waning protection to vaccinated individuals in the face of the Delta variant shows decreased efficacy for infection but protection against hospitalization and severe disease is still strong:
https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/studies-covid-vaccine-protection-waning-against-infection-not
Regarding the Israel Study on natural immunity vs vaccine induced immunity:
https://www.unambiguous-science.com/442-2/
Serious question. Why do people fear the inevitable so much? “We all have to die sometime, it’s just a matter of how and when”.
MOW badge received.
I'm not disagreeing (nor have I seen anyone else disagree on this point), it's just anecdotal evidence, at best. My story to counter your statement:
A good friend of mine (he and his wife are both fully vaccinated - only he went to the show, not his wife) went to a small, indoor venue to see some live bands. No restrictions or rules were present at the venue, no mask mandates, no proof of vaccination needed. It was a hardcore/metal show, so yes, there was a "pit" and he was definitely in it. Now, being surrounded by sweaty, yelling, spitting people during a pandemic and not knowing if any of them were vaccinated was probably not his brightest moment but he was well aware of the risks, has done his part at mitigating those risks to himself and others around him but took a chance and went to the show.
A week later, my girlfriend and I were out with them, having some beers when he mentioned that he couldn't smell or taste anything. Since we had already been around them for a few hours, we knew there was a VERY slight risk to us. When a few days passed and he still couldn't smell or taste anything, he got tested (he felt completely fine otherwise). He tested positive on a rapid test but did a PCR test to be sure. We told any other people we had been in contact with, just as a courtesy but knowing (those people were also vaccinated) third-hand exposure between vaccinated people, given the window of time that we saw them, the chances of infection were probably somewhere around 1 in a million. Subsequently, his wife tested negative.
My girlfriend and I both got tested and quarantined until we got our results back. This meant I missed a family function but it wasn't worth the risk to me. After everything I did early on in the pandemic to mitigate the spread, it wasn't worth even this tiny risk now. We both got our results back and both tested negative.
Now, I could speculate that: because my friend went to a show where there were likely unvaccinated people, he must have contracted Covid-19 there. Oh, worth mentioning - he tested positive once before getting fully vaccinated, so he has natural immunity, as well as vaccine induced. If he were unable to pass it to his wife that he lives with, or my girlfriend and I (we were out with them all day, sharing drinks, etc), the vaccines MUST be working.
Still, I understand, as much as there is a LOT of evidence to back my theory, it's still anecdotal. So, while I may believe you know x people, of which, y are vaccinated, z are unvaccinated; a contracted covid, b were vaccinated with covid and c were unvaccinated with covid; there is still no real data there. That's not how science works. Correlation, not causation.
I mention I've had Covid twice. My wife has only had is once. She was not able to quarantine away from me, but the first wave I tested positive to Covid and for antibodies, she did not for either. She did catch the second wave, but this was well before vaccination and it didn't spread to her. I will again reiterate that my point is not that people should or shouldn't get vaccinated. My point is not that one way or the other is correct. My point is that everything is flawed, no one has a complete picture, and we need to stop vilifying each other based on them not seeing the same piece of the puzzle that we are.
Current stance ON BOTH SIDES is quite often "We're right, and anyone who disagrees deserves whatever comes to them". This needs to change to "We're all humans and no one deserves to go through any of this.
At any given time the urge to sing "In The Jungle" is just a whim away... A whim away... A whim away...
For what it’s worth I have had four, more than close contacts (two with multiple people) without any symptoms. Everyone in my immediate family (wife and two kids) has had contact once with multiple confirmed cases. Non of us vaccinated, no symptoms for any of us. My oldest daughter had a close contact at school, non of us had symptoms. This is not a one size fits all disease. Again just saying. I understand the science behind everything and all but not everyone will die or even be affected by this.
MOW badge received.
I didnt read the whole story (too long) so forgive me if you mentioned it. How do you know he got it from an unvaccinated person and not a vaccinated person.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
My contact tracing showed no one positive or sick before me that I had contact with. I was in a class with other first responders the couple days before I got sick. None of those people were sick. So I assume a vaccinated person gave it to me. You vaxxers should all quarantine the rest of your lives and let us live free of your virus. 😁
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@Usaf06 - that was the point of the end of the story. Any speculation I might have made would have been just that - speculation. There's data to back up my speculation but my particular story is just anecdotal. That was the point I was trying to make. Saying "I know these people that are not part of the 'norm' that's being talked about" is not data and should not be counted as such.
But it is data. You guys are just dismissing it because it didn't come from a large scale cdc study. Our choices in life, in everything we do, come from our own experiences. At least mine do. I dont trust the government. I dont trust politicians. I dont trust people who trust the government. I trust that I will make the best decision for myself based on my personal experiences. I also don't let statistics rule my life. I dont care that 1 out of 107 people will die in a car accident everyday. That doesn't stop me from driving. I dont care that I have 1 in a 11 million chance of dying in a plane crash. I will still fly. I dont care that almost 3 million people die annually from obesity related illnesses. I will still eat fast food and enjoy a good meal.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
According to Dr Robert Malone we are currently vaccinating against yesterday's virus. He was instrumental is the development of the mRna technology. He says mass vaccinations is partly the reason for the development of the more virolent strains and they will continue to grow more vaccine resistant. He also mention that vaccinated people were likely unknowingly spreading the virus, since they might be carrying a large virus load but have no symptoms.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
On another note my niece who works in a nursing home, has been advice by her doctor, not to be vaccinated due to some of her medical issues. I don't know if she'll be able to keep working with the new mandates. She is current going to nursing classes but receives some employer funding to afford it. She's been caring for Covid patients since this thing started.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
@Usaf06 - cool. Set up your "scientific" studies with your "dataset" of the 4 people you know and get it published. Good luck. I'm not getting into rhetorical debates with you. I will continue to follow Science and you continue to follow whatever it is you follow. You didn't like me the second you saw me post something that contradicts your theory of the world. I'm ok with that. I'm done debating ethos/pathos vs data/science. I'm going to continue posting science. If you want to debate, do so with data, not rhetoric. Otherwise, it will go ignored.
@d_blades - vaccinations aren't the reason for the development of more virulent strains. Mutations will occur, randomly when a virus (or a cell) replicates - much like how evolution occurs. Every once in a while, one of those mutations will make the virus more successful at surviving. Unsuccessful mutations won't be seen because they will die off. Successful ones will survive and if they are more successful than the previous iteration of the virus, they may become the dominant strain. So the virus is not making a conscious choice in mutating because our immune systems are primed and ready for it. If this were the case, no vaccine would have ever worked (nor would natural immunity by the same logic) and we'd all be dead of Polio, Small Pox or some other virus that came long before.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5075021/
https://hub.jhu.edu/2021/07/19/andrew-pekosz-delta-variants/
Also, Robert Malone:
https://www.logically.ai/articles/who-is-dr.-robert-malone
https://www.facebook.com/unbiasedscipod/posts/344638130657857
I remember this coming up a few months ago.
1 in 107 people will die in a car accident in an entire life time. Not blowing you up just correcting the statistic as I do understand your point.
@d_blades - not to pry (and don't feel like you have to answer) but is your niece immuno-compromised in some way? I hope she's ok and stays safe.
What is different with bacteria that mutate to become resistant to antibiotics due to overuse? The ones that survive go on to be a problem....
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Clearly you missed the point about not living my life by statistics so taking anything to be published wouldn't make sense. I didnt start to dislike you when you contradicted me, because you havent. You have a different opinion on the issue based on statistics. I have an opinion based on experiences. You dismiss our opinions based on experiences because you can't read it in a book. That doesn't make you smart. Makes a regurgitator if statistics. You also have an elitist attitude. Let me fill you in on something kemosabe, your not better.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I believe it's similar. Random mutations. Bacteria and Viruses mutate much more rapidly than multi-cellular organisms because they replicate at a significantly higher rate.
https://www.drugs.com/article/antibiotic-resistance.html
https://www.reactgroup.org/toolbox/understand/antibiotic-resistance/mutation-and-selection/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29764951/
so, the vaccine could be doing to the virus what antibiotics are doing to the bacteria, selecting for resistance? I know there is a lot of pushback about this, just wondering if the anti-vax folk have standing when it comes to mutations.
Edward, read up on whats going on in Isreal. They have one of the highest, if not the highest, vaccine rates in the world.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter