"You'll never go broke betting on the gullibility of the American public." P.T. Barnum (paraphrased)
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Regeneron says half its COVID-19 treatment doses are being sent to 4 low-vaccination states
Peter Weber, Senior editor
August 26, 2021·2 min read
Health officials agree that if you are newly infected with COVID-19 and have an above-average risk of getting seriously ill, you should quickly seek treatment with Regeneron Pharmaceuticals' monoclonal antibody therapy. The federal government is covering the costs, some states have set up free infusion centers, and the antibody cocktail has been shown to reduce hospitalization rates by 70 percent for high-risk COVID-19 patients treated within 10 days.
"They are safe, they are free, they keep people out of the hospital and help keep them alive," Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith, a senior adviser to the White House's COVID-19 response team, said at an Aug. 12 White House briefing.
But the loudest promotion of Regeneron's experimental treatment is coming from the governors of Texas and Florida, "where vaccinations lag and hospitalizations are soaring with Delta-variant infections" even as the governors "downplay vaccination and other measures that health officials say can prevent illness in the first place," Kaiser Health News reports. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who received Regeneron's lab-produced antibody cocktail earlier this month, on Wednesday banned government entities from requiring FDA-approved vaccinations.
The FDA approved Regeneron's treatment on an emergency use basis late last year, but few people used it as the vaccines became available and helped crush infections and hospitalizations. Then the Delta variant took hold. Since mid-July, Regeneron deliveries have "soared from 25,000 doses to 125,000 doses per week, with about half shipped to four states: Florida, Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama," Kaiser Health News reports, citing Regeneron spokeswoman Alexandra Bowie.
This "expensive, cumbersome, and difficult-to-use therapy" is "not a substitute for vaccine, by any means," Dr. Christian Ramers, an infectious disease specialist at Family Health Centers of San Diego, tells Kaiser Health News. "It's like playing defense with no offense."
Regeneron's infusions cost about $1,250 a dose, not counting the hundreds of dollars to transport the drug and administer the hour-long infusion, Kaiser Health News notes. "The federal government is also covering the costs of COVID vaccination, at about $20 a dose."
Both of those interventions are much less expensive than hospitalizing COVID-19 patients. But it's "fiscally irresponsible" and "downright despicable for 'small government conservatives' to look to the federal government to dole out the most extravagant rescues for their states when they've so willingly squandered — and impeded — the far more prudent and effective measures" like vaccines and masks, Neil J. Young writes at The Week.
And a clear answer to the Religious Exemption question.
Recently, religious exemption requests for vaccines have increased, which begs the question: is there a religion that forbids vaccines?
The only religions that disapprove of vaccines are the Christian Scientists & the Dutch Reformed Church, which have tiny congregations (less than 0.00005% of the global population). Most people who claim religious exemption don’t have an actual justification.
Many mention the use of fetal cells. There are NO fetal cells in any vaccines. In the 1970s & 80s, cells were grown in a lab from fetal tissue biopsies. Those cells have multiplied, creating a “cell line.” Current cell lines are thousands of generations removed from the original cells. These cells are used during research & are not in the vaccine itself.
If one claims religious exemption because of the use of fetal cell lines, they should know that countless medications (even over-the-counter ones) have used these in research.
An Arkansas hospital compiled a list for staff requesting religious exemptions. Over 30 common medications their staff must pledge not to use because of their religious objection, among them Tylenol, Advil, Benadryl, Claritin, Pepto Bismol, Sudafed, Zoloft, Tums, & Motrin.
Pope Francis has urged people to get vaccinated & called it “an act of love” possible by “God’s grace & the work of many.”
Other Leaders of major religions have urged their congregations to get vaccinated, such as the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church & the Jewish Orthodox Union.
The Qur’ān prohibits the use of foods, such as pork. This isn’t an issue with COVID-19 vaccines, & Islamic tradition says vaccination serves to protect life & respects the principle of preventing harm.
Buddhists stress that vaccines save lives and are necessary to protect each other.
Studies demonstrate that as religious exemptions increase, the more vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks occur. With COVID-19, more religious exemptions have been requested than ever before.
It is clear that most attempt this as a legal loophole for not getting vaccinated. Understand that more than likely, your religion does not disapprove of vaccines -- and consider you are not only harming yourself, but others.
People: "We need to get out of this pandemic and re-open the country so our economy doesn't crash!"
Scientists: "Here's a vaccine to move towards ending the pandemic so we can safely re-open the country so our economy doesn't crash."
People: "We don't want it."
Yup, f'd up is f'd up.
Really, it's just asking people to stick to their ridiculous, uneducated claims. If you're hard against something for a particular reason, you should stick to your guns and apply that to all situations that fall under the same circumstances. If someone said "I'm gluten free and willing to lose my job to avoid eating gluten products" then went and ordered a large pizza, it might make you wonder - are they stupid, misinformed or just trying to play the system?
Agreed, the approach seems childish but that can be said for both sides. And yeah, maybe pizza was a terrible example because making someone swear off pizza could lead to mass destruction.
Maybe I should have went with "they ordered a tuna sandwich on whole wheat."
@Rob1110 said:
Agreed, the approach seems childish but that can be said for both sides. And yeah, maybe pizza was a terrible example because making someone swear off pizza could lead to mass destruction.
Maybe I should have went with "they ordered a tuna sandwich on whole wheat."
It was terrible, everyone knows that gluten intolerance is a myth. Like Wyoming and the female ****
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@Rob1110 said:
Agreed, the approach seems childish but that can be said for both sides. And yeah, maybe pizza was a terrible example because making someone swear off pizza could lead to mass destruction.
Maybe I should have went with "they ordered a tuna sandwich on whole wheat."
It was terrible, everyone knows that gluten intolerance is a myth. Like Wyoming and the female ****
I thought gluten made your **** shoot off?
Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Tree-Dwellers
I guess those 67 people were also real true defenders of the population and the heroes that they write books about, except they don't want to get a shot so they quit instead. Taking their ball and going home.
They should have claimed religious exemption. Or maybe health exemption, because most of the state troopers I know can easily play seesaw with my fat ass
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
@Rob1110 forgot who loves research You sure did get some of these facts wrong. You know I'm on your side most of the time, but the issue with the fetal cells is not that the vaccine contains them. It is that they were used as part of the research to make the vaccine. This makes it illegal for them. You're drawing a technical line in a different spot where they are.
Again, like I've said to the other guy in this thread before, you have to come to the party trying to see the other side. The line that you drew, which is fetal cells are not in the vaccine so it doesn't matter, is not the same line that they drew, which is fetal cells were used.
My wife won't go to hobby lobby because they have health insurance that doesn't cover birth control pills. Never mind that everyone who works there knows this and continues to work there despite this fact, so nobody's really being restricted in their freedoms. But she still doesn't go in protest to this policy. Moral of the story is that you can't decide for everybody else a big or small to connection to something is for each person individually.
You are right and that there are many common household medications and remedies that would fall into the same classification as the covid vaccine. You're right that these include Tylenol Advil Motrin and whatever else.
But your assumption but these people who are asking for the religious exemption are also swallowing down all of the other things that fall into the same category is false. How do you know? You just assume that everyone has Tylenol in their house because you have Tylenol in your house?
By the way, it's also questionable as to whether Jehovah's witness followers can take the vaccine. You can go to watchtower.com and see what the official line is, but the people are going to follow the leaders of the churches in their neighborhoods. Don't be quite so dismissive of the human factor in this case.
Come on man you're better than this.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
At a federal level, the vaccine mandate question is more complicated. With few exceptions, the CRS says there are no laws that allow the federal government to issue a vaccine mandate to the general population. These exceptions include requiring proof of vaccination for immigrants requesting permanent resident status and vaccine mandates for military service members—allowing for certain exemptions.
I guess those 67 people were also real true defenders of the population and the heroes that they write books about, except they don't want to get a shot so they quit instead. Taking their ball and going home.
They should have claimed religious exemption. Or maybe health exemption, because most of the state troopers I know can easily play seesaw with my fat ass
By separated it means fired. Not quitting
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
@VegasFrank - Actually, there have been conspiracy theories stating that the vaccine contains aborted fetal tissue. Though those have been debunked time and time again but so has the flat earth theory and there are still people out there that buy into it.
I also didn't say or assume their line in the sand was in any place or that I was rebutting the use of a cell line derived from fetal tissue (BTW, the post wasn't my words but a re-post from the Unbiased Science crew). But the fact remains that 293 cells are VERY commonly used in scientific research for multiple reasons - they're easy to culture, propagate readily and quickly, take to transfection easily and can be made to express most proteins in the human genome. I have cultured 293 cells and have used them in QC experiments in Antibody development for research. Much of that research is geared towards cancer therapeutics, so that's another one to add to the list. I can't think of a single cancer therapeutic developed in the last few decades that wouldn't have used at least 1 human cell line at some point in its research. And for the people on their moral high horse, the argument can also be made for any research involving HeLa cells (named for and cultured from Henrietta Lacks - the first immortalized human cell line - absolutely crucial to arguably all medical research done since the 50s) for the unethical treatment of an African-American woman - specifically, the legality and morality of using tissue/cell samples from a human without their consent or knowledge.
So, if the idea that fetal cells may have been used in the research and development of the Covid vaccine causes people to reject it; by logic, they should also reject all other products developed with those cells, including most cancer therapeutics, the drugs listed above (though aspirin was developed well before the 70s when these cells were first cultured, 293s have been used in research on aspirin since) and even Regeneron's mAb infusion (so everyone touting new treatment as a way to avoid the vaccine, should be aware of this). It would be like your wife avoiding hobby lobby because of the health insurance not covering birth control pills, instead shopping at another vendor whose health insurance also doesn't cover birth control pills.
Again, my issue with taking a hard stance is when that stance is based on misinformation or lack of information. 293 cells are no longer considered "fetal tissue" because they've been cultured for so many generations (293 cells divide very rapidly and will outgrow a 15cm plate in 3-5 days before having to be split to additional plates). It's kind of like saying "I don't like Romanians because Vlad the Impaler was Romanian." Only, it's more removed, so it's almost like saying "I don't like anyone named Dave because there was once a caveman named Dave and he was a real pecker."
I'm not assuming anyone has Tylenol in their house, I'm just saying people should be aware of and educated on issues that they draw a hard line in the sand on. I'm fully aware of the human factor but also believe in educating yourself on both sides. I'm trying to educate myself on their stance but most of the rhetoric seems to stem from misunderstanding or lack of education in the best of cases. The worst of cases (and my girlfriend and I have family members - her brother and my brother to be specific) seem to be pure stubbornness of "I don't like being told what to do."
Well, as I've opined, vaccines tend to be good things. This vaccine, developed from the MERS vaccine over the last 20 or so years, may be the most thoroughly studied vaccine mankind has ever produced. I've had pneumonia 9 times in my life, but not since I got my pneumonia vaccine. I could go on about that, because I've had many vaccines, all of which seem to have been safe and effective, and I've never had a repeat of a disease I've been vaccinated against. Awesome, in my book.
However, I'm generally against mandates. Of course, it's long been established that ones employer can mandate whatever they desire, and you either comply or lose your job. There's a long history of that in our country, so I don't think arguments will hold up in that arena.
All in all, though, I'm for freedom of individual choice. Perhaps it's simply time to let Darwin's theories stand. Let people decide. If you die, you die, nothing I can do about that.
Me? I'll keep getting vaccinated. Got my flu shot this week. I've had the flu, didn't like it. Y'all do whatever your thing is.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
@Rob1110 said: @VegasFrank - Actually, there have been conspiracy theories stating that the vaccine contains aborted fetal tissue. Though those have been debunked time and time again but so has the flat earth theory and there are still people out there that buy into it.
Yeah but you assumed that people are acting on this bad knowledge when you don't know what their knowledge level is. People could very well be acting on the correct knowledge that this vaccine, like many other vaccines, are derived from the human stem cells. In that case, they refuse to take it and any other vaccine that was also derived from the same source.
The argument or theory The people are either choosing this vaccine to exercise a religious exemption or unwittingly taking other vaccines without realizing that the same thing applies is a non-sequitur.
I also didn't say or assume their line in the sand was in any place or that I was rebutting the use of a cell line derived from fetal tissue (BTW, the post wasn't my words but a re-post from the Unbiased Science crew).
No you didn't but you incorrectly asserted that nobody other than two tiny religions have correct factual foundation for protest to a vaccine. That in and of itself is an incorrect generalization. Most people who practice a religion don't keep a handbook of the rules next to the bedside table. They know what the basic foundations and beliefs are and they follow them because they feel it's the right thing to do. To bring some anecdotal evidence into this, I have two individuals who work for me who have claimed a religious exemption for taking the vaccine. One is some version of Mormon and the other one is some version of Sikh. Both of them accurately claim that tenants of their religion states that they are not to use medicines or products come from human stem cells both of them acknowledge that their religious leaders have said it's okay to get the coronavirus vaccine. Both of them refuse to do so because of their personal beliefs.
Religion is personal, brother. No matter how many rich guys run it, it's allure to individuals is that it is practiced individually.
So, if the idea that fetal cells may have been used in the research and development of the Covid vaccine causes people to reject it; by logic, they should also reject all other products developed with those cells, including most cancer therapeutics, the drugs listed above
Of course. And you either said or insinuated that this isn't happening with people claiming religious exemptions. While there's undoubtedly lots of people who are taking advantage of a religious exemption in their own personal situations to avoid the vaccine, those who are honestly requesting a religious exemption are most likely not dealing in any of the products you mentioned or didn't mention that also run along the same lines. The fact that you didn't mention this or just dismissed an entirely further exemplifies your bias.
Again, my issue with taking a hard stance is when that stance is based on misinformation or lack of information. 293 cells are no longer considered "fetal tissue" because they've been cultured for so many generations
For you this is true. For someone else that may not be. Don't impose your own belief system onto others.
I'm not assuming anyone has Tylenol in their house, I'm just saying people should be aware of and educated on issues that they draw a hard line in the sand on. I'm fully aware of the human factor but also believe in educating yourself on both sides.
Then educate yourself on both sides! Both sides! You're fully aware of the human factor, but you dismiss it nonetheless. The human factor has a side That is sometimes less swayed by logic and more swayed by emotions. You will never reach the other side until you realize it, believe it, and then structure your argument to account for it.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Lol speech to text! Hahaha I didn't proof that one.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Yeah but you assumed that people are acting on this bad knowledge when you don't know what their knowledge level is. People could very well be acting on the correct knowledge that this vaccine, like many other vaccines, are derived from the human stem cells. In that case, they refuse to take it and any other vaccine that was also derived from the same source.
Are you not making assumptions that everyone asking for religious exemptions has only the purest of intentions? I'm simply putting out information regarding religious exemptions that thought leaders of particular religions have stated (that vaccines, when in the interest of public health are ok), as well as thoughts by the scientific community (that HEK293 cells are no longer considered fetal tissue). What people do with that information is up to them. If you don't want to be vaccinated, that's on you (not directed at you but in general). If you'd like to be informed on the decision, here's some information. And if you (again, not you specifically) don't want to be informed or wish to follow false information or snake oil cures, again, that's not on me.
No you didn't but you incorrectly asserted that nobody other than two tiny religions have correct factual foundation for protest to a vaccine. That in and of itself is an incorrect generalization. Most people who practice a religion don't keep a handbook of the rules next to the bedside table. They know what the basic foundations and beliefs are and they follow them because they feel it's the right thing to do. To bring some anecdotal evidence into this, I have two individuals who work for me who have claimed a religious exemption for taking the vaccine. One is some version of Mormon and the other one is some version of Sikh. Both of them accurately claim that tenants of their religion states that they are not to use medicines or products come from human stem cells both of them acknowledge that their religious leaders have said it's okay to get the coronavirus vaccine. Both of them refuse to do so because of their personal beliefs.
Religion is personal, brother. No matter how many rich guys run it, it's allure to individuals is that it is practiced individually.
Of course. And you either said or insinuated that this isn't happening with people claiming religious exemptions. While there's undoubtedly lots of people who are taking advantage of a religious exemption in their own personal situations to avoid the vaccine, those who are honestly requesting a religious exemption are most likely not dealing in any of the products you mentioned or didn't mention that also run along the same lines. The fact that you didn't mention this or just dismissed an entirely further exemplifies your bias.
Again, I'm not refuting anyone's belief system or telling them they don't have the right to feel the way they feel. Unfortunately, we can't give people a lie-detector when they request religious exemptions to tell if they're being genuine or taking advantage of the system. If anything, I whole-heartedly sympathize with someone who, takes in all information, understands the evidence from both sides and makes an informed decision not to be vaccinated because of a moral stance. That's not my problem. My problem is with people who have found a loop-hole in the system and cry wolf, simply to get what they want.
Then educate yourself on both sides! Both sides! You're fully aware of the human factor, but you dismiss it nonetheless. The human factor has a side That is sometimes less swayed by logic and more swayed by emotions. You will never reach the other side until you realize it, believe it, and then structure your argument to account for it.
I'm not dismissing any other side. Again, I sympathize with genuine people but I can't relate to the toddler mind-set of too many adults. The people who don't want to have the conversation, hear the other side, dismiss the data, dig their heels in and start shouting. There's no argument to structure because the only thing they want to hear is "yeah, you're absolutely right, you shouldn't get the vaccine." End of conversation. Anything else that is said beyond that is useless. That's why I won't have that argument with that type of person. I'll provide information to the vaccine hesitant - to the people looking for answers or more information.
I appreciate your comments and tenacity to have everyone understand all sides of an argument.
I'm not dismissing any other side. Again, I sympathize with genuine people but I can't relate to the toddler mind-set of too many adults. The people who don't want to have the conversation, hear the other side, dismiss the data, dig their heels in and start shouting.
You literally dismissed another side.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list. Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
@Rob1110 said:
Are you not making assumptions that everyone asking for religious exemptions has only the purest of intentions?
No actually I'm not. You're reading my words not my message. I even said that there is undoubtedly lots of people who are using a religious exemption when they don't really believe. Those are actually my words.
Your message Is that there's no such thing as a religious exemption because only 0.000004% of the world's population believe in the two religions that you personally confirmed don't want you to take the vaccine.
My message is that religion is personal. Science science facts facts facts, you say that you understand the human element but then you dismiss it with science and facts.
We all know the science and facts are there. But then you threw out bad facts based on bad research. That destroys the science and fact guy. When you use false information and your whole argument is built on the facts, you lose because your credibility is gone.
And I'm on your side! But you lose.
Unfortunately, we can't give people a lie-detector when they request religious exemptions to tell if they're being genuine or taking advantage of the system...My problem is with people who have found a loop-hole in the system and cry wolf, simply to get what they want.
Here in lies the problem with society. Technology has given us access to more information than ever before, and now we want 100% solutions.
Your message seems to say that you wouldn't mind the religious exemption if nobody took advantage of it for other than religious reasons. It's not up to you bro. You're going to have people who take advantage.
Time to put on your big boy panties and get over it. You do you like you said. Let them do them.
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
"I drink a great deal. I sleep a little, and I smoke cigar after cigar. That is why I am in two-hundred-percent form." -- Winston Churchill "LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
You sure did put a lot of effort into not giving a shít...
Disclaimer: All trolling is provided for the sole entertainment purposes of the author only. Readers may find entertainment and hard core truths, but none are intended. Any resulting damaged feelings or arse chapping of the reader are the sole responsibility of the reader, to include, but not limited to: crying, anger, revenge pørn, and abandonment or deletion of ccom accounts. Offer void in Utah because Utah is terrible.
Comments
"You'll never go broke betting on the gullibility of the American public." P.T. Barnum (paraphrased)
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Do them shiny hats make your head sweat?
Regeneron says half its COVID-19 treatment doses are being sent to 4 low-vaccination states
Peter Weber, Senior editor
August 26, 2021·2 min read
Health officials agree that if you are newly infected with COVID-19 and have an above-average risk of getting seriously ill, you should quickly seek treatment with Regeneron Pharmaceuticals' monoclonal antibody therapy. The federal government is covering the costs, some states have set up free infusion centers, and the antibody cocktail has been shown to reduce hospitalization rates by 70 percent for high-risk COVID-19 patients treated within 10 days.
"They are safe, they are free, they keep people out of the hospital and help keep them alive," Dr. Marcella Nunez-Smith, a senior adviser to the White House's COVID-19 response team, said at an Aug. 12 White House briefing.
But the loudest promotion of Regeneron's experimental treatment is coming from the governors of Texas and Florida, "where vaccinations lag and hospitalizations are soaring with Delta-variant infections" even as the governors "downplay vaccination and other measures that health officials say can prevent illness in the first place," Kaiser Health News reports. Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who received Regeneron's lab-produced antibody cocktail earlier this month, on Wednesday banned government entities from requiring FDA-approved vaccinations.
The FDA approved Regeneron's treatment on an emergency use basis late last year, but few people used it as the vaccines became available and helped crush infections and hospitalizations. Then the Delta variant took hold. Since mid-July, Regeneron deliveries have "soared from 25,000 doses to 125,000 doses per week, with about half shipped to four states: Florida, Texas, Mississippi, and Alabama," Kaiser Health News reports, citing Regeneron spokeswoman Alexandra Bowie.
This "expensive, cumbersome, and difficult-to-use therapy" is "not a substitute for vaccine, by any means," Dr. Christian Ramers, an infectious disease specialist at Family Health Centers of San Diego, tells Kaiser Health News. "It's like playing defense with no offense."
Regeneron's infusions cost about $1,250 a dose, not counting the hundreds of dollars to transport the drug and administer the hour-long infusion, Kaiser Health News notes. "The federal government is also covering the costs of COVID vaccination, at about $20 a dose."
Both of those interventions are much less expensive than hospitalizing COVID-19 patients. But it's "fiscally irresponsible" and "downright despicable for 'small government conservatives' to look to the federal government to dole out the most extravagant rescues for their states when they've so willingly squandered — and impeded — the far more prudent and effective measures" like vaccines and masks, Neil J. Young writes at The Week.
And a clear answer to the Religious Exemption question.
Recently, religious exemption requests for vaccines have increased, which begs the question: is there a religion that forbids vaccines?
The only religions that disapprove of vaccines are the Christian Scientists & the Dutch Reformed Church, which have tiny congregations (less than 0.00005% of the global population). Most people who claim religious exemption don’t have an actual justification.
Many mention the use of fetal cells. There are NO fetal cells in any vaccines. In the 1970s & 80s, cells were grown in a lab from fetal tissue biopsies. Those cells have multiplied, creating a “cell line.” Current cell lines are thousands of generations removed from the original cells. These cells are used during research & are not in the vaccine itself.
If one claims religious exemption because of the use of fetal cell lines, they should know that countless medications (even over-the-counter ones) have used these in research.
An Arkansas hospital compiled a list for staff requesting religious exemptions. Over 30 common medications their staff must pledge not to use because of their religious objection, among them Tylenol, Advil, Benadryl, Claritin, Pepto Bismol, Sudafed, Zoloft, Tums, & Motrin.
Pope Francis has urged people to get vaccinated & called it “an act of love” possible by “God’s grace & the work of many.”
Other Leaders of major religions have urged their congregations to get vaccinated, such as the Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church & the Jewish Orthodox Union.
The Qur’ān prohibits the use of foods, such as pork. This isn’t an issue with COVID-19 vaccines, & Islamic tradition says vaccination serves to protect life & respects the principle of preventing harm.
Buddhists stress that vaccines save lives and are necessary to protect each other.
Studies demonstrate that as religious exemptions increase, the more vaccine-preventable disease outbreaks occur. With COVID-19, more religious exemptions have been requested than ever before.
It is clear that most attempt this as a legal loophole for not getting vaccinated. Understand that more than likely, your religion does not disapprove of vaccines -- and consider you are not only harming yourself, but others.
Sources:
https://lozierinstitute.org/.../09.17.20-Fetal-Cell-Line...
https://www.nebraskamed.com/.../you-asked-we-answered-do...
https://www.kark.com/.../arkansas-hospital-lets-staff.../
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5141457/...
https://www.historyofvaccines.org/.../religion...
-Unbiased Science
Pledge not to use pepto so you Don’t have to take a shot just to keep a job at a time when you can’t find workers to begin with.
You guys now I don’t care if you’re left or right but fvcked up is fvcked up! 🤷🏻♂️
People: "We need to get out of this pandemic and re-open the country so our economy doesn't crash!"
Scientists: "Here's a vaccine to move towards ending the pandemic so we can safely re-open the country so our economy doesn't crash."
People: "We don't want it."
Yup, f'd up is f'd up.
Really, it's just asking people to stick to their ridiculous, uneducated claims. If you're hard against something for a particular reason, you should stick to your guns and apply that to all situations that fall under the same circumstances. If someone said "I'm gluten free and willing to lose my job to avoid eating gluten products" then went and ordered a large pizza, it might make you wonder - are they stupid, misinformed or just trying to play the system?
Ok fine but making a person pinky swear not to eat a pizza is childish.
I’ll go back to timeout now
Agreed, the approach seems childish but that can be said for both sides. And yeah, maybe pizza was a terrible example because making someone swear off pizza could lead to mass destruction.
Maybe I should have went with "they ordered a tuna sandwich on whole wheat."
It was terrible, everyone knows that gluten intolerance is a myth. Like Wyoming and the female ****
Keeping em safe.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
I thought gluten made your **** shoot off?
Coalition for the Liberation of Itinerant Tree-Dwellers
I guess those 67 people were also real true defenders of the population and the heroes that they write books about, except they don't want to get a shot so they quit instead. Taking their ball and going home.
They should have claimed religious exemption. Or maybe health exemption, because most of the state troopers I know can easily play seesaw with my fat ass
@Rob1110 forgot who loves research You sure did get some of these facts wrong. You know I'm on your side most of the time, but the issue with the fetal cells is not that the vaccine contains them. It is that they were used as part of the research to make the vaccine. This makes it illegal for them. You're drawing a technical line in a different spot where they are.
Again, like I've said to the other guy in this thread before, you have to come to the party trying to see the other side. The line that you drew, which is fetal cells are not in the vaccine so it doesn't matter, is not the same line that they drew, which is fetal cells were used.
My wife won't go to hobby lobby because they have health insurance that doesn't cover birth control pills. Never mind that everyone who works there knows this and continues to work there despite this fact, so nobody's really being restricted in their freedoms. But she still doesn't go in protest to this policy. Moral of the story is that you can't decide for everybody else a big or small to connection to something is for each person individually.
You are right and that there are many common household medications and remedies that would fall into the same classification as the covid vaccine. You're right that these include Tylenol Advil Motrin and whatever else.
But your assumption but these people who are asking for the religious exemption are also swallowing down all of the other things that fall into the same category is false. How do you know? You just assume that everyone has Tylenol in their house because you have Tylenol in your house?
By the way, it's also questionable as to whether Jehovah's witness followers can take the vaccine. You can go to watchtower.com and see what the official line is, but the people are going to follow the leaders of the churches in their neighborhoods. Don't be quite so dismissive of the human factor in this case.
Come on man you're better than this.
At a federal level, the vaccine mandate question is more complicated. With few exceptions, the CRS says there are no laws that allow the federal government to issue a vaccine mandate to the general population. These exceptions include requiring proof of vaccination for immigrants requesting permanent resident status and vaccine mandates for military service members—allowing for certain exemptions.
https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/blog/current-constitutional-issues-related-to-vaccine-mandates
Federal mandates are overreach, just like the Congresses attempts to override the constitutional authority of states to run elections.
Don't let the wife know what you spend on guns, ammo or cigars.
https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-health-russia-europe-vladimir-putin-a9a05379a2f571ee84d68fd3bbc15f41
By separated it means fired. Not quitting
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
Don't they have qualified immunity?
https://www.yahoo.com/news/nih-admits-funding-gain-function-125103852.html
MOW badge received.
@VegasFrank - Actually, there have been conspiracy theories stating that the vaccine contains aborted fetal tissue. Though those have been debunked time and time again but so has the flat earth theory and there are still people out there that buy into it.
I also didn't say or assume their line in the sand was in any place or that I was rebutting the use of a cell line derived from fetal tissue (BTW, the post wasn't my words but a re-post from the Unbiased Science crew). But the fact remains that 293 cells are VERY commonly used in scientific research for multiple reasons - they're easy to culture, propagate readily and quickly, take to transfection easily and can be made to express most proteins in the human genome. I have cultured 293 cells and have used them in QC experiments in Antibody development for research. Much of that research is geared towards cancer therapeutics, so that's another one to add to the list. I can't think of a single cancer therapeutic developed in the last few decades that wouldn't have used at least 1 human cell line at some point in its research. And for the people on their moral high horse, the argument can also be made for any research involving HeLa cells (named for and cultured from Henrietta Lacks - the first immortalized human cell line - absolutely crucial to arguably all medical research done since the 50s) for the unethical treatment of an African-American woman - specifically, the legality and morality of using tissue/cell samples from a human without their consent or knowledge.
So, if the idea that fetal cells may have been used in the research and development of the Covid vaccine causes people to reject it; by logic, they should also reject all other products developed with those cells, including most cancer therapeutics, the drugs listed above (though aspirin was developed well before the 70s when these cells were first cultured, 293s have been used in research on aspirin since) and even Regeneron's mAb infusion (so everyone touting new treatment as a way to avoid the vaccine, should be aware of this). It would be like your wife avoiding hobby lobby because of the health insurance not covering birth control pills, instead shopping at another vendor whose health insurance also doesn't cover birth control pills.
Again, my issue with taking a hard stance is when that stance is based on misinformation or lack of information. 293 cells are no longer considered "fetal tissue" because they've been cultured for so many generations (293 cells divide very rapidly and will outgrow a 15cm plate in 3-5 days before having to be split to additional plates). It's kind of like saying "I don't like Romanians because Vlad the Impaler was Romanian." Only, it's more removed, so it's almost like saying "I don't like anyone named Dave because there was once a caveman named Dave and he was a real pecker."
I'm not assuming anyone has Tylenol in their house, I'm just saying people should be aware of and educated on issues that they draw a hard line in the sand on. I'm fully aware of the human factor but also believe in educating yourself on both sides. I'm trying to educate myself on their stance but most of the rhetoric seems to stem from misunderstanding or lack of education in the best of cases. The worst of cases (and my girlfriend and I have family members - her brother and my brother to be specific) seem to be pure stubbornness of "I don't like being told what to do."
Well, as I've opined, vaccines tend to be good things. This vaccine, developed from the MERS vaccine over the last 20 or so years, may be the most thoroughly studied vaccine mankind has ever produced. I've had pneumonia 9 times in my life, but not since I got my pneumonia vaccine. I could go on about that, because I've had many vaccines, all of which seem to have been safe and effective, and I've never had a repeat of a disease I've been vaccinated against. Awesome, in my book.
However, I'm generally against mandates. Of course, it's long been established that ones employer can mandate whatever they desire, and you either comply or lose your job. There's a long history of that in our country, so I don't think arguments will hold up in that arena.
All in all, though, I'm for freedom of individual choice. Perhaps it's simply time to let Darwin's theories stand. Let people decide. If you die, you die, nothing I can do about that.
Me? I'll keep getting vaccinated. Got my flu shot this week. I've had the flu, didn't like it. Y'all do whatever your thing is.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Yeah but you assumed that people are acting on this bad knowledge when you don't know what their knowledge level is. People could very well be acting on the correct knowledge that this vaccine, like many other vaccines, are derived from the human stem cells. In that case, they refuse to take it and any other vaccine that was also derived from the same source.
The argument or theory The people are either choosing this vaccine to exercise a religious exemption or unwittingly taking other vaccines without realizing that the same thing applies is a non-sequitur.
No you didn't but you incorrectly asserted that nobody other than two tiny religions have correct factual foundation for protest to a vaccine. That in and of itself is an incorrect generalization. Most people who practice a religion don't keep a handbook of the rules next to the bedside table. They know what the basic foundations and beliefs are and they follow them because they feel it's the right thing to do. To bring some anecdotal evidence into this, I have two individuals who work for me who have claimed a religious exemption for taking the vaccine. One is some version of Mormon and the other one is some version of Sikh. Both of them accurately claim that tenants of their religion states that they are not to use medicines or products come from human stem cells both of them acknowledge that their religious leaders have said it's okay to get the coronavirus vaccine. Both of them refuse to do so because of their personal beliefs.
Religion is personal, brother. No matter how many rich guys run it, it's allure to individuals is that it is practiced individually.
Of course. And you either said or insinuated that this isn't happening with people claiming religious exemptions. While there's undoubtedly lots of people who are taking advantage of a religious exemption in their own personal situations to avoid the vaccine, those who are honestly requesting a religious exemption are most likely not dealing in any of the products you mentioned or didn't mention that also run along the same lines. The fact that you didn't mention this or just dismissed an entirely further exemplifies your bias.
For you this is true. For someone else that may not be. Don't impose your own belief system onto others.
Then educate yourself on both sides! Both sides! You're fully aware of the human factor, but you dismiss it nonetheless. The human factor has a side That is sometimes less swayed by logic and more swayed by emotions. You will never reach the other side until you realize it, believe it, and then structure your argument to account for it.
tenants of their religion
I know you meant tenets but had a smile at the image evoked.
Lol speech to text! Hahaha I didn't proof that one.
Are you not making assumptions that everyone asking for religious exemptions has only the purest of intentions? I'm simply putting out information regarding religious exemptions that thought leaders of particular religions have stated (that vaccines, when in the interest of public health are ok), as well as thoughts by the scientific community (that HEK293 cells are no longer considered fetal tissue). What people do with that information is up to them. If you don't want to be vaccinated, that's on you (not directed at you but in general). If you'd like to be informed on the decision, here's some information. And if you (again, not you specifically) don't want to be informed or wish to follow false information or snake oil cures, again, that's not on me.
Again, I'm not refuting anyone's belief system or telling them they don't have the right to feel the way they feel. Unfortunately, we can't give people a lie-detector when they request religious exemptions to tell if they're being genuine or taking advantage of the system. If anything, I whole-heartedly sympathize with someone who, takes in all information, understands the evidence from both sides and makes an informed decision not to be vaccinated because of a moral stance. That's not my problem. My problem is with people who have found a loop-hole in the system and cry wolf, simply to get what they want.
I'm not dismissing any other side. Again, I sympathize with genuine people but I can't relate to the toddler mind-set of too many adults. The people who don't want to have the conversation, hear the other side, dismiss the data, dig their heels in and start shouting. There's no argument to structure because the only thing they want to hear is "yeah, you're absolutely right, you shouldn't get the vaccine." End of conversation. Anything else that is said beyond that is useless. That's why I won't have that argument with that type of person. I'll provide information to the vaccine hesitant - to the people looking for answers or more information.
I appreciate your comments and tenacity to have everyone understand all sides of an argument.
You literally dismissed another side.
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
No actually I'm not. You're reading my words not my message. I even said that there is undoubtedly lots of people who are using a religious exemption when they don't really believe. Those are actually my words.
Your message Is that there's no such thing as a religious exemption because only 0.000004% of the world's population believe in the two religions that you personally confirmed don't want you to take the vaccine.
My message is that religion is personal. Science science facts facts facts, you say that you understand the human element but then you dismiss it with science and facts.
We all know the science and facts are there. But then you threw out bad facts based on bad research. That destroys the science and fact guy. When you use false information and your whole argument is built on the facts, you lose because your credibility is gone.
And I'm on your side! But you lose.
Here in lies the problem with society. Technology has given us access to more information than ever before, and now we want 100% solutions.
Your message seems to say that you wouldn't mind the religious exemption if nobody took advantage of it for other than religious reasons. It's not up to you bro. You're going to have people who take advantage.
Time to put on your big boy panties and get over it. You do you like you said. Let them do them.
You're both right.
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
-- Winston Churchill
"LET'S GO FRANCIS" Peter
You sure did put a lot of effort into not giving a shít...