@silvermouse said:
well if the government is going to mess around with women I guess this reaction is to be expected and rational:
Jess Costa
· Marion, MA ·
I don't think you should ask a horse girl what her stand is on the overturn of Roe vs Wade.
We literally ✂️ the 🏀 ⚽️ off anything that doesn't impress us and we leave the mares alone.
I disagreed with this post that @silvermouse posted in merry memes. However, I didn't want to respond to it in that thread for fear it would pollute the intentions of the thread.
The government isn't "messing around with women," the Supreme Court overturned what they consider to be a poor ruling. Abortion laws need to be pursued as any other law would be, through the legislative process. The Supreme Court should not be legislating from the bench, and it is that mistake the current iteration of the court is trying to rectify. Abortion is not outlawed and America still has some of the most permissive abortion laws in the world, not that anyone should be proud of that.
From the moment of conception a human life separate from that of the mother is created, it has its own, unique DNA. I have never heard anyone say they want to restrict abortion in an effort to oppress women, but because it unjustly ends an innocent human life.
I know this can be a touchy subject, it certainly brings out my protective and passionate side. Just to be clear, I do not judge anyone here based upon only one view or trait. I enjoy the comments and company of all of you and I know you are all more than a singular view or trait.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Hobbes86 said:
I know this can be a touchy subject, it certainly brings out my protective and passionate side. Just to be clear, I do not judge anyone here based upon only one view or trait. I enjoy the comments and company of all of you and I know you are all more than a singular view or trait.
I believe people pick and choose feelings on "laws" based solely on your own position. People cry out for your local government to govern the people. but in Massachusetts People cry out "you shouldn't govern my gun laws the federal government should!" And then flip flop when it comes to Abortion laws. You mentioned protective.... I'm assuming towards the unborn child...... are you protective of the mother as well?
@Vision said:
You mentioned protective.... I'm assuming towards the unborn child...... are you protective of the mother as well?
In my comment above I was referencing feeling protective and passionate in regards to the unborn child, yes.
Make your point, Pete.
I would have to know this then first. Are you against ALL abortions? Even if the mother could die, the baby will be born with almost no quality of life, or any other medical reason?
You find out tomorrow that your daughter, niece, loved one could potentially die giving birth..... does that change anything?
You have your set of beliefs, that's admirable. Not everyone has the same belief system, equally admirable. Freedom to choose was given to us by god himself no?
“Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee” (Moses 3:17). God has told us through His prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. We may choose liberty and eternal life by following Jesus Christ. We are also free to choose captivity and death by following Satan.
Let people choose what is right for them, by them. Funny how the Bible gives us the freedom to choose but people want to take that away from others. Hypocritical no?
@Vision said:
I would have to know this then first. Are you against ALL abortions? Even if the mother could die, the baby will be born with almost no quality of life, or any other medical reason?
You find out tomorrow that your daughter, niece, loved one could potentially die giving birth..... does that change anything?
You have your set of beliefs, that's admirable. Not everyone has the same belief system, equally admirable. Freedom to choose was given to us by god himself no?
“Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee” (Moses 3:17). God has told us through His prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. We may choose liberty and eternal life by following Jesus Christ. We are also free to choose captivity and death by following Satan.
Let people choose what is right for them, by them. Funny how the Bible gives us the freedom to choose but people want to take that away from others. Hypocritical no?
Edit: Added Moses 3:17
I am against all abortions, though I understand the tough situation a mother may be in if she must choose between herself or her baby. The life of the mother and the unborn child are equally important, but I do think God would want the mother to act selflessly and give up her life for her child. I would not demonize a mother who chose herself though, just as I do not demonize women who get an abortion. This is an incredibly unlikely scenario, however, as modern advancements have virtually, if not completely, eradicated birth-caused deaths.
The quality of life question is always a concerning one for me. How do we know there will be low, or no, quality of life? Doctors make mistakes, people born into poverty make it big all the time, those born with disabilities are still capable of enjoyment. To say with certainty that a particular child will be born with a low quality of life seems dangerously arrogant to me.
What you quote is from the Book of Mormon, not a Christian Bible. According to Scripture, as well as his displayed nature in creation, my God is one that values life at all stages.
Psalm 127:3-5a
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them!”
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in your mother’s body I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart to serve me. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
Exodus 4:11
“The Lord said to him, ‘Who makes a man able to talk? Who makes him unable to hear or speak? Who makes him able to see? Who makes him blind? It is I, the Lord.'”
The reason I say creation shows my God's value of life is because I believe He created all things and set all things in motion. Nature is intricate, tightly woven, all things working to help and provide for other things. I just don't see why He would order the natural world in such a way if He didn't value life.
You are right in saying that God gave us the ability to choose. However, He never said our choices would be without consequences, whether they be provided by principalities of man or Himself.
I am not trying to convince you to believe as I do, but just trying to explain why I believe as I do.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Vision said:
You mentioned protective.... I'm assuming towards the unborn child...... are you protective of the mother as well?
In my comment above I was referencing feeling protective and passionate in regards to the unborn child, yes.
Make your point, Pete.
Good point. If the life starts at conception, then where's my tax break for having a kid from that point? Both of mine were conceived in Decembers. I shoulda got my three Gs....twice!
If gestation is 40 weeks, or 280 days, then any kid born before October 6th should get a tax break for the year before.
@VegasFrank said:
Good point. If the life starts at conception, then where's my tax break for having a kid from that point? Both of mine were conceived in Decembers. I shoulda got my three Gs....twice!
If gestation is 40 weeks, or 280 days, then any kid born before October 6th should get a tax break for the year before.
Perhaps you should write your representative about that.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
What you quote is from the Book of Mormon, not a Christian Bible. According to Scripture, as well as his displayed nature in creation, my God is one that values life at all stages.
Does mine not value life? Are you saying that the Mormon faith is wrong? Should I convert?
The Bible is not a book of Do's and Do Not's. It's a living guideline on how to lead your own life. Not to push beliefs on others. My church taught my compassion and understanding. They even once brought in a, wait for it, gay man, to talk to us about HIV (which he contracted). I went to the same church of god as you my guy.
@Vision said:
You mentioned protective.... I'm assuming towards the unborn child...... are you protective of the mother as well?
In my comment above I was referencing feeling protective and passionate in regards to the unborn child, yes.
Make your point, Pete.
Good point. If the life starts at conception, then where's my tax break for having a kid from that point? Both of mine were conceived in Decembers. I shoulda got my three Gs....twice!
If gestation is 40 weeks, or 280 days, then any kid born before October 6th should get a tax break for the year before.
Lots of dads owe 9 months of child support then huh? 🤔
@Vision said:
Does mine not value life? Are you saying that the Mormon faith is wrong? Should I convert?
The Bible is not a book of Do's and Do Not's. It's a living guideline on how to lead your own life. Not to push beliefs on others. My church taught my compassion and understanding. They even once brought in a, wait for it, gay man, to talk to us about HIV (which he contracted). I went to the same church of god as you my guy.
*Spelling
Yes, I believe the Mormon faith is wrong. There are very stark differences between Mormons and Christians, Pete. Especially as concerns the origins of Jesus Christ and God the Father. The differences are too great to consider the religions to be worshipping the same Lord.
The Christian Bible certainly is a book of Do's and Do Not's, but that isn't all it is. It is also a book of compassion, love, forgiveness, correction, and mercy. That is because it is a book inspired by my God and therefore reflects His nature.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Vision said:
So any belief system other then yours is wrong? Gotcha. Very neighborly.
Pot, meet kettle.
I believe Christianity is the only true religion. My main concern is not in being neighborly by the world's standards, but in being faithful to my God.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Vision said:
So any belief system other then yours is wrong? Gotcha. Very neighborly.
Pot, meet kettle.
I believe Christianity is the only true religion. My main concern is not in being neighborly by the world's standards, but in being faithful to my God.
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
@Vision said:
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
That is an interesting statement, as you have shown that our differences here matter to you as well. It is not unreasonable that it matters to us. We both see some level of importance here and want the best for the other. Yet we have both been cordial and refrained from trying to force beliefs on the other. I think this has been a positive exchange.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Vision said:
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
That is an interesting statement, as you have shown that our differences here matter to you as well. It is not unreasonable that it matters to us. We both see some level of importance here and want the best for the other. Yet we have both been cordial and refrained from trying to force beliefs on the other. I think this has been a positive exchange.
I agree. To be clear in not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs or change anyone's mind. Just asking the questions. To me, religion is a two way street. What you put in and what you get from it.
@Vision said:
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
That is an interesting statement, as you have shown that our differences here matter to you as well. It is not unreasonable that it matters to us. We both see some level of importance here and want the best for the other. Yet we have both been cordial and refrained from trying to force beliefs on the other. I think this has been a positive exchange.
I agree. To be clear in not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs or change anyone's mind. Just asking the questions. To me, religion is a two way street. What you put in and what you get from it.
Yeah, but you're wrong!!!
LOL. Just trying to keep the thread going on a boring Saturday afternoon.
@Vision said:
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
That is an interesting statement, as you have shown that our differences here matter to you as well. It is not unreasonable that it matters to us. We both see some level of importance here and want the best for the other. Yet we have both been cordial and refrained from trying to force beliefs on the other. I think this has been a positive exchange.
I agree. To be clear in not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs or change anyone's mind. Just asking the questions. To me, religion is a two way street. What you put in and what you get from it.
Yeah, but you're wrong!!!
LOL. Just trying to keep the thread going on a boring Saturday afternoon.
I like the infographic.... but we are talking about changing laws that say "You can't do X because my belief system says it's wrong "
Just curious, has anyone ever seen what percent of abortions were because of rape, incest or danger to the mother? Just curious. I saw a tweet recently that said if that's what it had been used for for the last fifty years instead of just birth control, we wouldn't be where we are today.
And for the record I'm not against a women's right to choose. I would never murder a baby myself but I've seen a lot of really shïtty parents and a lot of people that should have been aborted.
Comments
I disagreed with this post that @silvermouse posted in merry memes. However, I didn't want to respond to it in that thread for fear it would pollute the intentions of the thread.
The government isn't "messing around with women," the Supreme Court overturned what they consider to be a poor ruling. Abortion laws need to be pursued as any other law would be, through the legislative process. The Supreme Court should not be legislating from the bench, and it is that mistake the current iteration of the court is trying to rectify. Abortion is not outlawed and America still has some of the most permissive abortion laws in the world, not that anyone should be proud of that.
From the moment of conception a human life separate from that of the mother is created, it has its own, unique DNA. I have never heard anyone say they want to restrict abortion in an effort to oppress women, but because it unjustly ends an innocent human life.
I know this can be a touchy subject, it certainly brings out my protective and passionate side. Just to be clear, I do not judge anyone here based upon only one view or trait. I enjoy the comments and company of all of you and I know you are all more than a singular view or trait.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
I believe people pick and choose feelings on "laws" based solely on your own position. People cry out for your local government to govern the people. but in Massachusetts People cry out "you shouldn't govern my gun laws the federal government should!" And then flip flop when it comes to Abortion laws. You mentioned protective.... I'm assuming towards the unborn child...... are you protective of the mother as well?
In my comment above I was referencing feeling protective and passionate in regards to the unborn child, yes.
Make your point, Pete.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
I would have to know this then first. Are you against ALL abortions? Even if the mother could die, the baby will be born with almost no quality of life, or any other medical reason?
You find out tomorrow that your daughter, niece, loved one could potentially die giving birth..... does that change anything?
You have your set of beliefs, that's admirable. Not everyone has the same belief system, equally admirable. Freedom to choose was given to us by god himself no?
“Thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee” (Moses 3:17). God has told us through His prophets that we are free to choose between good and evil. We may choose liberty and eternal life by following Jesus Christ. We are also free to choose captivity and death by following Satan.
Let people choose what is right for them, by them. Funny how the Bible gives us the freedom to choose but people want to take that away from others. Hypocritical no?
Edit: Added Moses 3:17
I am against all abortions, though I understand the tough situation a mother may be in if she must choose between herself or her baby. The life of the mother and the unborn child are equally important, but I do think God would want the mother to act selflessly and give up her life for her child. I would not demonize a mother who chose herself though, just as I do not demonize women who get an abortion. This is an incredibly unlikely scenario, however, as modern advancements have virtually, if not completely, eradicated birth-caused deaths.
The quality of life question is always a concerning one for me. How do we know there will be low, or no, quality of life? Doctors make mistakes, people born into poverty make it big all the time, those born with disabilities are still capable of enjoyment. To say with certainty that a particular child will be born with a low quality of life seems dangerously arrogant to me.
What you quote is from the Book of Mormon, not a Christian Bible. According to Scripture, as well as his displayed nature in creation, my God is one that values life at all stages.
Psalm 127:3-5a
“Behold, children are a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior are the children of one’s youth. Blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them!”
Jeremiah 1:5
“Before I formed you in your mother’s body I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart to serve me. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”
Exodus 4:11
“The Lord said to him, ‘Who makes a man able to talk? Who makes him unable to hear or speak? Who makes him able to see? Who makes him blind? It is I, the Lord.'”
The reason I say creation shows my God's value of life is because I believe He created all things and set all things in motion. Nature is intricate, tightly woven, all things working to help and provide for other things. I just don't see why He would order the natural world in such a way if He didn't value life.
You are right in saying that God gave us the ability to choose. However, He never said our choices would be without consequences, whether they be provided by principalities of man or Himself.
I am not trying to convince you to believe as I do, but just trying to explain why I believe as I do.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Good point. If the life starts at conception, then where's my tax break for having a kid from that point? Both of mine were conceived in Decembers. I shoulda got my three Gs....twice!
If gestation is 40 weeks, or 280 days, then any kid born before October 6th should get a tax break for the year before.
Perhaps you should write your representative about that.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
The SCOTUS decision to pare back EPA is a huge win for for de-constructing the administrative state.
@Hobbes86
What you quote is from the Book of Mormon, not a Christian Bible. According to Scripture, as well as his displayed nature in creation, my God is one that values life at all stages.
Does mine not value life? Are you saying that the Mormon faith is wrong? Should I convert?
The Bible is not a book of Do's and Do Not's. It's a living guideline on how to lead your own life. Not to push beliefs on others. My church taught my compassion and understanding. They even once brought in a, wait for it, gay man, to talk to us about HIV (which he contracted). I went to the same church of god as you my guy.
*Spelling
Lots of dads owe 9 months of child support then huh? 🤔
Yes, I believe the Mormon faith is wrong. There are very stark differences between Mormons and Christians, Pete. Especially as concerns the origins of Jesus Christ and God the Father. The differences are too great to consider the religions to be worshipping the same Lord.
The Christian Bible certainly is a book of Do's and Do Not's, but that isn't all it is. It is also a book of compassion, love, forgiveness, correction, and mercy. That is because it is a book inspired by my God and therefore reflects His nature.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
@Hobbes86
So any belief system other then yours is wrong? Gotcha. Very neighborly.
Pot, meet kettle.
I believe Christianity is the only true religion. My main concern is not in being neighborly by the world's standards, but in being faithful to my God.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Truth is Truth. You can have many truths, but there can logically only be one Truth.
There are undoubtedly many true aspects of various religions. Nobody would contend that certain parts of Mormonism aren't true.
It bothers you that my interpretation of Christianity differs from yours
Double post
Triple now..... wtf
Edit. Found on iPhone if you shake the phone after posting it will auto fill last message
Calm down. 🙂
I know, You're a big dog and I'm on the list.
Let's eat, GrandMa. / Let's eat GrandMa. -- Punctuation saves lives
It'll be fine once the swelling goes down.
"The truth is what I say it is"
Shooter.
“Did he give his checks and balance speech? And you just looked at him and said **** you.”
MOW badge received.
That is an interesting statement, as you have shown that our differences here matter to you as well. It is not unreasonable that it matters to us. We both see some level of importance here and want the best for the other. Yet we have both been cordial and refrained from trying to force beliefs on the other. I think this has been a positive exchange.
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
I agree. To be clear in not trying to dissuade anyone from their beliefs or change anyone's mind. Just asking the questions. To me, religion is a two way street. What you put in and what you get from it.
Tried my guy. I think it's a product of my phone.
Yeah, but you're wrong!!!
LOL. Just trying to keep the thread going on a boring Saturday afternoon.
I’m atheist, and hate everyone equally. There ya go Peter that should help.
MOW badge received.
I like the infographic.... but we are talking about changing laws that say "You can't do X because my belief system says it's wrong "
Aren't all laws based in a belief system?
"Iron sharpens iron, and one man sharpens another." - Proverbs 27:17
Just curious, has anyone ever seen what percent of abortions were because of rape, incest or danger to the mother? Just curious. I saw a tweet recently that said if that's what it had been used for for the last fifty years instead of just birth control, we wouldn't be where we are today.
And for the record I'm not against a women's right to choose. I would never murder a baby myself but I've seen a lot of really shïtty parents and a lot of people that should have been aborted.