We lived in Alaska for a few years when I was a kid. Moose in the back yard. I spent nearly all my time in the woods after the spring break up. (Snow melt) If you saw a moose, look for the calf and make sure you're not in the middle. If it's rutting season, and it's a male moose, just leave. Only idiots ever get hurt, and I'm OK with that.
I think that the people you're talking about should be sterilized, not the Elk. A friend of mine in Nashville has a bumper sticker that says "Welcome to Nashville, y'all go home now" You need one of those for Oregon.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
These are the same people that try to take selfies with bears and end up mauled. I hate to see such over reaching intervention with native species. In Colorado we had the Estes Park elk. Basically 1000 pound breathing yard ornaments is how they were treated. And every year a few people would be charged or whatever because the tourists come and try to hand feed them. That's a wild animal, and if you ever forget it, they will remind you.
Heres "Butcher" at the cabins we were at then. Gotta be careful, one evening he snuck up on me around a big tree protecting his harem while I was smoke a gar. Came 5 feet from me around the tree, I had no idea he was even there. Fence is 4ft. tall for size comparison .
If you quote me do the @TX98Z28 in your text or I won't be notified of your quote, Thanks.
A man police say used a hatchet and knife to kill his former employer at a Belle Meade gym last week had unsuccessfully tried to purchase a firearm days before, according to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
A man police say used a hatchet and knife to kill his former employer at a Belle Meade gym last week had unsuccessfully tried to purchase a firearm days before, according to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
There will be two thought patterns on this. One will say background checks don't work right because the murder still happened, the other will say the background check was successful because it didn't happen with a gun and that we should start background checking hatchet purchases. So the two outcomes are more stringent checks and checks on more items. Either way, more laws will be sure to come down the line
Laws like locks, are for honest people. There are fewer and fewer honest people everyday, More and more freaks committing horrendous crimes. Where there is a will, there is a way. As one of our more astute members has said, it ain't the tool, it is the person holding the tool. Too many people holding tools. I don't know if it is the water, or it is in the air, But, we had better figure it out before it turns into a real ____________ (insert word) apocalypse. Last resort has become first resort, and it is getting worse all the time. I am starting to think that self preservation is soon to be the only law worth obeying.
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
wonder how long it will take for the working poor to reap the benefits of tax reform, lol.
"Richer than ever before... Since June 1, Amazon (AMZN) founder and CEO Jeff Bezos' net worth has grown over $5B and now totals $141.9B, according to the Forbes World's Billionaires list. It comes as Amazon's customer base sticks around despite the latest Prime price hike in exchange for a slew of services and perks. The company's stock has continued to increase in value, up 45% YTD."
You can't make this stuff up. Don't have to, it's happening.ed.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
We should just make the minimum wage 500 dollars an hour. That will fix everything! If that CEO didn't build that company up big enough to employ those workers, they wouldn't have jobs at all, so there is a huge disparity of individual value you are entirely leaving out of the picture. The rich being rich doesn't keep the poor, poor. Wealth isn't finite. Wanna be paid like a CEO? Go be one
I don't mind them making 12x what they were, as long as the people who MADE the money for them also get 12x more. The company will get along fine without that one individual, it will not get along at all without those who actually do the work.
"Thou shalt not bind the mouths of the kine who tread the grain." is a biblical injunction for a good reason. $500 / hr is a moronic idea, which I'm sure you knew when you sarcastically wrote that. I'm talking about a serious disparity in a realistic way. Minimum this, maximum that, nonsense. Ratio & Proportion? Sense.
It always strikes me as odd that those who have a 1: 300,000,000 chance of being that CEO defend them, rather than defending the 1: 1.05 chance of being middle class. The working man, not the CEO built this country, he/she should share the profits proportionally.
You are free to disagree. Because the working men who built this country made it that way, for you and me.
Post edited by Amos_Umwhat on
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Marxist? Not at all. I am a capitalist, to the core, my income depends on it. I have no problem with the CEO making 25 - 50 X what the worker makes, even more in rare cases. For instance those CEO's who truly are the courageous innovators taking risks, which doesn't describe most of them today. Once it goes much beyond that, no. Todays norm, 500:1? Outrageous. Unsustainable. Criminal.
I'm not a Plutocrat. I don't believe in feudalism or oligarchy. I'm old enough to remember what it was like when 40:1 was the ratio, and believe me, times were better. The country was blooming, not crumbling. I've lived in countries where the worker was respected as a member of the organization, rather than scorned as chattel, denied benefits, denied the right to sit down and have lunch while NOT having to man a phone or answer to customers, to take a couple breaks during the day.
You may not be experiencing it in your job, but in many jobs those things are going away, so that the CEO can give himself the money made by denying those things to the workers. That's real.
To defend that smacks of indoctrinated dogma. It says loud and clear "I'm an indoctrinated youth. I've been taught what to think, not how to think, and the clear light of reason hurts my eyes. I'm satisfied to remain in the dark, do not wake me."
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
You two are trying to blame isms. Could it be that the real diff between now and back then is not rooted in any ism but, like so many present ills, rooted in character?
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” ... Tolstoy
“It has been a source of great pain to me to have met with so many among [my] opponents who had not the liberality to distinguish between political and social opposition; who transferred at once to the person, the hatred they bore to his political opinions.” —Thomas Jefferson (1808)
One week of every year is designated National Brotherhood Week. This is just one of many such weeks honoring various worthy causes. One of my favorites is National Make-fun-of-the-handicapped Week which Frank Fontaine and Jerry Lewis are in charge of as you know. During National Brotherhood Week various special events are arranged to drive home the message of brotherhood. This year, for example, on the first day of the week Malcolm X was killed which gives you an idea of how effective the whole thing is. I'm sure we all agree that we ought to love one another and I know there are people in the world that do not love their fellow human beings and I hate people like that. Here's a song about National Brotherhood Week.
Oh, the white folks hate the black folks,
And the black folks hate the white folks.
To hate all but the right folks
Is an old established rule.
But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
Lena Horne and Sheriff Clarke are dancing cheek to cheek.
It's fun to eulogize
The people you despise,
As long as you don't let 'em in your school.
Oh, the poor folks hate the rich folks,
And the rich folks hate the poor folks.
All of my folks hate all of your folks,
It's American as apple pie.
But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
New Yorkers love the Puerto Ricans 'cause it's very chic.
Step up and shake the hand
Of someone you can't stand.
You can tolerate him if you try.
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews.
But during National Brotherhood Week, National Brotherhood Week,
It's National Everyone-smile-at-one-another-hood Week.
You two are trying to blame isms. Could it be that the real diff between now and back then is not rooted in any ism but, like so many present ills, rooted in character?
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” ... Tolstoy
It is exactly a problem of character, that was the point of my post. I speak here not as a disinterested party, but as an investor, 98% invested in the market, it's now my living. My objections are not to the rare innovator who builds a new idea, but rather to the ones who are putting me, my money, and my future at risk through idiotic ideas like derivatives, or by destroying American companies and jobs by outsourcing schemes. Also, those who are now running, but did not invent things like insurance, health care, etc. When asked why he paid his workers so well, Henry Ford answered that he wanted them to be able to buy his product. That's a position I can back, and it's being lost.
This discussion, to me, seems analogous to another position I put forth a few years back. Myself, my father, my son, most of my uncles all served in the military in one capacity or another, several spent some times in war zones. I did not, but I was there and available. So, it irks me when those who've never served say things like "We should kick their azz." We? Put your name on the line. Likewise, this is a subject where it's my skin in the game.
When @Ca@Captain_Call responded to my post with ideas put forth by right wing talking heads, I tried to explain my position with a distillation of the ideas put forth by men like James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. His response to those men's ideas is "Marxism". That's what todays youth are taught.
Most of us have seen the movie Pretty Woman. In it, Richard Gere plays a part that represents the type of CEO I'm objecting to. He's a destroyer, concerned only with short term gains that will eventually lead to nothing. I prefer the part of the Ralph Bellamy character, he wants to build things, make something. I can get behind that character, a man of substance and character.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Today's youths are taught that Marxism is a good thing and that the founding fathers were disconnected old white slave owners. Your points about the CEO making too much while the workers doing everything dont make enough SOUNDS Marxist. Excuse me if i connected dots that weren't there. You're the first person I've heard make these complaints and not advocate a socialist overthrow of the system.
Greed poisons both economic systems. In an ideal world people care about each other and the economic construct takes that into account. In the real world, not so much.
I want to jump in this so bad. But my high school education is not enough and going to the library to stuff my head is long past. I would however like to say I don't care what a CEO makes as long as he/she/other keep the company solvent and the profits keep going up. Of course they are overpaid and their bonuses are obscene. But as long as my paycheck keeps growing and it gets to me on time, who cares? I guess I gave up caring when I figured out it is one of those things I have no power over and can do nothing about. But if the "bosses" get caught, and a lot have, lining their own pockets they should be made an example of. I am more worried about the joke of an educational system we now have and the arrogance of our politicians, who think votes are the holy grail and the condition of our country is a far removed second thought. Of course, as usual, I am probably not even in the ballpark as far as this conversation goes.
Today's youths are taught that Marxism is a good thing and that the founding fathers were disconnected old white slave owners. Your points about the CEO making too much while the workers doing everything dont make enough SOUNDS Marxist. Excuse me if i connected dots that weren't there. You're the first person I've heard make these complaints and not advocate a socialist overthrow of the system.
Thank you for your thoughtful response. You make some valid, cogent points.
I tend to find that my views rarely fall neatly into one of the extreme categories that we are all taught to focus on. It is common today. For instance, when I say I believe in gun ownership, many out there assume that I'm some sort of racist vigilante reactionary. It baffles me, at times, then I think about the garbage they've been force-fed all their lives. Similarly, when I advocate for an honest days pay for an honest days work, and that all men are created equal, or that government has an obligation to protect the average citizen from the ravages of the uber-riche, some jump to the conclusion that I'm some sort of communist. It's simply not so.
Personally, I'm for about a 75/25 mix of capitalism / social responsibility. Marxism doesn't work, neither does unfettered might-makes-right capitalism. Too often we fall into stupid traps. For example, why should a High School student working at McDonalds after school need to make "a living wage"? Really? No, he/she needs some pocket money, that's all. Perhaps the manager needs a living wage, but not the part time burger flipper. Yet, there are politicians out there making a living peddling this kind of nonsense.
I guess I advocate the middle way. I find that the extremes lead to falling off the edge.
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I don't have a problem with a CEO making alot of money on a private company doing well.
I do have a problem with a private company/corporation that isn't doing well and has govt bail out and then the CEO gets a $5 mil bonus.
Or insurance companies that are supposedly hurting, looking to the feds to assist them and raising insurance premiums on the pretense that they are not making a profit, yet their financial info shows they netted a $180 million profit for the quarter.
In Fumo Pax Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
You can't make this stuff up. Don't have to, it's happening.ed."
According to the Dept of labor, the average salary in 1975 was $13,799. I thought it looked a little high for what I remember people earning in the '70's.
I'm not sure who said it first, but "I've never been hired by a poor person in any career positions."
In my mind, at the core of the discussion is who gets to decide who makes how much? The CEO gets to set the workers' wages, but who gets to decide his? The board of directors, I suppose. Should the government have a say in capping his salary, based on profits and the overall worth of the company? I'd say not. Their salaries (I'm guessing) are market-driven; IOW, if he does a good job of keeping the company profitable, the board thinks 'we better pay him $X-million because if we don't he'll get lured away by a board that will.' I don't like it, but can't see a good way to control it.
The part that sucks is too much of the companies profits are going to the upper management and not enough to the workers. People will argue that the workers should get an education and move into management, but some aren't cut out for that and some just don't want to deal with the BS of a management job.
And here's where a distinction has to be made on @Captain_Call's point about wealth; in an overall sense wealth is indeed not finite, but in the scope of one company it is. When a CEO is paid an exorbitant amount, it does leave less for the person on the factory floor. And when laws are written to better serve the 1% so their wealth can grow more easily than my CD's and mutual funds, that skews things against the average worker too.
@silvermouse hit the nail on the head; it's greed, plain and simple. Capitalism is great in principle, but when you plug in the greed of mankind it gets tarnished.
I also have a strong dislike for class warfare, and the tools that stoke those fires for their own purposes.
You can't make this stuff up. Don't have to, it's happening.ed."
According to the Dept of labor, the average salary in 1975 was $13,799. I thought it looked a little high for what I remember people earning in the '70's.
I'm not sure who said it first, but "I've never been hired by a poor person in any career positions."
You are correct, I should have added that the figures had been adjusted to all reflect 2016 dollar values.
I notice that you, also, seem to mistakenly believe that I am attacking the rich, no, just the unprincipled greedy.
Post edited by Amos_Umwhat on
WARNING: The above post may contain thoughts or ideas known to the State of Caliphornia to cause seething rage, confusion, distemper, nausea, perspiration, sphincter release, or cranial implosion to persons who implicitly trust only one news source, or find themselves at either the left or right political extreme. Proceed at your own risk.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
Comments
I think that the people you're talking about should be sterilized, not the Elk. A friend of mine in Nashville has a bumper sticker that says "Welcome to Nashville, y'all go home now" You need one of those for Oregon.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-iq-scores-1970s.html
Researchers find IQ scores dropping since the 1970s
....... William Jefferson Clinton
* italics mine
Bugling wild Bull Elk very dangerous during ruttin season LOL
Heres "Butcher" at the cabins we were at then. Gotta be careful, one evening he snuck up on me around a big tree protecting his harem while I was smoke a gar. Came 5 feet from me around the tree, I had no idea he was even there. Fence is 4ft. tall for size comparison .
does that mean background checks work, or does that mean background checks don't work?
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/crime/2018/06/12/nashville-belle-meade-hatchet-suspect-had-tried-buy-gun-days-before-killing/694981002/
A man police say used a hatchet and knife to kill his former employer at a Belle Meade gym last week had unsuccessfully tried to purchase a firearm days before, according to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation.
As one of our more astute members has said, it ain't the tool, it is the person holding the tool. Too many people holding tools.
I don't know if it is the water, or it is in the air, But, we had better figure it out before it turns into a real ____________ (insert word) apocalypse. Last resort has become first resort, and it is getting worse all the time.
I am starting to think that self preservation is soon to be the only law worth obeying.
"Richer than ever before... Since June 1, Amazon (AMZN) founder and CEO Jeff Bezos' net worth has grown over $5B and now totals $141.9B, according to the Forbes World's Billionaires list. It comes as Amazon's customer base sticks around despite the latest Prime price hike in exchange for a slew of services and perks. The company's stock has continued to increase in value, up 45% YTD."
Can't say for sure, but I'd bet them rich basterds had those kind of increases before tax reform.
CEO pay: $1,200,000
Worker pay: $45,000
2016:
CEO pay: $15,000,000
Worker pay $53,000
Source: Steven Brill, Time, May 28, 2018
No one sees the discrepancy? Really?
You can't make this stuff up. Don't have to, it's happening.ed.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
"Thou shalt not bind the mouths of the kine who tread the grain." is a biblical injunction for a good reason. $500 / hr is a moronic idea, which I'm sure you knew when you sarcastically wrote that. I'm talking about a serious disparity in a realistic way. Minimum this, maximum that, nonsense. Ratio & Proportion? Sense.
It always strikes me as odd that those who have a 1: 300,000,000 chance of being that CEO defend them, rather than defending the 1: 1.05 chance of being middle class. The working man, not the CEO built this country, he/she should share the profits proportionally.
You are free to disagree. Because the working men who built this country made it that way, for you and me.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I'm not a Plutocrat. I don't believe in feudalism or oligarchy. I'm old enough to remember what it was like when 40:1 was the ratio, and believe me, times were better. The country was blooming, not crumbling. I've lived in countries where the worker was respected as a member of the organization, rather than scorned as chattel, denied benefits, denied the right to sit down and have lunch while NOT having to man a phone or answer to customers, to take a couple breaks during the day.
You may not be experiencing it in your job, but in many jobs those things are going away, so that the CEO can give himself the money made by denying those things to the workers. That's real.
To defend that smacks of indoctrinated dogma. It says loud and clear "I'm an indoctrinated youth. I've been taught what to think, not how to think, and the clear light of reason hurts my eyes. I'm satisfied to remain in the dark, do not wake me."
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
“Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.” ... Tolstoy
This discussion, to me, seems analogous to another position I put forth a few years back. Myself, my father, my son, most of my uncles all served in the military in one capacity or another, several spent some times in war zones. I did not, but I was there and available. So, it irks me when those who've never served say things like "We should kick their azz." We? Put your name on the line. Likewise, this is a subject where it's my skin in the game.
When @Ca@Captain_Call responded to my post with ideas put forth by right wing talking heads, I tried to explain my position with a distillation of the ideas put forth by men like James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, and Thomas Paine. His response to those men's ideas is "Marxism". That's what todays youth are taught.
Most of us have seen the movie Pretty Woman. In it, Richard Gere plays a part that represents the type of CEO I'm objecting to. He's a destroyer, concerned only with short term gains that will eventually lead to nothing. I prefer the part of the Ralph Bellamy character, he wants to build things, make something. I can get behind that character, a man of substance and character.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I would however like to say I don't care what a CEO makes as long as he/she/other keep the company solvent and the profits keep going up. Of course they are overpaid and their bonuses are obscene. But as long as my paycheck keeps growing and it gets to me on time, who cares?
I guess I gave up caring when I figured out it is one of those things I have no power over and can do nothing about. But if the "bosses" get caught, and a lot have, lining their own pockets they should be made an example of.
I am more worried about the joke of an educational system we now have and the arrogance of our politicians, who think votes are the holy grail and the condition of our country is a far removed second thought.
Of course, as usual, I am probably not even in the ballpark as far as this conversation goes.
I tend to find that my views rarely fall neatly into one of the extreme categories that we are all taught to focus on. It is common today. For instance, when I say I believe in gun ownership, many out there assume that I'm some sort of racist vigilante reactionary. It baffles me, at times, then I think about the garbage they've been force-fed all their lives. Similarly, when I advocate for an honest days pay for an honest days work, and that all men are created equal, or that government has an obligation to protect the average citizen from the ravages of the uber-riche, some jump to the conclusion that I'm some sort of communist. It's simply not so.
Personally, I'm for about a 75/25 mix of capitalism / social responsibility. Marxism doesn't work, neither does unfettered might-makes-right capitalism. Too often we fall into stupid traps. For example, why should a High School student working at McDonalds after school need to make "a living wage"? Really? No, he/she needs some pocket money, that's all. Perhaps the manager needs a living wage, but not the part time burger flipper. Yet, there are politicians out there making a living peddling this kind of nonsense.
I guess I advocate the middle way. I find that the extremes lead to falling off the edge.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain
I do have a problem with a private company/corporation that isn't doing well and has govt bail out and then the CEO gets a $5 mil bonus.
Or insurance companies that are supposedly hurting, looking to the feds to assist them and raising insurance premiums on the pretense that they are not making a profit, yet their financial info shows they netted a $180 million profit for the quarter.
Money can't buy happiness, but it can buy cigars and that's close enough.
CEO pay: $1,200,000
Worker pay: $45,000
2016:
CEO pay: $15,000,000
Worker pay $53,000
Source: Steven Brill, Time, May 28, 2018
No one sees the discrepancy? Really?
The part that sucks is too much of the companies profits are going to the upper management and not enough to the workers. People will argue that the workers should get an education and move into management, but some aren't cut out for that and some just don't want to deal with the BS of a management job.
And here's where a distinction has to be made on @Captain_Call's point about wealth; in an overall sense wealth is indeed not finite, but in the scope of one company it is. When a CEO is paid an exorbitant amount, it does leave less for the person on the factory floor. And when laws are written to better serve the 1% so their wealth can grow more easily than my CD's and mutual funds, that skews things against the average worker too.
@silvermouse hit the nail on the head; it's greed, plain and simple. Capitalism is great in principle, but when you plug in the greed of mankind it gets tarnished.
I also have a strong dislike for class warfare, and the tools that stoke those fires for their own purposes.
I notice that you, also, seem to mistakenly believe that I am attacking the rich, no, just the unprincipled greedy.
"If you do not read the newspapers you're uninformed. If you do read the newspapers, you're misinformed." -- Mark Twain